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Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization

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06-12-2008, 12:15 AM
  #101
Dread Clawz
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Stumpy put up 50-something points a year ago. Absolutely crucial to resign him at that point. I would personally have been bashing JM left and right had he not resigned Stumpel. Hindsight's beautiful and that was absolutely the right call given the context of that situation.
Well, at least someone hasn't jumped ships.

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06-12-2008, 01:00 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I've been good. Have you been over to the ESPN boards lately? Sad what they have degraded into, not that they were that great in the first place.... I don't have time to post on both boards, I occasionally scroll through the Official site but I like it better here. Lots more people, not just Panther fans, and I like the focus on prospects as well. Hope you keep coming back bud. Imagine if we could get GrittyCats, Puckbubba and Sunrise Kittens over here too.
I haven't been to ESPN in a long time, it was very sad over there. I'll be around, have a great night MB!

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06-12-2008, 01:23 AM
  #103
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Explain to me how JM is going to improve this team? The only move is going to be a puck moving d-man. We are getting a new coach but he will probably be very similar to JM. He is hoping our forwards improve and Matthias can pick up some of the slack. Seems to me like not much of an improvement.
Again, you either didn't see, failed to comprehend, or just plain ignored where I outlined what he's going to do and has already done.

The ONLY move? You have a crystal ball? You know that how? You can see that far ahead? No, you can't.

He's said he's going to possibly waive or trade a few guys, that in and of itself is more than one move. It'll likely be Stumpel, and WHAM-O, we're suddenly better already.

C'mon...the ONLY move?

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06-12-2008, 07:09 AM
  #104
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It's too easy to attack the Stumpel re-signing. You can diss him now because his numbers last year -- like everyone else for that matter -- didn't go as planned. But with the numbers he put up in 2005-06 and 2006-07, I don't see how you don't re-sign the guy. You just can't anticipate a 37-point drop off. And the Kilger situation is an absolute anomaly. It sux it happened that way but to stamp Martin a bad GM because of it is pretty harsh (not saying you did).

-ghoste
I'd like to point out that I've been critical of Stumpel from day one and vocal about his inability to conjure any real kind of speed to keep up with the play and his inability to play a fast-paced transition game or put pucks in the net on his own. I was NOT happy about his resigning when he got a new contract as I felt that losing his salary could have gone a long way toward getting a real first line playmaking winger.

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06-12-2008, 08:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Again, you either didn't see, failed to comprehend, or just plain ignored where I outlined what he's going to do and has already done.

The ONLY move? You have a crystal ball? You know that how? You can see that far ahead? No, you can't.

He's said he's going to possibly waive or trade a few guys, that in and of itself is more than one move. It'll likely be Stumpel, and WHAM-O, we're suddenly better already.

C'mon...the ONLY move?
I know what he is going to do as he has made it public.

1. New coach who will be similar to him.
2. Sign puck moving d-man.
3. Trim some fat.
4. Probably trade Jokinen which will most likely be a step back in the short term.

Do you have a crystal ball? Can you tell me I'm wrong? I'm pretty sure you're being optimistic and hoping for something more significant. Our biggest need is a new coach who is completely different than JM. Our second biggest need is a top line winger. Neither of our TOP TWO needs will be filled.

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06-12-2008, 08:51 AM
  #106
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sour grapes, but i was an absolute advocate of signing v. kozlov and dumping stumpel!!!! that would have made perfect sense. kozlov with ollie and zeds would've been nice and stumpel has been erratic since he got here!!!!!!

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06-12-2008, 08:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by harv3317 View Post
sour grapes, but i was an absolute advocate of signing v. kozlov and dumping stumpel!!!! that would have made perfect sense. kozlov with ollie and zeds would've been nice and stumpel has been erratic since he got here!!!!!!
I wanted Ray Whitney.

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06-12-2008, 10:22 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
I know what he is going to do as he has made it public.

1. New coach who will be similar to him.
2. Sign puck moving d-man.
3. Trim some fat.
4. Probably trade Jokinen which will most likely be a step back in the short term.

