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Glencross and Oilers close! (updated as was updated on show)

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Old
06-11-2008, 01:01 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Lowe will have to throw something else into the package to move that contract.
Absolutely. Bergeron can bring in a 3rd rounder but we'd have to add something to Torres to move him.

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06-11-2008, 01:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Absolutely. Bergeron can bring in a 3rd rounder but we'd have to add something to Torres to move him.
Bergeron's cap hit is half of Torres.

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06-11-2008, 01:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Huh? Are you talking about Glencross? Cause if so, isn't he already a UFA come July 1st? So wouldn't he be UFA again after a contract is signed regardless of the length of it?
Nope.

If he signs a one year deal, his league status is back to an RFA because he doesn't fufill the requirements to be a UFA anymore.

He fits in this year because of his age and lack of NHL games. He won't have that same benefit next season.

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06-11-2008, 01:05 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Absolutely. Bergeron can bring in a 3rd rounder but we'd have to add something to Torres to move him.
The Wild also need the offence from the backend badly enough that they're willing to overpay and gamble.

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06-11-2008, 01:05 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
No issues with MacT.

Line for line, on Storts?

"Kid works his ass off, but he just ain't got no hands."
Storts did fit in very well there, however maybe a
Glencross-Brodziak-Pouliot/Schremp/Pisani line would be a better fit???

At least he isn't crying about playing with the guy, just saying that his abilities are limited.

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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Why are you so against giving Stoll another shot BBO? I can understand being fed up with Torres. Both the Oilers and Stoll need to give it another shot, the guy just has too much upside to ditch for a couple picks.
Truth be told, I saw more Oilers games this past year than all of my other viewings combined. Prior to this year the only games that I saw were in the play-offs or against LA and Anaheim. So this year obviously left the biggest impression on me. I didn't get to see him for prolonged stretches in the '06-07 season when he was playing so well. However in the SCF run, he wasn't anything to write home about, and generally speaking he is a special teams guy with a good shot and a guy that's good on the draw. Like I said in another post, if we keep him on the 3rd line, we need more offense around him in the line-up to make up for his ES suckage.

ES black holes offensively = Stoll and Reasoner.

IF we keep Stoll...

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nilsson-Gagner-Cogliano
Moreau-Stoll-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Schremp/Pouliot

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06-11-2008, 01:11 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Absolutely. Bergeron can bring in a 3rd rounder but we'd have to add something to Torres to move him.
Oh if it isn't S7ark, the guy who thinks you have no credibility if you think Volchenkov is a better asset than Pitkanen.

Bergeron isn't coming off a season ending knee injury now is he?

Bergeron has 15 goals and 40 points in his last 78 games, he has a very cap friendly contract.

Torres has 20 goals 44 points in his last 114 games and is locked up making more than double what Torres is.

It would be very hard to find a better value in the UFA market than Bergeron. Torres not so much.

This isn't EA sports, S7ark. You don't deal assets for players who are coming off season ending knee injuries. (unless you're ****ing desperate)

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06-11-2008, 01:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by nabob View Post
Penner, Nillson, Torres, Moreau, GlenX = a PB earning at least 1.3 Million= bad cap management

Dont give anyone away (like the Eskimos do) though
I believe Torres played RW on a few ocassions in the past. So IF Lowe and Glencross come to an agreement and IF Lowe decides to keep both Glencross and Torres, I could see the forwards as is...

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nilsson-Ganger-Cogliano
Moreau/Torres-Stoll-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Torres/Stortini

When Moreau is out of the lineup yet again with an injury, Torres steps into the 3rd line LW spot, but when Moreau is healthy then Torres is the 4th line RW.

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06-11-2008, 01:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
It would be very hard to find a better value in the UFA market than Bergeron. Torres not so much.
If Bergeron had so much value, why is he on his fourth team since 2007. The Oilers have a history of turning guys into reasonably responsible dmen. Bergeron wasn't one of them. The fact that Burkie got a third? He got good value back for him.

Torres is a fast, physical winger that can chip you 20. Definitely worth more than Bergeron.

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06-11-2008, 01:18 PM
  #109
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Honestly, I'd rather move Moreau than Torres.

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06-11-2008, 01:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Three years wont' happen because after two years he is a UFA as he will be 27.

One year won't happen as he will be an R.F.A after that season.
He's UFA now. Group 6 UFA. So 3/2/1 yr doesn't hinge on UFA/RFA eligibility.

I'm happy with a 2yr deal and imagine he would be also even if he is leaving money on the table. He'll still only be 27 when that contract expires, and if he puts up the numbers he obviously feels capable of (given his 1.8 asking price in the beginning), 1.8 will be peanuts compared to what he could make (ie: back to back 20 goal seasons could easily be worth 3mil+ on the open market in 2 years). I think its a great move for both parties.

