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Old
06-05-2008, 05:31 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Kamus View Post
I thought the NHL could have been on ESPN but Versus offered more money.
I believe ESPN offered the same deal that NBC has.

No up front money...just a split of ad revenue.

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06-05-2008, 07:11 PM
  #27
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I returned from Seattle last week with a story that seems fitting here.

My girlfriend and I checked out games 1 and 2 of the series between the Mariners and Red Sox (saw Manny hit 499!). While we were at the game, some guys thought we were sitting in their seats, we weren't but we ended up talking anyway. When I told them we were from Edmonton, they said that was cool and talked about the Oilers. They asked if Raffi had a future here, thinking he just had a bad run and is ready to break out. They expressed sorrow over our gut-punch from Pronger.

Seattle! They don't have an NHL team. Not sure how big the Thunderbirds are there, but they can't be that big.

As well, when I went to Vegas over New Years a taxi driver, born and raised in Nevada, talked to me about his love of the Leafs. No lie.

I think Americans get it to a degree. The little things that the NHL's done to alienate us has alienated them as well. Combined there are probably just as many American fans as Canadian fans, some just as rabid, who feel put off by the sport as much as we do. As well, they have options. Would we have the cash to support the Oilers if we had other options?

Bettman has screwed this game. The fervent passion behind the games is missing in many markets. People in both the US and Canada watch Premiere Soccer matches at the most inconvenient hours imaginable. And they are taken back by this sea of fans who create this intense atmosphere. Take those teams, put them in half full stadiums with lackluster fans and it kills the atmosphere. That's what Bettman has allowed to happen.

This isn't just a pro-Canada chant. I think the NHL could work in Oklahoma City. They used to sell out 17000 for minor pro hockey games. Kansas might not be a bad place. And after talking to those guys in Seattle it might not be too shabby there either.

But kill these welfare case teams that don't add anything to the league.

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06-05-2008, 07:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by CanmoreMike View Post
I returned from Seattle last week with a story that seems fitting here.

My girlfriend and I checked out games 1 and 2 of the series between the Mariners and Red Sox (saw Manny hit 499!). While we were at the game, some guys thought we were sitting in their seats, we weren't but we ended up talking anyway. When I told them we were from Edmonton, they said that was cool and talked about the Oilers. They asked if Raffi had a future here, thinking he just had a bad run and is ready to break out. They expressed sorrow over our gut-punch from Pronger.

Seattle! They don't have an NHL team. Not sure how big the Thunderbirds are there, but they can't be that big.

As well, when I went to Vegas over New Years a taxi driver, born and raised in Nevada, talked to me about his love of the Leafs. No lie.

I think Americans get it to a degree. The little things that the NHL's done to alienate us has alienated them as well. Combined there are probably just as many American fans as Canadian fans, some just as rabid, who feel put off by the sport as much as we do. As well, they have options. Would we have the cash to support the Oilers if we had other options?

Bettman has screwed this game. The fervent passion behind the games is missing in many markets. People in both the US and Canada watch Premiere Soccer matches at the most inconvenient hours imaginable. And they are taken back by this sea of fans who create this intense atmosphere. Take those teams, put them in half full stadiums with lackluster fans and it kills the atmosphere. That's what Bettman has allowed to happen.

This isn't just a pro-Canada chant. I think the NHL could work in Oklahoma City. They used to sell out 17000 for minor pro hockey games. Kansas might not be a bad place. And after talking to those guys in Seattle it might not be too shabby there either.

But kill these welfare case teams that don't add anything to the league.
It has always been a mystery to me why Seattle doesn't have an NHL team over places like Tampa Bay, Nashville, Phoenix and Atlanta.

http://www.seattlehockey.net/

There have been pro hockey teams there in the past and the corporate sector (can you spell Microsoft among many others) is awash in money.

They also would have a natural rivalry with Vancouver and the other west coast teams.

Maybe it's too logical.

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06-05-2008, 08:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
It has always been a mystery to me why Seattle doesn't have an NHL team over places like Tampa Bay, Nashville, Phoenix and Atlanta.

http://www.seattlehockey.net/

There have been pro hockey teams there in the past and the corporate sector (can you spell Microsoft among many others) is awash in money.

They also would have a natural rivalry with Vancouver and the other west coast teams.

Maybe it's too logical.
I believe that there hasn't been any interest from any substantial ownership to put a team there.

But yes it makes perfect sense

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06-05-2008, 10:29 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I believe ESPN offered the same deal that NBC has.

