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06-13-2008, 12:50 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
ROFL thinking any of the three will be Malkin Kane etc.. NHL prospects are probably the worst prospects to count on. Bouw is good but you make it like he is Lidstrom. If Lidstrom is a 10 Bouw is probably a 7.5-7.8.

We can get a solid D-man in return via free agency. Especially next year. This is all conditional on not being able resign bouw to a long term contract. If we can get him signed for less than Phanuef I'm for it. But I think he wants out and will take us to arbitration making him a UFA at seasons end where he will CASH in (2009 UFA).

I don't understand how acquiring young offensive help which has more upside and in no way has topped out is a bad thing. We will win more games with Lupul and Umberger and a UFA d-man than with just Bouw.

Not sure why you are so confident in our prospects. I'm not sitting back and being nervous I'm being realistic. To think all three will be 60-80 point nhl guys is unrealistic. Also, having Umberger and Lupul and the three prospects gives us more assets to trade to fill holes in the future...
And I'm not sure why you have little to no confidence in the prospects. ROFL at something you have no idea whether it will or won't work out that way? Malkin didn't do as well in Metturg as he has here, but he was touted to be a great player and turned out that way. Matthias gets better as he graduates to each level of play, you don't know how well he will or won't do. How many star players in the league were 4th or 5th picks? We all would have been ROFL(and did you really? Yeah, I don't think you did) at anyone claiming that Brady will become exactly what he when he entered the NFL.

That's no reason to trust these kids, but you're being pessimistic, not realistic. Reality is that they have to come in and prove what's been said about them, works for me.

If Bouw won't sign, that's one thing, but Redden's taken a step back and hasn't been the same since Chara left. Perhaps Allen can help him become that player again, but I'd rather see Redden on the second pairing with Skrastins than on the first if he comes here.

I'm not saying Bouw's a Lidstrom, I'm saying Bouw's one of the best defenseman in the League already and he's still young.

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06-13-2008, 01:00 PM
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And I'm not sure why you have little to no confidence in the prospects. ROFL at something you have no idea whether it will or won't work out that way? Malkin didn't do as well in Metturg as he has here, but he was touted to be a great player and turned out that way. Matthias gets better as he graduates to each level of play, you don't know how well he will or won't do. How many star players in the league were 4th or 5th picks? We all would have been ROFL(and did you really? Yeah, I don't think you did) at anyone claiming that Brady will become exactly what he when he entered the NFL.

That's no reason to trust these kids, but you're being pessimistic, not realistic. Reality is that they have to come in and prove what's been said about them, works for me.

If Bouw won't sign, that's one thing, but Redden's taken a step back and hasn't been the same since Chara left. Perhaps Allen can help him become that player again, but I'd rather see Redden on the second pairing with Skrastins than on the first if he comes here.
Exactly, the Brady example as you pointed out is an excellent point. Drafting players is a crap-shoot. You don't ever know what you're going to get. Yet you think it is a good idea to rely on these three kids for the future of our offense????????????? I'm realistic because it is unlikely for all three to become top 6 wingers. I think you can agree with me on that. If not then I see no point in talking with you about the prospects. Also, getting Lupul and Umberger addresses our offensive needs and means we don't have to rush any of the three prospects. This trade makes so much sense. It helps us in the short term but even more so in the long term. The potential is there in two or three years to have an unreal amount of talent up front.

I just put Redden's name out there. I would rather not sign anyone significant and wait till UFA 2009 to sign a big name or trade Jokinen if Matthias proves he is worthy of second line center if we need a d-man. As Carolina showed when they won the cup, Clutch scoring , being on a hot streak as a TEAM, and having red hot goal tender are the keys to winning the cup.

