HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Habs-Sens post-game

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-15-2004, 01:33 AM
  #1
Guy!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 840
vCash: 500
Habs-Sens post-game

Well, I believe that was perfect evidence of how the Habs have zero chance at the playoffs if Theo isn’t on his game. Three horrible goals to put the guys against the wall by the early moments of the third against one of the best teams in hockey – not good. Perhaps it’s time to give Theo a little extended break – against the Thrashers – since he seems to be struggling a little with his game recently.

There is a giant gap between the forwards and the defence, there’s a significant positioning problem all over the ice, and there’s a large execution problem happening right now, and none of these things are the real crux of the Canadiens recent play. Effort. Or, more precisely, a lack thereof. You can’t play 15 minutes of a game and expect to win, particularly against teams like Ottawa. I don’t know what’s happened in the last weeks, but the effort from these guys has been slowly going in the tank.

We’re beaten to the puck regularly, which means we’re playing to get the puck before we even get to play with it. The two on one battles are rarely won anymore and when you lose those, you don’t usually have much chance. Worst of all, there seems to be little character shown from most of the players, or if there is character, it’s not sustained through the game, but is only demonstrated in spurts.

It’s just not winning hockey, and I’m sorry, but this team right now does not deserve to be in the playoffs.

~~

Notes:

Theo: Two shots from the blueline and a redirected *pass* which he saw the whole way made it into the net tonight. I know we can’t expect perfection from him, but if he’s going to miss one shot every couple of games, I think we’d all be happy. Missing three in a game means this team will have zero chance at the playoffs. D+

Bouillon: Arguably the best defender on the ice tonight, and when your seventh defender looks that good, you have a problem. Particularly with the puck he was tremendous. He weaved through almost the whole team at one point and it might have come to something had his teammates not been watching but had been joining him instead. His defence was typical Bouillon – tough as nails…some problems, but he never gives up. B+

Brisebois: He had some lapses tonight, but still played a better game than most of the rest. Usually he makes the intelligent play, these days, and that’s refreshing in his case. B

Rivet: Had himself a solid game, honestly. He wasn’t beaten badly anywhere and supported his partner well. Better yet, he seems to have edited out the aimless chasing he was doing earlier in the season. B+

Komisarek: Rookie mistakes, as one would expect, but played a pretty good game all things considered. Against a team like Ottawa, I would have expected him to potentially be eaten alive – hardly so. He handled himself well, made some good defensive plays, and even better offensive ones. Hardly a great game, but a positive point considering the opposition. C+

Quintal: When he plays against the highly skilled and faster teams, he resorts more and more to cheating to keep up. Cost us tonight. While he tried to remain positionally sound, his lack of mobility hurt him. I’m ready to put Bouillon ahead of him in the depth chart, I think. D+

Markov: Extremely inconsistent game. One minute he was making a brilliant defensive play, the next he was looking up before making a pass and whiffing it to the Sens. Nice that Julien recognized it early and adjusted his playing time accordingly. C+

Langdon: Team spirit. He went to town for the hit on Dax, which was nice to see. Good fight too, I think, his best in the Habs uniform. I think I might give him the win. B+

Dackell: Obvious first game back after injury as he was played sparingly and Julien is certainly going to work him in rather than dumping him into the middle of the fire. I’d like to see him playing more soon as I think his defensive game, particularly in contests like this, would be very useful. C-

Begin: What’s to say? He was probably the only Hab on the ice who gave a consistent effort all game and he was rewarded with two goals for his work. Anyone know how to clone heart? A

Kilger: I hesitate to say this, but he might end up being a key for the Habs down the stretch. He’s got to find his game and play like he did for much of this one. There were a few shifts off, but I found his game more consistent, his hitting more effective, and his positional play much better than I’ve seen from him in quite a while. B

Ward: If it ever comes to him getting a regular position on the first two lines, kiss the playoffs goodbye. While I still love the effort and the defensive play, his offensive game is only marginally better than that of Dagenais – except he doesn’t have the shot. B

Juneau: Honestly, he was mostly invisible tonight. He did good defensive work, but wasn’t on nearly as much as usual. Perhaps the aching back is starting to grant those Habs fans who dislike Juneau their greatest wish – his slow exodus from the lineup. C+

Zednik: He had a talking to before the game or after the last one, that much is obvious because his first shifts were zingers. Of course, after than he went back to sleep… C

