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Blake Wheeler rejects Coyotes offer

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Old
05-31-2008, 10:30 AM
  #26
coolguy21415
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Out of curiosity, has Phoenix tried in previous years to sign Wheeler?

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05-31-2008, 10:37 AM
  #27
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Rumor has it they made him an offer last year as well, but he decided to go back to school. They may or may not have made him an offer the year before that, too. At any rate, the Coyotes have been extremely patient with Wheeler, and it's a shame he hasn't shown them a modicum of that loyalty.

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05-31-2008, 10:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PhoPhan View Post
Rumor has it they made him an offer last year as well, but he decided to go back to school. They may or may not have made him an offer the year before that, too. At any rate, the Coyotes have been extremely patient with Wheeler, and it's a shame he hasn't shown them a modicum of that loyalty.
My line of thinking was that they were possibly too patient, asking him to go back to school when he wanted to sign. That doesn't sound like it's the case.

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05-31-2008, 11:36 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I disagree. I think when a team takes a huge risk picking you much higher than you were slated to go and takes an incredible amount of heat for it, you do owe them something. It's called loyalty. It may not be a law that binds you to a team but it should be something, and unless Wheeler was treated unfairly to the likes that we've never before seen with a prospect, it would seem he has none.
I disagree with this...

Wheeler doesn't owe the Coyotes anything. Why should he have to be loyal to a team that he has never played for before... a city in which he's never lived in before? He never asked the coyotes to take him 5th in the draft. He was a 17 YO kid who a NHL franchise decided to pick in the draft, and after not signing him for the 4 years since, and not having built any relationship really with the franchise over that time, why should he now have loyalty to this organization, when he's basically weeks from getting to pick and choose where he wants to live and work?

either way it doesn't really matter... no one will even remember this in a year and his character or reputation won't be affected in the least... he'll still be playing where he wants (granted he continues to develop towards his potential). Really does anyone talk about Umberger anymore? forget his negotiations with Vancouver... he was traded to the Rangers, and decided not to sign with them to take an offer with Philly - closer to his hometown, and it's worked out great for him.

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05-31-2008, 11:51 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I disagree with this...

Wheeler doesn't owe the Coyotes anything. Why should he have to be loyal to a team that he has never played for before... a city in which he's never lived in before? He never asked the coyotes to take him 5th in the draft. He was a 17 YO kid who a NHL franchise decided to pick in the draft, and after not signing him for the 4 years since, and not having built any relationship really with the franchise over that time, why should he now have loyalty to this organization, when he's basically weeks from getting to pick and choose where he wants to live and work?

either way it doesn't really matter... no one will even remember this in a year and his character or reputation won't be affected in the least... he'll still be playing where he wants (granted he continues to develop towards his potential). Really does anyone talk about Umberger anymore? forget his negotiations with Vancouver... he was traded to the Rangers, and decided not to sign with them to take an offer with Philly - closer to his hometown, and it's worked out great for him.
Wheeler interviewed with Phoenix prior to the 2004 draft and obviously didn't bring up any concerns about playing in Phoenix at that moment in time.

Phoenix helped arrange for Wheeler to develop in Green Bay (USHL) before moving onto the NCAA. The exact situation that led to this moment of opportunity for Wheeler.

It's not like Wheeler has been out of contact with Phoenix over the last 4 years. Hell, even 3 weeks ago Wheeler said it was "up to Phoenix" to give him the contract he desired in order to become a Coyote. Phoenix went ahead and offered THE MAXIMUM contract allowed and he still refused to sign? What gives? This has all been a big charade by Wheeler to the point where now he comes off as an ungrateful lier. Phoenix has done everything they can do under the CBA to sign this kid. Everything Wheeler said about how happy he was back in 2004 to be drafted 5th overall by Phoenix goes out the window. I hope this works out for Wheeler. I hope this doesn't come down to a fear that he wasn't good enough to crack the roster as a reason for making the move. It's not like he's cracking the roster of a Stanley Cup contender at this point. He's going to have to work extremely hard to make any NHL roster next year.