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06-13-2008, 01:19 PM
  #128
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Exactly, the Brady example as you pointed out is an excellent point. Drafting players is a crap-shoot. You don't ever know what you're going to get. Yet you think it is a good idea to rely on these three kids for the future of our offense????????????? I'm realistic because it is unlikely for all three to become top 6 wingers. I think you can agree with me on that. If not then I see no point in talking with you about the prospects. Also, getting Lupul and Umberger addresses our offensive needs and means we don't have to rush any of the three prospects. This trade makes so much sense. It helps us in the short term but even more so in the long term. The potential is there in two or three years to have an unreal amount of talent up front.

I just put Redden's name out there. I would rather not sign anyone significant and wait till UFA 2009 to sign a big name or trade Jokinen if Matthias proves he is worthy of second line center if we need a d-man. As Carolina showed when they won the cup, Clutch scoring , being on a hot streak as a TEAM, and having red hot goal tender are the keys to winning the cup.
THAT'S HOW TEAMS WORK!!! They draft people and make trades for them with that exact purpose in mind. Look at the successful teams and their talent, it in large part is home grown.

You're ideaology is flawed, and painfully so.

Why trade Olli if he's working for the team at that point? Again, your thinking is flawed and it makes little sense.

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06-13-2008, 01:21 PM
  #129
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THAT'S HOW TEAMS WORK!!! They draft people and make trades for them with that exact purpose in mind. Look at the successful teams and their talent, it in large part is home grown.

You're ideaology is flawed, and painfully so.

Why trade Olli if he's working for the team at that point? Again, your thinking is flawed and it makes little sense.
You make little sense. How is my ideology flawed? Because I don't think we will sign a player so I want to trade him and improve this team for the long run while hedging the risk of failure from our prospects? Yeah, sounds flawed to me.

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06-13-2008, 01:27 PM
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THAT'S HOW TEAMS WORK!!! They draft people and make trades for them with that exact purpose in mind. Look at the successful teams and their talent, it in large part is home grown.

You're ideaology is flawed, and painfully so.

Why trade Olli if he's working for the team at that point? Again, your thinking is flawed and it makes little sense.
Why trade Olli? Because 1. He is getting older. 2. He is going to be expensive to resign. 3. We are in a cap era and need cap space for other players. 4. He will likely be closer to the downside of his career. 5. Hopefully we will need the money to sign 40 goal scorer David Booth or 80 point Phenom Frolik.

MAKES SENSE

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06-13-2008, 01:31 PM
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Why trade Olli? Because 1. He is getting older. 2. He is going to be expensive to resign. 3. We are in a cap era and need cap space for other players. 4. He will likely be closer to the downside of his career. 5. Hopefully we will need the money to sign 40 goal scorer David Booth or 80 point Phenom Frolik.

MAKES SENSE
You think Booth could be a 40 goal scorer when his scoring what he did this season was an all time high for him, yet you want to continually say the prospects have less of a chance of working than working?

So, one year of Olli is better than trading him now??? One year older, at only 31?, makes him a worse player?

No, it doesn't make sense.

And again, this has little to no chance of happening.

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06-13-2008, 01:33 PM
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You think Booth could be a 40 goal scorer when his scoring what he did this season was an all time high for him, yet you want to continually say the prospects have less of a chance of working than working?

So, one year of Olli is better than trading him now??? One year older, at only 31?, makes him a worse player?

No, it doesn't make sense.

And again, this has little to no chance of happening.
Apparently you aren't familiar with the word HOPEFULLY

If we trade Olli now we have no offense. I no longer think it is a good idea to trade him unless it is a huge overpayment. Also, I am in the majority thinking the Zednik incident has messed him up.

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06-13-2008, 01:37 PM
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Not sure how I forgot about Jeff Carter. Carter instead of Umberger? and Lupul...Would be unreal. I think I didn't want Carter because we have to many centers. Carter + Lupul +1st for Bouw? INSANE

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06-13-2008, 01:42 PM
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David Booth will NEVER be a 40 goal scorer unless he's playing with Sidney Crosby and a young version of Gretzky on his wing first off.

