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Is it time for a new GM?????

View Poll Results: Time for a NEW GM?????
Yes 6 23.08%
No 20 76.92%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-30-2008, 02:12 PM
  #1
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Is it time for a new GM?????

Daryll sutter has been good but 3 first round exits, not much young talent on the team and some strange signings. is it time for a new GM. I think that this is far as we will get with Sutter. We need a new GM that can push us to the next level.

MOD EDIT: Added a Poll, for the heck of it.


Last edited by Hyde: 05-30-2008 at 02:34 PM. Reason: added a Poll
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05-30-2008, 02:19 PM
  #2
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I like Sutter and I'm perfectly fine with him as the GM of this team.

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05-30-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by StreakingRed View Post
I like Sutter and I'm perfectly fine with him as the GM of this team.

I like Sutter but can he take this team to the next level and can he players that can win. I am not sure that he can do that.

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05-30-2008, 02:22 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Daryll sutter has been good but 3 first round exits, not much young talent on the team and some strange signings. is it time for a new GM. I think that this is far as we will get with Sutter. We need a new GM that can push us to the next level.
I think 08/09 could be the telling year. If the team can't make a deep push into the playoffs then it might be time to start looking at other options.

That being said, Sutter has done a very solid job. He has made some great trades (kipper, tanguay) and while he's made some bad signings (amonte, friesen, mccarty) I'd say the good outweighs the bad on the whole. He has rebuilt our prospect pool and provided us w/ an all-world defensive talent in Phaneuf. If he can move away from his affinity for aging vets and can instead infuse the lineup w/ younger players who play more prominent roles I think the team will be fine and his job will be secure. I think it's too early to be considering a new GM.

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05-30-2008, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Abonics View Post
I think 08/09 could be the telling year. If the team can't make a deep push into the playoffs then it might be time to start looking at other options.

That being said, Sutter has done a very solid job. He has made some great trades (kipper, tanguay) and while he's made some bad signings (amonte, friesen, mccarty) I'd say the good outweighs the bad on the whole. He has rebuilt our prospect pool and provided us w/ an all-world defensive talent in Phaneuf. If he can move away from his affinity for aging vets and can instead infuse the lineup w/ younger players who play more prominent roles I think the team will be fine and his job will be secure. I think it's too early to be considering a new GM.

just out of Curiosity just thorw some names out there. Dave Nonis, Mike Milbury.

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05-30-2008, 02:32 PM
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just out of Curiosity just thorw some names out there. Dave Nonis, Mike Milbury.
Please andy, since you threw out those names, tell us why either one would be better then Sutter. What is there winning percentage, draft record,....blah, blah. Compare both to Sutter please and thank you.

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05-30-2008, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
just out of Curiosity just thorw some names out there. Dave Nonis, Mike Milbury.


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05-30-2008, 04:48 PM
  #8
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Sutter is doing a great job as GM.

He's not in the elite category like (Holland, Burke, Lamorello). But, he's doing a very good job.

Please don't forget what this organization was like before Sutter got here. We were the shame of Canada's 6 teams, players were reluctant to sign here. Now, players are eager to come here.

Sutter has created an identity for our team, something we did not have before.

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05-30-2008, 05:23 PM
  #9
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I am happy with Sutter.

What you see is what you get with him, and I like making playoffs every year, so I see no problem with him.

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05-30-2008, 06:25 PM
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He's done a wonderful job in transforming the team into something respectful since he began in 03. The core of Iginla, Regher, Phanuef and Kiprusoff are all signed to long-term deals either at market rates or below them.

However despite the fact the Flames have made to playoffs for the last 4 years, Sutter could find himself in a position similar to that of Ron Wilson. Wilson was fired despite the Sharks making the 2nd round for 3 straight years and the conference finals the year before. If the Flames don't make it past the first round in 09 or the team falters during the regular season, then I wouldn't be surprised if he's let go. It could just be a need for fresh flood or the team needing a different direction.

In my opinion, Sutter has a year or two to show that his drafting, coach and players are good enough to win.

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05-30-2008, 11:42 PM
  #11
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What he does this year will make me decide whether I think he should get canned or not:

1. What will he get for Tanguay in a trade? The results could be a job saver or a job loss for Daryl.

2. Who does he draft in the first round? He did good with Phaneuf, bad with Chucko/Pelech and remains to be seen with Irving/Backlund. He needs to draft a top 6 forward.

3. Will he let Keenan alienate anyone else further, especially Kiprusoff?

4. Will he re-sign or sign more fading veterans?

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05-30-2008, 11:48 PM
  #12
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Ya ever notice these teams that continually change management continue to flounder? Toronto is an excellent example.

