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Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization

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Old
06-08-2008, 02:32 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Because thats the only person he wants to quote, to try and get his point across.
My thoughts exactly, especially since HE created the "end of Biggane's credibility thread, but...

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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Why are you still quoting Biggane? We have already established that he's a tool with no credibility.
this sums it up.


MB summed it up well, as did ZeroG. While we need offense, I think Matthias can benefit from playing with Olli if he's still here and perhaps Olesz or Zednik. Add in a solid puck mover who helps the transition, and our forwards are able to play their game better. As has been said, we had no transition game last season due to the puck being coughed up coming out of the zone.

I'd love to see a guy like Hossa here, but he's going to cost too much and a guy like Liles can help jumpstart the offense.

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06-08-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
My thoughts exactly, especially since HE created the "end of Biggane's credibility thread, but...



this sums it up.


MB summed it up well, as did ZeroG. While we need offense, I think Matthias can benefit from playing with Olli if he's still here and perhaps Olesz or Zednik. Add in a solid puck mover who helps the transition, and our forwards are able to play their game better. As has been said, we had no transition game last season due to the puck being coughed up coming out of the zone.

I'd love to see a guy like Hossa here, but he's going to cost too much and a guy like Liles can help jumpstart the offense.
Hossa here with same D-men we had here last year and we make the playoffs. We would have a legit 1st line and it'll make Jokinen a better player and lessen the burden on him. Its a 2 for 1 advantage in my book and in addition it would add some excitement on this team as other than the Weiss line this is a pretty boring team to watch. Redden is great and I'd love to have both of them but with Redden alone how are they supposed to outscore some of these teams with this lineup? This is the New NHL and this JM looks really stuck in the past and with JM looking for another clone of himself somewhere i just don't see it. Sounds like too many If's and many things going right to make the playoffs and Martin's clone whoever that will be i doubt will get this team over the hump w/ no help for Jokinen and a team filled with 3rd and 4th line talent other than Weiss's line.

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06-08-2008, 03:51 PM
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I think Biggane deserves some kind of award for writing in the same week articles using Eklund as a source and justifying an opinion by asking and quoting Rick Dudley. Perhaps we could have a naming contest for the Award?

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06-08-2008, 04:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
I think Biggane deserves some kind of award for writing in the same week articles using Eklund as a source and justifying an opinion by asking and quoting Rick Dudley. Perhaps we could have a naming contest for the Award?
The Bigganne Supports GP's Propaganda award???

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06-08-2008, 06:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Remember Martin's system is based on defense first (not unlike Minnesota). So preventing goals is of most importance to him. He's thinking, "we scored 216 goals which was only 7 less than Minnesota and 6 less than San Jose and they were playoff teams, we just need to cut down on our goals against and get int the plus side of goals differential (last season -10)." You dont have to agree with it but thats his basic thinking. Bring in a new coach that will continue that and help the transition game on defense, and JM believes he's got a playoff-caliber team. Is he right? Who knows (like many of you, I agree that he's wrong for not acquiring a forward) but you can see why he believes that at least.

Expecting Matthias, Repik or Frolik to fill a roster spot is not good but Matthias prob could handle it between the 3. The buyout period begins in one week so you will see a lot of changes going on around the league at that point, with new possible targets as well.
I respect your opinion, but you're a little off here. I underlined and bolded separate parts of your posts to show you how it seems you unconsciously contradicted yourself. Redden or another top end puck moving d-man wouldn't just be an addition to help the defense, it's also to help the offense. He is looking to improve the offense more than improve the defense with the addition of Redden or a guy like him. You even said it in the part I bolded, "bring in a new coach that will help the transition game on defense". That's exactly what Martin is trying to do. We have a few great offensive prospects coming up soon and Matthias has a great chance to make the team out of camp, but we don't have any puckmoving D prospects that are going to come up next season and address our needs there, unless Ellerby who is a real longshot to begin with comes up and has an mind-blowing rookie season, which ain't gonna happen. I don't understand how some Panther fans fail to realize how badly we need to improve our transition game as well as our skill among the forwards. We can't just ignore the transition problems from our blueline. Martin's plan addresses both of those needs. In today's NHL, transition defense isn't just "a nice thing to have, something extra that will give you an advantage over most other teams". It's vital. If you don't have it, you're not going to go anywhere. Again, as I said in another thread, look at the four semifinalists in this year's playoffs. Philly was the only team who didn't have a great transition defense, and they still probably had an above average one. That's really where every blueline in the NHL is headed.

