I'd be surprised if the Kings would make that deal. Cammalleri for Pitkanen's "potential" is a steal for us. Of course, I'm bias since I don't think Pitkanen is going to get any better and Cammalleri has already shown point a game skills.
My only concern are his injuries and the fact that he'd replace HOrcs...so where does Horcs fit in?
[EDIT] WOW. I just read back and the idea that Pitkanen is worth the second overall (a top pairing Dman either way) PLUS Frolov is rediculous.
I'd be surprised if the Kings would make that deal. Cammalleri for Pitkanen's "potential" is a steal for us. Of course, I'm bias since I don't think Pitkanen is going to get any better and Cammalleri has already shown point a game skills.
My only concern are his injuries and the fact that he'd replace HOrcs...so where does Horcs fit in?
Cammalleri plays wing mostly (at when I've seen him). He's pretty small and gets pushed around easily, but man he shoots a LOT.
Cammalleri does NOT replace Horcoff... he might replace a second liner.
I'm not a fan of Pitkanen, but I'll admit he's a good defenseman and he's worth far more than Cammalleri.
I'd be surprised if the Kings would make that deal. Cammalleri for Pitkanen's "potential" is a steal for us. Of course, I'm bias since I don't think Pitkanen is going to get any better and Cammalleri has already shown point a game skills.
My only concern are his injuries and the fact that he'd replace HOrcs...so where does Horcs fit in?
So has Pitkanen... 46 points in 58 games in his second season for a PPG of 0.79. Cammalleri's best season was 80 points in 81 games for a PPG of 0.98. I would much rather take a defenseman who has scored at a near-0.80 PPG rate at age 22 than a forward who scored at a near-PPG rate at age 24.
Trading Pitkanen for a forward or a pick would be horrendous for our D corps next year. It is a good recipe to make sure we miss the playoffs again.
I like Cammalleri a lot but we will be close to what LA has been the last couple years. Great offensive tools but still a bottom feeding team that lets in goals in the bunches.
I think Cammalleri destroyed a good bit of his trade value with his performance last year.
He's not going to land L.A. a 6-3, 24-year-old puck moving d-man who was a top five pick, has topped 40+ points in his career multiple times already, and is most importantly still under his RFA contract (whereas Cammalleri is a UFA).
No way. The Kings would probably do Cammalleri for Smid or Stoll straight across, I think they know that he's going to walk next summer anyway.
Pitkanen is an RFA whom is looking for 5+ million. I would rather spend that money on a stay at home tough as nails type guy.
Why? A "tough as nails" type guy would have been good pre lockout, but now puck moving d-men are at a premium and needed for success. Pitkanen is one of the best puck movers in the game. Replacing him with a "tough as nails" guy would make us a worse team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spot
Penner may become a "powerforward" and might be good for 25+ goals a season. However Frolov> Penner. Way more upside and skill in a guy like Frolov. You get the goal scoring and playmaking abilities. Him and Hemmer would be sick.
If the deal was Penner for Frolov straight up I wouldn't hesitate to make that deal, but that wasn't the deal you proposed. Pitkanen and Penner > Frolov.
Why is he way further ahead. They can move the puck. Pits cant be coached. Did you listen to Mact's interview today. There is still alot of things they want Joni to work on. Sounds liek a project also. His point production is dropping instead of going up. Blame injuries or not I would take a chance on a kid. Hell look at how many heads Gagner turned last summer.
First off, forwards are different then D-men in that they can play at a high NHL level sooner. Dmen need time to mature and get used to the speed and tricks that NHL forwards use. Rarely are d-men top pairing guys before 25, and almost never are they true number 1 guys before that time.
Secondly, Joni is further ahead because he is 24 and has already proven himself a capable NHL top pairing d-man. You think Doughty or Bogosian will step into our top 2 next year? Laughable.