Do you have a crystal ball? Can you tell me I'm wrong? I'm pretty sure you're being optimistic and hoping for something more significant. Our biggest need is a new coach who is completely different than JM. Our second biggest need is a top line winger. Neither of our TOP TWO needs will be filled.
...If I was a General Manager of my club I probobly wouldn't say much about what I want to do with my team in public....I would probobly say 4 BASIC things about what I want to do just like JM just did here.

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06-12-2008, 11:01 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
I know what he is going to do as he has made it public.

1. New coach who will be similar to him.
2. Sign puck moving d-man.
3. Trim some fat.
4. Probably trade Jokinen which will most likely be a step back in the short term.

Our biggest need is a new coach who is completely different than JM. Our second biggest need is a top line winger. Neither of our TOP TWO needs will be filled.
I agree with that those are the things Martin will do somehow. Unfortunately the new coach will be like Martin. And one single puck moving d-man is not going to improve our transition game that much. Redden or Campbell (if we're lucky) can't be on ice all the time and our forwards can't handle the puck to save their lives. Especially Joke who will be traded by the end of 2008 for a lot less than a 70-90 point centerman. Trimming fat is admitting your past mistakes. Martin will be doing a lot of that.

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06-12-2008, 11:44 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
I'd like to point out that I've been critical of Stumpel from day one and vocal about his inability to conjure any real kind of speed to keep up with the play and his inability to play a fast-paced transition game or put pucks in the net on his own. I was NOT happy about his resigning when he got a new contract as I felt that losing his salary could have gone a long way toward getting a real first line playmaking winger.
what are you talking about??? you don't resign stumpy with the expectation of speed, first. second, he did just fine (better than fine) playing alongside olli the year before. he was injured and had a tough year. everyone's down on him right now but he's still a decent vet and i bet he's not done. in the right situation (not saying that's here), i believe he can still be productive. resigning him was a gamble that appears to be a loss now but we'll see. he cost less than a first liner and could have filled a hole until one of the kids is ready. who knows, maybe that will still happen?

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Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
I agree with that those are the things Martin will do somehow. Unfortunately the new coach will be like Martin. And one single puck moving d-man is not going to improve our transition game that much. Redden or Campbell (if we're lucky) can't be on ice all the time and our forwards can't handle the puck to save their lives. Especially Joke who will be traded by the end of 2008 for a lot less than a 70-90 point centerman. Trimming fat is admitting your past mistakes. Martin will be doing a lot of that.
if you are talking about stumpel, which it appears that you are, all i can say is hindsight is 20/20. stumpel has been somewhat inconsistent but is nevertheless a pretty good playmaker and was coming off a career year. we've been through all that though.

what some people fail to understand is that there is more than one pathway to a contender. JM has made some choices; they are reasoned, fairly conservative choices with an eye toward the future. there is no guarantee they will pan out. some will look bad, others good. when you add them all up and look back in a few years, we'll be able to judge.

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06-12-2008, 11:52 AM
  #111
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what are you talking about??? you don't resign stumpy with the expectation of speed, first. second, he did just fine (better than fine) playing alongside olli the year before. he was injured and had a tough year. everyone's down on him right now but he's still a decent vet and i bet he's not done. in the right situation (not saying that's here), i believe he can still be productive. resigning him was a gamble that appears to be a loss now but we'll see. he cost less than a first liner and could have filled a hole until one of the kids is ready. who knows, maybe that will still happen?



if you are talking about stumpel, which it appears that you are, all i can say is hindsight is 20/20. stumpel has been somewhat inconsistent but is nevertheless a pretty good playmaker and was coming off a career year. we've been through all that though.

what some people fail to understand is that there is more than one pathway to a contender. JM has made some choices; they are reasoned, fairly conservative choices with an eye toward the future. there is no guarantee they will pan out. some will look bad, others good. when you add them all up and look back in a few years, we'll be able to judge.
The problem with Stumpel is he was expected to be a first line winger. He is not a first line player. Re-signing him to fill a position he is not worthy of is stupid.

I don't have a problem with JM being conservative but I feel like he is the type of guy who wont take a risk to put this team over the top. The trade the Penguins made for Hossa is something I don't see JM making. To me he would rather keep some second liners and a prospect for the future instead of rolling the dice on what could be a rental.

I don't think JM will hurt this franchise like Keenan but I also don't think he will make much of an improvement.