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06-08-2008, 06:31 PM
  #31
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When exactly does it begin???
June 15-30

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06-08-2008, 06:35 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
The Bigganne Supports GP's Propaganda award???
Naw, that would be "THE BIGGANE SPEAKS THE TRUTH AWARD"

What I found hilarious was Biggane using Eklund as a source and then using quotes from Dudley to justify Martin's thinking as Florida GM . Now the part I believe that disheartens me is the direct quote from Martin,

"I don't know how much we'll be involved in free agency this year," he said. "It depends on how we fill our needs by other means. I feel really good about our goaltending situation, and we'll probably fulfill our needs at forward with the kids we have coming up.

"The defense we do need to improve, but whether that's through the draft, trades or free agents we'll see in the next three weeks.",

Which states his intention to do exactly what I feared, ignore the deficiencies of our forward corps but continue to build up our blueline since that is the only part of a team that he values enough to go out of his way to do something about.

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06-08-2008, 06:38 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by jrockett1096 View Post
Hossa here with same D-men we had here last year and we make the playoffs. We would have a legit 1st line and it'll make Jokinen a better player and lessen the burden on him. Its a 2 for 1 advantage in my book and in addition it would add some excitement on this team as other than the Weiss line this is a pretty boring team to watch. Redden is great and I'd love to have both of them but with Redden alone how are they supposed to outscore some of these teams with this lineup? This is the New NHL and this JM looks really stuck in the past and with JM looking for another clone of himself somewhere i just don't see it. Sounds like too many If's and many things going right to make the playoffs and Martin's clone whoever that will be i doubt will get this team over the hump w/ no help for Jokinen and a team filled with 3rd and 4th line talent other than Weiss's line.
Hossa will not come here anyway, forget about him. Look at his latest comments, he would take a paycut to stay with Pittsburgh because he wants to be on a contender. He knows he could get 7-8 mil on the open market elsewhere, but money isn't the most important thing to him right now. He basically forced Waddell to trade him because he didn't want to be in Atlanta anymore, he wanted to go to a contender at the deadline. He's not going to go to a team that's missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons. No way.

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06-08-2008, 06:49 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Naw, that would be "THE BIGGANE SPEAKS THE TRUTH AWARD"

What I found hilarious was Biggane using Eklund as a source and then using quotes from Dudley to justify Martin's thinking as Florida GM . Now the part I believe that disheartens me is the direct quote from Martin,

"I don't know how much we'll be involved in free agency this year," he said. "It depends on how we fill our needs by other means. I feel really good about our goaltending situation, and we'll probably fulfill our needs at forward with the kids we have coming up.

"The defense we do need to improve, but whether that's through the draft, trades or free agents we'll see in the next three weeks.",

Which states his intention to do exactly what I feared, ignore the deficiencies of our forward corps but continue to build up our blueline since that is the only part of a team that he values enough to go out of his way to do something about.
Your hatred of JM has totally clouded your judgement. He's not ignoring the deficiencies of our forward corps. He said openly that he will probably fill our needs at forward with the kids coming up. It's you that is ignoring our deficiencies in our transition game, and many other Panther fans pretending like it's not a big deal. I don't care what NHL one wants to use as an example, the old NHL, the new NHL, whatever. Offense starts from the blueline. That's something you learn early on in hockey as a kid. If you can't break out well from your own zone, your offense isn't going to be very good. You know how good Redden's breakout pass is? It's in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt. And in the NHL today, good transition from defense to offense is more important than ever before. You HAVE to have it if you want to be competitive.

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06-08-2008, 07:37 PM
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We're forgetting about Noah Welch as a puck moving defenseman possibly. He's been hurt but he has a lot of ability and he's much smarter now after watching the entire past season and learning at the NHL level. I think he's in a good position now if he comes to camp in great shape. He should be on the team come opening night as he's been solid whenever he's played.

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06-08-2008, 08:02 PM
  #36
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We're forgetting about Noah Welch as a puck moving defenseman possibly. He's been hurt but he has a lot of ability and he's much smarter now after watching the entire past season and learning at the NHL level. I think he's in a good position now if he comes to camp in great shape. He should be on the team come opening night as he's been solid whenever he's played.
Welch is definitely going to be a solid two-way puckmoving d-man for a long time in this league. He's without a doubt in the lineup on opening night as long as he's healthy. Some people, including Welch himself, might have been disappointed in Martin's decision to not play him in the final 2 games of the season, because he wanted him as healthy as he could be for next season. It was the right move. I think if everything goes as it should for him, he'll end up in our top 4 by the end of the season, probably replacing Skrastins.

