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Sundin To Habs Rumor (latest Gainey-Fletcher agree to deal; must sign Sundin 1st)

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05-31-2008, 04:56 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I just want to add that I don't like assigning line numbers on players with a coach like carbo. Ideally, I think carbo would love to roll 4 lines almost evenly. With the addition of sundin, he would at least be able to role 3 lines very evenly with confidence. Under carbo, plekanec would be no more or no less of a #1, #2, or #3 centre than Sundin or Koivu.

On certain nights when the team is not firing on all cylinders, he can elevate the ice times of the guys who do have their mojo going, but other than those certain nights, I think this is an ideal situation to keep the players relatively fresh throughout the rigorous 82 game schedule and hopefully, it pays dividends in the playoffs.
Very good post. Roll out your hot lines and swarm em with talented depth. Look at Detroit. To accept that line 3 and 4 are losers is no way to win without Sid.

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05-31-2008, 05:12 PM
  #102
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the alarmclock that will most likely awaken us from our Sundin dream will sound like a press conference with Cliff Fletcher at the mike. Cliff can't help but want Sundin back for at least one more year and we all know the Leafs have the inside track.

The Irony for Montreal fans is that the more the factor of money plays into this situation the better Montreal's chances of getting their crack at him. Getting Sundin to resist Leaf courting until July 1 will rely heavily on Sundin being convinced he should end his career on one of those Jerry Mcguire show-me-the-money moments.

And if JP Barry knows his business he has let his client know that Montreal will be offing an obscene contract to his client in July.

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05-31-2008, 05:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Hows everyone forgetting about Lapierre?
I'm not a hater of his, but is he really that good? The more the playoffs went on, the more I realized he's the type of player that wouldn't be on a Stanley Cup team, he'd be an AHL'er on a deeper team, he'll be gone soon enough, there will be better players coming to play his role.

I'd love to have Sundin, but I just can't see it happening.

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05-31-2008, 06:55 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
I'm not a hater of his, but is he really that good? The more the playoffs went on, the more I realized he's the type of player that wouldn't be on a Stanley Cup team, he'd be an AHL'er on a deeper team, he'll be gone soon enough, there will be better players coming to play his role.

I'd love to have Sundin, but I just can't see it happening.
kind of like Sean Avery.

Give the guy some time.

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05-31-2008, 07:36 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
I'm not a hater of his, but is he really that good? The more the playoffs went on, the more I realized he's the type of player that wouldn't be on a Stanley Cup team, he'd be an AHL'er on a deeper team, he'll be gone soon enough, there will be better players coming to play his role.

I'd love to have Sundin, but I just can't see it happening.
I hope you aren't counting on Chipchura to replace him.

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05-31-2008, 08:37 PM
  #106
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Would he be looking for $16 million for a two year deal?

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05-31-2008, 08:44 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preston View Post
I'm not a hater of his, but is he really that good? The more the playoffs went on, the more I realized he's the type of player that wouldn't be on a Stanley Cup team, he'd be an AHL'er on a deeper team, he'll be gone soon enough, there will be better players coming to play his role.

I'd love to have Sundin, but I just can't see it happening.
That's a really harsh assesment of Lapierre. He's the kind of player who'll draw his fair share of penalties as he matures.

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05-31-2008, 09:03 PM
  #108
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Not that this adds to the likelihood of Sundin coming here or anything, but he was topic of discussion on the Hot Stove tonight between the 2nd and 3rd.

It was brought up that it might be the best idea for the Leafs to see if they can get any value for his rights prior to July 1st. The example they gave of a team that could be interested was the Canadiens, proposing we may ship them a first round pick. It was all hypothetical talk rather than reality, but still interesting I guess to see media types discussing it.

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05-31-2008, 09:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by #11 Saku Koivu View Post
Not that this adds to the likelihood of Sundin coming here or anything, but he was topic of discussion on the Hot Stove tonight between the 2nd and 3rd.

It was brought up that it might be the best idea for the Leafs to see if they can get any value for his rights prior to July 1st. The example they gave of a team that could be interested was the Canadiens, proposing we may ship them a first round pick. It was all hypothetical talk rather than reality, but still interesting I guess to see media types discussing it.
That's simply Toronto-Centric stupidity being projected to a Leaf audience that loses interest in any programming that goes more than 8 minutes without talking about Toronto.

A first rounder. That's

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05-31-2008, 09:33 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
That's simply Toronto-Centric stupidity being projected to a Leaf audience that loses interest in any programming that goes more than 8 minutes without talking about Toronto.

A first rounder. That's
I agree, just sharing for those that are watching on RDS or missing the game as it is relevant discussion.

