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06-02-2008, 03:59 PM
  #1
Ace2008
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lines for 2009

assuming Jokinen and jbo stay

what do our lines look like for next season?

(I know Olli rumors persist but I think that he should stay unless a power Defender like Shea Weber is coming the other way)

depth charts?

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06-02-2008, 04:39 PM
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Depends on if Matthias makes the team or not. Assuming he does, this is what I think they look like:

Booth-Weiss-Horton
Jokinen-Matthias-Olesz
McLean-Kreps-Zednik
Campbell-Stumpel-Belak

Peltonen and Dvorak may be bought out or traded. Kilger may very well retire. Martin also said he wants to add a gritty role player to the forward lines.

Skrastins-Bouw
Allen-UFA puck moving defenseman
Welch-Van Ryn

Cullimore may be resigned, I'm not sure what my opinion is right now whether he gets resigned or not. Murphy gets traded at the draft for a pick.

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06-02-2008, 05:26 PM
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As good as the Booth, Weiss and Horton line is, they're not a top line yet. They're a superb second line, but we're in trouble if they're matching up against other team's top defenders night after night, because they'll wear down, especially Weiss. Olli needs to be first line, but I wouldn't want Matthias there unless he absolutely wins it outright.

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06-02-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
As good as the Booth, Weiss and Horton line is, they're not a top line yet. They're a superb second line, but we're in trouble if they're matching up against other team's top defenders night after night, because they'll wear down, especially Weiss. Olli needs to be first line, but I wouldn't want Matthias there unless he absolutely wins it outright.
They are pretty much our top line already. Martin was matching them up against other team's top lines strength vs. strength towards the end of the season anyway. If Jokinen is here next season, I doubt his line will be better than the Sunrise Xpress. He'll likely have Olesz on his line, and maybe Matthias if he makes the team. Otherwise, it'll be Zednik or McLean. We're not going to get a top six forward in UFA, there's not enough money after we get a puck moving defenseman. So the Sunrise Xpress will be our top line.

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06-02-2008, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Depends on if Matthias makes the team or not. Assuming he does, this is what I think they look like:

Booth-Weiss-Horton
Jokinen-Matthias-Olesz
McLean-Kreps-Zednik
Campbell-Stumpel-Belak

Peltonen and Dvorak may be bought out or traded. Kilger may very well retire. Martin also said he wants to add a gritty role player to the forward lines.

Skrastins-Bouw
Allen-UFA puck moving defenseman
Welch-Van Ryn

Cullimore may be resigned, I'm not sure what my opinion is right now whether he gets resigned or not. Murphy gets traded at the draft for a pick.
I like it except I'm not 100% sure on getting rid of Allen-Bouw...Allen is an assistant captain (most of the time) and he plays very well defensively which allows Bouw to be more offensive.

But yea line one and line two don't matter, line two can play the same min as line one and be better any game.

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06-02-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
I like it except I'm not 100% sure on getting rid of Allen-Bouw...Allen is an assistant captain (most of the time) and he plays very well defensively which allows Bouw to be more offensive.

But yea line one and line two don't matter, line two can play the same min as line one and be better any game.
I feel comfortable with either Skrastins-Bouw or Allen-Bouw. Idk really which will be the top pairing, but I'm sure the new coach will experiment with both at some point during the season.

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06-03-2008, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Depends on if Matthias makes the team or not. Assuming he does, this is what I think they look like:

Booth-Weiss-Horton
Jokinen-Matthias-Olesz

McLean-Kreps-Zednik
Campbell-Stumpel-Belak

Peltonen and Dvorak may be bought out or traded. Kilger may very well retire. Martin also said he wants to add a gritty role player to the forward lines.

Skrastins-Bouw
Allen-UFA puck moving defenseman
Welch-Van Ryn

Cullimore may be resigned, I'm not sure what my opinion is right now whether he gets resigned or not. Murphy gets traded at the draft for a pick.
I like the two lines switched. I was actually going to suggest this in another thread earlier too.

I would prefer to buy out Stumpel and keep dvorak. Dvo is much more important to us because he plays alot of PK minutes. Dvorak is also a faster skater then Stumpel which fits better in our lineup(We want fast skaters out there not slow ones).

IMO Cullimore was our best acquisition last year besides Skrastins. JM should resign him. He really played great for us and there is still a question mark on how Van Ryn will play coming back. I would like to keep Murphy as a depth move in case of injuries. He really contributed to our PP and was our best guy at keeping the puck in the zone at the blueline at the start of the season. I think that injury really slowed him down. I think he still deserves a chance and we shouldn't give him up just for a pick.