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06-09-2008, 12:27 AM
  #37
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Hossa will not come here anyway, forget about him. Look at his latest comments, he would take a paycut to stay with Pittsburgh because he wants to be on a contender. He knows he could get 7-8 mil on the open market elsewhere, but money isn't the most important thing to him right now. He basically forced Waddell to trade him because he didn't want to be in Atlanta anymore, he wanted to go to a contender at the deadline. He's not going to go to a team that's missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons. No way.
I use Hossa because he looks like the best FA available but you can insert any name there as long as its legit 1st line talent / goal scorer. Not narrowing it just to Hossa but someone to help Jokinen and score some goals and have a legit 1st line not two 3rd line wingers and Jokinen. By the way all players say the same thing about staying is the 1st option and less money then they take off at the best offer in free agency. As far as I'm concerned hes up for grabs if anyone wants to pay his price. Not saying we should be the ones to pay it but he will go where the money is at the end and if someone offers 7 mill he probably will go anywhere losers or not. Though the Panthers haven't been to the playoffs in what 7 years we've been close the last 2 years finishing over .500 both times so were not horrendous just need a player or 2 to get over the hump. Don't see why we would be so unattractive a stop for a top free agent other than being cheap.

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06-09-2008, 08:22 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Your hatred of JM has totally clouded your judgement. He's not ignoring the deficiencies of our forward corps. He said openly that he will probably fill our needs at forward with the kids coming up. It's you that is ignoring our deficiencies in our transition game, and many other Panther fans pretending like it's not a big deal. I don't care what NHL one wants to use as an example, the old NHL, the new NHL, whatever. Offense starts from the blueline. That's something you learn early on in hockey as a kid. If you can't break out well from your own zone, your offense isn't going to be very good. You know how good Redden's breakout pass is? It's in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt. And in the NHL today, good transition from defense to offense is more important than ever before. You HAVE to have it if you want to be competitive.
Very well said. In the second half of the 06/07 season where IMO we played the best hockey the Panthers have played this decade, it all started in our zone. Our defense was solid defensively and did a great job initiating the offense and the results on the ice showed.

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06-09-2008, 08:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by jrockett1096 View Post
I use Hossa because he looks like the best FA available but you can insert any name there as long as its legit 1st line talent / goal scorer. Not narrowing it just to Hossa but someone to help Jokinen and score some goals and have a legit 1st line not two 3rd line wingers and Jokinen. By the way all players say the same thing about staying is the 1st option and less money then they take off at the best offer in free agency. As far as I'm concerned hes up for grabs if anyone wants to pay his price. Not saying we should be the ones to pay it but he will go where the money is at the end and if someone offers 7 mill he probably will go anywhere losers or not. Though the Panthers haven't been to the playoffs in what 7 years we've been close the last 2 years finishing over .500 both times so were not horrendous just need a player or 2 to get over the hump. Don't see why we would be so unattractive a stop for a top free agent other than being cheap.
Unless it's Hossa, I don't buy the argument that we can just ignore the problems with our transition defense and only address our needs at forward. I can't believe nobody remembers how pitiful we were coming out of our own zone last season. If one watched the playoffs, especially the four semifinalists, they'd have seen great transition defense jumpstarting offenses over and over and over again. Clean and crisp breakouts, not the disgusting display that we have to watch from the Panthers year in and year out in their own zone. Besides, I don't think we have the money for Hossa anyway.

As for the bolded part of your post, if that were the case, then Hossa wouldn't have forced Atlanta to trade him. He would have just taken the 7 mil Waddell offered him. But he wanted to go to a contender.

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06-09-2008, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Unless it's Hossa, I don't buy the argument that we can just ignore the problems with our transition defense and only address our needs at forward. I can't believe nobody remembers how pitiful we were coming out of our own zone last season. If one watched the playoffs, especially the four semifinalists, they'd have seen great transition defense jumpstarting offenses over and over and over again. Clean and crisp breakouts, not the disgusting display that we have to watch from the Panthers year in and year out in their own zone. Besides, I don't think we have the money for Hossa anyway.

