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Eklund - Pitkanen for Cammalleri possibility

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Old
06-04-2008, 07:13 PM
  #76
LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
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Does Torres, Greene, Roloson, First; sound like too much? too little?

Its about what I'd be willing to part with. Mixed emotions on the pick I guess.

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Old
06-04-2008, 07:31 PM
  #77
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The fear that I have in dealing Horcoff to L.A. is he's the exact type of player they need to get into the playoffs.

Leadership, tireless work ethic, can play in any situation, plays the hard minutes, etc.

L.A.'s had talent over the years no question, they've been missing guys like Horcoff to bring that all together though. And if they're in the playoffs it makes it tougher for us to get in. Though I suppose we could try to just wrap up our division.

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Old
06-04-2008, 08:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Krut View Post
Frolov does not equal Hemsky. Frolov's best season is 35 goals and 71 points with his average around 24 goals and 60 points. To give them Penner who will likely be one of the top power forwards in the NHL in a year or two as well as Pitkanen who has 45-55 point potential when healthy for Frolov is ludicrous.
right....since stats are everything -_-

frolov has size, plays defense, plays hurt and still makes a great contribution, is a GREAT personality.

pitkanen refuses to play with even the slightest injury. frolov is only one of two big forwards that the kings have(other being kopitar). Frolov is ALREADY being considered a veteran with this club, imo frolov is virtually just has untouchable as kopitar as of this moment.

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Old
06-04-2008, 08:16 PM
  #79
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Lowe missed a big opportunity to get a great defenseman for Chris Pronger...

He better not miss this one with Pitkanen. IMO, the only two choices are sign Pitkanen and keep him, or trade him somewhere in which the return is a top 2 defenseman.

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Old
06-04-2008, 08:25 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by metallicat View Post
Lowe missed a big opportunity to get a great defenseman for Chris Pronger...

He better not miss this one with Pitkanen. IMO, the only two choices are sign Pitkanen and keep him, or trade him somewhere in which the return is a top 2 defenseman.
amen

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06-04-2008, 08:54 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by metallicat View Post
Lowe missed a big opportunity to get a great defenseman for Chris Pronger...

He better not miss this one with Pitkanen. IMO, the only two choices are sign Pitkanen and keep him, or trade him somewhere in which the return is a top 2 defenseman.
I didnt hear. What great defencman did he pass up?

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06-04-2008, 08:58 PM
  #82
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First, I think that deal hurts us too much in the short term. That lineup is also banking a lot on us getting Redden. If we can't get a Pitkanen replacement like Redden or Campbell, we are a Souray shoulder away from lottery positions, imho. Unless we fluke out big time and the someone we take the 08 draft Gagners on us and makes the team and can play a big part. But what are the chances of that happening?
I for one don't think being a lottery team next year is a bad thing.

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
I read this not to long ago as a very good posibility. Coming from the GM. He actually said he would move the #2 pick for a established puck moving defencmen.
No he certainly did not..

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:04 PM
  #84
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Cammalleri wouldn't even make this team out of training camp.

Next.

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:06 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
To Edmonton: Cammalleri, 2nd Overall, Dallas' 1st Rounder, 2-2nd round picks
To LA: Pitkanen, Horcoff, Torres
Then sign Redden to a deal...

Cammalleri-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Stoll-Pisani
Nilsson-Cogliano-Schremp
Moreau-Brodziak-Pouliot

Redden-Souray
Gilbert-Grebeshkov
Staios-Smid
Greene

Garon
Roli/JDD

We'd probably miss the post season, but we'd be swimming in prospects soon after and we may have a guy with the 2nd overall pick that could play right now. Cammalleri and Ciogs are good friends, so maybe we could keep him there when his contract expires. The season after we'd be ready to make a big time playoff push.
and no playoffs....

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:07 PM
  #86
sweatypickle
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Cammalleri wouldn't even make this team out of training camp.

Next.
lol. no

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:35 PM
  #87
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From a Kings fan and a person who is in touch with the NHL I have to say that this thread is really off the wall. I mean, you guys slam Cammy for being a fa in a year when the same is said for Pitkanen. Also, you talk as if Pitkanen is an elite dman. He is not. He has regressed for years and there is a whole lot of bad opinions about him from NHL people. He is a headcase and a failure thus far. Cammy for Pitkanen may not be equal value all things considered, but for anyone to say that they will not take te second overall pick in the best draft in years should needs to read a paper or watch television outside of Canada.

