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07-24-2013, 12:31 PM
  #1
Jtabo
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Norris History Since 04-05 Lockout

Originally started this because of points being made in the Phaneuf thread, that I knew were false. After all the work I put in, I thought it deserved its own thread, as it does more than just prove points about Phaneuf. Anyway, I took a look at all the Norris voting results since the 04-05 lockout (8 seasons).

Here is a basic summary:

Name(05-06)(06-07)(07-08)(08-09)(09-10)(10-11)(11-12)(12-13)
Beauchemin       4
Bieksa 24    18 
Blake12       
Boucher 12      
Bouwmeester 11 14    
Boyle154 561417 
Burns  12     
Byfuglien     71515
Campbell 10516 167 
Carle     10  
Carney 19      
Chara420318335
Corvo  17     
Cullimore  17     
Del Zotto      12 
Doughty    310 9
Edler      15 
Ehrhoff    98  
Ekman-Larsson       7
Girardi      622
Gonchar1574 14   
Green  722  17
Hamhuis     161016
Jovanovski  15 18   
Kaberle131717     
Karlsson      118
Keith  11619136
Komisarek  17     
Kronwall       10
Letang     693
Lidstrom1113415 
Liles  17     
Lydman     13  
Markov 2467   13
Martin       23
McCabe924      
Mcdonagh      11 
Meszaros  17  16  
Mitchell      18 
Myers    1516  
Niedermayer221010    
Orpik       18
Phaneuf8621216  11
Phillips 18  18   
Pietrangelo      414
Pitkanen15       
Preissing 15      
Pronger738 510  
Rafalski11149912   
Redden5 16     
Regehr1421      
Schneider62114     
Schultz    16   
Seabrook    13   
Seidenberg       21
Shattenkirk      18 
Souray 8 13   23
Staal     16  
Streit  13810   
Subban       1
Suter    111582
Timonen 51715   20
Visnovsky1016   4 23
Volchenkov 21  18   
Weber  1747228
Whitney 13      
Wideman   11    
Yandle     51312
Zhitnik 24      
Zidlicky15       
Zubov3917     

As you can see its broken down by year and shows their ranking for that given year. If they received no Norris votes in a given year, it is blank. In total, 71 defenceman have received at least one vote in the past 8 season.

Below I did another summarry table. Same idea, however, this time instead of their rank in the voting, it shows their points received from the voting:

Name(05-06)(06-07)(07-08)(08-09)(09-10)(10-11)(11-12)(12-13)
Beauchemin       290
Bieksa 1    1 
Blake6       
Boucher 27      
Bouwmeester 32 9    
Boyle1219 17311632 
Burns  14     
Byfuglien     33413
Campbell 423333 158 
Carle     8  
Carney 5      
Chara4304486103488688950289
Corvo  1     
Cullimore  1     
Del Zotto      5 
Doughty    6628 43
Edler      4 
Ehrhoff    2128  
Ekman-Larsson       79
Girardi      702
Gonchar185370 8   
Green  84982831  6
Hamhuis     1219
Jovanovski  8 1   
Kaberle5121     
Karlsson      10695
Keith  19951096244281
Komisarek  1     
Kronwall       33
Letang     14440914
Lidstrom115212171313733303736132 
Liles  1     
Lydman     3  
Markov 115695   23
Martin       1
McCabe441      
Mcdonagh      13 
Meszaros  1  1  
Mitchell      1 
Myers    61  
Niedermayer81710242227    
Orpik       5
Phaneuf6198561173  28
Phillips 7  1   
Pietrangelo      38123
Pitkanen1       
Preissing 15      
Pronger9760856 1688  
Rafalski718252712   
Redden115 3     
Regehr23      
Schneider11139     
Schultz    3   
Seabrook    10   
Seidenberg       4
Shattenkirk      1 
Souray 67 16   1
Staal     1  
Streit  112915   
Subban       1266
Suter    132571230
Timonen 14418   5
Visnovsky3912   573 1
Volchenkov 3  1   
Weber  118696727105749
Whitney 20      
Wideman   24    
Yandle     312427
Zhitnik 1      
Zidlicky1       
Zubov464421     

Using these summarys I created two seperate rankings. The first is the number of times they were ranked in the Norris voting. The maximum is 8 because I only covered 8 seasons.