Second off, the hopes on these prospects that we have are so incredibly ridiculous. There's no way in hell you can compare any of our three to Malkin, Toews, Kane, etc...
We always rely on young players as saviors and it never works out that way. Olesz was solid but unspectacular in his stint thus far, Weiss hasn't consistently hit 50 points even though he's a great player, and Horton is streaky and inconsistent. Even our most reliable draft pick in Bouwmeester struggled at times this past year. If any of you are fooled into thinking that we can just trade off Olli and buy people out just to make room for Frolik, Matthias, and Repik to play in the NHL as our second line to the Sunrise Xpress, you're fooling yourself badly.

Repik MIGHT become a 2nd line player if we're lucky. Matthias is heralded as God's gift to the panthers, but honestly, he's projected as a 60-70 point 2 way center in his prime. If he puts up 40 points next year I'll be ecstatic and surprised. Frolik isn't even ready for the NHL yet probably. If he can find a scoring touch in the AHL and get some confidence, and learn how to play consistently, all huge question marks, then MAYBE he can turn into a 1st or 2nd line player for us, but it won't be this year unless he lights the world on fire. These three are not going to take us to the playoffs next year. Yes, as has been said, Matthias can bring a lot to our team maybe this fall, but it's not even a guarantee he makes the roster. He looks so raw out on the ice and he's skinny. He needs to get stronger and develop confidence in the AHL before he comes to the NHL. He was getting knocked down way too much when he played in his four game stint despite being 6'4. He needs to work on his balance and even if he puts up points, opposing defenders will start challenging him and exposing weaknesses. There are going to be inconsistent stretches by him, and having him on our first line spells bad news for us. I'm a huge fan of all three of these prospects but we need to be a little more realistic. Go over on the prospects board and ask people what they objectively think Repik, Matthias, and Frolik will be in the NHL and you'll get a better indication of where they might end up.
And lastly, I'm also not convinced Booth will be able to hit 20 goals again. We'll see, but I have a feeling he's going to be prone to slumps. He'll score, no doubt, especially when he's hot, but he seems a little streaky, plus he's not really a natural finisher, as most of his goals tend to come from hard work and relentless effort. Depending on how he can bring that effort again over the whole season will determine what his production ends up as.

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06-13-2008, 01:46 PM
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Apparently you aren't familiar with the word HOPEFULLY

If we trade Olli now we have no offense. I no longer think it is a good idea to trade him unless it is a huge overpayment. Also, I am in the majority thinking the Zednik incident has messed him up.
No, I'm very familiar with it seeing as my thoughts on the prospects. How'd that fly over your head?

We have no offense if we trade Olli, yet our defense is fine if we lose Bouw? You're awesome two-some is enough to make the team better and overcome the defensive hole left, but it's not enough if we trade Olli for them?

You don't think Umberger-Matthias-Lupul would be a great line? I think it works.

As I said, I'd much rather have Brown, Frolov, Kopitar or players along those lines than just Umberger and Lupul. Not to undervalue them at all, but the other guys mentioned and those like them would do more here. As I said, I love both of those guys and what they showed in the playoffs, especially Umberger, but there are better players out there for a guy like Bouw.

Again, how many times has this team traded guys like Bouwmeester and been left with nothing?

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06-13-2008, 01:49 PM
  #136
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David Booth will NEVER be a 40 goal scorer unless he's playing with Sidney Crosby and a young version of Gretzky on his wing first off.

Second off, the hopes on these prospects that we have are so incredibly ridiculous. There's no way in hell you can compare any of our three to Malkin, Toews, Kane, etc...
We always rely on young players as saviors and it never works out that way. Olesz was solid but unspectacular in his stint thus far, Weiss hasn't consistently hit 50 points even though he's a great player, and Horton is streaky and inconsistent. Even our most reliable draft pick in Bouwmeester struggled at times this past year. If any of you are fooled into thinking that we can just trade off Olli and buy people out just to make room for Frolik, Matthias, and Repik to play in the NHL as our second line to the Sunrise Xpress, you're fooling yourself badly.

