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And Forsberg was rated like the 70'ish best prospect when the Flyers took him in the top 10. Did that make it a "stupid" pick as well?
Like PP said - drafting is anything but an exact science, and to blame someone for going off the board in what's turned out to be a weak draft year is just downright hypocrisy and ignorance.
Next 7 picks after Wheeler was selected: Montoya, Olesz, Picard, Smid, Valabik, Tukonen, Thelen. Which one of those studs would you want? I bet that the compensatory pick for Wheeler is worth significantly more than any one of those guys except Olesz & Smid.
I'd have taken Smid, or Olesz personally. I can't stand Blake Wheeler, just reminds me too much of Mike Rupp so if he becomes a Devil, that will suck. Go to the Rangers.
I'd have taken Smid, or Olesz personally. I can't stand Blake Wheeler, just reminds me too much of Mike Rupp so if he becomes a Devil, that will suck. Go to the Rangers.
Pretty easy to say now. The bottom line is that only 2 of the next 7 picks are likely (IMO) be better than Wheeler. It's not like 2003 when the Rangers took Jessiman and 5 of the next 8 picks are already 1st liner's or top pair d-men.
And Forsberg was rated like the 70'ish best prospect when the Flyers took him in the top 10. Did that make it a "stupid" pick as well?
Like PP said - drafting is anything but an exact science, and to blame someone for going off the board in what's turned out to be a weak draft year is just downright hypocrisy and ignorance.
Next 7 picks after Wheeler was selected: Montoya, Olesz, Picard, Smid, Valabik, Tukonen, Thelen. Which one of those studs would you want? I bet that the compensatory pick for Wheeler is worth significantly more than any one of those guys except Olesz & Smid.
lol@ Tukonen
or as they call him in Manchester, Bustokonen
we were discussing a possibility of a conspiricy between the trade between Phoenix and New York that sent Montoya for a second round pick..
hm..
If you're going to critcize a trade or call it a conspiracy, be sure you know the specifics of the trade. It was Montoya and Marcel Hossa for Lenveu, Sjostrom, and Gratton. The Rangers' motivation for trading Montoya was obvious, he was never going to get a chance to play in New York with Lundqvist locked up long term.
Just shouldn't have wasted 5th overall on this guy, that's all I'm saying. There were better picks, Wheeler would have been available later on.
Based on his talent, that remains to be seen. If he was not a good player that could make an impact, there wouldnt be so many teams offering him a max rookie contract. Its not Phoenix's fault he refused to sign with them. They made every effort.
Could someone enlighten me on what Wheeler has done to be labeled a 'clown off the ice' outside of exploiting a loophole in the CBA?
I know that, where I a talented hockey player given the opportunity to select my team of choice, I would absolutely do the same thing. There is a big difference between loyalty to a team that you have signed a contract with and loyalty to a team that merely called your name on draft day. If Blake Wheeler had tried to back out of a contractual commitment, then I to would be questioning his character and loyalty, but he never made any commitments to Phoenix that I am aware of.
The fact that the Coyotes went so far off the board and committed themselves to a guy like Wheeler only for him to basically spit in their faces speaks very lowly of Wheeler and no one else, IMO.
So if a company that you didn't want to work for called out your name at a convention without your consent, it would be spitting in their face to not work for them? You're all treating this as if Wheeler broke some kind of commitment. He didn't. These players are not property, just because a team calls out a name at the draft does not mean the player is obligated to sign and play for that team. Now, there is a CBA in place that allows the team that drafts a player certain advantages (exclusive rights to the player for a certain number of years), but if the player is willing to wait that out then it's completely legal for him to sign wherever he wants.
Backing out of a legal contract is dishonorable and illegal, refusing to sing one is not. I find it laughable that so many posters are blasting Wheeler for this when we would all prefer to choose our employer, rather than have them chose us.
But there is also something to be said for paying one's dues. Every player in the NHL, save for a few exceptions, played for the team that drafted them. I imagine they feel similarly to how many of these fans feel.