I hardly think losing Wheeler is going to seriously hurt Phoenix. They sit now with 5 picks in the Top 49 of this draft coupled with a still very impressive youth movement.

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05-31-2008, 11:55 AM
  #31
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Well it would seem obvious that something happened to change Wheeler's mind about playing in Phoenix, or the development path they had set out for him.

Then again, maybe it's just a coup. Maybe he'll sign with Phoenix after all, and they'll still get the compensatory pick?

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05-31-2008, 04:59 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I disagree with this...

Wheeler doesn't owe the Coyotes anything. Why should he have to be loyal to a team that he has never played for before... a city in which he's never lived in before? He never asked the coyotes to take him 5th in the draft. He was a 17 YO kid who a NHL franchise decided to pick in the draft, and after not signing him for the 4 years since, and not having built any relationship really with the franchise over that time, why should he now have loyalty to this organization, when he's basically weeks from getting to pick and choose where he wants to live and work?
By that logic, no player drafted under the old CBA owed any team anything. They could have all just chosen not to sign and basically pick and choose where they wanted to play. Just because they're allowed to do it doesn't make it right in my opinion. A team watches you play for a couple of years, decides it wants you to play for its team over hundreds of other potential players, and you don't owe a single thing to them? I can't get behind the thinking there, sorry.

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05-31-2008, 05:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
I would be very surprised if he didn't sign in Minnesota.
Because he can greatly increase his next contract by playing the trap?

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05-31-2008, 05:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by CMacdonald View Post
Because he can greatly increase his next contract by playing the trap?
OT but you always have the strangest and best avatars.

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05-31-2008, 05:25 PM
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OT but you always have the strangest and best avatars.
Thanks!

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05-31-2008, 10:17 PM
  #36
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maybe minnesota....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
I would be very surprised if he didn't sign in Minnesota.
I had been thinking this but did not want to say anything because I am not big on stirring the pot. But, it has been said though so I may as well. It seems very likely Wheeler is going to at least make a bid for Minnesota. He is a native of the area and went to college there.

He would be a good fit for their team as he plays a good north-south game, is huge, and has a good work ethic. Which really makes him a good fit on any team.

Still though logic would point to the Wild.

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05-31-2008, 11:00 PM
  #37
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It's ok Phoenix...

when Joe Finley and Wheeler meet in the AHL, he will give some of what you feel back to him.


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06-01-2008, 01:27 AM
  #38
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Im thinking more along the lines when Carcillo meets up with Blakey-poo. Its gonna be bloody. I also hope if he signs with the Wild that the Coyotes call tempering on them.

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06-01-2008, 01:37 AM
  #39
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I see Murray making an offer for this kid as well. Definitely sounds like the type of player we need...

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06-01-2008, 02:16 AM
  #40
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If he wants a quick route to the NHL, he might consider signing with the Canucks. There would be a decent chance that he may even start on the 1st line w/ the Sedins.

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06-01-2008, 03:06 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jin View Post
If he wants a quick route to the NHL, he might consider signing with the Canucks. There would be a decent chance that he may even start on the 1st line w/ the Sedins.
makes sense. he would already be better than three quarters of the forwards playing there now. maybe even add some toughness to that weak lineup

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06-01-2008, 08:21 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Fan View Post
Im thinking more along the lines when Carcillo meets up with Blakey-poo. Its gonna be bloody. I also hope if he signs with the Wild that the Coyotes call tempering on them.
I was mostly referring to the tussle at the end of the Minnesota/ND game where Finley was trying his darndest to get Wheeler to go and he wouldn't.

Wheeler's a big kid, but he doesn't want anything of Joe Finley.

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06-01-2008, 08:56 AM
  #43
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Homer does love the American born players....