Repik MIGHT become a 2nd line player if we're lucky. Matthias is heralded as God's gift to the panthers, but honestly, he's projected as a 60-70 point 2 way center in his prime. If he puts up 40 points next year I'll be ecstatic and surprised. Frolik isn't even ready for the NHL yet probably. If he can find a scoring touch in the AHL and get some confidence, and learn how to play consistently, all huge question marks, then MAYBE he can turn into a 1st or 2nd line player for us, but it won't be this year unless he lights the world on fire. These three are not going to take us to the playoffs next year. Yes, as has been said, Matthias can bring a lot to our team maybe this fall, but it's not even a guarantee he makes the roster. He looks so raw out on the ice and he's skinny. He needs to get stronger and develop confidence in the AHL before he comes to the NHL. He was getting knocked down way too much when he played in his four game stint despite being 6'4. He needs to work on his balance and even if he puts up points, opposing defenders will start challenging him and exposing weaknesses. There are going to be inconsistent stretches by him, and having him on our first line spells bad news for us. I'm a huge fan of all three of these prospects but we need to be a little more realistic. Go over on the prospects board and ask people what they objectively think Repik, Matthias, and Frolik will be in the NHL and you'll get a better indication of where they might end up.
And lastly, I'm also not convinced Booth will be able to hit 20 goals again. We'll see, but I have a feeling he's going to be prone to slumps. He'll score, no doubt, especially when he's hot, but he seems a little streaky, plus he's not really a natural finisher, as most of his goals tend to come from hard work and relentless effort. Depending on how he can bring that effort again over the whole season will determine what his production ends up as.
I agree with you 100% on the prospects. As for my comment about Booth it was more of me being hopeful and completely overly optimistic. However, I disagree with you with regards to Booth having a slump. The kid scored a lot of his goals from hard work which is hard to defend against. Also, he has the skill and showed it on some of goals last season. I don't think he is one dimensional and I think he will develop nicely into a consistent 20-30 goal scorer.

Thank you for bringing some reality to Panther fans. Our prospects are promising but not saviors. We desperately need help up front.

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06-13-2008, 01:50 PM
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David Booth will NEVER be a 40 goal scorer unless he's playing with Sidney Crosby and a young version of Gretzky on his wing first off.

Second off, the hopes on these prospects that we have are so incredibly ridiculous. There's no way in hell you can compare any of our three to Malkin, Toews, Kane, etc...
We always rely on young players as saviors and it never works out that way. Olesz was solid but unspectacular in his stint thus far, Weiss hasn't consistently hit 50 points even though he's a great player, and Horton is streaky and inconsistent. Even our most reliable draft pick in Bouwmeester struggled at times this past year. If any of you are fooled into thinking that we can just trade off Olli and buy people out just to make room for Frolik, Matthias, and Repik to play in the NHL as our second line to the Sunrise Xpress, you're fooling yourself badly.

Repik MIGHT become a 2nd line player if we're lucky. Matthias is heralded as God's gift to the panthers, but honestly, he's projected as a 60-70 point 2 way center in his prime. If he puts up 40 points next year I'll be ecstatic and surprised. Frolik isn't even ready for the NHL yet probably. If he can find a scoring touch in the AHL and get some confidence, and learn how to play consistently, all huge question marks, then MAYBE he can turn into a 1st or 2nd line player for us, but it won't be this year unless he lights the world on fire. These three are not going to take us to the playoffs next year. Yes, as has been said, Matthias can bring a lot to our team maybe this fall, but it's not even a guarantee he makes the roster. He looks so raw out on the ice and he's skinny. He needs to get stronger and develop confidence in the AHL before he comes to the NHL. He was getting knocked down way too much when he played in his four game stint despite being 6'4. He needs to work on his balance and even if he puts up points, opposing defenders will start challenging him and exposing weaknesses. There are going to be inconsistent stretches by him, and having him on our first line spells bad news for us. I'm a huge fan of all three of these prospects but we need to be a little more realistic. Go over on the prospects board and ask people what they objectively think Repik, Matthias, and Frolik will be in the NHL and you'll get a better indication of where they might end up.
And lastly, I'm also not convinced Booth will be able to hit 20 goals again. We'll see, but I have a feeling he's going to be prone to slumps. He'll score, no doubt, especially when he's hot, but he seems a little streaky, plus he's not really a natural finisher, as most of his goals tend to come from hard work and relentless effort. Depending on how he can bring that effort again over the whole season will determine what his production ends up as.
I don't have those expectations, I expect them to come in and contribute and contribute well, but it's equally ridiculous to think they won't do well. Perhaps not right away, but Weiss, Horton, Bouw, Olesz, and Booth haven't worked out? Stewart's not done as well, then there's Shvidki and Payer, but all teams have guys who don't work out.