RankNameTimes Being Ranked
1Chara8
2Lidstrom7
3Weber6
4Keith6
5Phaneuf6
6Boyle6
7Pronger5
8Campbell5
9Rafalski5
10Green4
11Niedermayer4
12Suter4
13Visnovsky4
14Gonchar4
15Markov4
16Timonen4
17Letang3
18Doughty3
19Zubov3
20Yandle3
21Schneider3
22Souray3
23Streit3
24Byfuglien3
25Hamhuis3
26Kaberle3
27Karlsson2
28Pietrangelo2
29Redden2
30Girardi2
31Ehrhoff2
32McCabe2
33Bouwmeester2
34Jovanovski2
35Phillips2
36Myers2
37Regehr2
38Volchenkov2
39Meszaros2
40Bieksa2
41Subban1
42Beauchemin1
43Ekman-Larsson1
44Kronwall1
45Boucher1
46Wideman1
47Whitney1
48Preissing1
49Burns1
50Mcdonagh1
51Seabrook1
52Carle1
53Blake1
54Del Zotto1
55Orpik1
56Carney1
57Edler1
58Seidenberg1
59Lydman1
60Schultz1
61Pitkanen1
62Zidlicky1
63Staal1
64Corvo1
65Cullimore1
66Komisarek1
67Liles1
68Mitchell1
69Shattenkirk1
70Martin1
71Zhitnik1

The second ranking is by total number of points from Norris voting:

RankNameTotal Points
1Lidstrom5586
2Chara3969
3Weber2116
4Green1903
5Niedermayer1890
6Keith1519
7Suter1302
8Subban1266
9Letang1098
10Karlsson1074
11Pronger937
12Phaneuf768
13Doughty713
14Visnovsky625
15Boyle514
16Zubov507
17Gonchar464
18Campbell437
19Pietrangelo404
20Yandle343
21Beauchemin290
22Markov275
23Timonen158
24Schneider123
25Redden118
26Rafalski89
27Souray84
28Ekman-Larsson79
29Girardi72
30Streit55
31Byfuglien50
32Ehrhoff49
33McCabe45
34Bouwmeester41
35Kronwall33
36Hamhuis31
37Boucher27
38Wideman24
39Whitney20
40Kaberle18
41Preissing15
42Burns14
43Mcdonagh13
44Seabrook10
45Jovanovski9
46Phillips8
47Carle8
48Myers7
49Blake6
50Regehr5
51Del Zotto5
52Orpik5
53Carney5
54Volchenkov4
55Edler4
56Seidenberg4
57Lydman3
58Schultz3
59Meszaros2
60Bieksa2
61Pitkanen1
62Zidlicky1
63Staal1
64Corvo1
65Cullimore1
66Komisarek1
67Liles1
68Mitchell1
69Shattenkirk1
70Martin1
71Zhitnik1

To prove my point about Phaneuf, you can see among active dmen, he ranks 9th in total points over the last 8 years, and 4th in number of times being ranked.

However, you can also see some interesting trends among other D. For example, Chara, Lidstrom and Weber are top 3 in both lists. This is why I really only like to consider that company as "elite".

Feel free to discuss, just thought I would share.

Edit: As per requested I decided to add # of seasons played during those 8 years to add more depth to the information. To do so I brought in the amount of GP for each player in each of the seasons. I only counted it as a season if they had played within 15 games of a full season (67 or more for 82, 33 or more for 48). This was to eliminate injuries or rookie trials. Once I had this I re-did both rankings but with the # of seasons played involved.

