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Olli Jokinen likely heading to Columbus

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Old
06-12-2008, 05:03 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
While I agree in theory (CBJ not being WAY out of the play-off's) pretty much every team in the NHL can make a case for making the play-off's if nothing goes wrong last year. (Hawks if Toews isn't hurt, LA if team played the first 3/4 of the season like they ended it, EDM if Horcoff & Souray weren't hurt, Tampa if Boyle wasn't hurt, etc).
true. but there is a dif. in needing a lot to happen and just a little. or needing career years out of guys or just their avg. CBJ are PROBABLY in the playoffs if they get avg. years out of V and Modin.

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06-12-2008, 06:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by OldGoaltender View Post
Why would Columbus deal the sixth spot in the draft before the draft. What if a guy like Filatov does slide to us. We could either draft him or I'm certain there would be quite a few teams looking for a player like this where we could get much better value.

Like I said earlier this would make no sense for the Jackets to trade any of their first round picks until the night of the draft. And going on what Howson said, it's going to have to be for a very good player ala Speeza for that 6th pick. Though for a guy like Speeza I'm certain the Jackets would add a quality player along with that 6th pick.
The catch is this -- how many big deals actual occur DURING the draft? Not too many that I recall, though I'm certainly open to the recollections of others.

It seems over the last few years that all the big player-centric deals went down before the draft (Vokun, Toskala last year, for example; Yashin to the Isles) not when teams were on the clock. Now there are certainly pick-swaps at the draft and some depth player deals.

If Columbus is going to move the #6 for a player, it'll happen before the draft. Now they may trade down on the clock at the draft, that's certainly not unheard of, but I don't see any "big deal" for the #6, so to speak, occuring during the draft.

Once the drafting starts, I think Columbus keeps the pick.

My two pennies.

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06-12-2008, 06:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by goliath5151 View Post
The point is Trading Zherdev+ for Jokinen doesnt make sense for Columbus.
Trading Jokinen for anything less than Zherdev+ is not enough for JM

THEREFOR the trade doesnt happen!!
Agreed, word for word! This trade has no chance, because niether side will budge.

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06-12-2008, 06:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I'm too lazy to look at HockeyDB but I believe last year was OJ's career-lowest year for a full 82 games and it was Zherdev's best - and OJ still came out on top. But disregarding that - Columbus gets rid of a guy who was as little as a year ago a proven headache for a legitimate first-line centre who's usually hovering around the 80-90 point mark. They also (finally) get someone to play with Rick Nash...who cares if it's not that ideal playmaking center they've dreamed of? Who do they have as their first line center going into next year...Manny Malhotra?

If Columbus is worried about losing their secondary scoring, finding a guy to put up 30g/60p like they had with Zherdev is not impossible. Hell sign Michael Ryder n the offseason for cheap and hope for the best. Guys like Jokinen, on the other hand, are much more difficult to come by
.
Great post! really explained a lot. I think the Zherdev+6th for Jokinen would be a win/win for both teams. I still don't get why Columbus fans wouldn't take that. Usually the team that is getting the better player is the one that wins the deal in everyones eyes and they would be getting the better player. Don't forget that Jokinen hovers around that 80-90 point mark per season without really having good wingers to play with him on that top line. Give him somebody like Nash, and I think Olli would pot 100 points easy for you guys. I really find it hard to believe you guys aren't willing to trade Zherdev+6th pick for a 100 point player.

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06-12-2008, 06:47 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
The catch is this -- how many big deals actual occur DURING the draft? Not too many that I recall, though I'm certainly open to the recollections of others.

It seems over the last few years that all the big player-centric deals went down before the draft (Vokun, Toskala last year, for example; Yashin to the Isles) not when teams were on the clock. Now there are certainly pick-swaps at the draft and some depth player deals.

If Columbus is going to move the #6 for a player, it'll happen before the draft. Now they may trade down on the clock at the draft, that's certainly not unheard of, but I don't see any "big deal" for the #6, so to speak, occuring during the draft.

Once the drafting starts, I think Columbus keeps the pick.

My two pennies.
The 2006 draft had Tanguay moved for Leopold and two 2nd's. It also saw Demitra traded for O'Sullivan and the pick that became Trevor Lewis.