There maybe some things Joni has to work on to become an elite level NHLer instead of the top pairing guy he is right now, but it is way way way less then the number of things Doughty/Bogosian need to do to play at that same level. Starting with mature for at least 5 years.
Joni for a draft pick(which turns into a D-man) is a huge step back for us.
First off, forwards are different then D-men in that they can play at a high NHL level sooner. Dmen need time to mature and get used to the speed and tricks that NHL forwards use. Rarely are d-men top pairing guys before 25, and almost never are they true number 1 guys before that time.
Secondly, Joni is further ahead because he is 24 and has already proven himself a capable NHL top pairing d-man. You think Doughty or Bogosian will step into our top 2 next year? Laughable.
There maybe some things Joni has to work on to become an elite level NHLer instead of the top pairing guy he is right now, but it is way way way less then the number of things Doughty/Bogosian need to do to play at that same level. Starting with mature for at least 5 years.
Joni for a draft pick(which turns into a D-man) is a huge step back for us.
So if Joni doesnt want to sign long term here........then its not a huge step back at all. If your counting one year as a huge step back and 7-8 years a huge step forwards after that. Im all for it. Have a 20 year old doughty/bogosian and a 22 year old gagner, 23 cogs, etc. That will be our time to contend not next year or the year after. If joni signs here long term im all over it. If he doesnt i would look to move him at the draft.
Why? A "tough as nails" type guy would have been good pre lockout, but now puck moving d-men are at a premium and needed for success. Pitkanen is one of the best puck movers in the game. Replacing him with a "tough as nails" guy would make us a worse team.
If the deal was Penner for Frolov straight up I wouldn't hesitate to make that deal, but that wasn't the deal you proposed. Pitkanen and Penner does not equal Frolov.
Ya but we are a worse team afterwards.
Gilbert, Grebeshkov, and Smid are all good puck moving D-men. In reality we are not trading Pitkanen+Penner but the rights to Pitkanen. We don't have many options we can either put all our eggs in one basket and give Joni the long term 5+ million a year in which he is looking for or get something for him now. Based on what I saw last year I would stick with the latter. Joni has all the skill in the world but I question whether or not this skill will be brought on a regular basis. A Penner+ the rights to negotiate with Pitkanen for Frolov is a steal for us. IMO
Gilbert, Grebeshkov, and Smid are all good puck moving D-men. In reality we are not trading Pitkanen+Penner but the rights to Pitkanen. We don't have many options we can either put all our eggs in one basket and give Joni the long term 5+ million a year in which he is looking for or get something for him now. Based on what I saw last year I would stick with the latter. Joni has all the skill in the world but I question whether or not this skill will be brought on a regular basis. A Penner+ the rights to negotiate with Pitkanen for Frolov is a steal for us. IMO
If that's what you think than I'm not sure if you have seen Frolov's numbers or seen him play much. Or on the other hand seen Penner or Pitkanen play much. If that's what you think that's what you think, but you would probably struggle to find someone else on the Oiler board that agrees with you.
So if Joni doesnt want to sign long term here........then its not a huge step back at all. If your counting one year as a huge step back and 7-8 years a huge step forwards after that. Im all for it. Have a 20 year old doughty/bogosian and a 22 year old gagner, 23 cogs, etc. That will be our time to contend not next year or the year after. If joni signs here long term im all over it. If he doesnt i would look to move him at the draft.
Ok but if we are going with what ifs, what if Doughty or Bogosian won't sign with us at all and decide to go back into the draft or to UFA depending on their situation? We can what if till the cows come home if you like. But it doesn't win arguments.
The FACTS are that we already have Joni, we can sign him to another 1 year deal while controlling his rights after that, and he will play a far bigger role for an NHL team for the next few years(and possibly forever) in comparison to Doughty/Bogosian. A guy like Pitkanen isn't going to lose all his trade value if we keep him for another year to see what he can do. GMs will be more then willing to give a chance to a 25 yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind then, in much the same way GMs are willing to give a chance to a 24yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind now. So basically, little to lose, much to gain by keeping Joni, even on a one year deal.