The draft is in place for a reason. If everyone could just pick and choose where they wanted to play, the landscape of this league would be drastically different. What Wheeler did was within the rules, yes, but he exploited an obscure loophole, and we don't even know why yet.
This is not strictly a business move, especially because it looks like Wheeler stands to lose a lot of money, at least in the short term. Simply, there must be something he personally dislikes about the Coyotes, and as a Coyotes fan, I take that personally.
What we do know, however, is that he basically said a few weeks ago that the ball was in Phoenix's court to get the deal done, and it was up to them if he would end up playing there. Well, the Coyotes offered him as much as they legally could (which, it should be mentioned again, is more than anyone else can offer), and he still walked.
Could someone enlighten me on what Wheeler has done to be labeled a 'clown off the ice' outside of exploiting a loophole in the CBA?
I know that, where I a talented hockey player given the opportunity to select my team of choice, I would absolutely do the same thing. There is a big difference between loyalty to a team that you have signed a contract with and loyalty to a team that merely called your name on draft day. If Blake Wheeler had tried to back out of a contractual commitment, then I to would be questioning his character and loyalty, but he never made any commitments to Phoenix that I am aware of.
Could someone enlighten me on what Wheeler has done to be labeled a 'clown off the ice' outside of exploiting a loophole in the CBA?
I know that, where I a talented hockey player given the opportunity to select my team of choice, I would absolutely do the same thing. There is a big difference between loyalty to a team that you have signed a contract with and loyalty to a team that merely called your name on draft day. If Blake Wheeler had tried to back out of a contractual commitment, then I to would be questioning his character and loyalty, but he never made any commitments to Phoenix that I am aware of.
There are some negative feelings from Coyote fans due to Wheeler stating "it's up to Phoenix to make it happen" when news of his decision to leave school first broke. Phoenix, offered the maximum allowed under the old CBA to do so and Wheeler then changed his tune to "it's not about the money". Phoenix fans are a little curious as to why he felt the need to shun their team after 4 years of having to fight off criticisms for his selection in what retrospect was an extremely weak draft class. Heck, this thread didn't make the second page before Phoenix fans were told how stupid they were for taking him in the first round let alone at the #5 selection. Of course Wheeler's perennial ranking in THN's Future Watch while other more highly touted players from that draft class have disappeared altogether is often completely ignored. Doesn't matter anymore I suppose but Phoenix fans have taken so much abuse about this kid that it would have been nice to see him justification first hand.
the pens are pretty deep with young talent, and are going to be pretty tight against the cap ceiling.... so i dont know why wheeler would want to play on a team that can't afford to pay him what he wants,
there are going to be a lot of less talented players cashing big pay checks from other teams because of getting their stats inflated by playing with sid and/or malkin.......as for making the top lines...the pens are not deep on the wing....so if he has any talent at all he will have a good shot to play there.
Last edited by The Old Master: 06-12-2008 at 09:00 PM.
But there is also something to be said for paying one's dues. Every player in the NHL, save for a few exceptions, played for the team that drafted them. I imagine they feel similarly to how many of these fans feel.
The draft is in place for a reason. If everyone could just pick and choose where they wanted to play, the landscape of this league would be drastically different. What Wheeler did was within the rules, yes, but he exploited an obscure loophole, and we don't even know why yet.
The draft is a result of a CBA negotiated between the league and the player's association. Wheeler is a member of neither of these organizations. Now, if he wants to play in the NHL he's going to have to abide by the letter of the law of the CBA, but in no way is he beholden to the 'spirit of the law' or to uphold the point of the draft for the league's sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
This is not strictly a business move, especially because it looks like Wheeler stands to lose a lot of money, at least in the short term. Simply, there must be something he personally dislikes about the Coyotes, and as a Coyotes fan, I take that personally.
