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Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization

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Old
06-11-2008, 05:46 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
No, its just people here try to make the best of a situation and don't want to deal with reality. Our biggest problem was coaching. A coach has A LOT to do with our breakout. Also, our coach has a lot to do with our style of play which was way too passive. JM played a sit back/collapse obsessive D-style. If we were more aggressive and played more of a puck possession instead of always dumping the puck in we would leverage our best asset which was our powerplay. Unfortunately, we were 29th in the league in powerplay opportunities with a 6th ranked powerplay. Seems like an obvious ability we should be exploiting. But no, JM wants to talk about us having a problem with breakouts and a new puck moving d (keep in mind we WILL NOT sign Campbell unless we trade Bouw which is still unlikely) will cure this problem. He is about to hire a coach who will most likely be similar to him. This new coach will probably change our breakouts but will not change our style of play. You don't need top offensive talent to have a good powerplay. A lot of that is coaching, which was done by our assistants. The only good coaching this past season. Let JM convince you that a new puck moving d-man, say Liles for instance, will make a significant difference when this is just a pipe dream. We are in big trouble when we are thinking Liles will improve this team enough to make the playoffs.

Say what you want about a puck moving d-man who will transform our breakout. I see no problem with our d-men's passing abilities it has more to do with dumping the puck in 90% of the time. Our biggest problem is style of play not puck moving d-man of which we wont even get a top puck moving d-man.
Noone needs to convince me of anything and I live in the real world. You're not seeing the whole picture painted if you think that's all that is goign to change this team is Liles and that's all we're pining for.

There's a lot that factors into it: young kids play, players who were injured last year, how will we do without a however many games of Salei and hopefully Stumpel's poor play, the new coach, Belak's presence, Vokoun having played one season in the Eastern Conference, a puck mover, etc.

It's not JUST a puck mover, that's too short sighted. C'mon, you're a "hockey god," you have to look at the whole picture.

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06-11-2008, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Goals for 5 on 5 19th in the league
Goals against 5 on 5 16th in the league
Power play goals against 18th
Power play goals for 19th in the league while having the second fewest opportunities and the 6th best PP

hmmm....
We are a defensive team and I was comparing us to other defensive systems that made it into the playoffs (one being the Wild who were great this year). You compared us to the NHL (like different 20 offensive system) + we had one of the best powerplays in the league. Almost all year were were top-10

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06-11-2008, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Noone needs to convince me of anything and I live in the real world. You're not seeing the whole picture painted if you think that's all that is goign to change this team is Liles and that's all we're pining for.

There's a lot that factors into it: young kids play, players who were injured last year, how will we do without a however many games of Salei and hopefully Stumpel's poor play, the new coach, Belak's presence, Vokoun having played one season in the Eastern Conference, a puck mover, etc.

It's not JUST a puck mover, that's too short sighted. C'mon, you're a "hockey god," you have to look at the whole picture.
This thread is about Martin looking to improve the defense...

A puck mover is how he plans on improving the defense. I don't think that will do much for the team since it is not our biggest problem.

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06-11-2008, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
We are a defensive team and I was comparing us to other defensive systems that made it into the playoffs (one being the Wild who were great this year). You compared us to the NHL (like different 20 offensive system) + we had one of the best powerplays in the league. Almost all year were were top-10
We have to play in the NHL which has thirty teams. It is only fair to compare us to the entire league.

Our power play as I noted was 6th best. We should have been leveraging this ability by playing a style of game that draws more penalties. The Panther's had a legitimately good power play yet JM had no interest in leveraging this ability. Makes zero sense to me.

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06-11-2008, 07:18 PM
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We are a defensive team and I was comparing us to other defensive systems that made it into the playoffs (one being the Wild who were great this year). You compared us to the NHL (like different 20 offensive system) + we had one of the best powerplays in the league. Almost all year were were top-10
If you want to compare the Wild and Panthers
Panthers over 50 points
Olli Jokinen 71
Nathan Horton 62


Wild over 50 points
Marian Gaborik 83
Pierre-Marc Bouchard 63
Brian Rolston 59
Pavol Demitra 54

I think that says something about the difference in the teams top 6 depth, and the need for the panthers to acquire a top line player. Especially, if Olli is going to drop in production. After Horton is Weiss with only 42 points... To me the best defense has a great offense in addition to good defensemen. Look at the finals this year, Detroit dominated Pens offensively which lead to the difference in shot totals.