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06-11-2008, 01:23 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
I believe Torres played RW on a few ocassions in the past. So IF Lowe and Glencross come to an agreement and IF Lowe decides to keep both Glencross and Torres, I could see the forwards as is...

Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Nilsson-Ganger-Cogliano
Moreau/Torres-Stoll-Pisani
Glencross-Brodziak-Torres/Stortini

When Moreau is out of the lineup yet again with an injury, Torres steps into the 3rd line LW spot, but when Moreau is healthy then Torres is the 4th line RW.
Totally agree. I like what Stortini brought last year, but when GlennX and Brodz had the killer cycle going down the stretch (they just always seemed to know what the other was going to do), Storts just didn't seem like the right compliment. Maintain puck control - yes, be a trigger man on the cycle - no. Torres could be that guy.

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06-11-2008, 01:23 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
Thanks for the info.

I believe that players like Glenx who have elite speed and a real willingness to hit are very valuable assets.

I get a real kick when people talk about his shooting % when debating the merits of signing Glenx.

I don't give a **** about his hands. All I care about is he likes to get dirty and will stick up for his teammates unlike a piece of trash like Marty Reasoner who thinks he is immune from the physical game because he is funny in the dressing room.


To me Glenx = Tootoo with better hands and I think those type of players are very valuble, especially with a team that has as many soft, finesse platers as we do. I used to hold Raffi in the same regard but 1 big hit every 15 games doesn't make up for all the games he decides not to show up. If last year is the new improved, more focused Raffi, then we won't be missing much if we move him.

I like sites like behindthenet but I tend to think many on the net and especially the blogs put too much stock into them.

I wonder if they have a stat of "first to the puck"

How the **** do you messure turnovers? The majority of turnovers are caused from a group effort and usually the player who is credited the turnover is getting the fruit of his teammate labor.

Raffi Torres playing on the 2nd line? What the hell man. What has Raffi done in the last 2 years to be awarded a top 6 gig?

He is the most inconsistant player in the NHL! He isn't even physical 50% of the time even though he has the ability to impact the game.

All the talk about Raffi being able to play tough minutes is BS. People spending too much time looking at stat grids. The only time Raffi good in his own end is when he is glued to Pisani. What a surprise as everyone looks good playing with Fernie.

Raffi is a ****ing headcase, can't pass or recieve a pass and has below average hockey sense. His calling card is his physical game but he doesn't use it. I hope he is shipped.

I agree with you on everything about Raffi.
However you have to apply the same principles you did with GlenX to Reasoner. There are no stats for locker room commeraderie, nor the times when the team is on ropes and he chips out a puck, wins important faceoffs in the offensive and defensive end, his timely blocked shots and positioning, and how he is able to anchor/babysit our soft minute rookies etc.

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06-11-2008, 01:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by slats432 View Post
If Bergeron had so much value, why is he on his fourth team since 2007. The Oilers have a history of turning guys into reasonably responsible dmen. Bergeron wasn't one of them. The fact that Burkie got a third? He got good value back for him.

Torres is a fast, physical winger that can chip you 20. Definitely worth more than Bergeron.
Can you find a player in the UFA market that will put up the numbers Bergeron does for a better cap hit? I doubt it.

What about Torres? Most likely.

Torres is a question mark with a few years left on his contract. Not the smartest investment to buy into.

I think Torres has to prove himself healthy and effective before a teams moves assets for him.

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06-11-2008, 01:26 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Bergeron's cap hit is half of Torres.
And Torres is twice as effective on the ice as Bergeron.

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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Nope.

If he signs a one year deal, his league status is back to an RFA because he doesn't fufill the requirements to be a UFA anymore.

He fits in this year because of his age and lack of NHL games. He won't have that same benefit next season.
Ahh, cool thx db. That clears that up.

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Originally Posted by GagnerforGod View Post
The Wild also need the offence from the backend badly enough that they're willing to overpay and gamble.
I'd bet there is are a few GMS that are desperate for a physical winger who has twice scored 20 goals.

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Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
Oh if it isn't S7ark, the guy who thinks you have no credibility if you think Volchenkov is a better asset than Pitkanen.

Bergeron isn't coming off a season ending knee injury now is he?
Hahaha Traktor, you want to get personal, fine. Like anyone cares what you think, lol. If you don't like my posts, then set me to ignore. I'm seriously considering it with you.

But to answer, no Bergeron isn't coming off a knee injury, he's coming off a few seasons where he has fully established himself as a guy with an NHL shot and AHL defensive skills. At least Torres is an established top 9 NHL winger.