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06-03-2008, 09:44 AM
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see I just don't agree with the idea here that we can do with todays offense. I think one more top-6 forward should come before a big name puck-moving D-guy (unless JM knows Bo won't sign and just hasn't informed us yet). While I agree we def need one, it doesn't have to be a 5-6 million dollar player. Money needs to be put into a top 6 winger (4 million dollar guy) who can play along side Olli and a kid (either olesz or Matthias) because Olli cannot be asked to produce with 2 kids whom, while they might be future top-6 players, aren't today.

The lines need to be:

Winger-Olli- Olesz OR Winger-Matthias-Olli
Sunrise Xpress
Mclean-Kreps-Zed or Olesz-Kreps-Zed
Mclean-Campbell-Belak or Dvo-Campbell-Belak

Matthias's development determines whether or no Dvo gets a permanent spot, and Pelt is a rotation player or traded. Stumpy and Kilger need to be dropped however possible

Bo- Skrats/Allen
Skrats/Allen- VR/Puck mover/Culli
2 of welch/VR/Culli/ Puck mover
Monty

D-lines depend on how good the puck mover is, and either way we have extra. Someone gets traded

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06-03-2008, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
see I just don't agree with the idea here that we can do with todays offense. I think one more top-6 forward should come before a big name puck-moving D-guy (unless JM knows Bo won't sign and just hasn't informed us yet). While I agree we def need one, it doesn't have to be a 5-6 million dollar player. Money needs to be put into a top 6 winger (4 million dollar guy) who can play along side Olli and a kid (either olesz or Matthias) because Olli cannot be asked to produce with 2 kids whom, while they might be future top-6 players, aren't today.

The lines need to be:

Winger-Olli- Olesz OR Winger-Matthias-Olli
Sunrise Xpress
Mclean-Kreps-Zed or Olesz-Kreps-Zed
Mclean-Campbell-Belak or Dvo-Campbell-Belak

Matthias's development determines whether or no Dvo gets a permanent spot, and Pelt is a rotation player or traded. Stumpy and Kilger need to be dropped however possible
Bo- Skrats/Allen
Skrats/Allen- VR/Puck mover/Culli
2 of welch/VR/Culli/ Puck mover
Monty

D-lines depend on how good the puck mover is, and either way we have extra. Someone gets traded
Agree we need a top 4 Winger to play with Olli but don't think JM will address this in FA. More likely through a trade.

Stumpel will almost definately be bought out(Hopefully). Kilger I am not sure. He is a good player and can help this team but he has to be here to do that.

Monty won't resign with us because JM won't pay what he is asking.

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06-03-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
I like the two lines switched. I was actually going to suggest this in another thread earlier too.

I would prefer to buy out Stumpel and keep dvorak. Dvo is much more important to us because he plays alot of PK minutes. Dvorak is also a faster skater then Stumpel which fits better in our lineup(We want fast skaters out there not slow ones).

IMO Cullimore was our best acquisition last year besides Skrastins. JM should resign him. He really played great for us and there is still a question mark on how Van Ryn will play coming back. I would like to keep Murphy as a depth move in case of injuries. He really contributed to our PP and was our best guy at keeping the puck in the zone at the blueline at the start of the season. I think that injury really slowed him down. I think he still deserves a chance and we shouldn't give him up just for a pick.
IMO it's not worth it to buy out Stumpel. It's going to cost too much money over the next two years to buy out the final year of his contract. Just keep him, as a 4th line center he's not bad at all. It's easier to buy out Peltonen and Dvo. Kreps has essentially replaced Dvo on the PK, he's not as important to us IMO as he was early in the season. There were rumors Martin was trying to trade him at the deadline also, so he may not feel he's that important to the team anymore either.

I agree Cullimore should probably be resigned, but I'm not sure he will be. He's going to want a considerable raise, and with Martin wanting to bring in a puck-moving defenseman, then you are faced with either sitting Cully or Ryno(who makes 2.9 mil) out every game if the blueline stays healthy. It might be more "cap smart" to sign a cheap 7th defenseman who could potentially push Ryno and keep him on his edge. It depends IMO on what moves we make this summer and how much Cohen wants to spend. I can see Cully asking for 1.5 or even more. Murphy, I think if he can be traded, will be. His defensive shortcomings were glossed over by his good offensive production early in the season, but after he came back and wasn't producing, I think Martin got a glimpse of how bad he is when he isn't putting up numbers. We could keep him as the 7th or 8th d-man, but we're going to have a lot of forwards on the roster, and I just don't think there's room.