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06-11-2008, 07:22 PM
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I think it's comical how some people here think we dump the puck in so much because that's our game plan. We dump and chase because our breakouts suck and we don't have a lot of speed going through the neutral zone. Therefore, we are forced to dump it in a lot. If anyone thinks our breakouts were good last year, they're delusional. It doesn't matter who the next coach is, if we don't address the problems in our transition game, you will continue to see a lot of dump and chase from us. A guy like Redden changes things considerably. Anyone who thinks good transition defense isn't important obviously wasn't watching the playoffs. You have Bouw on one pair, and Redden on another, your offense is going to look a lot better. Sure, a top six UFA forward would be nice, but he isn't going to fix the problems we have with getting the puck out of our own zone. We spend more time in the opposing zone, we'll have more scoring opportunities and therefore more goals.

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06-11-2008, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Panthers_Fan View Post
If you want to compare the Wild and Panthers
Panthers over 50 points
Olli Jokinen 71
Nathan Horton 62


Wild over 50 points
Marian Gaborik 83
Pierre-Marc Bouchard 63
Brian Rolston 59
Pavol Demitra 54

I think that says something about the difference in the teams top 6 depth, and the need for the panthers to acquire a top line player. Especially, if Olli is going to drop in production. After Horton is Weiss with only 42 points... To me the best defense has a great offense in addition to good defensemen. Look at the finals this year, Detroit dominated Pens offensively which lead to the difference in shot totals.
You're so off. The difference was Detroit's edge in the transition game and their defensive play. The Pens didn't have a good offense? Really?

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06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I think it's comical how some people here think we dump the puck in so much because that's our game plan. We dump and chase because our breakouts suck and we don't have a lot of speed going through the neutral zone. Therefore, we are forced to dump it in a lot. If anyone thinks our breakouts were good last year, they're delusional. It doesn't matter who the next coach is, if we don't address the problems in our transition game, you will continue to see a lot of dump and chase from us. A guy like Redden changes things considerably. Anyone who thinks good transition defense isn't important obviously wasn't watching the playoffs. You have Bouw on one pair, and Redden on another, your offense is going to look a lot better. Sure, a top six UFA forward would be nice, but he isn't going to fix the problems we have with getting the puck out of our own zone. We spend more time in the opposing zone, we'll have more scoring opportunities and therefore more goals.
I am not disagreeing that a puck moving defenseman isn't a need or important, but to me that's something that a team addresses at the trade deadline when it's looking for that extra boost in the playoffs (e.x San Jose) or after making the playoffs and failing to advance. What good will it be breaking into the zone when you have no one to score or keep it in the opposing zone. I have no confidence in a line of Jokinen-Matthias-Zednik to score in fast break or carry it into the zone without turning over the puck.

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You're so off. The difference was Detroit's edge in the transition game and their defensive play. The Pens didn't have a good offense? Really?
Never said they didn't. In fact they have one of the best, but how can you say Detroit's offense wasn't responsible when they out shot the Pen's by such a large margin. It's not like Detroit defense blocked a ton of shots. I am not saying offense was the sole reason that would be ridiculous. Detroit was the better team in every facet, but my point is that in the end Detroit won because the Pens didn't get opportunities to shoot because the puck was in their own end the whole game. Plus, Detroit offensive players carried the puck over the line much more than the Pens. Doesn't that say something about the Dump and Chase philosophy?

On the same note you admit Pen's have a really good offense and Detroit does too. Doesn't that say something about what it takes to make the Finals. Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg are all offensive players better than anyone on our team and these teams had multiple players.


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06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
This thread is about Martin looking to improve the defense...

A puck mover is how he plans on improving the defense. I don't think that will do much for the team since it is not our biggest problem.
This post encompasses your short-sightedness that I detailed in my post.

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06-11-2008, 08:48 PM
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I am not disagreeing that a puck moving defenseman isn't a need or important, but to me that's something that a team addresses at the trade deadline when it's looking for that extra boost in the playoffs (e.x San Jose) or after making the playoffs and failing to advance. What good will it be breaking into the zone when you have no one to score or keep it in the opposing zone. I have no confidence in a line of Jokinen-Matthias-Zednik to score in fast break or carry it into the zone without turning over the puck.

