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Olli Jokinen likely heading to Columbus

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Old
06-12-2008, 12:12 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm too lazy to look at HockeyDB but I believe last year was OJ's career-lowest year for a full 82 games and it was Zherdev's best - and OJ still came out on top. But disregarding that - Columbus gets rid of a guy who was as little as a year ago a proven headache for a legitimate first-line centre who's usually hovering around the 80-90 point mark. They also (finally) get someone to play with Rick Nash...who cares if it's not that ideal playmaking center they've dreamed of? Who do they have as their first line center going into next year...Manny Malhotra?

If Columbus is worried about losing their secondary scoring, finding a guy to put up 30g/60p like they had with Zherdev is not impossible. Hell sign Michael Ryder n the offseason for cheap and hope for the best. Guys like Jokinen, on the other hand, are much more difficult to come by.
So you saying that you're surprised that a 28 YO guy outscored the 22 YOU guy? OJ had two 80-90 points seasons over the last 5 (the other 3 where 60-70), so it's not like we're talking about Joe Sakic. And don't get me wrong, I'm a big OJ fan, and am not a fan of either team, so I don't have an axe to grind. I also agree that OJ was a better player last year than Zherdev. I just think that Zherdev put it together last year and if he continues to progress, and has legit scoring line linemates, he's not all that far from OJ's likely production.

My point is that Zherdev carried his line last year, and that adding OJ and throwing in a couple of stiff's on the 2nd line isn't going to help overall team scoring enough to justify trading the 6th pick overall. I think that CLM needs to be careful not to pull a "knee-jerk" trade where they make a hasty move and overpay to try and bootstrap the team into the play-off's. Just my $.02

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06-12-2008, 12:22 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by kidAcbj View Post
surely being down south youve heard of Columbus, Georgia? its the same spelling up north


i feel your pain on about people ragging on teams they know little about. i think Columbus is a lot closer to the playoffs than people are giving them credit for
wasn't paying attention, sorry.

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06-12-2008, 12:24 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
My point is that Zherdev carried his line last year, and that adding OJ and throwing in a couple of stiff's on the 2nd line isn't going to help overall team scoring enough to justify trading the 6th pick overall. I think that CLM needs to be careful not to pull a "knee-jerk" trade where they make a hasty move and overpay to try and bootstrap the team into the play-off's. Just my $.02
I'm of the opinion that Jokinen is and will always be a better and more valuable player than Zherdev, which is why I have such a tough time understanding why he would be the stopping point in a trade. It's almost like if the Sharks didn't pull the trigger on the Thornton deal because they were giving up too much of their depth for something they already had (a first-line centre). If you can get the best player going your way in the deal, you should make the deal.

However I do agree with what you say about trading the 6th pick. If anything, that would have me hesitating more than including Zherdev. If the Jackets could convince the Panthers to take Zherdev and the 19th (or wherever their other pick is) and maybe a mid-level prospect, I would be on it in a heartbeat if I were CBJ.

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06-12-2008, 01:07 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm of the opinion that Jokinen is and will always be a better and more valuable player than Zherdev, which is why I have such a tough time understanding why he would be the stopping point in a trade. It's almost like if the Sharks didn't pull the trigger on the Thornton deal because they were giving up too much of their depth for something they already had (a first-line centre). If you can get the best player going your way in the deal, you should make the deal.
Just wondering - how would you compare Zherdev's value to Andrei Kostitsyn? I just think that Zherdev's earlier issues (inconsistent effort and contract issues) have made posters here undervalue him and his potential. NZ & AK are both from the same draft class, but while AK is just scratching the surface and is going to be a PPG player in the near future, NZ is a headcase who has already maxed out.

And that's not taking into account that NZ's linemates for most of the year would have struggled to play on MON's 4th line last year.

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06-12-2008, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Just wondering - how would you compare Zherdev's value to Andrei Kostitsyn? I just think that Zherdev's earlier issues (inconsistent effort and contract issues) have made posters here undervalue him and his potential. NZ & AK are both from the same draft class, but while AK is just scratching the surface and is going to be a PPG player in the near future, NZ is a headcase who has already maxed out.

And that's not taking into account that NZ's linemates for most of the year would have struggled to play on MON's 4th line last year.
Zherdev has already maxed out, at 22 y/o? Okay.