And this moves us on to my next point, and that is that Wheeler surely turned down guaranteed money at some point and ran the risk of suffering a career ending injury. He paid a cost for his freedom. It's perfectly understandable that Coyotes fans might take this personally, but that is not my point. My point is that there is very little here to indicate that Wheeler has any sort of character or attitude issues. Last time I checked, not wanting to work and live in a particular city is not a character flaw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
What we do know, however, is that he basically said a few weeks ago that the ball was in Phoenix's court to get the deal done, and it was up to them if he would end up playing there. Well, the Coyotes offered him as much as they legally could (which, it should be mentioned again, is more than anyone else can offer), and he still walked.
Well, it sounds like he just didn't want to play in Phoenix. I can understand if Coyote fans take that personally, I know I would, but this doesn't really speak to him being any sort of malcontent, which is what he's been painted as. He sounds like a guy who was presented an opportunity to play wherever he wanted, and he took that opportunity.
What really bothers me here is that I’m sure none of the fans who are *****ing about wheeler and calling him a bad seed would like to be 'drafted' by an employer and not have any say in who or where they work. Given the opportunity, I would have done the same thing that Wheeler did, and I think most of us would.
Now, the CBA exists for the good of the league, and I don't think we need to worry about this becoming a trend because most prospects aren’t going to turn down guaranteed money when they could get hurt tomorrow and never see a cent. But, as far as I'm concerned, if you're willing to play 2, 3, or 4 years for minimal money (CHL guys) or no money (NCAA), and risk a career ending injury, then you've earned your freedom. And if you do so then you're not breaking any rules.
The Devils can have him, this kid's attitude is already exemplified by his refusal to sign with his draft team.
Call it innovative, call it ballsy, call it whatever you will, it's disrespectful and portrays an attitude that I don't want anywhere near my Rangers.
Oh please. Your Rangers has been home to Jaromir Jagr and Sean Avery out of all people. Pretty sure Jagr was no saint about getting out of WSH.
Talent is talent at the end of the day. You would have a real ****** team if you didn't accept guys like this. Who the **** cares if Wheeler wants to be a "dick" and live his life in a city they'd like to play in? I don't. God bless him, be happy young man you only live once.
But there is also something to be said for paying one's dues. Every player in the NHL, save for a few exceptions, played for the team that drafted them. I imagine they feel similarly to how many of these fans feel.
The draft is in place for a reason. If everyone could just pick and choose where they wanted to play, the landscape of this league would be drastically different. What Wheeler did was within the rules, yes, but he exploited an obscure loophole, and we don't even know why yet.
This is not strictly a business move, especially because it looks like Wheeler stands to lose a lot of money, at least in the short term. Simply, there must be something he personally dislikes about the Coyotes, and as a Coyotes fan, I take that personally.
What we do know, however, is that he basically said a few weeks ago that the ball was in Phoenix's court to get the deal done, and it was up to them if he would end up playing there. Well, the Coyotes offered him as much as they legally could (which, it should be mentioned again, is more than anyone else can offer), and he still walked.
You just sound like a bitter fan, that's all. Boo him. Do what you want. But he had to pay his dues? That's a load of BS. Some people get lucky in life and get all the right bounces without ever paying any dues. Should we have a group of blowhards hunt them all down and chastise them for taking an easy path in life?
He's a hockey player, and if you really want to spin arguments any which way you could say its a teams priviledge to be able to draft him.
"Simply, there must be something he personally dislikes about the Coyotes, and as a Coyotes fan, I take that personally." You serious? I can understand the guy who stuck his head on the line and took Wheeler in the draft being upset with him. But you fans? Who pays your rent at the end of the day? Can't understand how you can take something so personally with a guy you don't even know.
Blake Wheeler lied. I don't know what else to say about that. He said it was up to the Coyotes to make that happen, and because the Coyotes did literally everything they could for the guy and he still turned them down, I don't know how you can construe that as anything other than lying.