See, I disagree. A good transition game is vital in today's NHL. You have to have it to even be competitive. It was always important, really, but now in the 'new NHL' with the emphasis on offense, it's more important than ever. One of the basic fundamentals of hockey is that a good breakout leads to good offense. If your breakout isn't good, your offense isn't going to be good. I mean, how can Panthers fans not see that? We are so sloppy coming out of our own zone, is it any wonder we suck on the rush and can never gain the blueline with speed(thus the reason for dumping and chasing)? Breaking into the offensive zone consistently will be an accomplishment in itself. If we spend more time in the offensive zone, we will have more scoring chances and thus more goals. You don't have to score off the rush every time, as long as you gain the opposing blueline with possession of the puck, it's a start. And I don't know why you have no confidence in J-M-Z line once they enter the zone. Our biggest problem last year(as evidenced by all the whining around here about always dumping it in) was entering the opposing zone with possession of the puck, not what happened once it got there(which it rarely did).


Never said they didn't. In fact they have one of the best, but how can you say Detroit's offense wasn't responsible when they out shot the Pen's by such a large margin. It's not like Detroit defense blocked a ton of shots. I am not saying offense was the sole reason that would be ridiculous. Detroit was the better team in every facet, but my point is that in the end Detroit won because the Pens didn't get opportunities to shoot because the puck was in their own end the whole game. Plus, Detroit offensive players carried the puck over the line much more than the Pens. Doesn't that say something about the Dump and Chase philosophy?

On the same note you admit Pen's have a really good offense and Detroit does too. Doesn't that say something about what it takes to make the Finals. Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, Zetterberg are all offensive players better than anyone on our team and these teams had multiple players.
No, Detroit's offense didn't block a lot of shots. You know why? Because usually they stood the Pens up at their blueline with their great defense corps, and when the Pens tried to dump and chase, their mobile puck moving defensemen got to the puck first and moved it quickly out of the zone. Detroit's offense outshot the Pens by such a large margin because their puck moving d-men consistently moved the puck so quickly out of their zone and up to their forwards. Therefore, Detroit spend more time in Pittsburgh's end than vice versa. The Pens had a good transition defense too, but not nearly as good as Detroit's. You can't top Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, and Lebda. That was the difference in the series, their blueline.

As for the italicized part of your post, that's exactly why a good transition game is so important. You just made my point for me. Detroit's offensive players carried the puck over the blueline much more than the Pens' because their breakouts were superb and their defense moved the puck so quickly and effectively through the neutral zone, setting them up perfectly for offensive zone entry. That's why they don't dump and chase.

Of course Detroit and the Pens have great offenses as well. That's what we are trying to build here. But it's not a sprint to the Stanley Cup, it's a marathon. We have good young players like Horton, Weiss, Booth, Olesz, Kreps, and great prospects coming up next year or the year after in Matthias, Frolik, and Repik. You know how bad the Pens and Wings were before they became good? Especially Detroit, throughout most of the 70's and into the early 80's they were known as the Dead Wings. They were the joke of the NHL. Then their owner Mike Illitch brought in Jimmy Devellano from the Islanders, he drafted Yzerman in 1984 as well as a number of other great players they've had through the years, then they also brought in Hakan Anderson, who's respobsible for most of the great Euro players they've drafted in the 90's and through this decade. It took them a good 7-8 years after they drafted Yzerman before they really became a contender. If your expectation was that we could possibly get the the Finals next season if we signed the right forward in free agency, well then you are sorely mistaken.

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06-11-2008, 08:54 PM
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This post encompasses your short-sightedness that I detailed in my post.
Explain to me how JM is going to improve this team? The only move is going to be a puck moving d-man. We are getting a new coach but he will probably be very similar to JM. He is hoping our forwards improve and Matthias can pick up some of the slack. Seems to me like not much of an improvement.

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06-11-2008, 10:07 PM
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No, Detroit's offense didn't block a lot of shots. You know why? Because usually they stood the Pens up at their blueline with their great defense corps, and when the Pens tried to dump and chase, their mobile puck moving defensemen got to the puck first and moved it quickly out of the zone. Detroit's offense outshot the Pens by such a large margin because their puck moving d-men consistently moved the puck so quickly out of their zone and up to their forwards. Therefore, Detroit spend more time in Pittsburgh's end than vice versa. The Pens had a good transition defense too, but not nearly as good as Detroit's. You can't top Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, and Lebda. That was the difference in the series, their blueline.