They were comparing it to Philly giving up a first rounder to negotiate with Timmonen and Hartnell, but of course, Philly was able to lock both those guys up long-term, whereas Sundin is nearing the end of his career. So they're not really comparable.

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05-31-2008, 09:40 PM
  #111
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I have Three reasons why i would sign Sundin.

#1. He is really really really good. If your top three centres are Sundin, Koivu and Plekanec. i dont care if Chipchura plays in the AHL again next year.

#2. He most likely he will only play for 1 more year. so no long contract to screw with our Rfas and Ufas next year.

#3. I have about 4-5 leaf friends and im fairly certain they would never be allowed to talk crap about mes Canadiens. Plus, can you imagine the CBC headline? "Mass Suicide Organised in Toronto" (a tasteless joke but im pretty sure it would be close to that)

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05-31-2008, 10:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
That's a really harsh assesment of Lapierre. He's the kind of player who'll draw his fair share of penalties as he matures.
Maybe, but right now, about all he can do well is skate.

He can't even forecheck effectively. He's not very good defensively. He's a liability out there, unfortunately.

He can kill penalties, at least.

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05-31-2008, 10:19 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Maybe, but right now, about all he can do well is skate.

He can't even forecheck effectively. He's not very good defensively. He's a liability out there, unfortunately.

He can kill penalties, at least.
All very true. That is why he should be put on the wing, he would not need to worry as much about defense and he could worry more about agitating and throwing his weight around like guys such as Avery and Ruutu do. When Begin was put on the wing he became a lot more effective and I think the same thing would help Lapierre out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikizaz View Post
I have Three reasons why i would sign Sundin.

#1. He is really really really good. If your top three centres are Sundin, Koivu and Plekanec. i dont care if Chipchura plays in the AHL again next year.

#2. He most likely he will only play for 1 more year. so no long contract to screw with our Rfas and Ufas next year.

#3. I have about 4-5 leaf friends and im fairly certain they would never be allowed to talk crap about mes Canadiens. Plus, can you imagine the CBC headline? "Mass Suicide Organised in Toronto" (a tasteless joke but im pretty sure it would be close to that)

#4. He drives to the ****ing net and uses his size!!!
Added one for you

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Old
05-31-2008, 10:22 PM
  #114
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The hotstove idiots actually believe that the Leafs would get a first round pick for a free agent?

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Old
05-31-2008, 10:29 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Maybe, but right now, about all he can do well is skate.

He can't even forecheck effectively. He's not very good defensively. He's a liability out there, unfortunately.

He can kill penalties, at least.
Well, he has some developing to do, but there are some guys in the Cup final right now who I wouldn't trade Lapierre for. He's much better than say Adam Hall or Dallas Drake, in my opinion.

He's no legend, but I don't think Lapierre cannot be part of a winning team by any stretch.

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Old
05-31-2008, 10:49 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
No saying Sundin will go to Montreal is wishful thinking. IF he were to go to another team, you should scratch Habs and Sens off that list. It's not so much he wouldn't go for a rival it's because Sens/Habs fans see him as a Leaf, he would get mixed reactions. That would be like Alfredson or Koivu joining the Leafs.. I would know it would improve the team (especially Alfy) but I picture them as Habs or Sens, even if they were to wear a Leafs jersey.

2 things will happen. Retire or resign with Leafs. He's getting married soon, how do you know he doesn't want to settle down and live his life.. he's one of the richest players to ever play, he doesn't need the money. The only way Sundin won't come back to Toronto is if they don't want him back, which isn't his fault. But I see MLSE wanting him so they keep that record streak going for consecutive sellouts, which has dated back to 1946! People pay to see Mats now-a-days, though, and that streak may break without the main guy in the show. Who knows, though.
I guess this is why Gilmour ..... oh wait bad example also a bad example is the argumanet about sellouts hello did you see any of those leafs teams in the 80's dude if they were selling out back then selling out without Sundin is not an issue the fact they are selling out the building every night is the real problem .... when the team sucks stop going .....


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05-31-2008, 10:54 PM
  #117
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You are wrong on this one. He just dosent like the idea of rental players. Secondly Sudine is a great way to get a big center while we wait for the good UFA crop of next year. I'd much rather sign Sundin 1 season and then have the opportunity to sign a guy like Lecavalier next season then to sign some guy that isnt an elite player for multiple seasons. Besides....Sundin is still a realy good hockey player.
with all due respect next years good UFA crop could very well be depleted by extensions in a big way .... trying to wait out a chance to bid against 29 other teams for guys that may or may not get re-signed by their own clubs within the next season ... then may or may not decide to go to your team even if you outbid another... then may turn out a bust ala Samsonov is not very good management and i don't think Bob is thinking like this. I sure as hell hope not anyway.