Sundstrom: Nice to see him get an opportunity on the second line, and while he missed two open nets, I have to be pleased he got in those positions. And if anyone here things Dags would have been where he was, I think you’re dreaming in technicolour hues. Sunny was at the crease, where Dags stays in the slot – stapled to the slot in fact. B

Ribeiro: Another one who probably had a good talking-to before the game, and the fire in his first few shifts was wonderful. He played with an edge – in fact, I’d go as far as to say he played his best hockey of the year. Sadly, it became inconsistent as the game wore on, and by the end, he was erased more often than not. B-

Ryder: Gets a rosy -3 on the night, but it wasn’t deserved. When two of those goals are whistlers from the blueline, no one but the goalie is to blame. Actually, I thought he played his best game since the All-Star Travesty and I think he’s back on the right track – the results will come. B

Bulis: He was hustling all night and was making things happen. He may not have the finish, but he certainly had a pile of chances, and that tells me that at least he’s working to get to the right spots. B

Koivu: There’s a level of frustration in Sax’s game that has been slowly creeping in. If someone makes a bonehead play, he tends to cut his shifts a little short so he can regroup his troops. There were a couple of times tonight that he made poor decisions, particularly on the fourth goal where he and Ryder took long looks at the puck, but didn’t go hard to it. I want to see his fire back. B-

Julien: For recognizing Markov’s situation, I give a golf clap. For dropping Perreault I give a loud round of applause. For putting Dags in the skyboxes, I give a standing O. For failing yet again to get the team working, I give a quiet ‘uh oh’.

~~

Don’t look now, but the Sabres are a rattling, and they have a game in hand. Our so-called assured playoff spot looks to have almost evaporated much like the work ethic.

Atlanta comes to town on Tuesday, and while they’ve been struggling, they have all the firepower necessary to make the Habs look horrible if the boys don’t show up again. We’re going to have to use speed to beat their defence and make sure we shoot, shoot, shoot. Then we need to pray Heatley hasn’t quite found his game.

A Concerned Fan

Guy! is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 01:49 AM
  #2
Necrophile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 555
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy!
...
Good analysis, as usual. However, I'd like to bring one point to your attention. Do you think the intensity dropped off (for some, not all) as the game wore on and the weak goals piled up? Usually, when a team as fragile as the Habs are of late loses confidence in its goalie, it also loses confidence in the possibility of escaping with a win. We know Montreal isn't exactly a comeback specialist, so this could have weighed heavily on the team. I know I wouldn't say this if I were CJ, and I'm not saying I find it acceptable...

I'd just like to know if you think this is a factor which explains the drop-off in the play of some as the game progressed, if only partially.

Also, it seems to me that Ribeiro has added a physical aspect to his game lately. Maybe the frustration of being more closely watched has frustrated him and fueled his desire for the physical play...? I know that when I play, I play fairly soft until I get a cross-check or a slash or something... After that, I play very aggressively.

Necrophile is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 02:26 AM
  #3
suped
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 48
vCash: 500
Two players i thought played well were Ribs and Komisarek even though they did look inconsistent at times they still looked like promising young players which gives me hope even though i think ribs is a bit soft. Also ryder was good but lacked finish so inconclusion the 3 players i thought were good tonite were are 3 young stars on the team. I cant wait for the future!!!

suped is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 07:51 AM
  #4
Munchausen
Full Time A-hole
 
Munchausen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Stuck in traffic
Posts: 5,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrophile
Also, it seems to me that Ribeiro has added a physical aspect to his game lately. Maybe the frustration of being more closely watched has frustrated him and fueled his desire for the physical play...? I know that when I play, I play fairly soft until I get a cross-check or a slash or something... After that, I play very aggressively.
It's definitelly frustration in Ribs' case. I saw it two games ago and it was even clearer against the Sens. When Chara hooked him a bit after the wistle blew, he passed by but you could see in his face he was boiling and went to Chara to blow a gasket. He also made a couple of "near charging" ckecks which isn't like him at all. While I like this new found, even if un-natural fiestiness, you can clearly see this frustration mounting throws him out of his offensive game. Where he would often be cool headed and take his time to choose and make the right play in the offensive zone, he's now hesitant and tentative. I'd like him to combine his offensive flair with that edge he's been bringing to the ice in the last two games, but I think it's not possible. It's either one or the other. Ribs needs to be cool and smoothly moving in order to make things happen. When he loses his cool, his offensive game takes a major dive from what we saw recently.