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05-31-2008, 12:41 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
Mike Milbury.
Why not hire JFJ as assistant GM too?

Absolutely not, Sutter is the least of our worries.

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05-31-2008, 02:10 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
What he does this year will make me decide whether I think he should get canned or not:

1. What will he get for Tanguay in a trade? The results could be a job saver or a job loss for Daryl.

2. Who does he draft in the first round? He did good with Phaneuf, bad with Chucko/Pelech and remains to be seen with Irving/Backlund. He needs to draft a top 6 forward.

3. Will he let Keenan alienate anyone else further, especially Kiprusoff?

4. Will he re-sign or sign more fading veterans?
1. Who says Tanguay is getting traded?

2. Why is Pelech a bad pick? Great pro rookie season and it looks like he is going to be a top 4 guy eventually.

3. What? Going to have to explain this one. Who has Keenan alienated?

4. Sounds like Sutter is going in a younger direction. Not all of his veteran signings have been bad.


I love what Sutter has done for the most part. Doesn't have a perfect record, but nobody does. He has brought respectibility back to this organization and we are one of the few teams that have made the playoffs every year for the last 4 years. We have a fantastic core locked up long term and the team is going in the right direction.

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06-01-2008, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by flamesfan12 View Post
1. Who says Tanguay is getting traded?

2. Why is Pelech a bad pick? Great pro rookie season and it looks like he is going to be a top 4 guy eventually.

3. What? Going to have to explain this one. Who has Keenan alienated?

4. Sounds like Sutter is going in a younger direction. Not all of his veteran signings have been bad.


I love what Sutter has done for the most part. Doesn't have a perfect record, but nobody does. He has brought respectibility back to this organization and we are one of the few teams that have made the playoffs every year for the last 4 years. We have a fantastic core locked up long term and the team is going in the right direction.
+1 effing bang on.

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06-01-2008, 10:17 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
I am happy with Sutter.

What you see is what you get with him, and I like making playoffs every year, so I see no problem with him.
Yeah if were consistently in the hunt there is nothing wrong with that. I trust Sutter, I always have and we'll see how it turns out. I miss him as a coach too, not afraid to admit that either. I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

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06-02-2008, 06:27 AM
  #17
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I want Sutter to stay. Flamesfan12:s post says it all.

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06-02-2008, 12:19 PM
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I do not want him gone nor do I want him to stay, but he is running out of chances. We all know the good and bad moves he's done but it seems like everyone on this board is content that we have a few good prospects, we make the playoffs and have a farm system. Those are good pieces but not a big accomplishment.

Every year Sutter says they expect to win the cup or come close. We haven't come close in 3 years. This by sutter's own expectations. And we should make the playoffs, as more than half the teams in this league do. Sutter's trades are good, MOST of his signings have backfired and his drafting (other than Phaneuf and Backlund) is quite questionable.

People need to stop being impressed by the existence of a farm team and the fact we make the first round and start realizing that Sutter is here to win a cup. Nothing else. He's not even close to those standards and if we get ousted in the opening round for the 4th straight year or miss the playoffs, he has to go.

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06-02-2008, 01:23 PM
  #19
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^^^
Quote:
I do not want him gone nor do I want him to stay, but he is running out of chances.

I am only assuming here, you mean you’re running out of chances with Sutter? He needs to prove more to you? Or do you know something we don't?
Quote:
We all know the good and bad moves he's done…

Care to tell us me what you consider his bad and good moves before I agree to this part of your statement?
Quote:
..but it seems like everyone on this board is content that we have a few good prospects, we make the playoffs and have a farm system. Those are good pieces but not a big accomplishment.

They’re NOT! What do you consider a big accomplishment? Maybe signing the Core? But please don’t let me put words into your mouth.
Quote:
Every year Sutter says they expect to win the cup or come close. We haven't come close in 3 years. This by Sutter’s own expectations. And we should make the playoffs, as more than half the teams in this league do.

We’ve made the Playoffs so we’ve come closer then half the league? You have to give the Ducks, Wings and Sharks some credit here don’t you? It wasn’t as though the Flames didn’t play against any opposition!
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Sutter's trades are good, MOST of his signings have backfired ….

Which ones?
Quote:
…his drafting (other than Phaneuf and Backlund) is quite questionable.

Can to expound on this one? I am only as assuming here we are talking about drafting in the first round. So what is wrong with Chucko, Pelech and Irving? Why are they questionable to you?