Ok but if we are going with what ifs, what if Doughty or Bogosian won't sign with us at all and decide to go back into the draft or to UFA depending on their situation? We can what if till the cows come home if you like. But it doesn't win arguments.
The FACTS are that we already have Joni, we can sign him to another 1 year deal while controlling his rights after that, and he will play a far bigger role for an NHL team for the next few years(and possibly forever) in comparison to Doughty/Bogosian. A guy like Pitkanen isn't going to lose all his trade value if we keep him for another year to see what he can do. GMs will be more then willing to give a chance to a 25 yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind then, in much the same way GMs are willing to give a chance to a 24yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind now. So basically, little to lose, much to gain by keeping Joni, even on a one year deal.
Unless Pitkanen says screw the NHL and goes back home to play. Big lose there.
Ok but if we are going with what ifs, what if Doughty or Bogosian won't sign with us at all and decide to go back into the draft or to UFA depending on their situation? We can what if till the cows come home if you like. But it doesn't win arguments.
The FACTS are that we already have Joni, we can sign him to another 1 year deal while controlling his rights after that, and he will play a far bigger role for an NHL team for the next few years(and possibly forever) in comparison to Doughty/Bogosian. A guy like Pitkanen isn't going to lose all his trade value if we keep him for another year to see what he can do. GMs will be more then willing to give a chance to a 25 yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind then, in much the same way GMs are willing to give a chance to a 24yo 6-3 puck mover who can skate like the wind now. So basically, little to lose, much to gain by keeping Joni, even on a one year deal.
Im not a big fan of moving Pitkanen. The only way I would move him is to get a top 3 pick. Thats the only way I move him.
If your going to sign him to 2 years and you keep him till the trade deadline you are going to get a package from another team. Not a top 3 pick.
If you sign him one year his stock drops. Teams will know that he is only 1 year from UFA. Pits doesnt really like NA. Didnt like philly, not sure on edmonton......
man, i really hope we can keep pitkanen, he was phenomenal to watch during the season and if we can sign him long term, his name is going on the back of my jersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers
Im not a big fan of moving Pitkanen. The only way I would move him is to get a top 3 pick. Thats the only way I move him.
If your going to sign him to 2 years and you keep him till the trade deadline you are going to get a package from another team. Not a top 3 pick.
If you sign him one year his stock drops. Teams will know that he is only 1 year from UFA. Pits doesnt really like NA. Didnt like philly, not sure on edmonton......
man, thats like saying you would trade malkin for the first overall pick next year.. tavares.
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This is from his site--
we get to abuse the poster--sadly--we will have to use single syliable words and speak very slowly and not move to quickly--as that will cause his voices in his head to start to speak again
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If that's what you think than I'm not sure if you have seen Frolov's numbers or seen him play much. Or on the other hand seen Penner or Pitkanen play much. If that's what you think that's what you think, but you would probably struggle to find someone else on the Oiler board that agrees with you.
I would struggle to find someone who agrees that Frolov > Penner? I hardly doubt that. Anyways I respect your opinion and it will be interesting to see what happens with Joni.
man, i really hope we can keep pitkanen, he was phenomenal to watch during the season and if we can sign him long term, his name is going on the back of my jersey
man, thats like saying you would trade malkin for the first overall pick next year.. tavares.
I really want pits too. But yes I would trade Malkin for tavares. Espically if Malkin wants a big salary that you cant afford. Pick up tavares for 2 million. I wouldnt always do this, it just depends on the situation.We have all seen what the kids can do in the new NHL. Getzlaf, Perry, E Staal, Cam Ward, Vinny, Richards they all prove by winning the cup at the age of 24 or less and being big parts of there teams that you can win with youngsters. They dont have to be 29 or 30 years old any more. Espically the kids that are sucessful in Canada's national teams. They are already ahead of many.
