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Hunter or Spezza

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Old
02-13-2004, 11:51 PM
  #1
Brentfax
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Hunter or Spezza

Trent Hunter or Jason Spezza

Hunter- a player who is showing signs of a top notch power forward like a Tkachuk or Shanahan, plays solid in both ends of the ice.

or Spezza- a developing quality playmaker with some scoring ability who is a bit of a liability in his own zone.

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02-13-2004, 11:53 PM
  #2
Epsilon
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You've got to be kidding with this thread right?

Spezza - will probably be a top 10 center in the NHL.

Hunter - likely to top out as a 2nd line winger.

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02-13-2004, 11:55 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Hunter - likely to top out as a 2nd line winger.
He's a rookie and he's already a 2nd liner, if not a 1st liner. Spezza is easily the more talented, but right now Hunter is the better all-around player.

I agree however, that Spezza's ceiling is higher. Just don't short-change Hunter's future.

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02-13-2004, 11:59 PM
  #4
Brentfax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You've got to be kidding with this thread right?

Spezza - will probably be a top 10 center in the NHL.

Hunter - likely to top out as a 2nd line winger.
You don't see Hunter play much obviously. What do you think of Spezza's defensive play?

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:06 AM
  #5
Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentfax
You don't see Hunter play much obviously. What do you think of Spezza's defensive play?
He's 21 years old, that really doesn't matter right now much to me. It's not very good but it's not atrocious, because if it was he wouldn't be getting ice time on Ottawa.

I didn't claim that Hunter isn't going to be a good player, I just don't see a huge upside to him above what he's been showing already. Comparisons to Tkachuk and Shanahan don't really seem warranted to me. Not every forward makes huge strides from their rookie years onward, but that doesn't mean they won't be pretty good players anyway (Scott Gomez is a good example of this).

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:08 AM
  #6
Brentfax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
He's 21 years old, that really doesn't matter right now much to me. It's not very good but it's not atrocious, because if it was he wouldn't be getting ice time on Ottawa.

I didn't claim that Hunter isn't going to be a good player, I just don't see a huge upside to him above what he's been showing already. Comparisons to Tkachuk and Shanahan don't really seem warranted to me. Not every forward makes huge strides from their rookie years onward, but that doesn't mean they won't be pretty good players anyway (Scott Gomez is a good example of this).

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:18 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
He's 21 years old, that really doesn't matter right now much to me. It's not very good but it's not atrocious, because if it was he wouldn't be getting ice time on Ottawa.

I didn't claim that Hunter isn't going to be a good player, I just don't see a huge upside to him above what he's been showing already. Comparisons to Tkachuk and Shanahan don't really seem warranted to me. Not every forward makes huge strides from their rookie years onward, but that doesn't mean they won't be pretty good players anyway (Scott Gomez is a good example of this).

But how much have you seen Hunter play? Here is a guy who started out on the forth line with no pp time and has usually played with 3rd line checkers most of the year. Only after about 30 games into the season did he start getting significent pp time. Spezza's offensive play will be solid plus, but I don't think so ever defensively, and physical play no comparison. Your no comparison attitude is way off.

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:25 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
You've got to be kidding with this thread right?

Spezza - will probably be a top 10 center in the NHL.

Hunter - likely to top out as a 2nd line winger.
As much as I hate to be so definite sounding about young players, I just don't feel that Hunter has potential approaching that of Spezzas.

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:25 AM
  #9
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I can't believe this is a thread.

I mean your just trying to play on an apparent ignorance of people knowing about Trent Hunter.

give me a break

and I mean the big thing here is there not even the same kind of player in any wya shape or form...

It's like compraing Craig Janney and Gary Roberts...you just don't do it....

and I mean Hunter, yeah a big surprise...haha...but I mean Spezza is going to be a dynamic franchise type player.....

Even if he's not he's touted like that....Performing like that .....and not a player that mirrors Trent Hunter in any way shape or form....

Next up let's compare this couch, with a baked potato......

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:27 AM
  #10
Brain Hemorrhage
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"Hunter is likely to top out as a 2nd line winger" ???

Who would say such a thing? You obviously have done no research.

TRENT HUNTER NYI R 52 22 19 41
JASON SPEZZA OTT C 54 18 22 40

Hunter is in the top 50 in the NHL in scoring... as a rookie. Sorry but he is already the Islanders top right wing. When Mark Parrish comes back from his ankle injury, expect to see Parrish on the second line.

Hunter, although not fast, has way better lateral moves than most every other Islander skater. He also turns effectively, which means he uses his body making a turn to shake off a defender. His moves are not fast, but his skating technique this year has improved so much. Everyone knows there are players every now and then like this; they don't skate fast but they skate WELL.