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06-12-2008, 11:58 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
The problem with Stumpel is he was expected to be a first line winger. He is not a first line player. Re-signing him to fill a position he is not worthy of is stupid.

I don't have a problem with JM being conservative but I feel like he is the type of guy who wont take a risk to put this team over the top. The trade the Penguins made for Hossa is something I don't see JM making. To me he would rather keep some second liners and a prospect for the future instead of rolling the dice on what could be a rental.

I don't think JM will hurt this franchise like Keenan but I also don't think he will make much of an improvement.
It's tough to say if JM would or not. IMO, he's playing his cards right by being conservative with his assets right now because he doesn't have many. If we were a player away from being a Stanley Cup contender, who knows what he might do. Unfortunately, we're nowhere close to that and JM is doing what he should be doing -- building for the future.

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06-12-2008, 12:01 PM
  #113
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It's tough to say if JM would or not. IMO, he's playing his cards right by being conservative with his assets right now because he doesn't have many. If we were a player away from being a Stanley Cup contender, who knows what he might do. Unfortunately, we're nowhere close to that and JM is doing what he should be doing -- building for the future.
I do think JM has a plan and wants to build towards the future and not sacrifice assets for short term gain. However, I think he and I differ on what is best for this team. I think we need more help offensively and don't need a 6 million dollar goalie if we aren't even close to being a contender.

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06-12-2008, 04:33 PM
  #114
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It's tough to say if JM would or not. IMO, he's playing his cards right by being conservative with his assets right now because he doesn't have many. If we were a player away from being a Stanley Cup contender, who knows what he might do. Unfortunately, we're nowhere close to that and JM is doing what he should be doing -- building for the future.
i agree. with the vokoun deal, i think he showed he's willing to take risks. how that one will turn out is still TBD. i think we'll see him take more chances, though, esp when there are good arguments for them (as there obviously was with vokoun). in short, i don't agree with the opinion that he's too conservative to build a winner. at least not now. it's too early to tell how some of those decisions will shake out.

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06-13-2008, 10:37 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
I know what he is going to do as he has made it public.

1. New coach who will be similar to him.
2. Sign puck moving d-man.
3. Trim some fat.
4. Probably trade Jokinen which will most likely be a step back in the short term.

Do you have a crystal ball? Can you tell me I'm wrong? I'm pretty sure you're being optimistic and hoping for something more significant. Our biggest need is a new coach who is completely different than JM. Our second biggest need is a top line winger. Neither of our TOP TWO needs will be filled.
1. Where did he make that public? That's you and some other's opinion, not a fact.
2. OK, and how can one argue against us needing one? While it's not the end-all to the team's needs, one is needed.
3. Thank God!
4. Possibly, but if we get a great return, it's not a step back. You're suggestion to what we get back for Bouw, is a step back, however.

No, I don't have a crystal ball, but neither do you. I'm pretty sure you're just being pessimistic and not seeing the whole picture, I know this because you've still ignored what I've put up so far as the team's changes from last season already.

While Liles, Campbell, Redden, etc. won't change the overall landscape, they will have a big impact on the team. The transition game needs help and that was clear last season. Who do you think is going to come here and add a huge scoring punch? Hossa? He left Atlanta and is willing to take a discount to stay in Pittsburgh, no way he'd come here. Prospal? Not likely, but he's not a huge scoring punch, either, though he'd be more successful with a puck moving d-man who can feed him the puck with the outlet pass.

We need a coach who can motivate our players and change their mindset as they've been losers since many of them have come into the league, ie. Olli, Horton, Weiss. Who exactly has been mentioned as a candidate is a Martin clone?

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06-13-2008, 11:01 AM
  #116
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1. Where did he make that public? That's you and some other's opinion, not a fact.
2. OK, and how can one argue against us needing one? While it's not the end-all to the team's needs, one is needed.
3. Thank God!
4. Possibly, but if we get a great return, it's not a step back. You're suggestion to what we get back for Bouw, is a step back, however.

No, I don't have a crystal ball, but neither do you. I'm pretty sure you're just being pessimistic and not seeing the whole picture, I know this because you've still ignored what I've put up so far as the team's changes from last season already.