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06-03-2008, 11:54 AM
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I know I am in the minority in saying this, but I am fine with getting the winger through a trade, and in fact would prefer that. If we can package like Stumpy, a d-man (I am sorry we just have too many my post just had 4 guys (no including Monty b/c you are right I remember hearing now that he is gone) competing for 2 spots), and a young player (here is where I'll get burned by you guys) like Kreps or Olesz to bring in a 4 million dollar winger. What this does, is solve the problem my lines had of where a person like Pelt plays if we have Matthias up with the big club

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06-04-2008, 09:40 AM
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Van Ryn must be our #2 or #3 dman if he's stuck on the 3rd d pair he makes way too much to what he can go out there

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06-04-2008, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
Van Ryn must be our #2 or #3 dman if he's stuck on the 3rd d pair he makes way too much to what he can go out there
I just wish we could get rid of Van Ryn and pick up a real dman, or a forward. VR is continually nothing but a liability.

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06-05-2008, 11:29 AM
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We have 26 forwards who either had NHL ice-time last season or have a strong chance of getting ice-time this season.

Jokinen, Horton, Weiss, Booth, McLean, Zednik, Olesz, Kreps, Stumpel, Pelts, Campbell, Dvorak, Glass, Kilger, Belak, Matthias, Larman, Brine, Stewart, Meyer, Murray, Globke, Frolik, McArdle and Repik.

In other words, I highly doubt Martin signs any forwards this season.

With that being said, I think that the lines at the beginning next season look something like this:

McLean Jokinen Olesz
Booth Weiss Horton
Zednik Kreps Dvorak
Kilger Campbell Belak

Of course, these are not set in stone and, except for the 'Sunrise Express,' lines will likely be juggled all around. This is also assuming Stumpel and Peltonen are gone, which I think would be a benefit to the team both on the ice (Stumpel) and against the salary-cap (Pelts).

Defense should look like this:

Bouwmeester Puck-moving defenseman
VanRyn Allen
Skrastins Welch
Murphy

Six bona-fide NHLers plus one 'puck-moving defenseman' Martin has promised us equals Jason Cullimore and Steve Montador are free-agents. Which really sucks in my eyes as Cullimore was a solid D-man and Monty was a versatile, gritty, contributor both up front and on D.

Goalies are Vokoun and Anderson.

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06-06-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
We have 26 forwards who either had NHL ice-time last season or have a strong chance of getting ice-time this season.

Jokinen, Horton, Weiss, Booth, McLean, Zednik, Olesz, Kreps, Stumpel, Pelts, Campbell, Dvorak, Glass, Kilger, Belak, Matthias, Larman, Brine, Stewart, Meyer, Murray, Globke, Frolik, McArdle and Repik.

In other words, I highly doubt Martin signs any forwards this season.

With that being said, I think that the lines at the beginning next season look something like this:

McLean Jokinen Olesz
Booth Weiss Horton
Zednik Kreps Dvorak
Kilger Campbell Belak

Of course, these are not set in stone and, except for the 'Sunrise Express,' lines will likely be juggled all around. This is also assuming Stumpel and Peltonen are gone, which I think would be a benefit to the team both on the ice (Stumpel) and against the salary-cap (Pelts).

Defense should look like this:

Bouwmeester Puck-moving defenseman
VanRyn Allen
Skrastins Welch
Murphy

Six bona-fide NHLers plus one 'puck-moving defenseman' Martin has promised us equals Jason Cullimore and Steve Montador are free-agents. Which really sucks in my eyes as Cullimore was a solid D-man and Monty was a versatile, gritty, contributor both up front and on D.

Goalies are Vokoun and Anderson.

the problem with this again is that this is the assumption that its a big time puck moving d-man, 1st pairing material. I vote we dont get one that high, bc look at the offense. You showed us numbers, but lets examine.

If Stumpy and Pelt are gone-2
Belak and Murray were brought in for the same purpose...so only one will play-1
Larman, Brine, Stewy, Meyer, McArdle and Globke are not NHL ready today-6
Matthias, Frolik, and Repik are either all going to be AHL, or 2 will be- 2 or 3

That leaves us with 12 or 13 forwards, which are the ones who can play big club level on a day to day basis, which is what we need to be thinking about, not how many forwards are in the system. I vote another forward

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06-06-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
the problem with this again is that this is the assumption that its a big time puck moving d-man, 1st pairing material. I vote we dont get one that high, bc look at the offense. You showed us numbers, but lets examine.