Phoenix has no one to blame but themselves. They're the idiots that went completely off the board with this dick.
I agree, there were better picks available that went a lot later in that round.
Phoenix was in a position that the Rangers were in. They were rebuilding and couldn't afford to take a gamble on a project player, hoping for a home run, and that's exactly what they did, and they whiffed big time.
I think after seeing the Rangers draft Jessiman, - who most right away knew was a bad move - Phoenix would have made a safer choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic
So did Fabian Brunnstrom and I think he was a joke too.
Excellent post.
He lost his appeal right after it was leaked that he DEMANDED to play with the Sedins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
The point was that he was projected by the scouting services as a 3rd round pick.
By who? I'd like to see concrete evidence of this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom
lol@ Tukonen
or as they call him in Manchester, Bustokonen
I knew that the U18 Finnish top line were bad picks for 1st rounders. Korpikoski, Tukonen, and Nokelainen absolutely tore it up at the 2004 U18 WJC, and their stock went through the roof, but the U18 kinda scared me. When the Rangers traded up, I was hoping they'd go after Smid, Meszaros, or Wolski, and they picked neither of the 3, and went with Korpikoski.
While I think Korpedo has the best chance of making it big time of the three, I'm still to this point not happy with the pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Based on his talent, that remains to be seen. If he was not a good player that could make an impact, there wouldnt be so many teams offering him a max rookie contract. Its not Phoenix's fault he refused to sign with them. They made every effort.
Who says that he's been offered anything? So far, I haven't heard or seen one official offer. Obviously there have been two teams that have courted him, but who says there were offers made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDEVILSmademedoit
playoffs every year
insane goalie
Marty better stop playing 75 games a year if he wants that to keep happening.
It's not like the team in front of him has gotten better over the years.
Quote:
basically right outside NYC (i'd much rather live anywhere in NJ then pitt)
Haha, I don't know, this one's tough.
Jersey smells worse than **** in some areas, but having to be anywhere close to the Amish would freak me out.
I hate to say it, but I think living 30 minutes from Manhattan is better than living 30 minutes from a place where they shun electricity.
I'll pass on Pitt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander
So if a company that you didn't want to work for called out your name at a convention without your consent, it would be spitting in their face to not work for them? You're all treating this as if Wheeler broke some kind of commitment. He didn't. These players are not property, just because a team calls out a name at the draft does not mean the player is obligated to sign and play for that team. Now, there is a CBA in place that allows the team that drafts a player certain advantages (exclusive rights to the player for a certain number of years), but if the player is willing to wait that out then it's completely legal for him to sign wherever he wants.
Backing out of a legal contract is dishonorable and illegal, refusing to sing one is not. I find it laughable that so many posters are blasting Wheeler for this when we would all prefer to choose our employer, rather than have them chose us.
Excellent post.
I don't get why a player should HAVE TO play for the team that drafted him. It's not like he signed a contract binding himself down.
Anyway, he did his time. He waited it out, and he didn't want to play there. You don't want to play for the team that drafted you? Hate them that much?
Well, there's the price you have to pay, you're under entry level status for a few years, and you have to wait it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ________
How do you know the Kings aren't interested in Wheeler?(or offered him a contract)
How do you know that they are?
How do you know who has offered him a contract?
So far, nothing's been announced aside from some teams courting him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoPhan
Blake Wheeler lied. I don't know what else to say about that. He said it was up to the Coyotes to make that happen, and because the Coyotes did literally everything they could for the guy and he still turned them down, I don't know how you can construe that as anything other than lying.
Even if that's the case. He's paid his dues. He's waited out his entry level status in the NCAA, when he could have been making bigger bucks in the AHL or the NHL. Maybe he'll be a bust, and he'll end up regretting not getting his paycheck while he had the chance. Who knows.
The one thing that's for sure is that he paid the price by waiting it out.
Last edited by GKJ: 06-13-2008 at 07:44 AM.
Reason: QDP
