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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Kevin Bieksa

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Old
06-11-2008, 12:57 PM
  #26
bleedgreen
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discussion of who thinks who gets the better of this offer aside, i think the nucks HAVE to make an effort to get a guy like cole. i think they know they really need to revamp the o, and prior to the tragedy their strength was d. it just makes sense, the canes need d and have too many forwards, the nucks need o and HAD plenty of d. its up for debate whether they can afford to move another d of course. it could be a bigger deal where the canes give one of their d back as long as the d we get improves our core. maybe wallin or kaberle. i would think wallin because he can play tougher and is good as a role player. kaberle is real hit or miss. that would off set losing a d man in terms of depth, and the nucks would still get the offense they need. whitney/walker and possibly larose/cullen.....MAYBE ruutu are also in play if anyone prefers them. i think the nucks need depth at forward as much as they need high end guys. i could see cole + wallin for bieksa +, or cole + larose. quality of + being the debateable part.

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Old
06-11-2008, 01:07 PM
  #27
I in the Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbunnyfufu View Post

However I think the Canucks better hold on to him.

Ohlund Salo
Mitchell Bieksa
Edler Krajicek

You guys have four left side dmen and only two right side dmen. Let's say you do trade for Cole and get rid of Bieksa. Who would the Canucks sign to join the top six? Another year of Miller? Rather have Bieksa. For the Canucks system dmen are more important than forwards.
To make a long story short...
  • I agree
  • Trading Bieksa
  • Trading Edler (if need be)

To make a short story long...

I agree... For the reasons you mentioned, and also because Salo is so injury-prone, if I'm Gillis I trade Edler before I trade Bieksa... Also, the grit, leadership, and contract intangibles just makes Bieksa too important to the Canucks, IMO... The Canucks need more players who brings the intangibles that Bieksa brings, not less... Sure, the Canucks could trade Bieksa for a forward who has similar intangibles, but then that move is lateral... and if I'm in charge, I'm more in favour of upgrades than lateral moves, if and when I can... Edler isn't a slouch, and should perhaps be able to bring an offensive player with at least a bit of Bieksa in him (figuratively, not literally)...

My defense would be:

Ohlund - Salo
Mitchell - Bieksa
Krajicek - Miller

#7 (UFA) - left side veteran Dman (maybe Weaver... maybe an upgrade if available)

My forward 4th line would would also look to have Montador (UFA) as a right winger, who can slide in nicely as a right side dman when needed (and with Salo and Miller, it's very likely it would be needed)...

That's pretty good defensive depth, IMO, even without Edler... and also balanced... Trading Bieksa creates a hole, unnecessarily, because Edler (either alone or combined with a prospect or pick) should be able to bring a decent enough return himself... maybe Edler could even bring more return than Bieksa could bring (if matched with the right buyer)...

Given circumstance, IMO, Edler is more tradeable than Bieksa... If the last 2 years were a test, the results show that the Canucks clearly need offensive help in the forward lines - if the Canucks want to realistically be amongst the most competitive teams in the NHL... and when you eat the dog, don't choke on the tail... Trading Edler would suck... but not having a clear upgrade in the forward lines sucks even more IMO... It would be great if Gillis could get clear upgrades in free agency or other means (such as progress from within the system), but I'm not holding my breathe... I think that Edler should be seen as expendable if need be... and the death of Bourdon I don't think changes that... The Canucks still have Krajicek, who is no slouch himself... and is a good 5th, left side dman who has the potential to be top 4...


Last edited by I in the Eye: 06-11-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old
06-11-2008, 01:18 PM
  #28
Barney Gumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
i think the nucks need depth at forward as much as they need high end guys.
Not really. Canucks bottom six really isn't that much of a problem (not really paying too much attention to 4th liner guys). Kesler + Burrows have really come into their own last season; Pyatt is a tweener (just not consistant enough to be a top six winger - but more than solid as a 3rd liner who has some scoring ability). Pettinger is also a decent enough 3rd/4th liner. Prospect Hanson is expect to break into the lineup this upcoming season.

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Old
06-11-2008, 01:23 PM
  #29
TrevorLinden16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Not really. Canucks bottom six really isn't that much of a problem (not really paying too much attention to 4th liner guys). Kesler + Burrows have really come into their own last season; Pyatt is a tweener (just not consistant enough to be a top six winger - but more than solid as a 3rd liner who has some scoring ability). Pettinger is also a decent enough 3rd/4th liner. Prospect Hanson is expect to break into the lineup this upcoming season.
Agree. Not to mention Mike Brown looked servicable enough in his callup.

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Old
06-11-2008, 02:01 PM
  #30
Devs4L
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
He's not tiny, more consistent, one of the most physical forwards in the NHL. Gionta's speed and quickness would not mesh with the Sedins at all, they lack speed and quickness. Besides, Cole is a great skater as well. The only thing Gionta has on Cole is that he's a RH'ed shot.
Gionta's tinyness isn't much of a factor when it comes to Gionta. His heart is 10 times his body. Ask Chara if Gionta let's his tinyness get in the way. It’s such a bad mis-conception when it comes to Gio.

Speed and quickness is also something Gillis stated that the Canucks need more of. So if anything I think that benefits Gionta’s value to Vancouver.