As for the bolded part of your post, if that were the case, then Hossa wouldn't have forced Atlanta to trade him. He would have just taken the 7 mil Waddell offered him. But he wanted to go to a contender.
We'll see what he signs for. I think he wants best of both worlds but it won't happen. I'll bet he takes the best offer in the end and it wont be from cash poor Pittsburgh.

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06-09-2008, 11:33 PM
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We'll see what he signs for. I think he wants best of both worlds but it won't happen. I'll bet he takes the best offer in the end and it wont be from cash poor Pittsburgh.
Yep, we'll see.

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06-10-2008, 12:30 AM
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i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that we moved the puck best when we had belfour who could actually go behind the net and play the puck. he helped move the defense faster which is a problem most nights is we get beat in the corners.

not that this will change anything in the near future but just wanted to see what everyone else thought?

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06-10-2008, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by homegrizown View Post
i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that we moved the puck best when we had belfour who could actually go behind the net and play the puck. he helped move the defense faster which is a problem most nights is we get beat in the corners.

not that this will change anything in the near future but just wanted to see what everyone else thought?
Did he play without the trapezoid? Don't remember, but that might've been a factor. Though now that I think of it I'm pretty sure it was already in effect.

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06-10-2008, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by homegrizown View Post
i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that we moved the puck best when we had belfour who could actually go behind the net and play the puck. he helped move the defense faster which is a problem most nights is we get beat in the corners.

not that this will change anything in the near future but just wanted to see what everyone else thought?
I agree 100% with you.

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06-10-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by homegrizown View Post
i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that we moved the puck best when we had belfour who could actually go behind the net and play the puck. he helped move the defense faster which is a problem most nights is we get beat in the corners.

not that this will change anything in the near future but just wanted to see what everyone else thought?
That is very true and coincides with the period of time we played so well. Good point!

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Did he play without the trapezoid? Don't remember, but that might've been a factor. Though now that I think of it I'm pretty sure it was already in effect.
Yes, the trapezoid was there when he played for us.

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06-10-2008, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Your hatred of JM has totally clouded your judgement. He's not ignoring the deficiencies of our forward corps. He said openly that he will probably fill our needs at forward with the kids coming up. It's you that is ignoring our deficiencies in our transition game, and many other Panther fans pretending like it's not a big deal. I don't care what NHL one wants to use as an example, the old NHL, the new NHL, whatever. Offense starts from the blueline. That's something you learn early on in hockey as a kid. If you can't break out well from your own zone, your offense isn't going to be very good. You know how good Redden's breakout pass is? It's in the top 5 in the league, without a doubt. And in the NHL today, good transition from defense to offense is more important than ever before. You HAVE to have it if you want to be competitive.
You are spot on. JM has signed an extension as GM and, as a consequence, the Panthers are going to play a defensive style of hockey with the offense being generated through the transition game. To play that defensive style, we need to re-sign J-Bo (JM's number one priority), add a puck moving veteran (JM's number 2 priority) and hope either that Van Rynn recovers or Welch develops quickly.

BTW a shoot first center, like Jokinen, does not really fit that style of play.

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06-10-2008, 12:32 PM
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on the topic of defensive help, i came across this today:

Quote:
The Panthers, whose GM is Redden’s ex-Sens coach Jacques Martin, are “the front-runners” to sign Redden, according to Hornby, with the Leafs thought to be in a group of clubs including Chicago, Nashville and Philadelphia hanging around to see what transpires.
on http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com (which, btw, is a great hockey blog - for an american outlet at least - if you haven't yet checked it out).

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06-10-2008, 12:44 PM
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I'm wary of Redden considering he's proven that Chara was the real mainstay in that duo a few years ago. If anything I'd be hoping for Campbell, he really did turn that Sharks transition game into something lethal.

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06-10-2008, 12:59 PM
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I like the idea of getting Redden. It would make it almost a certainty that an overpaid MVR would be gone .. Pair him up with Scratch and leave Bouw with Allen .. That makes for two very good pairings with Welch and Cullimore or Murphy as the 5 and 6 guys since I don't see us keeping Monty for the money he wants..

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06-10-2008, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
I would rather lose every single game 7-6 than watch the ****ing trap for another 82 snoozefests.
You must not appreciate hockey then. A winning team is always more entertaining than a losing team. Watching a team absolutely dominant on the defensive end is just as good as seeing offensive magic. The Panther's problem isn't style but results.

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