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06-12-2008, 01:30 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by andyGILL View Post
Zherdev has already maxed out, at 22 y/o? Okay.
I was making the case that the above seems to be the impression on HF, while similiar aged guys who have less NHL experience (like Kostitsyn) get the benefit of the doubt. I'm actually a Zherdev fan, and think that he's going to be a PPG+ player if CLM gets some talent to play with him.

Sorry for the confusion if my earlier post was confusing.

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06-12-2008, 01:56 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm of the opinion that Jokinen is and will always be a better and more valuable player than Zherdev, which is why I have such a tough time understanding why he would be the stopping point in a trade. If you can get the best player going your way in the deal, you should make the deal.
The problem is that Howson has said if he goes after a first line center, he wants him for 5-6 years. I doubt Jokinen would be iwth the team that long (or play at a high enough level that long), which is why Howson doesn't seem to be interested (from what he's said publically).

I'm not SH, but I don't think this deal's going to happen from what I have heard.

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Old
06-12-2008, 02:11 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I was making the case that the above seems to be the impression on HF, while similiar aged guys who have less NHL experience (like Kostitsyn) get the benefit of the doubt. I'm actually a Zherdev fan, and think that he's going to be a PPG+ player if CLM gets some talent to play with him.

Sorry for the confusion if my earlier post was confusing.

thats why, imo, it makes no sense to trade for a center if you have to give up Z. you still have the same number of holes as before by including Z in a trade for a center.

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06-12-2008, 02:48 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm too lazy to look at HockeyDB but I believe last year was OJ's career-lowest year for a full 82 games and it was Zherdev's best - and OJ still came out on top. But disregarding that - Columbus gets rid of a guy who was as little as a year ago a proven headache for a legitimate first-line centre who's usually hovering around the 80-90 point mark. They also (finally) get someone to play with Rick Nash...who cares if it's not that ideal playmaking center they've dreamed of? Who do they have as their first line center going into next year...Manny Malhotra?

If Columbus is worried about losing their secondary scoring, finding a guy to put up 30g/60p like they had with Zherdev is not impossible. Hell sign Michael Ryder n the offseason for cheap and hope for the best. Guys like Jokinen, on the other hand, are much more difficult to come by.
How old is Z and how old is Jokinen? What were Jokinen's numbers at that age?

No way they trade Z for Jokinen, how is that an upgrade? Put Z on Pitt's team and he puts up Malkin numbers. The Jackets are looking to get better and that deal puts them in the wrong direction. If you trade Z it better be for a playmaking center to skate between Nash and Modin. Jok would be a joke. Sorry.

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06-12-2008, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OldGoaltender View Post
How old is Z and how old is Jokinen? What were Jokinen's numbers at that age?

No way they trade Z for Jokinen, how is that an upgrade? Put Z on Pitt's team and he puts up Malkin numbers. The Jackets are looking to get better and that deal puts them in the wrong direction. If you trade Z it better be for a playmaking center to skate between Nash and Modin. Jok would be a joke. Sorry.
I'm a big Zherdev fan, but I think you're INSANE if you think that Nik would be 2nd in the league in scoring playing with Malone & Sykora.

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06-12-2008, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I'm a big Zherdev fan, but I think you're INSANE if you think that Nik would be 2nd in the league in scoring playing with Malone & Sykora.
I've been called that before, but I think Z has the talent, and the desire. Look what he did with the spare pieces last year. Maybe I was a little overzealous, but aren't all hockey fans.

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06-12-2008, 03:02 PM
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Jokinen might not be the perfect fit but Columbus desperately needs a center. However if they are trading away Zherdev I don't it will be that benefical because both Jokinen and Nash are shooters who need somone to carry the puck and create plays. If they can some how keep Zherdev and still acquire Jokinen, Howson gets two thumbs up.

Nash-Jokinen-Zherdev

That's one scary line.

I hope the Oil get him instead.

Penner-Jokinen-Hemsky

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06-12-2008, 03:04 PM
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Though it would be a good move for Columbus it would be a bad move for Jokinen as Columbus is no closer to being a playoff team than what Florida is.

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06-12-2008, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by OldGoaltender View Post
How old is Z and how old is Jokinen? What were Jokinen's numbers at that age?

No way they trade Z for Jokinen, how is that an upgrade? Put Z on Pitt's team and he puts up Malkin numbers. The Jackets are looking to get better and that deal puts them in the wrong direction. If you trade Z it better be for a playmaking center to skate between Nash and Modin. Jok would be a joke. Sorry.
i know you werent actually wanting to know, but making a point. but reading this made me look it up. so here you go .