While Liles, Campbell, Redden, etc. won't change the overall landscape, they will have a big impact on the team. The transition game needs help and that was clear last season. Who do you think is going to come here and add a huge scoring punch? Hossa? He left Atlanta and is willing to take a discount to stay in Pittsburgh, no way he'd come here. Prospal? Not likely, but he's not a huge scoring punch, either, though he'd be more successful with a puck moving d-man who can feed him the puck with the outlet pass.

We need a coach who can motivate our players and change their mindset as they've been losers since many of them have come into the league, ie. Olli, Horton, Weiss. Who exactly has been mentioned as a candidate is a Martin clone?
Its pretty clear JM is going to hire a defensive minded coach. Read the papers and you will see. Pearn is just one example.

We may need a puck moving d-man but that is not one of our most important needs.

My suggestion for trading Bouw is you not seeing the big picture. Lupul is like another Horton. In fact he had more points per game than Horton and played almost 20 games less than Weiss and had more points than him. Lupul would be our second or third leading scorer. Umberger also scored more points than Weiss and would be our third leading scorer, fourth if Lupul is counted. Not only would this give us more talent up front it would give Olli the best line mates he has ever had here. This would in turn make it harder for the other team to defend against since we could roll two really nice lines with the exception of Jokinen are responsible defensively. Taking pressure off the BWH line would allow them to score more goals as well.

Booth Weiss Horton
Umberger Jokinen Lupul
Mcclean Kreps Olesz
Whoever we keep or trade signw/e Campbell Belak

Redden Allen
Skrats Johansson/Cullimore
Welch Van Ryn/Murphy/?

Vokoun
Anderson

This is easily the best lineup we have ever had in the history of this franchise. Also, we could trade Jokinen for a d-man or another winger or whatever hole we decide needs to be filled because we have Matthias coming up. Now, we could keep Jokinen or we could trade him and have a third line of

Frolik Matthias Repik

Although this would be our third line it would have the skill of a good second line. With a glut of young talented forwards JM will have a lot of assets to make moves with to fill whatever needs may come up. Olesz could be traded, Frolik could be traded...who knows? But the point is this would create more quality assets for this franchise than ever before making it more possible to acquire the "final pieces" to make a cup run. Our 2009 lineup

Booth Weiss Horton
Umberger Jokinen/Matthias Lupul
Frolik Kreps Repik/Olesz
fourth line is whoever + Belak

Our d men in no particular order, Redden or another UFA d-man, Allen, Skrat, Welch, Ellerby and Johansson/Cullimore(not sure about who this would be) Could still have Van Ryn although that is doubtful.

Tell me I don't see the big picture...

Bouw is great and is going to be a good d-man but we can get a lot for him and make our team better overall. Bouw doesn't have great offensive skills or offensive instincts, lacks the "x factor" and doesn't seem to be a leader.


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06-13-2008, 11:18 AM
  #117
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Its pretty clear JM is going to hire a defensive minded coach. Read the papers and you will see. Pearn is just one example.

We may need a puck moving d-man but that is not one of our most important needs.

My suggestion for trading Bouw is you not seeing the big picture. Lupul is like another Horton. In fact he had more points per game than Horton and played almost 20 games less than Weiss and had more points than him. Lupul would be our second or third leading scorer. Umberger also scored more points than Weiss and would be our third leading scorer, fourth if Lupul is counted. Not only would this give us more talent up front it would give Olli the best line mates he has ever had here. This would in turn make it harder for the other team to defend against since we could roll two really nice lines with the exception of Jokinen are responsible defensively. Taking pressure off the BWH line would allow them to score more goals as well.

Booth Weiss Horton
Umberger Jokinen Lupul
Mcclean Kreps Olesz
Whoever we keep or trade signw/e Campbell Belak

Redden Allen
Skrats Johansson/Cullimore
Welch Van Ryn/Murphy/?