For the first one, I took the amount of seasons they recieved Norris votes, divided by the total number of seasons they played, and sorted by percentage:

RankNameTimes Being Ranked# of SeasonsPercentage
1Chara88100%
2Lidstrom77100%
3Rafalski55100%
4Zubov33100%
5Weber6786%
6Phaneuf6786%
7Boyle6786%
8Pronger5683%
9Green4580%
10Niedermayer4580%
11Markov4580%
12Keith6875%
13Schneider3475%
14Souray3475%
15Karlsson2367%
16Pietrangelo2367%
17Jovanovski2367%
18Myers2367%
19Campbell5863%
20Letang3560%
21Doughty3560%
22Yandle3560%
23Visnovsky4757%
24Gonchar4757%
25Suter4850%
26Timonen4850%
27Streit3650%
28Byfuglien3650%
29Kaberle3650%
30Redden2450%
31Bieksa2450%
32Boucher1250%
33Ekman-Larsson1250%
34Mcdonagh1250%
35Carney1250%
36Cullimore1250%
37Zhitnik1250%
38McCabe2540%
39Meszaros2540%
40Hamhuis3838%
41Girardi2633%
42Ehrhoff2633%
43Subban1333%
44Preissing1333%
45Del Zotto1333%
46Schultz1333%
47Shattenkirk1333%
48Volchenkov2729%
49Bouwmeester2825%
50Phillips2825%
51Regehr2825%
52Staal1425%
53Komisarek1425%
54Mitchell1425%
55Kronwall1520%
56Whitney1520%
57Burns1520%
58Blake1520%
59Edler1520%
60Seidenberg1520%
61Pitkanen1520%
62Liles1520%
63Carle1617%
64Orpik1617%
65Zidlicky1617%
66Beauchemin1714%
67Corvo1714%
68Martin1714%
69Wideman1813%
70Seabrook1813%
71Lydman1813%

For the second table, I took the total amount of points from Norris votes, and divided by # of seasons to get points/season:

RankNameTotal Points# of SeasonsPts/Season
1Lidstrom55867798
2Chara39698496.1
3Subban12663422
4Green19035380.6
5Niedermayer18905378
6Karlsson10743358
7Weber21167302.2
8Letang10985219.6
9Keith15198189.8
10Zubov5073169
11Suter13028162.7
12Pronger9376156.1
13Doughty7135142.6
14Pietrangelo4043134.6
15Phaneuf7687109.7
16Visnovsky625789.2
17Boyle514773.4
18Yandle343568.6
19Gonchar464766.2
20Markov275555
21Campbell437854.6
22Beauchemin290741.4
23Ekman-Larsson79239.5
24Schneider123430.7
25Redden118429.5
26Souray84421
27Timonen158819.7
28Rafalski89517.8
29Boucher27213.5
30Girardi72612
31Streit5569.1
32McCabe4559
33Byfuglien5068.3
34Ehrhoff4968.1
35Kronwall3356.6
36Mcdonagh1326.5
37Bouwmeester4185.1
38Preissing1535
39Whitney2054
40Hamhuis3183.8
41Wideman2483
42Kaberle1863
43Jovanovski933
44Burns1452.8
45Carney522.5
46Myers732.3
47Del Zotto531.6
48Carle861.3
49Seabrook1081.2
50Blake651.2
51Phillips881
52Schultz331
53Orpik560.8
54Edler450.8
55Seidenberg450.8
56Regehr580.6
57Volchenkov470.5
58Bieksa240.5
59Cullimore120.5
60Zhitnik120.5
61Meszaros250.4
62Lydman380.3
63Shattenkirk130.3
64Staal140.2
65Komisarek140.2
66Mitchell140.2
67Pitkanen150.2
68Liles150.2
69Zidlicky160.1
70Corvo170.1
71Martin170.1

The 1st table more accurately shows consistency of being a top 15 dman, whereas the second table seems to show more high end talent. However, keep in mind, one good season, in a young players career, can really skew a result. For example, Subban 1266 points for a 48 game campaign in only his third season. This is what puts him in the top 3.