No up front money...just a split of ad revenue.
I hate to quote Mr. Bob again (I've done that too much lately ), but according to him, Versus is a subsidiary of Comcast, the cable station owned by the Flyers, and the deal Bettman signed with Versus was a kickback to Ed Snider for supporting the lockout. I haven't checked into it though... Bob makes bombastic statements like that all the time and it's a chore to sort through what's real and what's him trying to provide us with "good radio."

Anyway, is the NHL coming back to ESPN, because I listened to ESPN radio today (first time in about a year), and it was unbelievable how over the top their announcers were in their NHL lovefest.

I used to listen to ESPN radio all the time, and after they lost the broadcasting rights the way they would treat the NHL was unbelievable, far beyond anything one could call professional. Firstly, they hardly ever hardly ever talked about the NHL, even during the playoffs. And when they did, the venom on the air was incredible, saying things like, "Nobody's watching NHL, nobody cares!" I have heard that ESPN, and in particular ESPN radio follows an agenda that suits their TV programming, so what I heard today made me wonder if maybe ESPN is coming back...

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06-05-2008, 11:46 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Asher View Post
I hate to quote Mr. Bob again (I've done that too much lately ), but according to him, Versus is a subsidiary of Comcast, the cable station owned by the Flyers, and the deal Bettman signed with Versus was a kickback to Ed Snider for supporting the lockout. I haven't checked into it though... Bob makes bombastic statements like that all the time and it's a chore to sort through what's real and what's him trying to provide us with "good radio."

Anyway, is the NHL coming back to ESPN, because I listened to ESPN radio today (first time in about a year), and it was unbelievable how over the top their announcers were in their NHL lovefest.

I used to listen to ESPN radio all the time, and after they lost the broadcasting rights the way they would treat the NHL was unbelievable, far beyond anything one could call professional. Firstly, they hardly ever hardly ever talked about the NHL, even during the playoffs. And when they did, the venom on the air was incredible, saying things like, "Nobody's watching NHL, nobody cares!" I have heard that ESPN, and in particular ESPN radio follows an agenda that suits their TV programming, so what I heard today made me wonder if maybe ESPN is coming back...
I think ESPN is starting to get it.

As an aside, I was just watching Craig Ferguson and he even brought up the Wings win.

For a Scottish talk show host based in LA...that's huge.

Tiger Woods can take a hike.

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06-06-2008, 12:05 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I read somewhere recently that, if you take out the appreciation in the Canadian dollar, NHL revenue has risen only 2 percent in the recent past.

That's not performance.

I hope the NHLPA screams bloody murder about Bettman's intransigence toward Canada when the time comes. It seems any old scalliwag can buy a team or a share in the U.S. but not anyone who wants to relocate to Canada.
Can you provide a link to that? I heard the Cdn. $ had an affect of 3.7%.

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06-06-2008, 12:16 AM
  #33
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Can you provide a link to that? I heard the Cdn. $ had an affect of 3.7%.
Sorry I can't but it was in Ron McLean's interview with Bettman during the finals. Bettman didn't dispute it, if that helps.

McLean was all over Bettman about the sad state of hockey south of the border but Bettman's was singing his Pollyanna tune.

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06-06-2008, 12:22 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Sorry I can't but it was in Ron McLean's interview with Bettman during the finals. Bettman didn't dispute it, if that helps.

McLean was all over Bettman about the sad state of hockey south of the border but Bettman's was singing his Pollyanna tune.
If there's one thing I love about McLean is that he really can lean into Bettman like no other.

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06-06-2008, 12:26 AM
  #35
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If there's one thing I love about McLean is that he really can lean into Bettman like no other.
McLean is the best sports journalist in the country bar none.

He knows his power but uses it judiciously...very admirable.

It's also admirable that you and I have agreed on two topics in two days.

Either hell has frozen over or you don't think Horcoff is a #1 centre.

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06-06-2008, 09:57 AM
  #36
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What a load of crap. The guy is a billionaire and has a huge ownership stake in one of the most successfull companies on the TSX and they wont let him buy a team because he wants to move it to Canada. In the US any crook willing to do some fraud will be approved to purchase...
Looks to me like Betteman just doesnt want to ruin his legacy of expansion into the US Sunbelt. Thats why he never admits anything is wrong.

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06-06-2008, 10:09 AM
  #37
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The Plot thickens:

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=566333

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06-06-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
"Nothing personal, Jim" says Gary, "we're just not going to give you the same deal we gave everyone else!"

I'll bet, though, that several owners got out their calculators when they found that Balsillie was offering a "significant premium" for the Nashville share. Money eventually talks!

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06-06-2008, 04:12 PM
  #39
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"Nothing personal, Jim" says Gary, "we're just not going to give you the same deal we gave everyone else!"