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06-12-2008, 07:24 PM
  #106
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Great post! really explained a lot. I think the Zherdev+6th for Jokinen would be a win/win for both teams. I still don't get why Columbus fans wouldn't take that. Usually the team that is getting the better player is the one that wins the deal in everyones eyes and they would be getting the better player. Don't forget that Jokinen hovers around that 80-90 point mark per season without really having good wingers to play with him on that top line. Give him somebody like Nash, and I think Olli would pot 100 points easy for you guys. I really find it hard to believe you guys aren't willing to trade Zherdev+6th pick for a 100 point player.
Beezer, IMO the reason why it's not a good deal from CLM's POV is that they only have 2 legit scoring line players on their team - Nash & Zherdev. If they trade Zherdev & 6th overall for OJ, they still only 2 scoring line player, and they are reduced to a 1 line team. It might be a hell of a line, but that line alone isn't likely to generate enough offense to carry the team.

FLA is in a different situation in that they have a very good "2nd" line already.

Maybe if the UFA signing period was before the draft it would change the situation. Then Howson would have a better idea if he can add some offensive depth without moving assets.

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06-12-2008, 08:04 PM
  #107
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I'll give you a pro and a con.

I see Beezer's point to an extent. It is something we've been debating on the CBJ boards. Wingers ar easier to find than centers and the UFA market for wingers is deeper. While the CBJ can't find an exact replacement for Zherdev elsewhere, they could find a guy who could provide 80-90 percent of Z's production at least. That would mean a net gain for the CBJ.

Not a big deal -- if the CBJ only had one or two holes to fill. The bigger issue is that Columbus has multiple important needs -- two top 6 centers, two offensive-able dmen (at least one of very-high ability) and at least one more scoring winger. To get Jokinen, they'd have to burn multiple high-end assets and while they'd fill one big hole, they'd still have five holes to fill and less things to use to fill them.

I'm not opposed to moving Zherdev in the right deal, and Jokinen certainly would be on my short list of players to consider moving him for. Columbus fans don't like to talk about it, but Z has a contract negotiation coming up and the last one was a pain. He seems settled as a player, but who knows what'll happen next summer when its time to talk about money again? I want to think everything will go well, but who knows?
CBJ management, I'm sure, already has thoughts on this issue. And I think its a reason they could consider moving Zherdev. Tough pill to swallow, but I'm sure if it comes to that, management has a plan.

We'll see.

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06-12-2008, 08:35 PM
  #108
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not bad. He will join his ex teamate, Roberto the following year.

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06-13-2008, 12:59 AM
  #109
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I wonder what phoenix would offer

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06-13-2008, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
I'll give you a pro and a con.

I see Beezer's point to an extent. It is something we've been debating on the CBJ boards. Wingers ar easier to find than centers and the UFA market for wingers is deeper. While the CBJ can't find an exact replacement for Zherdev elsewhere, they could find a guy who could provide 80-90 percent of Z's production at least. That would mean a net gain for the CBJ.

Not a big deal -- if the CBJ only had one or two holes to fill. The bigger issue is that Columbus has multiple important needs -- two top 6 centers, two offensive-able dmen (at least one of very-high ability) and at least one more scoring winger. To get Jokinen, they'd have to burn multiple high-end assets and while they'd fill one big hole, they'd still have five holes to fill and less things to use to fill them.

I'm not opposed to moving Zherdev in the right deal, and Jokinen certainly would be on my short list of players to consider moving him for. Columbus fans don't like to talk about it, but Z has a contract negotiation coming up and the last one was a pain. He seems settled as a player, but who knows what'll happen next summer when its time to talk about money again? I want to think everything will go well, but who knows?
CBJ management, I'm sure, already has thoughts on this issue. And I think its a reason they could consider moving Zherdev. Tough pill to swallow, but I'm sure if it comes to that, management has a plan.

We'll see.
As you correctly observe, CBJ has alot of important holes to fill on both offense and defense. Another way of saying the same thing is that CBJ lacks a talented roster and needs to continue the rebuilding process for a few more years prior to trading for a Jokinen. Why mortgage your future unless acquiring the star player puts you over the top?