Jokinen
20 - 21pts
21 - 21pts
22 - 16pts
23 - 29pts
Total - 87pts

Zherdev
20 - 34pts
21 - 54pts
22 - 32pts
23 - 61pts
Total - 181pts

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06-12-2008, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I'm a big Zherdev fan, but I think you're INSANE if you think that Nik would be 2nd in the league in scoring playing with Malone & Sykora.
I've been called that before, but I think Z has the talent, and the desire. Look what he did with the spare pieces last year. Maybe I was a little overzealous, but aren't all hockey fans.

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06-12-2008, 03:47 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
Jokinen
20 - 21pts
21 - 21pts
22 - 16pts
23 - 29pts
Total - 87pts

Zherdev
20 - 34pts
21 - 54pts
22 - 32pts
23 - 61pts
Total - 181pts
It was a very different league back when Jokinen was 20-23.

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06-12-2008, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goc Fanatic View Post
Jokinen is a goal-scoring center. Nash is a goal-scoring winger. This, like the Marleau to Columbus reports, makes little sense from the perspective of the Jackets trying to find an elite set-up man for their franchise player. Brad Richards was probably their best shot at doing that and they blew it and with precious little in the way of elite playmaking pivots on the trading block, I really don't know where C-bus goes from here. Certainly not settling for a scoring power center to play with a near carbon copy on his wing.
wrong. He is a playmaking center with an awesome slapshot.

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06-12-2008, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
wrong. He is a playmaking center with an awesome slapshot.
Nah. Olli is a shoot-first center.

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06-12-2008, 03:54 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
It was a very different league back when Jokinen was 20-23.
zherdev played before the lockout too ya know.

I think that Zherdev and the 6th for Jokinen would be a good trade, not like cbj needs the pick anyways, other than maybe schenn, there basically set for forwards/centers.

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06-12-2008, 03:54 PM
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Why would Columbus deal the sixth spot in the draft before the draft. What if a guy like Filatov does slide to us. We could either draft him or I'm certain there would be quite a few teams looking for a player like this where we could get much better value.

Like I said earlier this would make no sense for the Jackets to trade any of their first round picks until the night of the draft. And going on what Howson said, it's going to have to be for a very good player ala Speeza for that 6th pick. Though for a guy like Speeza I'm certain the Jackets would add a quality player along with that 6th pick.

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06-12-2008, 03:58 PM
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Nah. Olli is a shoot-first center.
could you do me a favor and find me a reliable source who wrote this? B/c as a Florida fan and someone who watches 75-80 games....I sincerely feel that you are just flat out wrong

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06-12-2008, 03:58 PM
  #97
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Actually, I don't count JM's intelligence to be much more than a rock, in all honesty.Nice fractured English, by the way. It really helps your case.

I also don't see this deal happening. As someone earlier said: Columbus won't include Zherdev in the deal. Florida won't do the deal without Zherdev. Therefore, the deal won't happen. Strachan's wrong and needs to just shut up.

Have a nice day, everybody.
Totally agree .Dealing Zherdev in the deal doesn't help them.
Zherdev and the 6th overall pick is too much to give considering the any of the top 6 picks should all turn out to be really good players.If Zherdev is in the deal than it's the 19th pick going with him. If he's not in the deal than it's the 6th overall plus but not Zherdev.

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06-12-2008, 04:02 PM
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it makes no sense... both nash and olli are shooters. wouldn't columbus want more of a playmaker?

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06-12-2008, 04:02 PM
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i feel your pain on about people ragging on teams they know little about. i think Columbus is a lot closer to the playoffs than people are giving them credit for
Backing up kidAcbj, if the CBJ had kept on rolling as they were before the ASB & had we had a healthy Freddy Modin & the David Vyborny of the last few seasons (the two combined for 106 pts in 06-07), we may have made it this year.

That said, we still need a center badly.

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06-12-2008, 04:32 PM
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Backing up kidAcbj, if the CBJ had kept on rolling as they were before the ASB & had we had a healthy Freddy Modin & the David Vyborny of the last few seasons (the two combined for 106 pts in 06-07), we may have made it this year.

That said, we still need a center badly.
While I agree in theory (CBJ not being WAY out of the play-off's) pretty much every team in the NHL can make a case for making the play-off's if nothing goes wrong last year. (Hawks if Toews isn't hurt, LA if team played the first 3/4 of the season like they ended it, EDM if Horcoff & Souray weren't hurt, Tampa if Boyle wasn't hurt, etc).

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