Oh just in case you needed a refresher:

2003: #9 – Phaneuf
2004: #24 and no second round pick - Chucko
2005: #26 and no second round pick – Pelech
2006: #26 and no second round pick – Irving
2007: #24 and no second round pick - Backlund


Sutter has had very little opportunity to build his prospect base outside of the bottom 30% of the first round and personally I find that fact he has consistently turned second-round picks into very serviceable roster players impressive.
Quote:
People need to stop being impressed by the existence of a farm team and the fact we make the first round and start realizing that Sutter is here to win a cup. Nothing else. He's not even close to those standards and if we get ousted in the opening round for the 4th straight year or miss the playoffs, he has to go.

First off, don’t tell me not to be impressed with the fact we have a farm team or the Flames have made the Playoffs every year Sutter has been the GM. Those are in my opinion impressive accomplishments. Oh and who would you hire to replace Sutter? Who out there in GM land would be better for the Calgary Flames?

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06-02-2008, 02:59 PM
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Mod: Rant
How about Trevor Timmins from Montreal? The guy can spot talent.


Last edited by Hyde: 06-02-2008 at 03:34 PM. Reason: cleaned up
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06-02-2008, 03:35 PM
  #21
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How about Trevor Timmins from Montreal? The guy can spot talent.
For GM?

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06-02-2008, 03:46 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
^^^

I am only assuming here, you mean you’re running out of chances with Sutter? He needs to prove more to you? Or do you know something we don't?

Care to tell us me what you consider his bad and good moves before I agree to this part of your statement?

They’re NOT! What do you consider a big accomplishment? Maybe signing the Core? But please don’t let me put words into your mouth.

We’ve made the Playoffs so we’ve come closer then half the league? You have to give the Ducks, Wings and Sharks some credit here don’t you? It wasn’t as though the Flames didn’t play against any opposition!

Which ones?

Can to expound on this one? I am only as assuming here we are talking about drafting in the first round. So what is wrong with Chucko, Pelech and Irving? Why are they questionable to you?

Oh just in case you needed a refresher:

2003: #9 – Phaneuf
2004: #24 and no second round pick - Chucko
2005: #26 and no second round pick – Pelech
2006: #26 and no second round pick – Irving
2007: #24 and no second round pick - Backlund


Sutter has had very little opportunity to build his prospect base outside of the bottom 30% of the first round and personally I find that fact he has consistently turned second-round picks into very serviceable roster players impressive.

First off, don’t tell me not to be impressed with the fact we have a farm team or the Flames have made the Playoffs every year Sutter has been the GM. Those are in my opinion impressive accomplishments. Oh and who would you hire to replace Sutter? Who out there in GM land would be better for the Calgary Flames?

You seem to take offense lately to lots of things I say. I'm not trolling but I'm not impressed in 5 years by a cup run, 3 first round exits, the drafting of Dion and the fact that we have a farm team. If I am wrong and every one also wants and expects more from the GM and the team, then people should be demanding more than 3 first round exits. Every year we get eliminated Sutter says we expected (not hoped) to compete for the cup and get to the finals, and he is disappointed that they didn't. Then I come on here and people say, well, at least we made the playoffs. Tell that to Sutter and he'll tell you have to have greater expectations. But like I said, if I'm wrong and you're not happy with those things, why wouldn't you think there is or should be heat on a gm with not much high end talent coming up in terms of prospects and 3 straight first round exists? Yeah, we lots to good teams but that in itself isn't an excuse. We beat good teams in 2004.

When I said he's running out of chances that's my opinion. If I were ownership, I wouldn't be happy with no series wins since 2004. Don't forget that Calgary has gotten past the first round once since 1989. Once!!

Sutter's good moves - locking up the core, drafting Dion, trading for Kipper, Tanguay, Langkow and Huselius (despite the fallout), getting us into the playoffs consistently, the cup run, the fact that we have a farm team

Sutter's bad moves - the Ference/Kobasew deal, FA signings like Amonte, McCarty, Friesen and Eriksson, Primeau's contract extention, quite possibly Sarich's contract (that doesn't he's a terrible D, but it's a lot of money for a lot of years), the handling of young players like Giordano and Ramholt.

And mostly his drafting record. Even without Phaneuf it was almost impossible not to hit a home run in 2003. Sutter drafting Dion was astute, give him credit. However, in all those drafts we drafted late in the 1st round but in almost all those drafts we traded down from about 15th (our choice to stockpile picks) but don't tell me we didn't have the opportunity. If Pelech turns out to be a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy, that's an average first round pick but nothing to be proud of. Are we proud of taking Gauthier in the first round in 1995? That's what we're hoping for here. I was high on Chucko at the time but 4 years later and the guy will be luck to be another Donovan. I'm confident Boyd and Backlund will develop and despite Irving's bad press lately I think he can also turn into something special. However, this is not an impressive drafting record.