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06-13-2008, 01:53 PM
  #138
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I agree with you 100% on the prospects. As for my comment about Booth it was more of me being hopeful and completely overly optimistic. However, I disagree with you with regards to Booth having a slump. The kid scored a lot of his goals from hard work which is hard to defend against. Also, he has the skill and showed it on some of goals last season. I don't think he is one dimensional and I think he will develop nicely into a consistent 20-30 goal scorer.

Thank you for bringing some reality to Panther fans. Our prospects are promising but not saviors. We desperately need help up front.
Noone's being unrealistic, get over yourself. All teams depend on prospects, why can't you grasp that?

One more time, since it's hard for you, people are counting on the prospects to step in and help, not come out and be saviours. I've already outlined the other ways the team has improved already, you've chosen to ignore them.

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06-13-2008, 01:53 PM
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No, I'm very familiar with it seeing as my thoughts on the prospects. How'd that fly over your head?

We have no offense if we trade Olli, yet our defense is fine if we lose Bouw? You're awesome two-some is enough to make the team better and overcome the defensive hole left, but it's not enough if we trade Olli for them?

You don't think Umberger-Matthias-Lupul would be a great line? I think it works.

As I said, I'd much rather have Brown, Frolov, Kopitar or players along those lines than just Umberger and Lupul. Not to undervalue them at all, but the other guys mentioned and those like them would do more here. As I said, I love both of those guys and what they showed in the playoffs, especially Umberger, but there are better players out there for a guy like Bouw.

Again, how many times has this team traded guys like Bouwmeester and been left with nothing?
Where do I start...

See post above about the prospects for a reality check. Matthias isn't ready to center the second line for 82 games.

Trading Olli gives away our only point per game player who is signed to a reasonable contract. I'm on the fence with olli. But we can't expect Matthias to fill his skates. Also, Carter and Lupul would be pretty sick and you would be crazy to turn that down. Also, Jokinen will not get us near what Bouw will.

We only traded Roberto and got left with nothing, sort of. Allen and Matthias the savior.

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06-13-2008, 01:55 PM
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Noone's being unrealistic, except perhaps you in terms of thinking that package could help while losing Bouw.

One more time, since it's hard for you, people are counting on the prospects to step in and help, not come out and be saviours. I've already outlined the other ways the team has improved already, you've chosen to ignore them.
We have solid prospect depth but if all three turn out to be three more Oleszs we are in big trouble. This is why we need forward depth. Carter/Umberger and Lupul make this team significantly better. Tell me these ways again.

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06-13-2008, 01:56 PM
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No, I'm very familiar with it seeing as my thoughts on the prospects. How'd that fly over your head?

We have no offense if we trade Olli, yet our defense is fine if we lose Bouw? You're awesome two-some is enough to make the team better and overcome the defensive hole left, but it's not enough if we trade Olli for them?

You don't think Umberger-Matthias-Lupul would be a great line? I think it works.