Because of this I decided to re-do that second table, but only include players with 6 or more seasons played in the 8-year span, because over time, numbers tend to generally even out:

RankNameTotal Points# of SeasonsPts/Season
1Lidstrom55867798
2Chara39698496.1
3Weber21167302.2
4Keith15198189.8
5Suter13028162.7
6Pronger9376156.1
7Phaneuf7687109.7
8Visnovsky625789.2
9Boyle514773.4
10Gonchar464766.2
11Campbell437854.6
12Beauchemin290741.4
13Timonen158819.7
14Girardi72612
15Streit5569.1
16Byfuglien5068.3
17Ehrhoff4968.1
18Bouwmeester4185.1
19Hamhuis3183.8
20Wideman2483
21Kaberle1863
22Carle861.3
23Seabrook1081.2
24Phillips881
25Orpik560.8
26Regehr580.6
27Volchenkov470.5
28Lydman380.3
29Zidlicky160.1
30Corvo170.1
31Martin170.1

Once again, the results are pretty interesting. Feel free to continue to discuss and thank you for your kind words. I think I may add another table for offensive production, we'll see.


Last edited by Jtabo: 07-25-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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Old
07-24-2013, 12:37 PM
  #2
DoubleDose86
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People can always twist #'s to prove their point.

I like how you did 8 seasons, number of votes, rankings, just the fact you covered so much.

good job, I like it.

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07-24-2013, 12:43 PM
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naturally there are some young guys who haven't played 8 years on that list. But it does prove that for Phaneuf's age, he is among the elite.

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07-24-2013, 12:51 PM
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Jtabo
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I thought about adding in games played in those 8 seasons, and then doing a point/gp type thing, but with 71 guys I just didnt feel like it. Might do so later though. I have also kept all the history of the awards, so I may add on to it as the years go on.

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07-24-2013, 12:58 PM
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Norris voting tends to be biased towards offensive Dmen. A lot of people disagreed with Subban winning it and to a lesser extent Karlsson, people didn't think Green deserved that many votes, etc.

The year Phaneuf got his huge amounts of votes was when he was putting up ridiculous offence. And development/careers are not linear. Some guys start off on fire, and then die down a little bit. Phaneuf only has 31 points in Norris voting over the past four seasons combined. If he was trending upwards, that would be a better sign than him starting off strong, potentially getting a ton of votes due to his high draft status / early offence, and then tapering off for almost half a decade.

Phaneuf is a good defenceman. But I don't think he'll ever get nominated for the Norris again. The offence seems to have declined, and the defensive game while decent isn't worthy of Norris discussions.

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07-24-2013, 01:03 PM
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Jtabo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Norris voting tends to be biased towards offensive Dmen. A lot of people disagreed with Subban winning it and to a lesser extent Karlsson, people didn't think Green deserved that many votes, etc.

The year Phaneuf got his huge amounts of votes was when he was putting up ridiculous offence. And development/careers are not linear. Some guys start off on fire, and then die down a little bit. Phaneuf only has 31 points in Norris voting over the past four seasons combined. If he was trending upwards, that would be a better sign than him starting off strong, potentially getting a ton of votes due to his high draft status / early offence, and then tapering off for almost half a decade.

Phaneuf is a good defenceman. But I don't think he'll ever get nominated for the Norris again. The offence seems to have declined, and the defensive game while decent isn't worthy of Norris discussions.
Many said the same for Suter prior to last season. Give Phaneuf a decent partner, and a goalie who bails him out (Josi/Rinne or Brodin/Backstrom vs Holzer/Kostka/Reimer) and he can get back there I think. Individually, there wasnt much difference between Suter and Phaneuf this past year, Suter was just in a better situation in a smaller market.