Hunter also is a solid forechecker. He also dominates along the boards and is starting to use his size this year. Last year he couldn't make the roster because he didn't show enough willingness to use his body. He was aggressive in training camp last year, but that aggressiveness didn't translate into taking and giving hits; just taking shots and giving the goalies a nice whack right at the whistle on a save. The fact Hunter is using his size makes him a true power player in every sense of the word.

Hunter has also set-up his teammates on many occasions, but he NEVER passes up his own shot if it is there, which in my opinion is a good thing. Hunter has a great wrist shot and to pass the puck rather than shoot in such situations is a crime. His teammates don't seem to mind much and have been willing to screen the goalie for him. Most of his linemates will settle for that, and, if they are lucky, maybe get a redirection and goal credited to them.

As for Spezza... the kid is proving he isn't all hype. Now he just needs to evolve his defensive game and win more faceoffs. I don't classify a player as a top 10 centermen unless he can go toe-to-toe with Adam Oates in the circle and say, "This draw is mine."

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:29 AM
  #11
Brentfax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubax
I can't believe this is a thread.

I mean your just trying to play on an apparent ignorance of people knowing about Trent Hunter.

give me a break

and I mean the big thing here is there not even the same kind of player in any wya shape or form...

It's like compraing Craig Janney and Gary Roberts...you just don't do it....

and I mean Hunter, yeah a big surprise...haha...but I mean Spezza is going to be a dynamic franchise type player.....

Even if he's not he's touted like that....Performing like that .....and not a player that mirrors Trent Hunter in any way shape or form....

Next up let's compare this couch, with a baked potato......
Your right you haven't watched enough of both players to make a comment. Next.

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Old
02-14-2004, 12:44 AM
  #12
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentfax
Trent Hunter or Jason Spezza

.
Hmmm. Let's try this instead:

Hunter or Spezza:

Hunter- a player who is showing signs of a second tier power forward (if such a thing exists) somewhere between a Scott Mellanby and Glen Murray, plays solid at both ends of the ice in his rookie season as a 23 years old.

or Spezza- a 20 years old developing star forward who has good size, radar-like vision, a creativity rarely seen in this league, great stickhandling, a good scoring touch to go with over-the-top playmaking abilities and is starting to go to the net and further his work ethic. His defense liability tag is overblown but can still work on his game. Oh, and has a good chance to become a top 10 player in this league. Probably a sure bet to be a top 5 center at the vey least.

Yeah, let me think about that one for a while...

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Old
02-14-2004, 10:19 AM
  #13
Brain Hemorrhage
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Hunter- a player who is showing signs of a second tier power forward (if such a thing exists) somewhere between a Scott Mellanby and Glen Murray, plays solid at both ends of the ice in his rookie season as a 23 years old.
How often do you watch the Islanders play? I am not the one who is comparing Hunter to Spezza, mind you, nor did I say it was ever a suitable comparison. First I would have to say I am perplexed at what "second tier power forward" means exactly... However, going by your added yet still somewhat perplexing definition of "somewhere between Scott Mellanby and Glen Murray," I can just say this:

I was going to say I would guess that, Hunter, this season, has probably had a better year than Mellanby has had in his career. I also just looked up the stats now to make sure my point was valid statistically speaking:
Season Team GP G A TP PIM +/- PP
1995-96 FLOR, NHL 79 32 38 70 160 4 19
1993-94 FLOR, NHL 80 30 30 60 149 0 17
2002-03 SLOU, NHL 80 26 31 57 176 1 13
1996-97 FLOR, NHL 82 27 29 56 170 7 9

Mellanby is, by those statistics, a proven 50 point player. He also had his best years with Florida on the power play. I mean, 19 and 17 pp goals is pretty ridiculous. The nice thing about those pp goals is you know none of them came with an empty net. Those were earned. Basically, when Mellanby plays a full season he is fully capable of scoring 25 goals. But his _best_ output has been 32 goals and 70 assists. Hunter's 82 game projection for this season is over that already I believe... Also, Mellanby is only 6'1" 199. Hunter is 6'4" 225...

Now moving on to Glen Murray:

Season Team GP G A TP PIM +/- PP
2002-03 BOST, NHL 82 44 48 92 64 9 12
1999-00 LOSA, NHL 78 29 33 62 60 13 10
2001-02 BOST, NHL 73 35 25 60 40 26 5
1997-98 LOSA, NHL 81 29 31 60 54 6 7
2003-04 BOST, NHL 57 23 22 45 32 13 7

Only recently has Murray turned up his scoring production. Yet, other than last year with his TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS season (not taking anything away from him!) he has been a 25 goal scorer (when healthy) with the ability to crack 30. Talent-wise, I will admit Murray's soft hands are better than his career statistics indicates. Also, Murray is 6'2" 215.