I'll bet, though, that several owners got out their calculators when they found that Balsillie was offering a "significant premium" for the Nashville share. Money eventually talks!
Astounding that the Nashville ownership group is falling apart and Bettman still won't listen.

I guess it'll take a franchise threatening to fold before he'll consider J.B.

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06-06-2008, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Astounding that the Nashville ownership group is falling apart and Bettman still won't listen.

I guess it'll take a franchise threatening to fold before he'll consider J.B.
me thinks Gary's hand is gonna be foreced when no one will pick up Boots one-third..

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06-06-2008, 10:47 PM
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Boots files for bankruptcy...Bettman is a 2 faced hypocrit...

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=569530

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06-06-2008, 11:15 PM
  #42
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I can't believe that some people actually think that Bettman has some kind of absolute control and the ultimate say over everything that happens in the NHL. HE is not some kind of absolute monarch or something. He works for the NHL owners and does what THEY want him to do.

The reason that J.P. most likely won't get a team are numerous and probably has more to do with territorial rights (involving perhaps the most influential team in the NHL) than it does with Bettman having some kind of vendetta against him.

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06-07-2008, 10:17 AM
  #43
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Boots files for bankruptcy...Bettman is a 2 faced hypocrit...

http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=569530
Because it's now a bankruptcy, it looks like the NHL has no say in the share sale - it's up to the trustee and bankruptcy court. The NHL, however, is working with the current Preds ownership group on an "anyone-but-Jim" solution. This is just starting to get interesting:

Sources said Balsillie might make such a pitch if he could inherit Del Biaggio's deal with the rest of the Nashville ownership group. It has been reported Balsillie was recently informed he would not receive the identical terms Del Biaggio did when he bought his share of the team.

Under terms of their arrangement, Balsillie could still pursue a majority or outright interest in another NHL team while owning a minority stake in the Predators. If Balsillie were to purchase another club, the Nashville owners would have to buy out his 27 per cent.


Asked if the league had any rights or ability to work with the trustee in determining who can buy Del Biaggio's share, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly replied in an e-mail: "As a result of a bankruptcy filing, the ultimate disposition of the asset will be in the hands, initially of the Trustee, but ultimately of the bankruptcy court. Everything the Trustee proposes to do will be subject to approval of the bankruptcy court."

One NHL source speculated Balsillie might buy the Del Biaggio share "just to put the heat on the NHL. The trustee has to turn Del Biaggio's assets into cash [for the creditors]. The NHL could be vulnerable."

Daly added that the NHL is "working with the Predators' current ownership group — not necessarily on a new investor, but on how Mr. Del Biaggio's interest in the Predators will be liquidated and dealt with going forward."


http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...rtsHockey/home

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06-07-2008, 10:48 AM
  #44
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I can't believe that some people actually think that Bettman has some kind of absolute control and the ultimate say over everything that happens in the NHL. HE is not some kind of absolute monarch or something. He works for the NHL owners and does what THEY want him to do.

The reason that J.P. most likely won't get a team are numerous and probably has more to do with territorial rights (involving perhaps the most influential team in the NHL) than it does with Bettman having some kind of vendetta against him.

not sure who JP is, but if you think Bettman has no influence or bias you are pretty naive. Its been publicly reported that up to 8 current ownership groups have approached Balsillie. plus, he had offered $238 million for the Preds. i cant see how either of those scenarios aren't favorable to current NHL owners save for the Leafs.

also, dont forget, there were rumblings that Bettman had cut a deal with Del Biaggio that for his involvement in teh Preds, he would be first in line for a KC franchise. Now Bettman just looks plain stupid (again) for not doing his homework on good old Boots.

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06-07-2008, 01:17 PM
  #45
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Now Bettman just looks plain stupid (again) for not doing his homework on good old Boots.
That would hardly be an exclusive club considering some of the people he is reported to have defrauded.

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06-07-2008, 02:09 PM
  #46
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So here's my question in all this. With a flux in ownership, although a minority share (27% I believe), how does this affect the Predator's internal salary cap with Suter and Weber up for RFA contract renewals.

Is this the time for KLowe to quietly mention an RFA offersheet on Weber to GM Poile while leaving a trade offer on the table?

Weber IMO is the real deal on the blueline. He'd be worth a ~6 million RFA offersheet if it came to it, which by the average league salary in 2009 should, should put it in the 2 1sts, 2nd and 3rd round pick compensation bracket.

I know alot of us are weary of sending another offersheet, But this is Shea Freaking Weber. He's worth it in spades.

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06-07-2008, 07:51 PM
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I like where you're thinking is going, Soli.