Also, I don't know how much more consistent Cole has been...

Gionta-(past 3 years 226gp - 95g - 186pts)
07-08 - 82gp - 22g - 31a - 53pts
06-07 - 62gp - 25g - 20a - 45pts
05-06 - 82gp - 48g - 41a - 89pts

Cole-(past 3 years 204gp - 81g - 171pts)
07-08 - 73gp - 22g - 29a - 51pts
06-07 - 71gp - 29g - 32a - 61pts
05-06 - 60gp - 30g - 29a - 59pts

I'm not sure there's a huge difference in the level of consistency there. Great years for both players in 05-06 (cole on pace for 80 pts). Then an injury year and a drop-off (cole on pace for 71 points, gionta on pace for 60.) Then very similar years for both this past season.

Keep in mind Gionta has played in a much tighter defensive system. To not consider that as a factor when comparing Cole to Gionta is a little un-fair. In a system like Carolina I’d be intrigued to see what Gio could do, considering he proved he could hit 50 with the devils.

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Old
06-11-2008, 02:10 PM
  #31
semin4captain
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Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Cole's injury problem is overblown by most. He's missed the most time with two freak injuries, catching his blade in a huge rut and breaking his leg and then getting piled into the boards from behind and having his neck broken. You can expect him to miss a few games a year just because of the style he plays but he's not as ridiculously injury prone as people make him sound. His neck is now stronger than ever, his mobility of it has decreased a little bit but it doesn't affect him.
Agreed. Some people act like he's a Connolly/Havlat hybrid. He's played 73 and 71 games since breaking his neck.

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Old
06-11-2008, 03:44 PM
  #32
caniac247
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Originally Posted by devs4L View Post

Speed and quickness is also something Gillis stated that the Canucks need more of. So if anything I think that benefits Gionta’s value to Vancouver.
IMO this would benefit Cole better. Cole is one of the fastest players in this league if not the fastest. I always wanted him in the All Star game just so he could do the fastest skater competition to prove it. The guy can literally stand there, then shoot off like a rocket, its one of the most amazing things I've seen out of a player.

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Old
06-11-2008, 03:52 PM
  #33
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I'm actually a big fan of Gionta. I'd definately want him here. You just can't ignore the fact he scored 48 goals in 05-06. Although I do agree on the other hand that with Bouron's passing it makes Bieksa far less expendable. Arggg I just want more offense bad!

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Old
06-11-2008, 09:32 PM
  #34
Bleach Clean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye View Post
To make a long story short...
  • I agree
  • Trading Bieksa
  • Trading Edler (if need be)

To make a short story long...

I agree... For the reasons you mentioned, and also because Salo is so injury-prone, if I'm Gillis I trade Edler before I trade Bieksa... Also, the grit, leadership, and contract intangibles just makes Bieksa too important to the Canucks, IMO... The Canucks need more players who brings the intangibles that Bieksa brings, not less... Sure, the Canucks could trade Bieksa for a forward who has similar intangibles, but then that move is lateral... and if I'm in charge, I'm more in favour of upgrades than lateral moves, if and when I can... Edler isn't a slouch, and should perhaps be able to bring an offensive player with at least a bit of Bieksa in him (figuratively, not literally)...

My defense would be:

Ohlund - Salo
Mitchell - Bieksa
Krajicek - Miller

#7 (UFA) - left side veteran Dman (maybe Weaver... maybe an upgrade if available)

My forward 4th line would would also look to have Montador (UFA) as a right winger, who can slide in nicely as a right side dman when needed (and with Salo and Miller, it's very likely it would be needed)...

That's pretty good defensive depth, IMO, even without Edler... and also balanced... Trading Bieksa creates a hole, unnecessarily, because Edler (either alone or combined with a prospect or pick) should be able to bring a decent enough return himself... maybe Edler could even bring more return than Bieksa could bring (if matched with the right buyer)...

Given circumstance, IMO, Edler is more tradeable than Bieksa... If the last 2 years were a test, the results show that the Canucks clearly need offensive help in the forward lines - if the Canucks want to realistically be amongst the most competitive teams in the NHL... and when you eat the dog, don't choke on the tail... Trading Edler would suck... but not having a clear upgrade in the forward lines sucks even more IMO... It would be great if Gillis could get clear upgrades in free agency or other means (such as progress from within the system), but I'm not holding my breathe... I think that Edler should be seen as expendable if need be... and the death of Bourdon I don't think changes that... The Canucks still have Krajicek, who is no slouch himself... and is a good 5th, left side dman who has the potential to be top 4...


An astute post.


What do you think about Gillis approaching either Ohlund and/or Salo to remove their respective NTC's? Unlikely that it would occur, but if it did...Now would be the time to do it.


This way, Gillis has the assets to acquire real top-6 solutions without moving Bieksa or Edler. Granted, the defence takes an immediate hit. However, the intelligence of both Edler and Krajicek should see them through the rougher parts of the season.


Re-sign Miller, and run a tandem pair to complete the right-side. Rachunek/Eminger/Commodore/Montador etc..


This makes the team younger overall, faster, and more balanced up front (depending upon who they acquire). OR you can go the veteran route: Trade no one on D, buy 2 free agents, bring back Morrison and Naslund.


Options, and more options...


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