And not to pick nits, but Murray also plays with one of the up and coming franchise players in our game -- Joe Thornton. Hunter is playing this season so far with: Shawn Bates, Jason Blake, Oleg Kvasha, Mattias Weinhandl, Justin Papineau, and Mariusz Czerkawski. Oleg Kvasha has never broken 40 points... in his career. He might this season it looks like anyway. Jason Blake broke 50 pts last year almost tripling his highest career total. This season he looks to be having another 20+ goal season. Shawn Bates has NO 20 goal seasons. 20% of his _CAREER_ NHL goals have been _SHORTHANDED_. His best season was 52 points DESPITE playing on a second line with Mark Parrish and Michael Peca that season. He should've scored more, is what I think I am saying. But he is limited offensively and has lousy puck control.

Anyway... as you can see, with the exception of the rather one dimensional Mariusz Czerkawski, who he has only played with the last five games or so... Hunter has played with virtual nobodies. Any Islanders fan will tell you he is carrying whatever line he plays with, too... at both ends of the ice.

Hunters stats are:
Season Team GP G A TP PIM +/- PP
2003-04 NYIS, NHL 52 22 19 41 12 19 3

And do you know how much ice time he is averaging so far this year? 15:53 a game. In fact, to be fair, I should mention that the current combination of Czerkawski-Hunter-Kvasha has an ATOI of 13:22-18:06-15:53 respectively. Why those three lead the team in points, I would probably point to Parrish and Yashin's injuries.

Anyway, this isnt the first time we haven't seen eye to eye Vlady So dont take it as an offense. Bare in mind im not comparing Hunter to Spezza. I am simply saying the improvement Hunter has made in his skating this season has been -dynamic- to his overall game. I would have to say the Glen Murray comparison is probably the most suitable. I think the Mellanby one is a bit hanging off the edge.

How many times have you seen Hunter play this year off-hand? I am an Isles fan so Ive seen him for all but two games he's played in this year, and I can tell you he is the only Islander who can consistently break double teams. His wrist shot has been robbed about five times this year by the crossbar too. One inch lower and you got a goal. Not to mention some of the great saves some goalies have made on him. Point being, these 22 goals are legit.

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Old
02-14-2004, 02:12 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentfax
Spezza- a developing quality playmaker with some scoring ability who is a bit of a liability in his own zone.
"some" scoring ability .

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Old
02-14-2004, 05:21 PM
  #15
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too many people are obsessed with potential in here so they seem to under estimate certain players.

that being said ive seen hunter play about 5 times this year, he is an awsome player who i think will become a very valuable two-way power forward who will also become a great leader. <-------- this is rare, and extreamly valuable.

spezza is 21 has uncanny vision, great"potential" who most likely will become an offencive star in this league for years to come, he's been known to dive, doesnt have great leadership qualities, but his "potential" is great.<-----there are many players like him right now and many more will come in the future.


so i went unorthodox with this and went with Trent hunter, but i have at least seen them both play.

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Old
02-14-2004, 05:27 PM
  #16
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Hunter, he is aggresive and has offense. I am more biased to guys who check and play a physical game.

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Old
02-14-2004, 05:28 PM
  #17
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I really liek Trent Hunter... But he is 23 yr old compare to 20 for Spezza.

Hunter may be a rookie, but Spezza almost do...

We have seen a lot of player like Trent Hunter become a fluke. I'm not guessing he will do. But when a player is coming from no-where for explode like he do this this, sometime, and very ofter, this player disapear just as easily.

I would like to have Hunter in mt tea. And I very like his game VS Montreal this year. He got some drive that I very like from a player. He is getting a mean streak...

But compare him to Spezza is just unfair... Spezza is developing to be a top-notch high scoring center in the NHL. He is improving a lot. And his offensive game, already pretty good last year, is developping faster and faster.

He is getting chemistry with Havlat. With Hossa he played fairly well to.

For a third line center getting second PP time, he is producing a lot better than expected for a 20 yr old.

For the player who is playing less 14 minutes. He is the BEST IN THE NHL...

I'm taking Spezza. But it's nothing against Hunter, They are simply in two different categorie...

Spezza was expected to be a superstar offensively and he starting to prove that...
and his defensive play is not as worse... He is +15 (or so)..

So he is good at even stregth hockey. His force is Power Play... So...

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02-14-2004, 06:50 PM
  #18
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Trent seems to be the more overall better player. reverse the teams and put Trent with Ottawa and Spezza with isles and Trent will have even more points while Spezza also feeds off some very good Ottawa players. Trent has bsaically taken the Isles team and lef them this year. The guy is showing good promise for being a future captain as well, something I don't think Spezz will ever do.