Munchausen is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 08:42 AM
  #5
HABitude
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Laprairie, dans la belle Province
Posts: 2,561
vCash: 500
Good analyze as usual except for Koivu who had an horrible night. When I check your Koivu analyse I always see an half point more than what he deserves. Your analyse this time is one point over.

This is your quote:
Koivu: There’s a level of frustration in Sax’s game that has been slowly creeping in. If someone makes a bonehead play, he tends to cut his shifts a little short so he can regroup his troops. There were a couple of times tonight that he made poor decisions, particularly on the fourth goal where he and Ryder took long looks at the puck, but didn’t go hard to it. I want to see his fire back. B-

My opinion: Koivu was responsable of 2 turnovers, very evident, that didn't cause goals but it was an hard time for the D corps. Sax was not skating last night, that was one of his typical slow night, the opposite team had plenty of time to position themselves and when Sax was trying to pass, his teamates were closely checked. He did had only one good shift at the very end of the second period. He deked Redden behing the net and had a good scoring chance. It was promising for the third but he did nothing worth in the third. C-
...And sadly Theo had an horrible night. Bad timing.

HABitude is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 09:29 AM
  #6
oli500
Registered User
 
oli500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Kitchener
Posts: 4,610
vCash: 500
2 things did not work for us last night. Special teams and our goaltending wich well be our key ingridents for us to make the playoffs and to go far in the playoffs. When it was 1-1 last night we got two beautiful power play chanches to take the lead and it dident hapen, wich againts a team like ottawa you cant do that. As soone as they got a power play they scored and it when downhill from there. When we had the recent succes it's cause our power play and penalty kill was working at full gear. The loss of souray well hurt cause it showed last night. We need to get red os saku on the point cause I dont think having him and ribeiro on the same pp will work now that souray is out of the line-up. Our 2 power play unit is weak when the juneau-kilger and bulis on it, it has to change.

oli500 is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 10:23 AM
  #7
Mats NAslund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,128
vCash: 50
Our Goaltending has let Montreal down 3 straight games...Like someone said earlier when a goalie let's in bad goals a team like Montreal which is low on confidence starts to play on it's heels. Time to start with Garon give Theodore a mental and physical break. If Garon plays well, roll with him for a while because if Montreal does make the playoffs they will need a well rested Theodore to make any noise!

Mats NAslund is online now  
Old
02-15-2004, 10:25 AM
  #8
Mathletic
Registered User
 
Mathletic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St-Augustin, Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,336
vCash: 500
WHAT ? Kilger B+ ???????? I just watched the 3rd periond, and he can't even handle the puck with no one surrounding him

Mathletic is online now  
Old
02-15-2004, 11:03 AM
  #9
SHUDO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Good analyze as usual except for Koivu who had an horrible night. When I check your Koivu analyse I always see an half point more than what he deserves. Your analyse this time is one point over.

This is your quote:
Koivu: There’s a level of frustration in Sax’s game that has been slowly creeping in. If someone makes a bonehead play, he tends to cut his shifts a little short so he can regroup his troops. There were a couple of times tonight that he made poor decisions, particularly on the fourth goal where he and Ryder took long looks at the puck, but didn’t go hard to it. I want to see his fire back. B-

My opinion: Koivu was responsable of 2 turnovers, very evident, that didn't cause goals but it was an hard time for the D corps. Sax was not skating last night, that was one of his typical slow night, the opposite team had plenty of time to position themselves and when Sax was trying to pass, his teamates were closely checked. He did had only one good shift at the very end of the second period. He deked Redden behing the net and had a good scoring chance. It was promising for the third but he did nothing worth in the third. C-
...And sadly Theo had an horrible night. Bad timing.
I agree, I didn't think It was only me when I said Koivu wasn't playing with much heart or intensity. Hopefully we'll see him step up his game against the Thrashers

SHUDO is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 11:08 AM
  #10
SHUDO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles
WHAT ? Kilger B+ ???????? I just watched the 3rd periond, and he can't even handle the puck with no one surrounding him
I agree, he had a clear breakaway that he could have easily made something of, but he when he turned is head and saw there was a defenceman coming, he paniced and lost the puck. Definately not the work of a B+ player. This is one example, but the were ample defensive, and offesive possibilities that he screwed up on.