Sutter is about to enter his 6th draft. 6th! And all we have to show for it is Dion and Boyd. Heck, even Button drafted Lombardi, Moss, Nystrom and Krahn and guys that got away like Stoll and Moen (off the top of my head). Neither of them have great drafting records. Ryder is AWOL, we're choosing not to resign a guy like Pusstinen with offensive upside, Regehr 2.0 is toiling in europe and if we don't grab him back another NHL team will and we've drafted lots of Derian Hatcher types (Aulie, Baldwin, Pelech). All this is just off the top of my head. Ask yourself who was the best goal scorer this team ever drafted? When was the last time we drafted a sniper? In 10 years the best scorer we've drafted is Kobasew. It's been 10 years since we lost the top end guys we had in 1989.

Look, just because I'm critical doesn't mean I am not a fan. Sutter's not getting the desired results and has to be responsible for it. If we turn it around, draft gems and win the cup I'll give the man his due. In this post I've even given him his due for his successes but I will always mention his faults. This is what fans do. Expect more.

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06-02-2008, 04:08 PM
  #23
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^^
I guess it does seem I’m picking on you, and it is not because I think you’re a troll but more so because you have been making those snide little comments it seems in every other thread about Sutter. So I just wanted you to expound on why you’re feeling that way? Thank you, for your response at least now I understand how you see Sutter and the Future. As you are well aware we are polar opposites on this issue and If I had the time I would say what I disagree with regarding your post but we’ll have to leave that to a later date.

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06-02-2008, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
^^
I guess it does seem I’m picking on you, and it is not because I think you’re a troll but more so because you have been making those snide little comments it seems in every other thread about Sutter. So I just wanted you to expound on why you’re feeling that way? Thank you, for your response at least now I understand how you see Sutter and the Future. As you are well aware we are polar opposites on this issue and If I had the time I would say what I disagree with regarding your post but we’ll have to leave that to a later date.
That's the point of this board: to talk, argue and debate. That's the beauty of sports. It's cool if people agree with me but anyone has the same right to love Sutter as I do to be critical of him. I like the guy and think he's done a good job, but perhaps he'd be better served in a Dallas GM-split type situation. I don't know. Any GM in the league after 3+ years of stagnation I would call into question. However, you're right in that there are no GMs available that I can think of. He is not an elite GM but I guess all the good ones always have jobs. Another year of mediocrity and we should seriously look at replacing him.

If we get to the finals, win a cup and Negrin, Backlund, Irving and Pelech all turn it up and make this team better I'll admit Sutter's done the job. However, his track record seems to show he has immediate success before petering out.

I would love objectively debate his track record with anyone. That's what this board is for.

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06-03-2008, 12:30 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus Jack View Post
I do not want him gone nor do I want him to stay, but he is running out of chances. We all know the good and bad moves he's done but it seems like everyone on this board is content that we have a few good prospects, we make the playoffs and have a farm system. Those are good pieces but not a big accomplishment.

Every year Sutter says they expect to win the cup or come close. We haven't come close in 3 years. This by sutter's own expectations. And we should make the playoffs, as more than half the teams in this league do. Sutter's trades are good, MOST of his signings have backfired and his drafting (other than Phaneuf and Backlund) is quite questionable.

People need to stop being impressed by the existence of a farm team and the fact we make the first round and start realizing that Sutter is here to win a cup. Nothing else. He's not even close to those standards and if we get ousted in the opening round for the 4th straight year or miss the playoffs, he has to go.
What do you expect Sutter to say? Of course he expects to win the cup. I would hope all 30 GM's in the leauge expect and hope to be holding the cup at the end of the year. Fact is only one team wins and the parity in the league is greater then it has been for a long time.

I think it is a bit early to call his drafting questionable. We've had one pick in the top 10 the last five years. Unless you are picking in the top 10 every year your prospects are going to take time. Irving, Backlund, Pelech look like solid picks. Chucko is the one where we could have done better and Sutter has admitted he would have probably gone elsewhere. Our goaltending depth is probably top or very close to the top of the league. We've come away with two very good prospects in the third round in Boyd and Negrin.

I think making the playoffs the last 4 years is a great accomplishment. If I recall correctly only 6 teams have made the playoffs every year the last 4 years which puts us in pretty good company. The first round exits are dissapointing especially the Anaheim series, but we've been in everyone of those series. The core is here where the flames are capable of making a run Sutter just has to find the right additions to make to this club. And right now he is the only guy I want making those decisions and I feel he can make this club a winner.

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