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Is Mike Green waiting for offer sheet?

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06-06-2008, 11:46 PM
  #1
sunnydaycrash
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Is Mike Green waiting for offer sheet?

http://boards.washingtoncaps.com/ind...howtopic=71871Based on a Mcphee radio interview on XM204.


According to Mcphee,talks are stalled on some fronts and he may be willing to lose out on UFAs and RFAs.
This is all speculative,but what is everyone`s take on Mike Green waiting for an offer sheet?



I obviously would rather not see Green go,....at all,BUT if someone offers him something in the 6 million area for over 5 yrs...ADIOS!!!!
Take the four 1st round draft picks and run.(not really sure and the exact compensation)
Having Ovy,Semin,and Backstrom didn`t hurt Green`s stats.
Put him with the Leafs(no offense Leafs fans) and there`s a good chance he ends up in the -20 range and only hits 40 points.
Green is a fabulous offensive defensemen and in time will be a solid defensive d-man but his character is a tell tale sign that Lidstrom he will not be......Alzner on the other hand is someone I wouldn`t let go.
Sure having Green and Alzner is the ideal situation but Karl Azner will be the Caps Lidstrom.
He may only max out at 40-50 points but he will be their rock.
The Caps do have to lock up Huet cos without him they`re toast.
Losing Green would hurt but it won`t keep them from the playoffs.
Here`s hoping Mike takes 4-5 over 4yrs.


Last edited by sunnydaycrash: 06-06-2008 at 11:52 PM.
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06-06-2008, 11:57 PM
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Nizdizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
http://boards.washingtoncaps.com/ind...howtopic=71871Based on a Mcphee radio interview on XM204.


According to Mcphee,talks are stalled on some fronts and he may be willing to lose out on UFAs and RFAs.
This is all speculative,but what is everyone`s take on Mike Green waiting for an offer sheet?



I obviously would rather not see Green go,....at all,BUT if someone offers him something in the 6 million area for over 5 yrs...ADIOS!!!!
Take the four 1st round draft picks and run.(not really sure and the exact compensation)
Having Ovy,Semin,and Backstrom didn`t hurt Green`s stats.
Put him with the Leafs(no offense Leafs fans) and there`s a good chance he ends up in the -20 range and only hits 40 points.
Green is a fabulous offensive defensemen and in time will be a solid defensive d-man but his character is a tell tale sign that Lidstrom he will not be......Alzner on the other hand is someone I wouldn`t let go.
Sure having Green and Alzner is the ideal situation but Karl Azner will be the Caps Lidstrom.
He may only max out at 40-50 points but he will be their rock.
The Caps do have to lock up Huet cos without him they`re toast.
Losing Green would hurt but it won`t keep them from the playoffs.
Here`s hoping Mike takes 4-5 over 4yrs.
Well, you can be sure that the Leafs won't offer him anything near 6mill. Then we have:

McCabe 5.75
Green 6.0
Kubina 5.0
Kaberle 4.25


21 mill in 4 offensive defenders

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06-06-2008, 11:59 PM
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Laoghaire
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At the current cap a team could offer $5,859,412 per year and only lose 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd. Or of they were smart they could offer $4,687,527 per year and lose a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Assuming the cap goes up the $4,687,527 figure would reach over $5 million.

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06-07-2008, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnanigans View Post
At the current cap a team could offer $5,859,412 per year and only lose 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd. Or of they were smart they could offer $4,687,527 per year and lose a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Assuming the cap goes up the $4,687,527 figure would reach over $5 million.
The Caps would match any of those totals IMO.

So it's a moot point really.

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06-07-2008, 12:23 AM
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It's GMGM, he is probably doing this as a mind game with the players.

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06-07-2008, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnanigans View Post
At the current cap a team could offer $5,859,412 per year and only lose 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd. Or of they were smart they could offer $4,687,527 per year and lose a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Assuming the cap goes up the $4,687,527 figure would reach over $5 million.
Thanks for the numbers. At 5.8 the Caps should walk away, but they should match the 4.8 offer. In fact, it would be a bargain.