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06-13-2008, 07:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by puckdaddy View Post
As you correctly observe, CBJ has alot of important holes to fill on both offense and defense. Another way of saying the same thing is that CBJ lacks a talented roster and needs to continue the rebuilding process for a few more years prior to trading for a Jokinen. Why mortgage your future unless acquiring the star player puts you over the top?
At the same time, Columbus are most likely starting to feel the pressure of reaching the playoffs quite heavily. They have great fans, but slowly their patience is running dry. Unfortunately I don't think that CBJ have ti tome rebuild for few more years. They finally handed the team to Nash this season (with him named captain). Rick has two more years in his contract, during that tenure Columbus probably has to make playoffs and somehow organised attempt this year is far better for support than trying to purchase the spot on Nash's contract year.

In that sense, all stars are aligned for major move in Columbus this off-season. I am not convinced that Jokinen is best fit for the team, but he might be actually available, something that increases his value for CBJ. Moreover, with very thin UFA corp in center this year (especially in top-line talent), filling a hole in first line center by creating a hole in 2nd line wing could be sensible move for CBJ.

And perhaps CBJ could plugg Voracek to wing of Nash-Jokinen line. I have understood that Jakub plays the playmakers game, so giving him Nash and Jokinen to feed should make fans drool.

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06-13-2008, 07:57 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
I'll give you a pro and a con.

I see Beezer's point to an extent. It is something we've been debating on the CBJ boards. Wingers ar easier to find than centers and the UFA market for wingers is deeper. While the CBJ can't find an exact replacement for Zherdev elsewhere, they could find a guy who could provide 80-90 percent of Z's production at least. That would mean a net gain for the CBJ.

Not a big deal -- if the CBJ only had one or two holes to fill. The bigger issue is that Columbus has multiple important needs -- two top 6 centers, two offensive-able dmen (at least one of very-high ability) and at least one more scoring winger. To get Jokinen, they'd have to burn multiple high-end assets and while they'd fill one big hole, they'd still have five holes to fill and less things to use to fill them.

I'm not opposed to moving Zherdev in the right deal, and Jokinen certainly would be on my short list of players to consider moving him for. Columbus fans don't like to talk about it, but Z has a contract negotiation coming up and the last one was a pain. He seems settled as a player, but who knows what'll happen next summer when its time to talk about money again? I want to think everything will go well, but who knows?
CBJ management, I'm sure, already has thoughts on this issue. And I think its a reason they could consider moving Zherdev. Tough pill to swallow, but I'm sure if it comes to that, management has a plan.

We'll see.
Great points. Actually makes us Panther fans understand a little more why Columbus would be a bit hesitant on pulling or not pulling the trigger on a deal like this. If I were Columbus I would only do it if I knew I could get a winger or two in free agency.

Anyone know how Columbus is with their cap room??? Would they consider a deal more if we added somebody like Mike Van Ryn?

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06-13-2008, 08:08 AM
  #113
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Great points. Actually makes us Panther fans understand a little more why Columbus would be a bit hesitant on pulling or not pulling the trigger on a deal like this. If I were Columbus I would only do it if I knew I could get a winger or two in free agency.

Anyone know how Columbus is with their cap room??? Would they consider a deal more if we added somebody like Mike Van Ryn?
Columbus has currently approximately 23 million in cap space tied for next season, with Leclaire as main UFA/RFA piece still to be signed. I am not sure about their internal budget, but all information so far has indicated that even if such exists, team has over 20 million to spend this off-season. Trade that could allow them to fill multiple holes (such as the rumoured Z + 6th for Marleau + Carle) would naturally be more favourable for CBJ (naturally assuming that pieces are sufficiently good).

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06-13-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
Great points. Actually makes us Panther fans understand a little more why Columbus would be a bit hesitant on pulling or not pulling the trigger on a deal like this. If I were Columbus I would only do it if I knew I could get a winger or two in free agency.

Anyone know how Columbus is with their cap room??? Would they consider a deal more if we added somebody like Mike Van Ryn?
Cap situation is great. They have money to spend.

Van Ryn would be interesting. He could fill that 2nd offensive-dman role the CBJ need filled.

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06-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by puckdaddy View Post
As you correctly observe, CBJ has alot of important holes to fill on both offense and defense. Another way of saying the same thing is that CBJ lacks a talented roster and needs to continue the rebuilding process for a few more years prior to trading for a Jokinen. Why mortgage your future unless acquiring the star player puts you over the top?
Its not like we're talking about trading for someone like Sundin with only a couple of years left in him. Jokinen is only 29 years old, so if Columbus traded for him and signed him to a 6 or 7 I think they should do it. Having a player of his caliber will help out the other guys on this team.