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07-24-2013, 01:05 PM
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Jtabo
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Also keep in mind, the only two season Phaneuf didn't recieve Norris votes were when he missed 20 games, and his first full season as a Leaf. I think you can see an upward trend for him in his time as a Leaf, which is promising.

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07-24-2013, 01:06 PM
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Wow, nice work on the thread... Phaneuf really is underrated as many call him a #2/#3 D but it's pretty obvious he's a #1 D if you just watch him play a few games

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07-24-2013, 01:50 PM
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great work.

I would recommend one additional ranking at the end - points per season.

that should be fairer to the defensemen who haven't been in the league all 8 years.

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07-24-2013, 02:33 PM
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I read the whole thing and when I say this please know I am a phaneuf fan, and would be saddened if he left.

While some merit can be taken into his Norris voting, awards voting has shown to be a joke the last few years, and I'm weary about using it to defend player.

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07-24-2013, 03:08 PM
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The numbers are misleading.

For example,

PK isn't in the league for 8 seasons. You will have to normalize or re-weight for comparisons. It is like comparing apple to orange.

We need to compare apple to apple. Now that the stats lecture is over.

Dion is an alright D not worth the salary he is making. On a good D-core Dion is not #1D and not on 1st PP unit. People have to stop praising Dion like he is a stud D. He is not!

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07-24-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post
The numbers are misleading.

For example,

PK isn't in the league for 8 seasons. You will have to normalize or re-weight for comparisons. It is like comparing apple to orange.

We need to compare apple to apple. Now that the stats lecture is over.

Dion is an alright D not worth the salary he is making. On a good D-core Dion is not #1D and not on 1st PP unit. People have to stop praising Dion like he is a stud D. He is not!
Based on what? Simply your opinion? Name me a list of number 1 dman in this league and explain why Dion shouldn't be on said list.

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07-24-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post

Dion is an alright D not worth the salary he is making. On a good D-core Dion is not #1D and not on 1st PP unit. People have to stop praising Dion like he is a stud D. He is not!
yea maybe if the d-core is Weber+Chara+Karlsson or something like that, but that would never happen.


Dion is a #2D-man to very few people, vast majority of teams he's a #1, he's a top 15 d-man in the league at LEAST, I'd argue top 10.

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07-24-2013, 03:47 PM
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Joey Hoser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post
On a good D-core Dion is not #1D and not on 1st PP unit.
I think you need to browse other teams' rosters have a look at who they have on the point on the PP.

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07-24-2013, 04:05 PM
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Phaneuf isnt a 1st line dman in the league? You guys can name.. 59 other dmen better than Phaneuf? HA. You cant even name 15.

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07-24-2013, 04:43 PM
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416Leafer
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Quote:
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Many said the same for Suter prior to last season. Give Phaneuf a decent partner, and a goalie who bails him out (Josi/Rinne or Brodin/Backstrom vs Holzer/Kostka/Reimer) and he can get back there I think. Individually, there wasnt much difference between Suter and Phaneuf this past year, Suter was just in a better situation in a smaller market.
Wat? Suter specifically is known for his defensive abilities moreso than his offensive ones. Its only the last few years that he's become pretty good offensively.

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07-24-2013, 04:56 PM
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Gotta say I was surprised how high he was ranked in those different categories.

Good job Dion!!! Sign a new contract soon please.

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07-24-2013, 05:19 PM
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Jtabo
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Quote:
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great work.

I would recommend one additional ranking at the end - points per season.

that should be fairer to the defensemen who haven't been in the league all 8 years.
I might do that. Was gunna do GP, but too much work. Season's wouldnt be too bad.

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07-24-2013, 05:23 PM
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How many times were they ranked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd? That would give us a better idea of how many of these guys had a legitimate shot, and how many got throw away votes. Also, how people who are posting in this thread believe that Subban deserved the Norris trophy for this past season?

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07-24-2013, 05:26 PM
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Borjes Baumingdyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDose86 View Post
People can always twist #'s to prove their point.