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06-11-2008, 01:27 PM
  #115
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Can you find a player in the UFA market that will put up the numbers Bergeron does.....
At both ends of the ice.

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06-11-2008, 01:29 PM
  #116
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make both camps happy :

year 1: 1.1M
year 2: 1.5M

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06-11-2008, 01:29 PM
  #117
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Hahaha Traktor, you want to get personal, fine. Like anyone cares what you think, lol. If you don't like my posts, then set me to ignore. I'm seriously considering it with you.
Awww the baby can give out "" but can't take them. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. "LOL"

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06-11-2008, 01:30 PM
  #118
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Because he makes too much to be a 4th line center at ES. He's not a very good passer, and his offense is limited to his shot.

We also have Brodziak and Pouliot who are both younger/cheaper and at least as talented offensively.
.
So True. Stoll has rock hard hands and can't receive a pass if it was tied to his stick. His passes are just as horrendous and these things have not changed over the years. His shot is his offense, and i've noticed he over commits on defense. I certainly don't want him here anymore.

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06-11-2008, 01:32 PM
  #119
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At both ends of the ice.
You mean like Souray?

I'm sure the Wild picked up Bergie as a PP option, not to anchor the team 5v5.

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06-11-2008, 01:35 PM
  #120
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Awww the baby can give out "" but can't take them. Sorry if I hurt your feelings. "LOL"
You're the one who went personal. I was just responding to your wonderful display of classiness

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Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
You mean like Souray?

I'm sure the Wild picked up Bergie as a PP option, not to anchor the team 5v5.
So you're saying that with all Bergeron's flaws there are still reasons he can be useful, but you can't see anything that Torres can still bring?

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06-11-2008, 01:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
And Torres is twice as effective on the ice as Bergeron.



Ahh, cool thx db. That clears that up.



I'd bet there is are a few GMS that are desperate for a physical winger who has twice scored 20 goals.



Hahaha Traktor, you want to get personal, fine. Like anyone cares what you think, lol. If you don't like my posts, then set me to ignore. I'm seriously considering it with you.

But to answer, no Bergeron isn't coming off a knee injury, he's coming off a few seasons where he has fully established himself as a guy with an NHL shot and AHL defensive skills. At least Torres is an established top 9 NHL winger.
That wasn't my point, it was cap hit.

And which Torres are you speaking of? The 11 point wonder from last season before the injury?

The guy who was on pace for less than 30 points?

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06-11-2008, 01:39 PM
  #122
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So you're saying that with all Bergeron's flaws there are still reasons he can be useful, but you can't see anything that Torres can still bring?
I'm curious as to what you think he brings for that salary hit that's justifiable. I see an underperforming player who looks like a first line LW 1 game and then a limited 4th line energy player for the next 5. You did say there are teams that'd take a chance on him... which ones do you have in mind that'd be willing to give up something substantial?

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06-11-2008, 01:42 PM
  #123
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It's good that they're getting close to a deal. This team is certainly better with him then without. However, if it only results in Torres getting shipped out, then we're no farther ahead then we were without Glencross. Sure we save about $800K, but we're only a better team if we use that cap space to improve the team in some other area. Because the on-ice product isn't better with Glencross in for Torres.

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06-11-2008, 01:43 PM
  #124
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You're the one who went personal. I was just responding to your wonderful display of classiness



So you're saying that with all Bergeron's flaws there are still reasons he can be useful, but you can't see anything that Torres can still bring?
You dropped "" so I responded with one of my own. Grow some skin.

I know what Torres can bring but I think your underestimating the effect of his injury has on his value. That fact that he is signed for more than 1 year hurts his value in this case. I don't think teams will be in a rush to trade for Torres. He is a question mark. If he comes out next year and proves to be healthy and effective his value will double.

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06-11-2008, 01:46 PM
  #125
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That wasn't my point, it was cap hit.

And which Torres are you speaking of? The 11 point wonder from last season before the injury?

The guy who was on pace for less than 30 points?
The cap hit I'll give you. And yes Torres sucked last year no doubt. I just don't think that he sucked enough for him to be a contract dump ,given what he has proven capable of in the past.

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I'm curious as to what you think he brings for that salary hit that's justifiable. I see an underperforming player who looks like a first line LW 1 game and then a limited 4th line energy player for the next 5. You did say there are teams that'd take a chance on him... which ones do you have in mind that'd be willing to give up something substantial?
Because Torres's issues are all mental. After this hit, he has been far more careful on the ice so he doesn't hurt people. As long as a GM thinks they can fix him of that and get him back into his feisty form, he is a 20g+ scorer who's hits can change playoff series. That still has value, esp to the GMs that worry about their teams being too soft.

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