A first line of Nash-Jokinen-Whoever could be pretty awesome. Then even if they have to use Zherdev as part of the trade CBJ can sign someone like Malone or Huselius for their second line. Granted they really could use a second line center, is there any chance that Derick Brassard or Gilbert Brule could handle that this season?

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06-13-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AgentM View Post
Its not like we're talking about trading for someone like Sundin with only a couple of years left in him. Jokinen is only 29 years old, so if Columbus traded for him and signed him to a 6 or 7 I think they should do it. Having a player of his caliber will help out the other guys on this team.

A first line of Nash-Jokinen-Whoever could be pretty awesome. Then even if they have to use Zherdev as part of the trade CBJ can sign someone like Malone or Huselius for their second line. Granted they really could use a second line center, is there any chance that Derick Brassard or Gilbert Brule could handle that this season?
I was thinking the same thing here. Columbus gets a guy in his prime and should be for another 4 yrs at least. I think Florida should sweeten the deal by including Van Ryn (who for them is a good trade chip with all the d-men they have now). Van Ryn at least gives them a decent option for a top 4 guy with the expectation that Hainsey is gone.

I also had the same thought process that I was expecting Brassard to be up with the big club after having a solid AHL season. Put him and Voracek together with Jokinen and Nash and the 3rd forward on both of those lines can be grinders for all it matters (I'd stick Modin on the line with Voracek & Brassard to give them a veteran presence). Those are 2 very good lines if you ask me and like you said, sign a winger in free agency to fill out that last spot.

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06-13-2008, 01:32 PM
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Im sorry to hear Portz write about OJ whom i would love to see as a Jacket, a ton more than Marleau.

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06-13-2008, 02:25 PM
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I was thinking the same thing here. Columbus gets a guy in his prime and should be for another 4 yrs at least. I think Florida should sweeten the deal by including Van Ryn (who for them is a good trade chip with all the d-men they have now). Van Ryn at least gives them a decent option for a top 4 guy with the expectation that Hainsey is gone.

I also had the same thought process that I was expecting Brassard to be up with the big club after having a solid AHL season. Put him and Voracek together with Jokinen and Nash and the 3rd forward on both of those lines can be grinders for all it matters (I'd stick Modin on the line with Voracek & Brassard to give them a veteran presence). Those are 2 very good lines if you ask me and like you said, sign a winger in free agency to fill out that last spot.
That sounds like a team that can play some exciting hockey and put some numbers up in the win column to me! Especially with a potential star goalie and a good defensive scheme.

Is Hainsey not interested in playing for Columbus next year? If the Blue Jackets could pull of the Jokinen trade and pull in another good FA winger maybe that would sway him to stay!

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06-13-2008, 06:15 PM
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That sounds like a team that can play some exciting hockey and put some numbers up in the win column to me! Especially with a potential star goalie and a good defensive scheme.

Is Hainsey not interested in playing for Columbus next year? If the Blue Jackets could pull of the Jokinen trade and pull in another good FA winger maybe that would sway him to stay!
The CBJ do not have enough young talent to acquire Jokinen without wrecking the team so it is not going to happen. More likely, due to a ton of available salary cap space, the CBJ acquire a winger like Malone through free agency and a D-man. They can then acquire a young talented center like Vermette with their second first round pick and trade a bag of pucks for a veteran center like Stumpel on a one year contract.

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06-13-2008, 08:53 PM
  #120
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Its not like we're talking about trading for someone like Sundin with only a couple of years left in him. Jokinen is only 29 years old, so if Columbus traded for him and signed him to a 6 or 7 I think they should do it. Having a player of his caliber will help out the other guys on this team.

A first line of Nash-Jokinen-Whoever could be pretty awesome. Then even if they have to use Zherdev as part of the trade CBJ can sign someone like Malone or Huselius for their second line. Granted they really could use a second line center, is there any chance that Derick Brassard or Gilbert Brule could handle that this season?
The problem is, Columbus is a long shot to make the playoffs next season with it's current roster. Trading Zherdev for Jokinen is definately fills a big hole, but it opens up another one. The team would still be unlikely to get for a playoff spot with it's current roster+ Jokinen, sans Zherdev. Brule, Brassard and/or Voracek might be ready to make an impact, but it isn't a wise idea to count your chickens before they hatch. Similarly they may be able to sign a Huselius/Malone, or even a Hossa/Jagr, but Howson probably won't plan his offseason around something that might not happen. This leaves the Jackets with a team that has a good possibility of missing the playoffs, whether or not they trade Zherdev for Jokinen.