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06-07-2008, 12:48 AM
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Thanks for the numbers. At 5.8 the Caps should walk away, but they should match the 4.8 offer. In fact, it would be a bargain.
I think the Caps would match pretty much any offer up to the "4 1sts" point, wherever that ends up. Unless he believes one of the two 1sts (for the lower salary bracket) would be a surefire lottery pick, then maybe he considers it.

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06-07-2008, 12:53 AM
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I think the Caps would match pretty much any offer up to the "4 1sts" point, wherever that ends up. Unless he believes one of the two 1sts (for the lower salary bracket) would be a surefire lottery pick, then maybe he considers it.
whats the point ... in order to win the deal, one of those compensation picks needs to be at least as good as Mike Green.

and then he has to pay that player what he wont pay Mike Green. just sign your own player.

too bad though, under the old CBA this wouldnt be an issue. Green would be signing a 3 year deal for about 1.3 per season or he would retire.

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06-07-2008, 01:02 AM
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whats the point ... in order to win the deal, one of those compensation picks needs to be at least as good as Mike Green.

and then he has to pay that player what he wont pay Mike Green. just sign your own player.

too bad though, under the old CBA this wouldnt be an issue. Green would be signing a 3 year deal for about 1.3 per season or he would retire.
Yeah, retiring is a much better option than playing tax free in Russia.

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06-07-2008, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DR View Post
whats the point ... in order to win the deal, one of those compensation picks needs to be at least as good as Mike Green.

and then he has to pay that player what he wont pay Mike Green. just sign your own player.

too bad though, under the old CBA this wouldnt be an issue. Green would be signing a 3 year deal for about 1.3 per season or he would retire.
It's just a matter of not having the cap space to spend on him if it gets to be that high. It's not about winning, per se, it's just about losing as little as possible. At some point he's got to draw the line, and in my mind that line will be whatever it takes to get 4 1sts. Huet, Morrisonn, and Laich all need to be signed, Fedorov could be brought back, etc. They can't spend 6+ on Green if they want any flexibility. With the compensation picks, at least the player(s) won't cost serious money for 5,6,7+ years.

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06-07-2008, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
It's just a matter of not having the cap space to spend on him if it gets to be that high. It's not about winning, per se, it's just about losing as little as possible. At some point he's got to draw the line, and in my mind that line will be whatever it takes to get 4 1sts. Huet, Morrisonn, and Laich all need to be signed, Fedorov could be brought back, etc. They can't spend 6+ on Green if they want any flexibility. With the compensation picks, at least the player(s) won't cost serious money for 5,6,7+ years.
I have to agree. Green is worth more than two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd from a winning team that would pick towards the end of each round. Many late 1st round picks never make the NHL, and most of those that do are never better than 3rd line and 4th line players.

I suspect Green knows that, which is why he is pushing for the amount of money he is.

Edit:

To return (4) 1st round picks in compensation, a team would have to offer ~$6.55 million per year assuming the salary cap rises to $56.3 million, as projected. Anything less than $6.55 million would only return (2) 1st, (1) 2nd, and (1) 3rd round pick. Do you really see the Caps matching an offer for $6.5 million a year?


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06-07-2008, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Yeah, retiring is a much better option than playing tax free in Russia.
it was hyperbole ... basically it meant under the old CBA, players in Mike Green's category had almost no leverage and the team set the rate the player would play for.

hence, if he didnt like the Caps offer of 1.3m, his option would be to retire (amongst very few others).

just a figure of speach.

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06-07-2008, 01:21 AM
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I have to agree. Green is worth more than two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd for a winning team that would pick towards the end of each round. Many late 1st round picks never make the NHL, and most of those that do are never better than 3rd line and 4th line players.

I suspect Green knows that, which is why he is pushing for the amount of money he is.
Which, ironically, is exactly where Green was taken (29th). Maybe GMGM can find another gem like him, but sticking with the original is (I'm sure) what everyone would prefer.

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06-07-2008, 01:34 AM
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If Green is asking for $6.5 million ($6.55 million is the minimum to receive four 1sts with a $56.3 million cap)...Do you think the Caps allow him to make it to restricted free agency? Or do you think you trade him before that?