Vokoun
Anderson

This is easily the best lineup we have ever had in the history of this franchise. Also, we could trade Jokinen for a d-man or another winger or whatever hole we decide needs to be filled because we have Matthias coming up. Now, we could keep Jokinen or we could trade him and have a third line of

Frolik Matthias Repik

Although this would be our third line it would have the skill of a good second line. With a glut of young talented forwards JM will have a lot of assets to make moves with to fill whatever needs may come up. Olesz could be traded, Frolik could be traded...who knows? But the point is this would create more quality assets for this franchise than ever before making it more possible to acquire the "final pieces" to make a cup run. Our 2009 lineup

Booth Weiss Horton
Umberger Jokinen/Matthias Lupul
Frolik Kreps Repik/Olesz
fourth line is whoever + Belak

Our d men in no particular order, Redden or another UFA d-man, Allen, Skrat, Welch, Ellerby and Johansson/Cullimore(not sure about who this would be) Could still have Van Ryn although that is doubtful.

Tell me I don't see the big picture...

Bouw is great and is going to be a good d-man but we can get a lot for him and make our team better overall. Bouw doesn't have great offensive skills or offensive instincts, lacks the "x factor" and doesn't seem to be a leader.
Do you even understand how much we would be over the cap limit with that roster?..

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06-13-2008, 11:25 AM
  #118
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Do you even understand how much we would be over the cap limit with that roster?..
but that line up is not including stumpel or peltonen or dvorak..

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06-13-2008, 11:33 AM
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Columbus could be better if they traded Nash, Minnesota could be better if they traded Gaborik, Chicago could be better if they traded Kane or Toews, LA could be better if they traded Brown, Calgary could be better if they traded Phanuef, Boston traded Thornton...? The reason teams try to retain and don't traded these players is because they're guys you build around and are players that can lead them to the Cup. Bouw is one of those players. From what I understand, he talks more on the ice than most of the other guys as well. While he's no Niedermayer in terms of offense, his defensive game is increasingly better.

The kinds of trades you mentioned is what helped get this team to where it is now. Perhaps if we trade Barnes and Woolley we'll be better. Perhaps if we trade whomever for a player(s) that haven't worked out here we'll be better. You don't know how those guys will fit in and this team's Achilles heal for years was defense, Bouw is a franchise defenseman that you don't trade, unless you get Dustin Brown, Frolov, or Kopitar, or a Gaborik, Heatley, etc. As I said, I'd love to have Umberger and Lupul here, but not for Bouw, it makes no sense.

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06-13-2008, 11:52 AM
  #120
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Do you even understand how much we would be over the cap limit with that roster?..
Wouldn't be over the cap. If we can cut Stumpel and Van Ryn that is close to 6 million plus what we would save trading Bouw which might be another 6 million. In addition to that in 2009 we no longer have Dvorak, Zednik, Stumpel, Peltonen and Kilger. Also, Skarts is gone in 2009. We have a ton of space for the 2009 season...

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06-13-2008, 11:54 AM
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Columbus could be better if they traded Nash, Minnesota could be better if they traded Gaborik, Chicago could be better if they traded Kane or Toews, LA could be better if they traded Brown, Calgary could be better if they traded Phanuef, Boston traded Thornton...? The reason teams try to retain and don't traded these players is because they're guys you build around and are players that can lead them to the Cup. Bouw is one of those players. From what I understand, he talks more on the ice than most of the other guys as well. While he's no Niedermayer in terms of offense, his defensive game is increasingly better.

The kinds of trades you mentioned is what helped get this team to where it is now. Perhaps if we trade Barnes and Woolley we'll be better. Perhaps if we trade whomever for a player(s) that haven't worked out here we'll be better. You don't know how those guys will fit in and this team's Achilles heal for years was defense, Bouw is a franchise defenseman that you don't trade, unless you get Dustin Brown, Frolov, or Kopitar, or a Gaborik, Heatley, etc. As I said, I'd love to have Umberger and Lupul here, but not for Bouw, it makes no sense.
Basically you are saying we have a player to build around so we should build around him. What you fail to realize is that Bouw has more value to this team as a tradeable asset than as a roster player. We will increase our forward depth with young talented forwards and a first round pick. In the long run this will help out our team dramatically.