I like how you did 8 seasons, number of votes, rankings, just the fact you covered so much.

good job, I like it.
I just want to throw a two seam fast ball at you to see if your avatar is correct.......I somehow think you won't hit it though.

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Old
07-24-2013, 06:29 PM
  #21
leafstilldeath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baarle View Post
Based on what? Simply your opinion? Name me a list of number 1 dman in this league and explain why Dion shouldn't be on said list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLegend28 View Post
Phaneuf isnt a 1st line dman in the league? You guys can name.. 59 other dmen better than Phaneuf? HA. You cant even name 15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
I think you need to browse other teams' rosters have a look at who they have on the point on the PP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
yea maybe if the d-core is Weber+Chara+Karlsson or something like that, but that would never happen.


Dion is a #2D-man to very few people, vast majority of teams he's a #1, he's a top 15 d-man in the league at LEAST, I'd argue top 10.

The number is not presented as a ranking but merely to count the number of D-men who are equally as good as Dion but less cap hit or are better than Dion who have equal or higher cap hit

The List:

1. Chara (Bos)
2. Karlson (Ott)
3. Subban (Mon)
4. Keith (Chi)
5. Webber(NSH)
6. Seidenberg (Bos)
7. Latang (Pit)
8. Beauchemin (Ana)
9. Schultz (Edm)
10. Doughty (LA)
11. Yandle (Phx)
12. Larsson (Phx)
13. Burns (SJ)
14. Seabrook (chi)
15. Goligoski (Dal)
16. Suter (Min)
17. Byfuglien (Win)
18. Pietrangelo (St. Louis)
19. Shattenkirk (St. Louis)
20. Bouwmeester (Cal)
21. Campbell (FLA)
22. Kronwall (Det)
23. Ehrhoff (Buf)
24. Del Zotta (NYR)
25. Staal (NYR)
26. Girardi (NYR)
27. Streit (NYI)
28. Corvo (Car)
29. Green (Wsh)
30. Carlson (Wsh)
31. Franson (Tor)
32. Gardiner (Tor)


I may be missing a few...

EDIT 1:
In addition, why Dion is not a stud D?

- doesn't have a good first pass out of D zone
- isn't a good skater
- mishandles puck on the blue line especially on PP
- never sacrifices his body to block a shot
- takes stupid runs on players while giving up position
- does not have active stick to cover larger area, for example, chara
-does not have enough IQ to shoot low on PP to get a rebound when high slot isn't working and he is missing the net
-Blocks vision of the goalie while playing D more often than not
-does not box out players out of goalie crease
-MOST IMPORTANTLY his primary job is to shut down no. 1 line of the opposition, does not do a good job at it. Reimer saved everyone's ass this season, mostly Dion.

i may have more need to think about it...

EDIT 2:
Didn't the precious Dion lead in giveaways this season? YUP # 1 quality D


Last edited by leafstilldeath: 07-24-2013 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Edit 2
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Old
07-24-2013, 07:10 PM
  #22
Quares27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post
The number is not presented as a ranking but merely to count the number of D-men who are equally as good as Dion but less cap hit or are better than Dion who have equal or higher cap hit

The List:

1. Chara (Bos)
2. Karlson (Ott)
3. Subban (Mon)
4. Keith (Chi)
5. Webber(NSH)
6. Seidenberg (Bos)
7. Latang (Pit)
8. Beauchemin (Ana)
9. Schultz (Edm)
10. Doughty (LA)
11. Yandle (Phx)
12. Larsson (Phx)
13. Burns (SJ)
14. Seabrook (chi)
15. Goligoski (Dal)
16. Suter (Min)
17. Byfuglien (Win)
18. Pietrangelo (St. Louis)
19. Shattenkirk (St. Louis)
20. Bouwmeester (Cal)
21. Campbell (FLA)
22. Kronwall (Det)
23. Ehrhoff (Buf)
24. Del Zotta (NYR)
25. Staal (NYR)
26. Girardi (NYR)
27. Streit (NYI)
28. Corvo (Car)
29. Green (Wsh)
30. Carlson (Wsh)
31. Franson (Tor)
32. Gardiner (Tor)


I may be missing a few...