This is another example of a franchise in a prone position that we have to consider leveraging for our own benefit. While I don't like the idea of another offer sheet, I do like the idea of trying to swing a trade that would include one of our current, established players, a prospect of two and some draft picks.

We already have too many bodies at the moment - we shouldn't add another while ridding ourselves of useful future assets.

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06-07-2008, 11:20 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
It has always been a mystery to me why Seattle doesn't have an NHL team over places like Tampa Bay, Nashville, Phoenix and Atlanta.

http://www.seattlehockey.net/

There have been pro hockey teams there in the past and the corporate sector (can you spell Microsoft among many others) is awash in money.

They also would have a natural rivalry with Vancouver and the other west coast teams.

Maybe it's too logical.
Why do you always attack these locations.

1-Tampa Bay has great hockey fans and is one of the best gate draws in NHL>
2-Atlanta does ok and its fan base is growing despite the futility of the Thrasher for all but 1 year. Also I would argue that Atlanta didn't deserve to have the Flames taken away. They were growing hockey there and had good attendance for the time.
3-Phoenix was a success when they had Thaczuk, Roenick, Etc. The fans were excited about them. Then ownership sent all the fan favorites away and hasn't fielded a good team in years.

And why do people always bring up Carolina. The Hurricanes have a good fan base that has grown each year they have been in Raleigh. Hurricanes are an example of building a fan base in a non-traditional market.

Why do people in Canada always demand a fans in southern cities lose there team and then complain in other threads about how fans in Winnipeg and Quebec City had there team taken from them.

And by the way the reason that Seattle doesn't have a hockey team is because

1-Key Arena has always been a dump and is horrible for hockey.
2-No ownership groups or interest to bring team to NHL
3-No plans for city to build a new arena any time in the next decade.

If Canada wants another team then wait till the next expansion. If the Players Union wants another team that's were it will be.

And Gary Bettman is not blocking Balsille from buying a team. The Board of Governors doesn't want anything to do with him. He has already alienated several owners such as Lemieux who wont accept him as an owner.

Let me ask you this! How did it feel when the Oilers were almost moved? Because that is how it feels to be a Preds fan right now. They may not be the most knowledgable about hockey given how many never saw hockey until Preds came to Nashville but they love the Preds. They are good fans and as a Hawks fan i dont want to see them lose there team.


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 06-07-2008 at 11:26 PM.
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06-07-2008, 11:40 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post

It's also admirable that you and I have agreed on two topics in two days.

Either hell has frozen over or you don't think Horcoff is a #1 centre.
Well, sometimes 2 out of 3 isn't bad right?

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06-08-2008, 02:23 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Why do you always attack these locations.

1-Tampa Bay has great hockey fans and is one of the best gate draws in NHL>
2-Atlanta does ok and its fan base is growing despite the futility of the Thrasher for all but 1 year. Also I would argue that Atlanta didn't deserve to have the Flames taken away. They were growing hockey there and had good attendance for the time.
3-Phoenix was a success when they had Thaczuk, Roenick, Etc. The fans were excited about them. Then ownership sent all the fan favorites away and hasn't fielded a good team in years.

And why do people always bring up Carolina. The Hurricanes have a good fan base that has grown each year they have been in Raleigh. Hurricanes are an example of building a fan base in a non-traditional market.

Why do people in Canada always demand a fans in southern cities lose there team and then complain in other threads about how fans in Winnipeg and Quebec City had there team taken from them.

And by the way the reason that Seattle doesn't have a hockey team is because

1-Key Arena has always been a dump and is horrible for hockey.
2-No ownership groups or interest to bring team to NHL
3-No plans for city to build a new arena any time in the next decade.

If Canada wants another team then wait till the next expansion. If the Players Union wants another team that's were it will be.

And Gary Bettman is not blocking Balsille from buying a team. The Board of Governors doesn't want anything to do with him. He has already alienated several owners such as Lemieux who wont accept him as an owner.

Let me ask you this! How did it feel when the Oilers were almost moved? Because that is how it feels to be a Preds fan right now. They may not be the most knowledgable about hockey given how many never saw hockey until Preds came to Nashville but they love the Preds. They are good fans and as a Hawks fan i dont want to see them lose there team.
As much as I can feel for fans in Nashville, Atlanta and Phoenix, there just aren't enough of them.

Here's another take on it from one of Edmonton's local columnists:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Sports/Co...09851-sun.html

You're right about the Seattle situation but at some point, someone may step up if the NHL would stop trying to shoe horn franchises into markets with spotty interest and/or hockey history,

Seattle has had lots of both in the past.

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