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06-01-2008, 09:11 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
By that logic, no player drafted under the old CBA owed any team anything. They could have all just chosen not to sign and basically pick and choose where they wanted to play. Just because they're allowed to do it doesn't make it right in my opinion. A team watches you play for a couple of years, decides it wants you to play for its team over hundreds of other potential players, and you don't owe a single thing to them? I can't get behind the thinking there, sorry.
yes, even in the new CBA, it works the same way... prospects can choose not to sign with the team that drafted them and then wait the 3 yrs to be a UFA or go back into the draft (or 4 yrs for college players).

It's the players right to do that... just like it's the team's right that after drafting said player, if they feel he's not good enough to be signed, they will walk away from any commitment they have with the player... such was the case with AJ Thelen and the Wild a couple years ago.

If the player is expected to commit to the team, regardless of what the rules state, shouldn't the team also be expected to commit to the player as well? If Thelen didn't develop to the Wild's liking, they should still be forced to sign him under a rookie contract because of the commitment they made when they drafted him?

it's a two way street here IMO... you can't expect a player to be loyal to a team unconditionally, while the teams are allowed to decide if they want to be loyal to the player or not.

that's why there's the rule in place that gives the player the right to walk away after a certain period of time... if in that time the club and the player can not come to an agreement, then it's the player right to walk away... and I don't see anything wrong with this at all!

You can't expect individuals to be give unconditional loyalty to an organization that they have never played for, and didn't ask to be drafted by, nor asked the organization to scout them, or spend anytime with them.

In your opinion here, players are nothing more than assets for an organization to do with as they please... if they don't like their development, the organization walks away... if they like their development, then they "expect" the player to sign.

This doesn't seem very logical to me in any business in the world. The individual with talent here should have some rights, some say in how they live their lives moving forward, and if 4yrs after being drafted they can't find that common ground with the club that drafted them, I wouldn't hold it against any player to walk away and choose a different path. It should be their rights as individuals to make such a choice... otherwise we're treating players like assets belonging to a club, and the CBA clearly gives the player more rights than that.

This is why I never hold it against any player that decides not to sign with a particular team... I didn't hold it against Umberger when he decided to walk from the canucks organization... it was the managements responsibility and their fault in the end for not getting the deal done...

all players need to have some rights here... it's only fair when the teams have the right to walk away whenever they want.

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06-01-2008, 09:22 AM
  #45
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I don't agree with letting a player walk away from a team without some sort of penalty.

If players can just pick whoever they want to sign for, why in the world would you hold a draft? They all are structured under the cap as to what money they can get, if this is a trend, the owners will look to prevent this type of action.

I understand that the owners hold all the rights in how much players can make and being able to walk away from a player. However if you let players just go to the teams they feel like without any consequence, then you're opening it up for the whole draft's purpose being relatively worthless. once again, big market teams and teams with areas that develop a large number of players and then teams with geographic/enjoyment benefits, will benefit and where teams with poor records or unstable ownership situations will suffer significantly.

In my opinion, if you want to let players walk, I think you should force the compensation to come from the team that signs him. Thus limiting the teams that would go out and attract those players and then reducing the desire to leave maximum offers on the table.

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06-01-2008, 09:24 AM
  #46
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minnesota would be retarded not to try and sign the kid.

however, they did bring in Chris Simon at the trade deadline, so....

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06-01-2008, 09:30 AM
  #47
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Would you want to play in Phoenix?

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06-01-2008, 09:32 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I don't agree with letting a player walk away from a team without some sort of penalty.

If players can just pick whoever they want to sign for, why in the world would you hold a draft? They all are structured under the cap as to what money they can get, if this is a trend, the owners will look to prevent this type of action.

I understand that the owners hold all the rights in how much players can make and being able to walk away from a player. However if you let players just go to the teams they feel like without any consequence, then you're opening it up for the whole draft's purpose being relatively worthless. once again, big market teams and teams with areas that develop a large number of players and then teams with geographic/enjoyment benefits, will benefit and where teams with poor records or unstable ownership situations will suffer significantly.