The moment Green enters RFA, the Caps can't pick and choose what picks they receive. Whatever team offers the most money will win. For argument's sake, suppose Detroit offered Green $6.5 million per year for five years. The Caps -- assuming they didn't match -- would get two poor 1st round picks, a poor 2nd, and a poor 3rd. Don't you think they would rather trade Green to a team like the Kings or Islanders before he hits FA and get a top5 pick in the draft?

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06-07-2008, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenAF View Post
If Green is asking for $6.5 million ($6.55 million is the minimum to receive four 1sts with a $56.3 million cap)...Do you think the Caps allow him to make it to restricted free agency? Or do you think you trade him before that?

The moment Green enters RFA, the Caps can't pick and choose what picks they receive. Whatever team offers the most money will win. For argument's sake, suppose Detroit offered Green $6.5 million per year for five years. The Caps -- assuming they didn't match -- would get two poor 1st round picks, a poor 2nd, and a poor 3rd. Don't you think they would rather trade Green to a team like the Kings or Islanders before he hits FA and get a top5 pick in the draft?
I don't know if they trade him. Maybe match a high offer and then try to trade him (less likely, sure). I expect, if he can't get a deal done, GMGM will hold on to him and hope Green doesn't get that ridiculously high offer sheet. If he can't afford him, he lets him go, but if an offer comes that he can handle, GMGM matches. I don't know what value he has around the rest of the league, but I guess GMGM will have to try to figure it out as he's determining what to do.

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06-07-2008, 01:54 AM
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this discussion is starting on a flawed bit of speculation. On XM a while back, Leonsis said they will match for Mike Green.

At 4 firsts, I think they think about it... but if its 6.5 at something like 7-8 years, they probably do it.



I really don't think this hold up is much of an issue. The Caps want Mike Green to be here. From all accounts, he wants to be here as well.

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06-07-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenAF View Post
If Green is asking for $6.5 million ($6.55 million is the minimum to receive four 1sts with a $56.3 million cap)...Do you think the Caps allow him to make it to restricted free agency? Or do you think you trade him before that?
BTW, the % increases to the RFA limits are not directly tied to the same numbers that determine % increases to the cap. You can't simply add the same %'s to determine each for next season.

Odds are next year's cap will be less than $56.3mil and the cutoff for four 1st rounders will be higher than $6.5mil.

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06-07-2008, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenAF View Post
If Green is asking for $6.5 million ($6.55 million is the minimum to receive four 1sts with a $56.3 million cap)...Do you think the Caps allow him to make it to restricted free agency? Or do you think you trade him before that?

The moment Green enters RFA, the Caps can't pick and choose what picks they receive. Whatever team offers the most money will win. For argument's sake, suppose Detroit offered Green $6.5 million per year for five years. The Caps -- assuming they didn't match -- would get two poor 1st round picks, a poor 2nd, and a poor 3rd. Don't you think they would rather trade Green to a team like the Kings or Islanders before he hits FA and get a top5 pick in the draft?
I don't think the cap will be that high. Maybe 54-55M


Can't see them trading him, unless someone offers more them 4 1sts value wise. Something like Green+ for Malkin or something crazy like that(yes I know that won't happen, just an example).

Otherwise they see what happens as an RFA. If the deal gets above 6.25M(I think that should be around 4 1sts) then Green is going to be giving up big time years. 5+ easy. So they look at the length of the deal and the age they'll have him till, as well as the team who has the successful offer and where they will likely finish in the near future, and decide based on that. For example if it's Detroit @ 6.25M for 8 years, they match in a heartbeat, if it's Atlanta @ 6.75 for 5 years, then they likely don't as those 09 and 10 draft picks could be very nice. They evaluate based on the all possible information and decide what is best for the Caps.

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06-07-2008, 02:03 AM
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Can't see them trading him, unless someone offers more them 4 1sts value wise. Something like Green+ for Malkin or something crazy like that(yes I know that won't happen, just an example).