Basically, due to fan/ownership pressure, Howson is currently in the unenviable position of trying to make the playoffs with a team that should be in the last phases of rebuilding. He needs to find a way to win now without sacrificing the future. Jokinen certainly isn't over the hill, but giving up a 6th overall pick in a good draft to go along with a pretty good young player like Zherdev (who's putting up similar numbers to Jokinen at the same age) simply doesn't do this. There's still a gaping hole, and it takes away a high draft pick that has a possibility of making the jump to the NHL this year and filling that hole, or another, depending on who is picked. There would have to be something significant added from Florida's end, or the pick or player would have to be changed on Columbus's end, in order for Howson to really consider it. Zherdev+19th overall is more along the lines with something Columbus could afford to do.

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06-13-2008, 09:09 PM
  #121
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The problem is, Columbus is a long shot to make the playoffs next season with it's current roster. Trading Zherdev for Jokinen is definately fills a big hole, but it opens up another one. The team would still be unlikely to get for a playoff spot with it's current roster+ Jokinen, sans Zherdev. Brule, Brassard and/or Voracek might be ready to make an impact, but it isn't a wise idea to count your chickens before they hatch. Similarly they may be able to sign a Huselius/Malone, or even a Hossa/Jagr, but Howson probably won't plan his offseason around something that might not happen. This leaves the Jackets with a team that has a good possibility of missing the playoffs, whether or not they trade Zherdev for Jokinen.

Basically, due to fan/ownership pressure, Howson is currently in the unenviable position of trying to make the playoffs with a team that should be in the last phases of rebuilding. He needs to find a way to win now without sacrificing the future. Jokinen certainly isn't over the hill, but giving up a 6th overall pick in a good draft to go along with a pretty good young player like Zherdev (who's putting up similar numbers to Jokinen at the same age) simply doesn't do this. There's still a gaping hole, and it takes away a high draft pick that has a possibility of making the jump to the NHL this year and filling that hole, or another, depending on who is picked. There would have to be something significant added from Florida's end, or the pick or player would have to be changed on Columbus's end, in order for Howson to really consider it. Zherdev+19th overall is more along the lines with something Columbus could afford to do.
What about Zherdev+6th overall+Prospect for Jokinen+Van Ryn+Stumpel?

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06-13-2008, 09:19 PM
  #122
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What about Zherdev+6th overall+Prospect for Jokinen+Van Ryn+Stumpel?

NO THANK YOU!

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06-13-2008, 09:24 PM
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What about Zherdev+6th overall+Prospect for Jokinen+Van Ryn+Stumpel?
Change "Van Ryn" to "Bouwmeester, after signing a long-term contract for cheap" and we'll talk.

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06-14-2008, 12:26 AM
  #124
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Change "Van Ryn" to "Bouwmeester, after signing a long-term contract for cheap" and we'll talk.
Bouw signed long term is staying with the Cats, no reason to trade him, especially for that package.

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06-14-2008, 07:32 AM
  #125
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Ill give it a go.....

How about a three way deal including Ottawa.

Florida: Jokinen -> 6th overall pick + Vermette (RFA)
Columbus: 6th overall pick + P. Leclair (RFA) -> Spezza + Emery
Ottawa: Spezza + Emery + Vermette (RFA) -> Jokinen + P. LeClair (RFA)

Reasons Florida does this because:
A) a first round draft pick (DeBoer gets Boedker?).
B) a strong two-way Center (50point player) who is great at faceoffs.
Reason Columbus does this because:
A) Gets a playmaking Center to play with Nash whithout giving up Zherdev.
B) Emery has the skills, just needs a fresh start. Give him season to prove himself. If he doesnt grap it..... Mason is ready to step up.
Reason Ottawa does this because:
A) Jokinen fills the whole of Spezza, and is a much more allround player.
B) Gets their goalie problem solved.

Come on flame away..... you know you want to.....

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