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Old
06-04-2008, 09:39 PM
  #88
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From a Kings fan and a person who is in touch with the NHL I have to say that this thread is really off the wall. I mean, you guys slam Cammy for being a fa in a year when the same is said for Pitkanen.
Pitkanen is a UFA in 2 years not one.

But I agree with the sentiment that Pitkanen is NOT worth the #2 overall... which doesn't matter because trading him would be stupid - The Oilers don't need to get younger... younger == more suckage.


Last edited by voxel: 06-04-2008 at 10:13 PM. Reason: oops - I meant not worth...
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Old
06-04-2008, 09:59 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by metallicat View Post
Lowe missed a big opportunity to get a great defenseman for Chris Pronger...
.
can you tell us the last time a top 5 dman was traded for a top 5 dman?

can you tell us the last time a top 10 player was traded for a top 10 player? The only time that was even close was Hossa for Heatley but both guys had a ton of baggage at the time, neither was a top 10 guy in the league.

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Old
06-04-2008, 10:05 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Pitkanen is a UFA in 2 years not one.

But I agree with the sentiment that Pitkanen is worth the #2 overall... which doesn't matter because trading him would be stupid - The Oilers don't need to get younger... younger == more suckage.
I think Pitkanen is worth a heck of a lot more than just a #2 draft pick...if LA ponies up that I keep Joni and sign him to a 1-year contract and see what else is out there

I'm sick of seeing Lowe trading younger talent for even younger prospects

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Old
06-04-2008, 10:06 PM
  #91
metallicat
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Originally Posted by Sammy View Post
I didnt hear. What great defencman did he pass up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
can you tell us the last time a top 5 dman was traded for a top 5 dman?

can you tell us the last time a top 10 player was traded for a top 10 player? The only time that was even close was Hossa for Heatley but both guys had a ton of baggage at the time, neither was a top 10 guy in the league.
I don't have an answer for either of you guys. I'm just saying that we probably had a top 2 or 3 defenseman in the world with Chris Pronger. He was traded for next to squat on the back end. It's just my opinion that it would be a waste to trade Pitkanen now, if you can't get a top pairing defenseman in return.

I realize it's next to impossible to get trades like Heatley for Hossa, but if that can't happen, I don't want to see Pitkanen traded.

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Old
06-04-2008, 10:16 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
I think Pitkanen is worth a heck of a lot more than just a #2 draft pick...if LA ponies up that I keep Joni and sign him to a 1-year contract and see what else is out there

I'm sick of seeing Lowe trading younger talent for even younger prospects
Definitely trading real players for prospects is why the Kings are second last in the league.

Sorry, I edited my previous post. I think Pitkanen is probably worth a top-10 pick... maybe top-5, but not #2 per se only because of his past contract issues + injury history.

Cammy has exactly the same issues but he's a forward so his trade value is lower and he's not a bonafide 1st liner to me.

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Old
06-04-2008, 10:44 PM
  #93
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He only scored 26 points last year. ES or not, that's not very good.
So?

Does that mean GMs won't see what he has done in previous years, at a younger age?

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06-04-2008, 11:01 PM
  #94
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Definitely trading real players for prospects is why the Kings are second last in the league.

Sorry, I edited my previous post. I think Pitkanen is probably worth a top-10 pick... maybe top-5, but not #2 per se only because of his past contract issues + injury history.

Cammy has exactly the same issues but he's a forward so his trade value is lower and he's not a bonafide 1st liner to me.
Top 10 seems fairly reasonable to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
So?

Does that mean GMs won't see what he has done in previous years, at a younger age?
I'm sure they will, and then they'll wonder why he's been regressing ever since. I wonder if they'll check with scouts, or maybe even Holmgren or Hitch to find out what happened.

I know I've a theory posed by Flyer fans (even before the trade) that said Pitkanan's good year were the result of padded stats playing on the PP with Forsberg, and that once Forsberg left, Pitkanen's offensive game disppeared. I don't know if they're right, but if that's true it would explain a lot.

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06-04-2008, 11:20 PM
  #95
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I'm sure they will, and then they'll wonder why he's been regressing ever since. I wonder if they'll check with scouts, or maybe even Holmgren or Hitch to find out what happened.