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05-31-2008, 11:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by #11 Saku Koivu View Post
I agree, just sharing for those that are watching on RDS or missing the game as it is relevant discussion.

They were comparing it to Philly giving up a first rounder to negotiate with Timmonen and Hartnell, but of course, Philly was able to lock both those guys up long-term, whereas Sundin is nearing the end of his career. So they're not really comparable.
Similarly, wasn't Philadelphia simply returning the pick they got from Nashville in the first place? Philly still got Van Riemsdyk (sp?), so it wasn't that big of a loss in the first place.

Montreal trading a first for the rights to Sundin would be ridiculous.

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05-31-2008, 11:51 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by vipergtsr404 View Post
with all due respect next years good UFA crop could very well be depleted by extensions in a big way .... trying to wait out a chance to bid against 29 other teams for guys that may or may not get re-signed by their own clubs within the next season ... then may or may not decide to go to your team even if you outbid another... then may turn out a bust ala Samsonov is not very good management and i don't think Bob is thinking like this. I sure as hell hope not anyway.
Samsonov is exactly why I dont want this team to commit to a sub par player or non elite player just because fans are restless and want their candy right away.

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05-31-2008, 11:52 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by drez54 View Post
Similarly, wasn't Philadelphia simply returning the pick they got from Nashville in the first place? Philly still got Van Riemsdyk (sp?), so it wasn't that big of a loss in the first place.

Montreal trading a first for the rights to Sundin would be ridiculous.
It was still a first pick....that they traded away. Doesnt mater where it came from.

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05-31-2008, 11:59 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
It was still a first pick....that they traded away. Doesnt mater where it came from.
The main point being they still got a lot more than Montreal would be getting for their pick. Yes, they moved it, but they got two good players locked up long-term. Montreal would get a one, maybe two-year deal in the works for Sundin, and that's assuming he actually signs here, while in turn losing a pick. No sense in doing it, when Philly got so much more for the same price.

Plus, isn't '09 going to be an incredibly deep draft? Assuming we're talking about an '09 first rounder.

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06-01-2008, 12:26 AM
  #122
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The main point being they still got a lot more than Montreal would be getting for their pick. Yes, they moved it, but they got two good players locked up long-term. Montreal would get a one, maybe two-year deal in the works for Sundin, and that's assuming he actually signs here, while in turn losing a pick. No sense in doing it, when Philly got so much more for the same price.

Plus, isn't '09 going to be an incredibly deep draft? Assuming we're talking about an '09 first rounder.
They were only speculating....just throwing an idea out there. It dosent mean it would cost a first rounder. At the draft a team can call them up with a 2nd or 3rd pick and tell them to take it or leave it. Cant we just discuss the concept instead of getting stuck on the pick that was speculated? It wasnt the point...

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06-01-2008, 12:34 AM
  #123
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Cant we just discuss the concept instead of getting stuck on the pick that was speculated? It wasnt the point...
I'm still trying to figure out why you quoted my post in the first place. I was just pointing out that Philly was returning a pick they received from Nashville, while still keeping their own (very high) first. Since someone brought up trading a first for Sundin's rights, in comparison with the Philly / Nashville trade, it is ridiculous.

A later-than-first-round pick, sure, I'd personally take the gamble, but not a first rounder. He's apparently waiting for Leafs management (GM and coach) issues to get sorted out, and if they aren't sorted out before July 1st, he may not even bother discussing a contract with the Montreal organization. A very sticky situation to jump into.

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Old
06-01-2008, 01:27 AM
  #124
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The Leafs have no rights to Sundin. BG would deal with Sundin's agent. Sundin will get lots of offers but if teams want to blow their budgets its risky business if they dont make revenues minus other expenses over the cap

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06-01-2008, 01:47 AM
  #125
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The Leafs have no rights to Sundin. BG would deal with Sundin's agent. Sundin will get lots of offers but if teams want to blow their budgets its risky business if they dont make revenues minus other expenses over the cap
They most certainly do have rights until July 1.

the concept is interesting, but nobody has really addressed the issue that snuffed out earlier trade attempts - Sundin's NTC. He can still block the trade, even if it's only one executed on paper .

First rounder , not a chance. Make it a 6th rounder, or Dandenault, or something appropriate for a few weeks of exclusive negotiation rights, and it's a reasonable undertaking.

If I am to believe what I read JP Barry is encouraging Sundin to test the market, if only to set the price for his negotiations with the Leafs. Gainey can get access to him at that time.

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