As for the italicized part of your post, that's exactly why a good transition game is so important. You just made my point for me. Detroit's offensive players carried the puck over the blueline much more than the Pens' because their breakouts were superb and their defense moved the puck so quickly and effectively through the neutral zone, setting them up perfectly for offensive zone entry. That's why they don't dump and chase.

Of course Detroit and the Pens have great offenses as well. That's what we are trying to build here. But it's not a sprint to the Stanley Cup, it's a marathon. We have good young players like Horton, Weiss, Booth, Olesz, Kreps, and great prospects coming up next year or the year after in Matthias, Frolik, and Repik. You know how bad the Pens and Wings were before they became good? Especially Detroit, throughout most of the 70's and into the early 80's they were known as the Dead Wings. They were the joke of the NHL. Then their owner Mike Illitch brought in Jimmy Devellano from the Islanders, he drafted Yzerman in 1984 as well as a number of other great players they've had through the years, then they also brought in Hakan Anderson, who's respobsible for most of the great Euro players they've drafted in the 90's and through this decade. It took them a good 7-8 years after they drafted Yzerman before they really became a contender. If your expectation was that we could possibly get the the Finals next season if we signed the right forward in free agency, well then you are sorely mistaken.
excellent post. i love the bolded parts as i really think you've hit upon the root of the problem afflicting some of the posters here: they really do think we're one scoring wing away from being a contender and thus, that seems like the only logical course of action.

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06-11-2008, 10:07 PM
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He's such an idiot for relying on an unproven rookie to lead us to the playoffs. If Martin did his job right and got a body to put on that first line, a more competant one than in the past with Zednik, Dvo, etc....then maybe Olli could actually put up some decent numbers. Even Kozlov would have been a better signing than some of our signings last summer, including Stumpel, plus he had chemistry with Olli and prefers to pass rather than shoot. If he ran a franchise right, he'd sign a legitimate top 6 winger and let Matthias prove he was ready for a top 6 job in two or three years. As good as he may be, we're not helping him or ourselves by projecting him as our first line winger or center. If he is, then we're probably going to be out of the playoffs again, and eventually see Vokoun ask to be traded to a contender.

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06-11-2008, 10:10 PM
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excellent post. i love the bolded parts as i really think you've hit upon the root of the problem afflicting some of the posters here: they really do think we're one scoring wing away from being a contender and thus, that seems like the only logical course of action.
We're one scoring winger away from making the playoffs as a 6th-8th seed. The pressure that would be taken off the defense, off of Olli, and off of the young second line to produce would be enourmous. They'd all develop better, the first line would be more productive, and players like Bouw wouldn't be dead from being challenged over and over all game long. The improvement would be phenomenal. If the forwards can't keep the puck down low and sustain offense, as we usually tend to have problems with doing, then no matter how good of a puck moving defensman we have, we're going to be spending a ton of time in our own end like we usually do.

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06-11-2008, 10:16 PM
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We're one scoring winger away from making the playoffs as a 6th-8th seed. The pressure that would be taken off the defense, off of Olli, and off of the young second line to produce would be enourmous. They'd all develop better, the first line would be more productive, and players like Bouw wouldn't be dead from being challenged over and over all game long. The improvement would be phenomenal. If the forwards can't keep the puck down low and sustain offense, as we usually tend to have problems with doing, then no matter how good of a puck moving defensman we have, we're going to be spending a ton of time in our own end like we usually do.
excellent post. Having a top winger not only makes our first line better it puts more pressure on the other team's top defensive pair and ultimately should give more relief for our second line which should produce more. With more production from our forwards we our d and goalie will be less worked. BUT LETS GET A PUCK MOVING D-MAN!!!

Too many people think Repik, Frolik, and Matthias are sure things. They are not Crosby, they are not Kane, they are solid prospects who we are counting on way too much.