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02-14-2004, 07:31 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
I really liek Trent Hunter... But he is 23 yr old compare to 20 for Spezza.

Hunter may be a rookie, but Spezza almost do...

We have seen a lot of player like Trent Hunter become a fluke. I'm not guessing he will do. But when a player is coming from no-where for explode like he do this this, sometime, and very ofter, this player disapear just as easily.

...

I'd go with Spezza because the scouts think he has the potential to become a franchise player.

but I disagree that Hunter's come out of nowhere.His skating's been his big weakness and probably why the Ducks weren't interested in signing him.He's taken offseason power skating the last 2 yrs.


In his final junior season in 1999-00 with Prince George (WHL), Hunter's 46 goals in 67 games ranked him fourth in WHL goal scoring…His 46-48-94 point totals were good for seventh in league scoring and the team’s point-scoring lead

2000-2001: Made his professional debut with Springfield (AHL)…Scored 18 goals and 35 points in 57 games.

the last 2 yrs he's scored 30 goals a yr in Bridgeport,been their leading scorer.

I'd like to see Hunter continue the off season power skating.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:17 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Hunter- a player who is showing signs of a second tier power forward (if such a thing exists) somewhere between a Scott Mellanby and Glen Murray, plays solid at both ends of the ice in his rookie season as a 23 years old.
You almost say that as though it's a sleight against Hunter. If Hunter's top end is between playoff warrior and top 5 goal scorer, then I think Isles fans will be more than happy with that. I know I'd be. And Hunter definitely seems like he may well be on the path to becoming just that.

Hunter's proven more at this point, but Spezza's a few years younger and still has plenty of time. Spezza has a rarer quality about him, and most likely has the higher top end. I don't see him becoming the next Lemieux, but he could well turn into an Allison clone. Then again, I also think Hunter seems like he might be a Leclair type. And if that happens, I think they could both be equally useful players. The difference however, is that Spezza could well turn out to be an even better player than Allison, whereas Hunter will be lucky to become as good as Leclair. But development is tricky to predict, and power players take longer to develop.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:19 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
You almost say that as though it's a sleight against Hunter. If Hunter's top end is between playoff warrior and top 5 goal scorer, then I think Isles fans will be more than happy with that. I know I'd be. And Hunter definitely seems like he may well be on the path to becoming just that.

Hunter's proven more at this point, but Spezza's a few years younger and still has plenty of time. Spezza has a rarer quality about him, and most likely has the higher top end. I don't see him becoming the next Lemieux, but he could well turn into an Allison clone. Then again, I also think Hunter seems like he might be a Leclair type. And if that happens, I think they could both be equally useful players. The difference however, is that Spezza could well turn out to be an even better player than Allison, whereas Hunter will be lucky to become as good as Leclair. But development is tricky to predict, and power players take longer to develop.
I disagree with you on one part. Spezza has proven more than Hunter at this point.

Spezza has 19 goals to Hunters 22
Spezza has 23 assists to Hunters 19

And Spezza is 3 years younger.

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02-14-2004, 09:21 PM
  #22
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Spezza , even if i could get Hunter and his clone

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02-14-2004, 09:31 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Hemorrhage

As for Spezza... the kid is proving he isn't all hype. Now he just needs to evolve his defensive game and win more faceoffs. I don't classify a player as a top 10 centermen unless he can go toe-to-toe with Adam Oates in the circle and say, "This draw is mine."
While I agree that Hunter is being somewhat underrated here.

You are completely offbase with this assessment.

Jason Spezza's current faceoff percentage is 47.1%, which is much better than Peter Forsberg's (42.8%) currently. So Peter Forsberg isn't a top 10 centerman in the NHL?

Hmm, some flawed logic if I've ever seen it.

And Spezza's defensive game isn't that bad, just like his skating isn't that bad. They were things the media overblew in order to single out a weakness for Spezza. If his defensive game were truly poor, he wouldn't be playing for Jacques Martin.

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02-14-2004, 09:33 PM
  #24
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Jason Spezza. I've seen both play and to me it's not even a question: I'd take Jason Spezza over Trent Hunter any day of the week and twice on sunday. He's goot top-end skills and will be one of the best center in the game a few years from now.

I must admit that I watched Spezza more often and that he is a total Habs-killer so he is obviously making a huge impression on me so far.

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Old
02-14-2004, 09:35 PM
  #25
Brock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames
Hunter, he is aggresive and has offense. I am more biased to guys who check and play a physical game.
Wayne Gretzky or Jeremy Roenick?

Marcel Dionne or Dino Ciccarelli?

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