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06-13-2008, 12:07 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Basically you are saying we have a player to build around so we should build around him. What you fail to realize is that Bouw has more value to this team as a tradeable asset than as a roster player. We will increase our forward depth with young talented forwards and a first round pick. In the long run this will help out our team dramatically.
That's a ridiculous thought. What you're saying is that all stellar players should be dealt for other players that will hopefully make this team better. We know what Bouw can do here and we've seen him increasingly get better and better. If Bouw won't sign, this deal is one thing, if he will sign, trading him keeps Florida a laughing stock.

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06-13-2008, 12:15 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
That's a ridiculous thought. What you're saying is that all stellar players should be dealt for other players that will hopefully make this team better. We know what Bouw can do here and we've seen him increasingly get better and better. If Bouw won't sign, this deal is one thing, if he will sign, trading him keeps Florida a laughing stock.
We aren't trading Bouw for an over the hill veteran a backup goalie and young d-man. We are getting a player in Lupul who is similar to Horton and Umberger who would be the fourth leading scorer on this team when including Lupul. Our forward depth is terrible. After Jokinen and Horton we lack the ability to score. Booth has been nice and Weiss is good as well but we can't expect these four guys to carry the team. We are significantly better with the addition of Lupul and Umberger. Our entire offense is transformed. If Matthias, Frolik, and Repik become Shivdki, Wells, and Stewart THIS FRANCHISE IS SCREWED. The future of our offense seems to be resting on the shoulders of these three unproven kids.

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06-13-2008, 12:26 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
We aren't trading Bouw for an over the hill veteran a backup goalie and young d-man. We are getting a player in Lupul who is similar to Horton and Umberger who would be the fourth leading scorer on this team when including Lupul. Our forward depth is terrible. After Jokinen and Horton we lack the ability to score. Booth has been nice and Weiss is good as well but we can't expect these four guys to carry the team. We are significantly better with the addition of Lupul and Umberger. Our entire offense is transformed. If Matthias, Frolik, and Repik become Shivdki, Wells, and Stewart THIS FRANCHISE IS SCREWED. The future of our offense seems to be resting on the shoulders of these three unproven kids.
And if they turn out to be Brown, Kopitar, Frolov, Toews, Kane, Malkin, etc. this franchise is sitting very pretty! This team needs to build from the inside, not trust everyone else to make them better by plucking their players. It looks a lot more likely that these kids will turn out to be as advertised than not. We can't sit back and be nervous about our prospects not working out, that's foolish.

What you are failing to realize is the hit the team takes by trading Bouw, at any point, and not getting a solid defenseman in return. You need defense to make the team work, no matter how much you don't want to admit it. As I said, getting Umberger and Lupul would be a great help and I'd love to have them, but NOT for Bouw.

It really doesn't matter as it has almost no chance of happening.

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06-13-2008, 12:35 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
And if they turn out to be Brown, Kopitar, Frolov, Toews, Kane, Malkin, etc. this franchise is sitting very pretty! This team needs to build from the inside, not trust everyone else to make them better by plucking their players. It looks a lot more likely that these kids will turn out to be as advertised than not. We can't sit back and be nervous about our prospects not working out, that's foolish.

What you are failing to realize is the hit the team takes by trading Bouw, at any point, and not getting a solid defenseman in return. You need defense to make the team work, no matter how much you don't want to admit it. As I said, getting Umberger and Lupul would be a great help and I'd love to have them, but NOT for Bouw.

It really doesn't matter as it has almost no chance of happening.
ROFL thinking any of the three will be Malkin Kane etc.. NHL prospects are probably the worst prospects to count on. Bouw is good but you make it like he is Lidstrom. If Lidstrom is a 10 Bouw is probably a 7.5-7.8.

We can get a solid D-man in return via free agency. Especially next year. This is all conditional on not being able resign bouw to a long term contract. If we can get him signed for less than Phanuef I'm for it. But I think he wants out and will take us to arbitration making him a UFA at seasons end where he will CASH in (2009 UFA).

I don't understand how acquiring young offensive help which has more upside and in no way has topped out is a bad thing. We will win more games with Lupul and Umberger and a UFA d-man than with just Bouw.

Not sure why you are so confident in our prospects. I'm not sitting back and being nervous I'm being realistic. To think all three will be 60-80 point nhl guys is unrealistic. Also, having Umberger and Lupul and the three prospects gives us more assets to trade to fill holes in the future...

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