As I said, I'd much rather have Brown, Frolov, Kopitar or players along those lines than just Umberger and Lupul. Not to undervalue them at all, but the other guys mentioned and those like them would do more here. As I said, I love both of those guys and what they showed in the playoffs, especially Umberger, but there are better players out there for a guy like Bouw.

Again, how many times has this team traded guys like Bouwmeester and been left with nothing?
Theres no way LA begins to even think about parting with Anze Kopitar or Dustin Brown - I'm not sure about Alex Frolov but i doubt hes touchable either. It's in LA's best interest to keep them, plus I highly doubt any of them move as those three are pretty much their team up front.

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06-13-2008, 01:58 PM
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I'm still not advocating, but I will say trading Olli makes perfect business sense. You have something with a high perceived value, however you are uncertain as to whether it will continue to function in a manner that will continue to provide the benefit that keeps its value high, which means keeping it risks holding a property of much lesser value. You can take the risk, but common sense would dictate getting the most return for your property (in this case, Olli's contract), which would probably be best achieved by trading him before draft day.

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06-13-2008, 02:00 PM
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Where do I start...

See post above about the prospects for a reality check. Matthias isn't ready to center the second line for 82 games.

Trading Olli gives away our only point per game player who is signed to a reasonable contract. I'm on the fence with olli. But we can't expect Matthias to fill his skates. Also, Carter and Lupul would be pretty sick and you would be crazy to turn that down. Also, Jokinen will not get us near what Bouw will.

We only traded Roberto and got left with nothing, sort of. Allen and Matthias the savior.
Where do I start...

You don't know what Matthias is capable of, and if you'd pay attention, you'd have seen that I've said time and again that they NEED to earn their roster spots.

Trading Bouw creates a monster hole at defense, losing Olli and gaining other players in return keeps the defense solid and allows there to be guys on offense to help Matthias' growth. In all honesty, I'd rather keep both guys.

only traded Luongo? I mean, really? Barnes and Woolley? Whitney? Bure? Samuelsson? Lilja? C'mon.

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06-13-2008, 02:00 PM
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I'm still not advocating, but I will say trading Olli makes perfect business sense. You have something with a high perceived value, however you are uncertain as to whether it will continue to function in a manner that will continue to provide the benefit that keeps its value high, which means keeping it risks holding a property of much lesser value. You can take the risk, but common sense would dictate getting the most return for your property (in this case, Olli's contract), which would probably be best achieved by trading him before draft day.
Makes sense. However, what do we get in return? There is no way we get something which is equal value.

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06-13-2008, 02:01 PM
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Theres no way LA begins to even think about parting with Anze Kopitar or Dustin Brown - I'm not sure about Alex Frolov but i doubt hes touchable either. It's in LA's best interest to keep them, plus I highly doubt any of them move as those three are pretty much their team up front.
Not saying they will, just saying those are the kind of guys Bouw can fetch and the team should get, if he won't sign and we trade him offense and not a defensive player.

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06-13-2008, 02:03 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
I'm still not advocating, but I will say trading Olli makes perfect business sense. You have something with a high perceived value, however you are uncertain as to whether it will continue to function in a manner that will continue to provide the benefit that keeps its value high, which means keeping it risks holding a property of much lesser value. You can take the risk, but common sense would dictate getting the most return for your property (in this case, Olli's contract), which would probably be best achieved by trading him before draft day.
Honestly, I agree with this. I think Olli needs to be moved - after this season there are still a lot of question marks (Zednik incident) his lackluster play when we needed him most in the final 5 games. I mean time is money at this point. His contract isnt getting any longer, I think it's in the Panthers best interest to move him before or on Draft Day for one piece in return equal to or higher to his value (probably would not happen) or a few pieces that can bring consistent scoring depth to the Panthers, Id personally like the latter.