I know I've a theory posed by Flyer fans (even before the trade) that said Pitkanan's good year were the result of padded stats playing on the PP with Forsberg, and that once Forsberg left, Pitkanen's offensive game disppeared. I don't know if they're right, but if that's true it would explain a lot.
As a 20 year old, Pitkanen put up 8 goals and 27 points. 10 of them on EV

As a 22 year old, Pitkanen put up 13 goals, 46 points in 57 games, +22 rating. 26 of those points were on EV.

As a 23 year old, Pitkanen put up 43 points in 77 games (3rd in team scoring). 23 of those points were on EV.

As a 24 year old, Pitkanen put up 26 points in 63 games, a -5 rating on a poor 5 on 5 team. 15 of those points were on EV.

Comparisons around the league:
Chris Pronger - only 12 of his 43 points were on EV
Scott Neidermayer - only 8 of his 25 points were on EV
Phaneuf - 26 of his 60 points were on EV
Zubov - 17 out of his 35 points on EV
Andrei Markov - 23 out of his 58 points on EV

Clearly Pitkanen has demonstarted he can provide production on EV. An absolute ridiculous notion put forth by Flyers fans that he leeched off Forsberg.

Admittingly, he doesn't do much with the man advantage. His PP/60 rates leave room for improvement. At the same time, he was only 24 years old. He deserves more leeway, and he's a very talented young defenceman that will only continue to get better.

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Old
06-04-2008, 11:33 PM
  #96
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My point remains - Pitkanen is not a proven commodity. You need more than one good year before you can get that label. Add in his contract situation and a not so great reputation around the league and you have a player with more than his share of warts. Talent aside, I wouldn't trade the #2 pick for a guy like that.

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Old
06-04-2008, 11:35 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
I know I've a theory posed by Flyer fans (even before the trade) that said Pitkanan's good year were the result of padded stats playing on the PP with Forsberg, and that once Forsberg left, Pitkanen's offensive game disppeared. I don't know if they're right, but if that's true it would explain a lot.
Well if you look at Joni's stats from Philly he has had over 50% of his points at Even Strength. His big year with Forsberg on the PP had him collecting 19 PP points out of a total of 46 points.

Then the next season when Forsberg was injured often and then traded away at the deadline. Pitkanen had 43 points with only 18 coming on the PP. It would seem Forsberg hardly being around his last year in Philly produced no difference in his PP production.

So let us examine it further. Before the trade deadline with Forsberg on team before the trade. Pitkanen had 28 points in 52 games. Then after the deadline deal without Forsberg on the team Pitkanen collected 15 points in 25 games.

It would appear looking at that his production stayed steady and showed no change after Forsberg was traded away.

Looking at that it would appear that theory does not seem to hold much water.

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Old
06-04-2008, 11:37 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
My poit remains - Pitkanen is not a proven commodity. You need more than one good year before you can get that label. Add in his contract situation and a not so great reputation around the league and you have a player with more than his share of warts. Talent aside, I wouldn't trade the #2 pick for a guy like that.
I wouldn't either, but that has to do with the fact that a talented young player in the top 5 typically provides excellent value in the entry contract. If I wanted to win within the next 3 years, I would consider that deal

There are no guarantees the 2nd/3rd overall pick will be better than Pitkanen.

As for proven commodity - growing pains. Pitkanen has demonstrated ability to put up points on the boards at a very young age. He's still got a way to go before he reaches his prime.

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Old
06-04-2008, 11:48 PM
  #99
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From a Kings fan and a person who is in touch with the NHL I have to say that this thread is really off the wall. I mean, you guys slam Cammy for being a fa in a year when the same is said for Pitkanen. Also, you talk as if Pitkanen is an elite dman. He is not. He has regressed for years and there is a whole lot of bad opinions about him from NHL people. He is a headcase and a failure thus far. Cammy for Pitkanen may not be equal value all things considered, but for anyone to say that they will not take te second overall pick in the best draft in years should needs to read a paper or watch television outside of Canada.
i think Camy is getting 'slammed' because we have a midget 2nd line of cogliano\gagner and nilsson. we just cant afford another small player.

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06-04-2008, 11:58 PM
  #100
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i think Camy is getting 'slammed' because we have a midget 2nd line of cogliano\gagner and nilsson. we just cant afford another small player.
Yup. That and the Oilers are not really looking for a forward, unless it someone too good to pass up. I'd make the trade straight up with Pitkanen if it were Dustin Brown coming back.

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