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06-11-2008, 10:22 PM
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He's such an idiot for relying on an unproven rookie to lead us to the playoffs. If Martin did his job right and got a body to put on that first line, a more competant one than in the past with Zednik, Dvo, etc....then maybe Olli could actually put up some decent numbers. Even Kozlov would have been a better signing than some of our signings last summer, including Stumpel, plus he had chemistry with Olli and prefers to pass rather than shoot. If he ran a franchise right, he'd sign a legitimate top 6 winger and let Matthias prove he was ready for a top 6 job in two or three years. As good as he may be, we're not helping him or ourselves by projecting him as our first line winger or center. If he is, then we're probably going to be out of the playoffs again, and eventually see Vokoun ask to be traded to a contender.
another great post. JM is an unproven, too conservative of a GM who is liked by many here because he hasn't made a terrible move. Not making a terrible doesn't make you a good GM. Being better than Keenan also doesn't make you a good GM. These front loaded contracts make it harder to sign players in the short term and doesn't give much incentive. Its nice to lock up players but isn't necessary. Also, the zednik, dvorak, stumpel signings suck big time. as does the kilger trade. props for cullimore and Johansson. The Vokoun trade is up for debate. Can't wait for the JM clone behind the bench.

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06-11-2008, 10:54 PM
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another great post. JM is an unproven, too conservative of a GM who is liked by many here because he hasn't made a terrible move. Not making a terrible doesn't make you a good GM. Being better than Keenan also doesn't make you a good GM. These front loaded contracts make it harder to sign players in the short term and doesn't give much incentive. Its nice to lock up players but isn't necessary. Also, the zednik, dvorak, stumpel signings suck big time. as does the kilger trade. props for cullimore and Johansson. The Vokoun trade is up for debate. Can't wait for the JM clone behind the bench.
Haha thanks, I'm on a roll

Seriously though, some prospects take time to develop into contributing players. Only superstar franchise prospects like Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Ovechkin, etc... can step right in and produce bigtime. We've been spoiled lately with all these incredible rookies in the league but don't forget, from 1997, even earlier, on until about 2001, even later, there weren't that many amazing rookies in the league. I think Mike York was a calder winner or finalist, and look where he is now. The general path of a talented prospect is slow development, which we actually seem to be doing, and then gradually letting them learn the pro game. We have NO idea how our 3 top prospect's games are going to transfer to pros. Sure Matthias projects well, and he looked good in his stint, but he also looked raw and was sent down for a reason, even though he scored two goals in four games. We also don't know about their consistency, endurance, and intensity they'll bring or be able to sustain night in and night out over a long 82 game season. There are so many question marks, it's as if the stars have to align perfectly for us to make the playoffs while gambling with Matthias thrown into a top line spot. I'm sure JM or the coach will be smart about who plays on the top line and who earns a spot, but no rookie should be RELIED on. If they earn a spot, then great. Plus, current players who work hard aren't goign to be pleased with some unproven rookie being thrown on the first line unless he absolutely earns it. In the pro game, you get as far as you work and deserve to get, and all the veteran players went through the same process breaking into the league. We seem to love just handing out spots.

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06-11-2008, 11:05 PM
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Haha thanks, I'm on a roll

Seriously though, some prospects take time to develop into contributing players. Only superstar franchise prospects like Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Toews, Ovechkin, etc... can step right in and produce bigtime. We've been spoiled lately with all these incredible rookies in the league but don't forget, from 1997, even earlier, on until about 2001, even later, there weren't that many amazing rookies in the league. I think Mike York was a calder winner or finalist, and look where he is now. The general path of a talented prospect is slow development, which we actually seem to be doing, and then gradually letting them learn the pro game. We have NO idea how our 3 top prospect's games are going to transfer to pros. Sure Matthias projects well, and he looked good in his stint, but he also looked raw and was sent down for a reason, even though he scored two goals in four games. We also don't know about their consistency, endurance, and intensity they'll bring or be able to sustain night in and night out over a long 82 game season. There are so many question marks, it's as if the stars have to align perfectly for us to make the playoffs while gambling with Matthias thrown into a top line spot. I'm sure JM or the coach will be smart about who plays on the top line and who earns a spot, but no rookie should be RELIED on. If they earn a spot, then great. Plus, current players who work hard aren't goign to be pleased with some unproven rookie being thrown on the first line unless he absolutely earns it. In the pro game, you get as far as you work and deserve to get, and all the veteran players went through the same process breaking into the league. We seem to love just handing out spots.
We're not relying on Matthias and we're not expecting him to be a Kane or Toews type next year. But he will certainly add to our offensive depth and make our top 3 lines stronger. As far as him having to earn a spot, he definitely will. He's probably better than almost half our forwards already. I'll also continue to disagree with you about Matthias automatically being on the 'top line'. As I've said, I think the Sunrise Xpress is the top line. It's better than Jokinen's line, and the better line will get the most minutes. And ultimately, our 'top line' will be determined by which line draws the best checkers and top pairing D of the opposing team. And I think you and others just don't understand what a top end puck moving D would do for this team. You think it's just some minor addition. If we sign Redden, it will improve our offense by leaps and bounds.