If Stumpy and Pelt are gone-2
Belak and Murray were brought in for the same purpose...so only one will play-1
Larman, Brine, Stewy, Meyer, McArdle and Globke are not NHL ready today-6
Matthias, Frolik, and Repik are either all going to be AHL, or 2 will be- 2 or 3

That leaves us with 12 or 13 forwards, which are the ones who can play big club level on a day to day basis, which is what we need to be thinking about, not how many forwards are in the system. I vote another forward
You also forgot he included Kilger, and he may not even report or ever play for the Panthers.

I personally won't speculate on our lineup until I see who's traded, who's bought out, who's contracts aren't renewed, who doesn't report, and which UFAs are signed. Too many variables to make an accurate guess at it at this point. Except that the second line will still be intact.

I know this is meaningless in reality, but I had to share this one: I started a new Eastside Hockey Manager season a few months ago, kinda back-shelved it in April, but picked it up again last weekend. 2008-09 is where I started. I was hovering around .500 and on the cusp of the playoffs most of the season, but then tanked toward the end of the season. So on deadline day (which is still mid-March in EHM) I dealt Olli in a deal for Frolov (don't recall exact details, I think it was three or four players changing hands and a 1st round pick going to Florida), then also dealt Dvorak and Zednik. I even forgot to add Frolov to my lines for three games and had the "Sunrise Express" as my top line, Matthias, Repik, and Frolik as my 3rd or 4th line, and went on from there. At the time I was 12 points out of the playoffs with 12 games or so remaining. I don't think I lost more than one game the rest of the season and finished out of the playoffs by 2 points after finishing on a 9-0-0-1 run. If I'd pulled the trigger sooner I could have managed a playoff run.

So even EHM thinks Olli should be dealt at this point

Personally, I'm still torn.

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06-06-2008, 04:32 PM
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psh I am in my 4th EHM season (which is 09-10 from where I began) and have a cup, and eastern conference finals, and a 2nd round elimination (that was the first year).

I've always been good at that kind of stuff though....my starting line is Olli, Horton, and Heatley .....booth never developed and now plays for the devils. I never got Matthias though, cause I started before we made that trade.

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06-06-2008, 08:18 PM
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the problem with this again is that this is the assumption that its a big time puck moving d-man, 1st pairing material. I vote we dont get one that high, bc look at the offense. You showed us numbers, but lets examine.

If Stumpy and Pelt are gone-2
Belak and Murray were brought in for the same purpose...so only one will play-1
Larman, Brine, Stewy, Meyer, McArdle and Globke are not NHL ready today-6
Matthias, Frolik, and Repik are either all going to be AHL, or 2 will be- 2 or 3

That leaves us with 12 or 13 forwards, which are the ones who can play big club level on a day to day basis, which is what we need to be thinking about, not how many forwards are in the system. I vote another forward
You can bet your bottom dollar that Martin will be pursuing a $4-6M puck moving defenseman this summer. Besides, a 2-3M guy woudn't do us much good. If you want a quality guy of that ilk, you gotta pay for it.

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06-06-2008, 09:33 PM
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You can bet your bottom dollar that Martin will be pursuing a $4-6M puck moving defenseman this summer. Besides, a 2-3M guy woudn't do us much good. If you want a quality guy of that ilk, you gotta pay for it.
I agree. Wade redden will be on the top of martins list . If he cant get him , look for J-m Liles , and possible long shot campbell to be sought after by martin . Orpik also i wouldnt mind having , we need a physical dmen.
People get made at JM for going after dmen , but they dont realize great defence leads to scoring goals . And its the dmen who get the puck to the fowards and if done well , better scoring chances are created. For example , Detroit red wings, need i say more.

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06-06-2008, 09:53 PM
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I agree. Wade redden will be on the top of martins list . If he cant get him , look for J-m Liles , and possible long shot campbell to be sought after by martin . Orpik also i wouldnt mind having , we need a physical dmen.
People get made at JM for going after dmen , but they dont realize great defence leads to scoring goals . And its the dmen who get the puck to the fowards and if done well , better scoring chances are created. For example , Detroit red wings, need i say more.
Once they get the puck to the forwards, and the forwards can't; do anything with it, then it's back into the defensive zone again until the defense get too tired of battling and wear down and give up goals. Andreas Lilja is a defensman on this great Detroit defense you mentioned. His forwards are incredible and have the puck in the offensive zone much of the time, causing less pressure and wear on the defense. It goes both ways. Defense can improve offense, but the offense needs to be capable to start with and I'm not so sure Stumpel, Campbell, Peltonen, Dvorak, etc... are capable.