Otherwise they see what happens as an RFA. If the deal gets above 6M(I think that should be around 4 1sts) then Green is going to be giving up big time years. 5+ easy. So they look at the length of the deal and the age they'll have him till, as well as the team who has the successful offer and where they will likely finish in the near future, and decide based on that. For example if it's Detroit @ 6M for 8 years, they match in a heartbeat, if it's Atlanta @ 6.75 for 5 years, then they likely don't as those 09 and 10 draft picks could be very nice. They evaluate based on the all possible information and decide what is best for the Caps.
The problem is, the Caps probably can't afford 6+, regardless of the term, because this coming season is the one that will be their worst capwise. Huet should break 5, Laich could be 1.5+, Morrisonn could be 2+, who knows what Fedorov wants (although he's, admittedly, a luxury that can be left off), and then there are the other RFA's (Fehr, Gordon, Eminger), Alzner's 2+ cap hit (I think) if he makes the team, etc. In terms of matching the offer sheet, at some point it becomes a cap question, and not a value question.

For the record, I think this discussion is pretty much academic. I don't see Green getting that high an offer sheet (I don't really see him getting to that stage, period, but then who knows how things are really going).

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06-07-2008, 02:07 AM
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this discussion is starting on a flawed bit of speculation. On XM a while back, Leonsis said they will match for Mike Green.
That was a long time ago, before Green was the top scoring defenseman in the world championship, and before he was named to the IIHF all-star team.

When he said that, I don't think Leonsis expected to pay Green more than $4.5 or $5.0 million per year.

Quote:
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Otherwise they see what happens as an RFA. If the deal gets above 6.25M(I think that should be around 4 1sts) then Green is going to be giving up big time years. 5+ easy. So they look at the length of the deal and the age they'll have him till, as well as the team who has the successful offer and where they will likely finish in the near future, and decide based on that. For example if it's Detroit @ 6.25M for 8 years, they match in a heartbeat, if it's Atlanta @ 6.75 for 5 years, then they likely don't as those 09 and 10 draft picks could be very nice. They evaluate based on the all possible information and decide what is best for the Caps.
I don't think the Caps could afford either deal. Even if they could, I'm not sure they would agree to it with Lepisto (potentially a poor man's Green) waiting on the sidelines.

I still think the Caps take a big risk if they wait until July 1 because they have no idea what team will make the best offer. There's no way the Caps are going to get four 1st round picks in compensation, so do the Caps really want to risk getting just two late-round 1sts from a playoff team that offers $6.0 or $6.5 mil (i.e. just below the ceiling for four 1sts)?


Last edited by KenAF: 06-07-2008 at 02:40 AM.
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06-07-2008, 02:33 AM
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Ok so if the Caps do consider trading him say at the deadline,.....what could he fetch at this point?

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06-07-2008, 03:07 AM
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Just to put this in perspective... McPhee said the Caps would not make any moves during the trade deadline. So really most of the RFAs including Green will be signed within a week or two .

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06-07-2008, 09:00 AM
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according to nhlnumbers.com the capitals have 35.8 million already counting against the cap for next year.

with huet hopefully getting 5
fehr getting 1
gordon getting 1
morrisonn getting 2
laich getting 2
hopefully eminger not resigned


and with a cap of 55 it allows roughly 8-9 million to sign fedorov and green

6 million the caps might match


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06-07-2008, 09:04 AM
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Two relevant points:

1. McPhee keeps his dealings as close to the vest as anyone in the league. No one had a clue about the extent of Ovy's deal, for example.

2. The last time the organization let a defenseman walk for the 4 1st's compensation, that guy was Scott Stephens, and they regretted the decision for the balance of his career.

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06-07-2008, 09:13 AM
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I could see some teams throwing 6M for a good lenghtly deal if the cost is only 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Might not be the kind of deal Gainey love, but i think he could actually do it cap wise without much problem, Habs would let go Streit and get a top 4 of:
Komisarek-Markov
Green-Hamrlik

Not going to happen, but that's just to show that the Caps might actually have to get ready to throw a good 6M$+ if Green wants to test the RFA market... Especially since he's a rare commodity, been a Right handed defenseman.

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