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06-11-2008, 11:20 PM
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Also, the zednik, dvorak, stumpel signings suck big time. as does the kilger trade. props for cullimore and Johansson. The Vokoun trade is up for debate. Can't wait for the JM clone behind the bench.
It's too easy to attack the Stumpel re-signing. You can diss him now because his numbers last year -- like everyone else for that matter -- didn't go as planned. But with the numbers he put up in 2005-06 and 2006-07, I don't see how you don't re-sign the guy. You just can't anticipate a 37-point drop off. And the Kilger situation is an absolute anomaly. It sux it happened that way but to stamp Martin a bad GM because of it is pretty harsh (not saying you did).

-ghoste

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06-11-2008, 11:26 PM
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It's too easy to attack the Stumpel re-signing. You can diss him now because his numbers last year -- like everyone else for that matter -- didn't go as planned. But with the numbers he put up in 2005-06 and 2006-07, I don't see how you don't re-sign the guy. You just can't anticipate a 37-point drop off. And the Kilger situation is an absolute anomaly. It sux it happened that way but to stamp Martin a bad GM because of it is pretty harsh.

-ghoste
What's up Ghoste! You haven't posted here for like a year. How's it goin bud?

I agree, so many people here have switched their positions on the Stumpel re-signing and want to pretend like they didn't want it. Before he was re-signed, 99.9% of this board was clamoring for it.

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06-11-2008, 11:44 PM
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What's up Ghoste! You haven't posted here for like a year. How's it goin bud?
It really has been a long time I know. How have you been my friend? Even though I haven't posted all this time, I have been lurking. And I still see you are still putting up very intelligent posts. Nice work MB! Why don't you post on the 'official' Cats board?

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06-11-2008, 11:51 PM
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We're not relying on Matthias and we're not expecting him to be a Kane or Toews type next year. But he will certainly add to our offensive depth and make our top 3 lines stronger. As far as him having to earn a spot, he definitely will. He's probably better than almost half our forwards already. I'll also continue to disagree with you about Matthias automatically being on the 'top line'. As I've said, I think the Sunrise Xpress is the top line. It's better than Jokinen's line, and the better line will get the most minutes. And ultimately, our 'top line' will be determined by which line draws the best checkers and top pairing D of the opposing team. And I think you and others just don't understand what a top end puck moving D would do for this team. You think it's just some minor addition. If we sign Redden, it will improve our offense by leaps and bounds.
I keep refering to whichever line Olli is projected to be on if he's still here as the "top line" even though the Sunrise Xpress will be our top line probably, as you said. Still though, that's not the greatest top line in the world. We have 1 60 point scorer and no one else even at 50 points? That's setting us up for failure. That's a 2nd line, not a 1st line on almost any team. We've had this problem for so long with the organization. We play players out of position. We put 3rd liners on the 2nd and 1st line, instead of getting players that actually play that role. 1st and 3rd liners aren't generally interchangeable on any team in the league, but it seems like the norm for us. Also, It's incredibly stupid to not address the need for a scoring winger. We don't have a consistent go-to-guy and if you don't have one, you need scoring across the board. We have little clutch scoring as well, so we need all the scoring we can get.

I absolutely know what a dman like Redden would do for our offense. It would help tremendously with getting the puck out of our zone. It would also help the powerplay immensly, and we already have a nice powerplay. I just think we need more guns on offense as well. Adding a top 6 forward and a puck moving dman such as Redden would be ideal to me. That way we let the kids develop as they may, and if they force into a top 6 spot, then we can maybe finally take our 3rd and 4th liners off the top line. Dvorak, with his pathetic goal totals over his career was a first liner for a lot of the year this year. Redden would be huge and better defensemen would be great, but I think we need both. Either one is a tremendous upgrade for us, but I'm saying with need both if we really want to be a team to compete for the division title and have any chance of doing anything if we even make the playoffs. If Weiss goes down (again) with an injury and that's our top line, then what do we do? Dvo-Jokinen-Peltonen and Booth-Horton-McLean or whoever just isn't going to get us into the playoffs or anywhere, period. Maybe Horton would be more consistent as well if he had to work harder and earn his ice time rather than it just be handed to him by default since no one is near him in terms of skill, and skill alone.