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06-06-2008, 11:46 PM
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I agree. Wade redden will be on the top of martins list . If he cant get him , look for J-m Liles , and possible long shot campbell to be sought after by martin . Orpik also i wouldnt mind having , we need a physical dmen.
People get made at JM for going after dmen , but they dont realize great defence leads to scoring goals . And its the dmen who get the puck to the fowards and if done well , better scoring chances are created. For example , Detroit red wings, need i say more.
Exactly. The backbone of that team is their blueline. Yeah, they have great forwards, but they wouldn't even be close to the same team without all those great puck moving defensemen. That's really what makes them so great, and what limits other teams' scoring chances against them, their ability to move the puck quickly and efficiently up to the forwards and out of their own zone. Other teams really don't have a lot of good scoring opportunities in the Wings' zone, and it's very hard for other teams to retrieve the puck in Detroit's zone, their D are just so skilled and move the puck so quickly, there's little chance for opposing forwards to even get possession of it. This is exactly what they did to Pittsburgh, they frustrated their forwards with their puck possession game. They controlled that entire series, and it all starts with transition from the defense to the offense.

I'll even go further, look at the 4 semifinalists. Philly was the only team that didn't have a great transition defense. And with Timonen, Coburn, and Jones, it was probably better than average.

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06-06-2008, 11:54 PM
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Once they get the puck to the forwards, and the forwards can't; do anything with it, then it's back into the defensive zone again until the defense get too tired of battling and wear down and give up goals. Andreas Lilja is a defensman on this great Detroit defense you mentioned. His forwards are incredible and have the puck in the offensive zone much of the time, causing less pressure and wear on the defense. It goes both ways. Defense can improve offense, but the offense needs to be capable to start with and I'm not so sure Stumpel, Campbell, Peltonen, Dvorak, etc... are capable.
We need both. We need to improve our transition from defense to offense, and we also need more skill up front. But we only have money to address one need this summer. It seems as though Martin's philosophy is that we have lots of skill coming up to the forward ranks soon, and we don't have a lot of puck-moving promise from our defense coming up in the next year or so. So he will fill the defensive need this summer through UFA or trade. I can't say I disagree with him, makes sense.

Lilja isn't really a good example to use. He's their #6-7 d-man. I don't think Detroit is worried about him when they have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, and Lebda ahead of him. He's simply there to fill out the roster and is a good #6-7.

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06-09-2008, 03:22 PM
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psh I am in my 4th EHM season (which is 09-10 from where I began) and have a cup, and eastern conference finals, and a 2nd round elimination (that was the first year).

I've always been good at that kind of stuff though....my starting line is Olli, Horton, and Heatley .....booth never developed and now plays for the devils. I never got Matthias though, cause I started before we made that trade.
I improved Booth so he would develop - edited several Panthers to better reflect their playing abilities or projected upside. There's no Panther fans on the roster editing crew and Panthers prospects/rookies tend to get short shrift.

I also am playing without ridiculous trades. I acquired Frolov as I mentioned, and also Kyle Medvec from Minnesota (because he's a UVM player so I figured I'd pick him up). Trying to see what it would take to muscle this team into the playoffs per the sim's rules and the roster opinions of the fhockey guys. I ran a Calder Cup playoff and got the Panthers farm team into the third round before losing the Leafs' farmers. Now I'm looking to ditch Dan Travis and Magnus Johannsen to free agency while retaining Monty and Belak. Cullimore is retiring.

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06-09-2008, 10:31 PM
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What about the idea of going the UFA route for a winger, besides Hossa? Fedotenko, Brunette, Rolston, Ryder, Satan, Vyborny? Any of them interesting?

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06-09-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosehockey23 View Post
What about the idea of going the UFA route for a winger, besides Hossa? Fedotenko, Brunette, Rolston, Ryder, Satan, Vyborny? Any of them interesting?
Fedotenko isn't a bad player, but we have enough 3rd line types and we have a glut of forwards as it is. Brunette I think will be too pricey and we won't have enough money after we acquire a puck-moving d-man, if that d-man comes through UFA which it probably will. Rolston definitely falls into this category, besides I think Minnesota will push hard to re-sign him. Ryder, Satan, and Vyborny don't interest me at all. I think Vyborny signed with a Euro team anyway, didn't he?

It seems like Martin thinks Matthias is NHL ready. I don't anticipate him to put up huge point totals this year, but he will definitely be a nice contributor in terms of puck possession, driving the net, and playing a very responsible game and will be a big addition to the team. Sometimes it's not all about points, but what other things you contribute to the team. I go back to Sergei Kostitsyn as an example. He didn't put up a lot of points, but he was a vital part of the Habs lineup last year, and without him they are not the same team. I think Matthias can definitely have a similar influence on the Panthers.

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