In addition, why Dion is not a stud D?

- doesn't have a good first pass out of D zone
- isn't a good skater
- mishandles puck on the blue line especially on PP
- never sacrifices his body to block a shot
- takes stupid runs on players while giving up position
- does not have active stick to cover larger area, for example, chara
-does not have enough IQ to shoot low on PP to get a rebound when high slot isn't working and he is missing the net
-Blocks vision of the goalie while playing D more often than not
-does not box out players out of goalie crease
-MOST IMPORTANTLY his primary job is to shut down no. 1 line of the opposition, does not do a good job at it. Reimer saved everyone's ass this season, mostly Dion.

i may have more need to think about it...
what a horrendous list.

How can anyone possibly take you seriously after that? Joe Corvo? LOL. Apparently Joe Corvo is better than Phaneuf but not good enough for you to have known that he signed with Ottawa. You'd think someone would be aware of an elite #1 d-man signing somewhere...

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Old
07-24-2013, 07:16 PM
  #23
My Sweet Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
How many times were they ranked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd? That would give us a better idea of how many of these guys had a legitimate shot, and how many got throw away votes. Also, how people who are posting in this thread believe that Subban deserved the Norris trophy for this past season?
Highest scoring defenseman in the league and a trophy that has become increasingly about the glamour stats (i.e. points). I'm not horribly upset about it; he was one of the best defensemen in the league last year, but I still think Suter should have won it hands down. Not too far off in points and he played 27+ minutes a night against the best the West had to offer. Also, Letang likely would have beat Subban if he'd played like 5-10 more games or so.

Also, I think the other votes matter somewhat considering that we're looking at 71 defensemen. Though I guess cutting off the votes at some point would help trim off some of those 1 or 2 time nominees; make the list reflect the cream of the crop a little more.

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Old
07-24-2013, 07:20 PM
  #24
My Sweet Shadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafstilldeath View Post
The number is not presented as a ranking but merely to count the number of D-men who are equally as good as Dion but less cap hit or are better than Dion who have equal or higher cap hit

The List:

1. Chara (Bos)
2. Karlson (Ott)
3. Subban (Mon)
4. Keith (Chi)
5. Webber(NSH)
6. Seidenberg (Bos)
7. Latang (Pit)
8. Beauchemin (Ana)
9. Schultz (Edm)
10. Doughty (LA)
11. Yandle (Phx)
12. Larsson (Phx)
13. Burns (SJ)
14. Seabrook (chi)
15. Goligoski (Dal)
16. Suter (Min)
17. Byfuglien (Win)
18. Pietrangelo (St. Louis)
19. Shattenkirk (St. Louis)
20. Bouwmeester (Cal)
21. Campbell (FLA)
22. Kronwall (Det)
23. Ehrhoff (Buf)
24. Del Zotta (NYR)
25. Staal (NYR)
26. Girardi (NYR)
27. Streit (NYI)
28. Corvo (Car)
29. Green (Wsh)
30. Carlson (Wsh)
31. Franson (Tor)
32. Gardiner (Tor)
I'm a little confused. Where did this list come from? Does it have to do with the OP's rankings or did you just freestyle it? There seem to be some pretty questionable names on that list and some equally questionable omissions.

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Old
07-24-2013, 07:26 PM
  #25
leafstilldeath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quares27 View Post
what a horrendous list.

How can anyone possibly take you seriously after that? Joe Corvo? LOL. Apparently Joe Corvo is better than Phaneuf but not good enough for you to have known that he signed with Ottawa. You'd think someone would be aware of an elite #1 d-man signing somewhere...
I never said #1 elite D. I said D who are equally as good as Dion or better. Read first before working the keyboard

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