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06-11-2008, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
What's up Ghoste! You haven't posted here for like a year. How's it goin bud?

I agree, so many people here have switched their positions on the Stumpel re-signing and want to pretend like they didn't want it. Before he was re-signed, 99.9% of this board was clamoring for it.
Stumpy put up 50-something points a year ago. Absolutely crucial to resign him at that point. I would personally have been bashing JM left and right had he not resigned Stumpel. Hindsight's beautiful and that was absolutely the right call given the context of that situation.

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06-12-2008, 12:00 AM
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It really has been a long time I know. How have you been my friend? Even though I haven't posted all this time, I have been lurking. And I still see you are still putting up very intelligent posts. Nice work MB! Why don't you post on the 'official' Cats board?

-ghoste
I've been good. Have you been over to the ESPN boards lately? Sad what they have degraded into, not that they were that great in the first place.... I don't have time to post on both boards, I occasionally scroll through the Official site but I like it better here. Lots more people, not just Panther fans, and I like the focus on prospects as well. Hope you keep coming back bud. Imagine if we could get GrittyCats, Puckbubba and Sunrise Kittens over here too.

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06-12-2008, 12:14 AM
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I keep refering to whichever line Olli is projected to be on if he's still here as the "top line" even though the Sunrise Xpress will be our top line probably, as you said. Still though, that's not the greatest top line in the world. We have 1 60 point scorer and no one else even at 50 points? That's setting us up for failure. That's a 2nd line, not a 1st line on almost any team. We've had this problem for so long with the organization. We play players out of position. We put 3rd liners on the 2nd and 1st line, instead of getting players that actually play that role. 1st and 3rd liners aren't generally interchangeable on any team in the league, but it seems like the norm for us. Also, It's incredibly stupid to not address the need for a scoring winger. We don't have a consistent go-to-guy and if you don't have one, you need scoring across the board. We have little clutch scoring as well, so we need all the scoring we can get.

I absolutely know what a dman like Redden would do for our offense. It would help tremendously with getting the puck out of our zone. It would also help the powerplay immensly, and we already have a nice powerplay. I just think we need more guns on offense as well. Adding a top 6 forward and a puck moving dman such as Redden would be ideal to me. That way we let the kids develop as they may, and if they force into a top 6 spot, then we can maybe finally take our 3rd and 4th liners off the top line. Dvorak, with his pathetic goal totals over his career was a first liner for a lot of the year this year. Redden would be huge and better defensemen would be great, but I think we need both. Either one is a tremendous upgrade for us, but I'm saying with need both if we really want to be a team to compete for the division title and have any chance of doing anything if we even make the playoffs. If Weiss goes down (again) with an injury and that's our top line, then what do we do? Dvo-Jokinen-Peltonen and Booth-Horton-McLean or whoever just isn't going to get us into the playoffs or anywhere, period. Maybe Horton would be more consistent as well if he had to work harder and earn his ice time rather than it just be handed to him by default since no one is near him in terms of skill, and skill alone.
OK, at least you agree that we need both, unlike some others. But that's what Martin is trying to do, he is trying to address both needs, instead of going after a forward in UFA and totally ignoring our transition problems. I agree that Matthias probably isn't going to put up a lot of points next year, but I keep going back to Sergei Kostitsyn and the Habs because I think it's a very comparable situation. He didn't put up a lot of points last year, but he was a vital part of their team, and played much of his time with the Canadiens in their top 6. Without him, their top 6 isn't the same, and you really have to watch him to see how what he does for them is such a vital contribution to their team. As I've said, I definitely think Matthias can have a similar impact. No, he probably won't put up as many points as say a Demitra. But he'll probably have a similar impact on the team, because he'll help prevent the point differential(defensively and with his other attributes) that he wouldn't be able to contribute offensively. No, we won't have a true first line next year probably, but as the next couple years unfold you'll start to see our top 2 lines evolve into really good top 2 lines with Matthias, Frolik, and Repik maturing. That said, with Martin's plan, I still think our offense is good enough next year, especially with a full year of the Sunrise Xpress together. I know this board is split in two on this and will continue to disagree no matter what, but what can you do.

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