Last edited by I May Be Wrong: 06-13-2008 at 02:29 PM.
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06-13-2008, 02:04 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
We have solid prospect depth but if all three turn out to be three more Oleszs we are in big trouble. This is why we need forward depth. Carter/Umberger and Lupul make this team significantly better. Tell me these ways again.
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There's a lot that factors into it: young kids play, players who were injured last year, how will we do without a however many games of Salei and hopefully Stumpel's poor play, the new coach, Belak's presence, Vokoun having played one season in the Eastern Conference, a puck mover, etc.
A lot of little factors that factor largely into the picture.

Also, it doesn't matter any of this you're talking about since it has less than 1 percent chance of happening.

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06-13-2008, 02:06 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Nate The Great View Post
Honestly, I agree with this. I think Olli needs to be moved - after this season there are still a lot of question marks (Zednik incident) his lackluster play when we needed him most in the final 5 games. I mean time is money at this point. His contract isnt getting any longer, I think it's in the Panthers best interest to move him before or on Draft Day for one piece in return equal to or higher to his value or a few pieces that can bring consistent scoring depth to the Panthers, Id personally like the latter.
Which in actuality is what I've been trying to say. It's better to move Olli for a solid player or players than to think about moving Bouw until we have to if he won't sign.

Martin wants a big package for Olli or he won't trade him, he could bring in Lupul and Umberger no problem, especially if coupled with Ryno.

you don't trade a guy like Bouw unless you have to, see the Luongo deal.

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06-13-2008, 02:06 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Where do I start...

You don't know what Matthias is capable of, and if you'd pay attention, you'd have seen that I've said time and again that they NEED to earn their roster spots.

Trading Bouw creates a monster hole at defense, losing Olli and gaining other players in return keeps the defense solid and allows there to be guys on offense to help Matthias' growth. In all honesty, I'd rather keep both guys.

only traded Luongo? I mean, really? Barnes and Woolley? Whitney? Bure? Samuelsson? Lilja? C'mon.
Matthias is not capable of scoring 50 points his rookie season, 40 is a stretch. Panther fans got teased because he scored two goals.

Louie is the only guy who is like Bouwmesster, Bure is close but he had major knee problems and the Panthers wanted to cut salary. Carnes, Wooley, Whitney don't even come close to Bouw, those are just bad trades. Samuelsson and lilja, LOL.

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06-13-2008, 02:07 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I don't have those expectations, I expect them to come in and contribute and contribute well, but it's equally ridiculous to think they won't do well. Perhaps not right away, but Weiss, Horton, Bouw, Olesz, and Booth haven't worked out? Stewart's not done as well, then there's Shvidki and Payer, but all teams have guys who don't work out.
First off, Payer was never expected to be anything for us. Try Novoseltsev or someone like that. Second off, you just argued my point for me. I think they'll be good players, but I don't think they'll be fantastic right away. Weiss has taken a long time to become productive and to become a solid player. Olesz isn't there yet, he's a 3rd liner right now on nearly every NHL team other than us. Booth had a good year but he also spent four years in college and some time in the AHL/NHL before he was effective. Remember how little he provided his first year with 2 goals in 48 games or so? Horton was good from the beginning but he was essentially the #1 overall pick. We got him at 3 but he was still a top notch prospect who was basically NHL ready, and was above playing in juniors. He was much more highly regarded than the three we have in the system. My whole point is yes, some day these prospects may be good players for us but it's been proven with our players in the lineup now that it takes some time for them to become effective. There's no point in throwing them on the 1st or 2nd line when they're not ready, or burying them on the 3rd or 4th line. Players tend to develop in the minors. Look at Kreps and what he's become now after looking like he may never make the NHL a couple years ago. He had some potential but his transition to the pro game wasn't easy. Repik isn't leaps and bounds above where Kreps was when he was drafted. Kreps was a 2nd rounder with lots of skill and some size. Dudley told people that "Florida got a great one in Kreps" and that "he was going to be a great player one day." That didn't look like it'd happen but we let him develop and didn't have any expectations or pressure and he came out and had a solid rookie season for us. Our three top prospects now have more high end potential but they'll take time as well, as they're not surefire prospects like Kane and Toews are/were.

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