In the mean time, I do enjoy guys analysis of every game. I've watch a lot of hockey, but never really analysed individuals performance. Guys posting, as really helped me to look for the individual rights and wrongs. Brings a new excitement to my game watching. Thanks guy (I feel like I'm gonna cry) :p

SHUDO is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 02:31 PM
  #11
Guy!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrophile
I'd just like to know if you think this is a factor which explains the drop-off in the play of some as the game progressed, if only partially.
Certainly it's a major factor and has been over the last little while when Theo's game hasn't been where it was earlier in the season. It's a fragile team that's anchored by goaltending. The media and many GM's point to Theo as the key ingredient to Montreal's potential. They don't really have a playoff calibre squad, however with one of the top goalie's in the business, it makes a non-playoff group into contenders. The large problem is, when that one aspect struggles, the rest of the team starts to crumble.

Now, I don't think it's the only factor - not by a long shot. When your goalie plays badly, it doesn't give you an excuse to cruise, and that's what's been happening far too often lately. These guys are pro atheletes and should be playing each game at the highest level regardless of score. That's why that 8-0 win against Pittsburgh was so problematic for me before Christmas; that's why this loss against ostensibly the best team in hockey is so tough. Sure, we should lose the game, but it's the *method* we lose it that's so troubling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrophile
Also, it seems to me that Ribeiro has added a physical aspect to his game lately. Maybe the frustration of being more closely watched has frustrated him and fueled his desire for the physical play...? I know that when I play, I play fairly soft until I get a cross-check or a slash or something... After that, I play very aggressively.
I think frustration is one part of it for certain; witness his attack on Chara. That hook he received was as tiny as any you'll get in the game of hockey, yet he ends up throwing punches with the biggest guy in the game over it - nothing but frustration will lead you to that end.

However the hitting aspect of this game, also mentioned earlier by other posters, has been a dimension that he's been slowly applying from the start of the season. I don't believe it's an aspect of frustration, I think it's the growing process for this player. He is as well aware as most observers that, as a small guy, he has to make sure he's felt at this level even when he isn't producing. I have to believe that over the course of the year this has been brought up a few times by the coaching staff, and kudos to him for bringing it to his game.

I also have to believe that some of it is a result of playing with Koivu. Here's a small guy who's considered one of the better players in the game because he plays with such heart. Ribeiro's not a stupid person and will surely realize that he too can elevate his game by adding in some of the grit that Koivu brings to each match. This is the leadership that Koivu brings without opening his mouth, as far as I'm concerned. Before this year, Ribs wouldn't hit a fly, now in competing with Koivu for icetime, he's had to incorporate more elements to his game. BUt even without the competition, he realizes that when he's not scoring, he's a non-entity out there and in watching and learning has introduced to his game those elements he thinks will take him to the next level.

Honestly, if he continues to play with this fire, adds some more lower body strength so he's not so easily knocked about, and brings a consistency to his game we've yet to see, then I can see him taking the next step in the next couple of years.

The big question is whether he's got it in him to accomplish this.

ACF

Guy! is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 02:48 PM
  #12
Guy!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
My opinion: Koivu was responsable of 2 turnovers, very evident, that didn't cause goals but it was an hard time for the D corps.
I'd reply by saying he was responsible for even more than that. But this is hockey not ringette and turnovers are a large part of the game. I don't think there's a player out there who doesn't make stupid errors from time to time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Sax was not skating last night, that was one of his typical slow night, the opposite team had plenty of time to position themselves and when Sax was trying to pass, his teamates were closely checked.
Typical slow nights? I'm not sure I understand that comment. I find him one of the consistently hardest workers on the team. Yes, his overall speed isn't breath-taking, however his foot speed is still very high. I will agree that this was a night when he wasn't moving as well as he should be, but I feel this is the exception rather than the rule for this player.

As to the second half of your statement indicating that his passing was thwarted by covered teammates, I don't think that has anything to do with Koivu so much as the teammates he's trying to hit with the pass. Once you have the puck, it's not your responsibility to make the other players open. You have to make your best choices about who to send the puck to, but in the end, it's lies on the other players to move to open positions. If they fail to move, thereby leaving Koivu with lower percentage passes, that's hardly a failing of Koivu.

To add to that, there comes a time when a player must make a pass rather than holding on and getting murdered by opposing defenders. When Koivu, or any person on the team, decides to make that pass, there has to be an element of trust in his fellow teammate that he will be able to both receive the pass and then do something with it. Koivu shows a confidence in his teammates - not always deserved, granted - that is unsurpassed on this club. He'll try and jam it to a covered Ryder or Bulis and make something happen rather than eat the puck himself, thus resulting in a turnover that ends up amounting to nothing for the Habs.