In my opinion, if you want to let players walk, I think you should force the compensation to come from the team that signs him. Thus limiting the teams that would go out and attract those players and then reducing the desire to leave maximum offers on the table.
if trends like this were to develop, don't you think it would have happened already?

this isn't a new concept... players have had the right to walk away from the team that has drafted them for a long, long time... at least in the last couple of CBA's. The one difference in this CBA is that it put the Euro players in the same category as NA player, in how long they have before the team needs to sign them (previously 7 yrs IIRC).

the advantage that teams have always had is that they can a) sign them for more than any other team, and b) they can negotiate with these players from the day they are drafted - thus giving them a big advantage in signing them, and giving them more money in the years prior to said player hitting UFA status (or going back into the draft).

If a team waits 4 yrs to sign their prospect, they lose their leverage overall...

again, this concept isn't new... if it was new in this CBA, then I could agree that a trend could occur the next CBA would need to address this somehow... but we've always had a system like this... we've seen several players in the past not sign with the team that drafted them (Wheeler this year, but Thelen and Umberger, as mentioned recently... Stoll was originally drafted by the Flames... didn't sign and because of his age went back into the draft... there are a host of other players in this same situation over the years as well).

bottom line - IMO you can not expect the players to have some kind of unconditional loyalty to a team that drafts them.... in the end it's all a business negotiation, and if you can't seal the deal - for whatever reason - in the 3 or 4 yrs you have the player's rights - then the player should be able to explore other options.

the CBA is designed to give the team a lot of advantages here in locking the player up as well... from exclusive negotiation rights for 3-4 yrs, to giving them the highest allowable contract, to the salary cap, which gives every team an upper limit and doesn't allow any one team to spend endlessly to get all the prospects they way signed as UFAs.

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06-01-2008, 10:39 AM
  #49
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the difference is, there used to be a lot more flexibility with contracts and offers. The original team can offer more money, but the difference is not monumental when you consider that both players will stand to make about the same in the AHL, and potentially a player could pick a team he feels he will get the most chance to make NHL money in the shortest time.

With the Cap and the lesser control over the player (knocking two years of rights ownership) and reduction for the time someone owned a players rights could lead to an increase in this type of action.

Look, I understand it realistically could have happened more in the past. But right now the setting is right to allow players to make this conclusion. The ball game also changes significantly when it is a high draft choice making the decision. Thelen's not even in the same category. For the team at that time, the compensatory pick was worth significantly more to them for a prospect that had his stock drop a lot since his draft day. Umberger's closer to the issue at hand here, but I wonder what the salary figures that were involved were. Wheeler was a reach, but a player of his ilk still has significant value to an organization. He isn't a throw in or a mid round pick, this is a top end prospect who commanded the max deal. I could see if a team offered him less cash, but to get offered the max and turn it down is what is frightening. I almost hope he doesn't to well so it doesn't turn into something others try. If top picks say forget it, I will make all the money I want wherever I want to play, that is the fear. If a mid rounder or a low pick doesn't want to play in one organization because of money or opportunity, that is NO issue but when its a top pick, teams need some certainty.

It might be hard for a Canadian team's fan to understand or comprehend the fear this could place in fans of expansion and other "less desirable" teams (though that might be right up the alley of many extremist anti-American NHL fans). You have teams that many of the players and prospects have grown up rooting for or have desirable markets for young players to play in. Some might want to be closer to home, some might have played in a certain region. But the fear that you could take a top 5 pick and then have him basically say in 4 years time that he has no desire to play for your franchise is scary for fans of most teams.

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06-01-2008, 10:56 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Well it would seem obvious that something happened to change Wheeler's mind about playing in Phoenix, or the development path they had set out for him.

Then again, maybe it's just a coup. Maybe he'll sign with Phoenix after all, and they'll still get the compensatory pick?
Can Phoenix fans confirm that Wheeler was playing center in college and Maloney ecently said he wanted him playing wing for the Yotes?

Maybe the kid doesn't want to switch and sees the center depth in the Phoenix organization.

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