Constrast that with Ribeiro who seems to more frequently make successful passes. Does this mean he's a better passer? I don't believe so. I think it means he doesn't have confidence in his teammates and thinks he alone can do better. This is a fundamental "me first" problem, and something that Ribeiro will learn in time. It's part of the reason Koivu is a good leader - he believes in his teammates where others do not. Ribeiro, when not seeing an open man, will lose the puck to opponents and in doing so will waste a chance to make something happen. It's a conservative style of play - and somewhat selfish, but that's not where I'm going with this comment.

I completely respect your view of Koivu's play, HABitude, though I do not subscribe to that view. We have two different ways of viewing the game and while I think yours is a more 'pretty' style where the blatantly visible is rewarded, I like to look at the little things and see where they could change. I see the more fundamental aspects and you see the game more in terms of it's overall look, I think. It's my personal opinion that without the fundamentals, the game dissolves, however again, I still respect your vision of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
He did had only one good shift at the very end of the second period. He deked Redden behing the net and had a good scoring chance. It was promising for the third but he did nothing worth in the third. C-
...And sadly Theo had an horrible night. Bad timing.
And this is precisely why I see us looking at the game in different ways. On that particular play, while Koivu made the 'pretty' move, it was a fundamental error by Redden which he will make about three times a season. Didn't help that he lost an edge either. (Not that I didn't snort and yell at the TV for Redden to go find his jock.) Yes, it was great stickhandling by Koivu, but it's no different than what he normally does - a style that earned him kudos from his fellow player a few years back when he was voted best stickhandler in traffic in the Eastern Conference by his peers.

As to Theo. Ouch. Give him a break, give Garon the Atlanta game, and hope poor Theo comes back a little refreshed.

ACF

Guy! is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 02:52 PM
  #13
#44_delivers
Registered User
 
#44_delivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,009
vCash: 500
komi had a better game then you think guy! he played excellent the entire game not many mistakes at all.

anyways they tried yesterdey but we will never compete with teams like ottawa becuase we are not large and phisical enough thats why we lost to blame it all on theo is wrong.

#44_delivers is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 02:53 PM
  #14
Guy!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 840
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles
WHAT ? Kilger B+ ???????? I just watched the 3rd periond, and he can't even handle the puck with no one surrounding him
Understandable reaction and fully expected as well. I'm not looking for Kilger to be the guy that makes great plays with the puck; he's just not able to do that on a consistent basis. What I am looking for is his ability to skate hard, make solid hits, and cause a cafuffle with his large body size.

Last night, for most of the game, he did just that. Best of all, he didn't turn his back to hit a player, he generally went shoulder to shoulder. I was also pleased to see him on the powerplay setting up camp in front of the goalie. There's nowhere better for this guy to be out there in such a situation. He's got enough talent to whack home rebounds and is also big and strong enough to maintain position.

Personally, I'm much happier with Sunny on the second line, Dags in the stands, and Kilger in the lineup. If he can only find his consistency and continue to work his butt off as he did for much of last night, I think he can really make a difference in the stretch drive.

Unfortunately, I understand that Dags will probably be back in the lineup next game against Atlanta. That, for me, is a great disappointment as it means that probably Kilger is going back to the stands.

ACF

Guy! is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 03:00 PM
  #15
#44_delivers
Registered User
 
#44_delivers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,009
vCash: 500
kilger definaitly didnt deserve a b, actually nobody deserved a b of any kind becuase everybody waz non effective against a bigger more dominent ottawa team.

#44_delivers is offline  
Old
02-15-2004, 03:57 PM
  #16
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 19,335
vCash: 133
Quote:
-Constrast that with Ribeiro who seems to more frequently make successful passes. Does this mean he's a better passer? I don't believe so. I think it means he doesn't have confidence in his teammates and thinks he alone can do better. This is a fundamental "me first" problem, and something that Ribeiro will learn in time. It's part of the reason Koivu is a good leader - he believes in his teammates where others do not. Ribeiro, when not seeing an open man, will lose the puck to opponents and in doing so will waste a chance to make something happen. It's a conservative style of play - and somewhat selfish, but that's not where I'm going with this comment.
Very Very good part .

Quote:
-Komisarek: Rookie mistakes, as one would expect, but played a pretty good game all things considered. Against a team like Ottawa, I would have expected him to potentially be eaten alive – hardly so. He handled himself well, made some good defensive plays, and even better offensive ones. Hardly a great game, but a positive point considering the opposition. C+
btw Julien said he was happy of Komisarek play Vs the Sens . If he continue to play consecutive games he'll be better and better ....

Team_Spirit is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.