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Old
06-12-2008, 11:33 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jussin View Post
you guys dont get what I mean, guys that have the heart for the CANADIAN GAME OF HOCKEY
Yeah a 10 years contract for Micheal Ryder

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06-12-2008, 11:35 PM
  #52
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Yea well then I raise you the last year winners, the Anaheim Ducks. Let's face it the Red Wings did not get that roughed up in the series. I think the most trouble they had was against....The Predators. Preds got beat because of lack of talent but they caused a surprise why? Because they took it to the Red Wings, they played old school and it almost worked.
Was the game they played "old school" the pivotal game 5 where they let the wings take 50 + shots; hit multiple posts... and took less than 15 at the other end.

A few posts and the goaltending performance of the playoffs by Dan Ellis and yeah the score was very close.... but they didnt "ALMOST WIN" that game.... or that series... far from it.... The wings were always in control and the series was never in doubt.

The Pens gave the wings more trouble than Nashville.... Once the weak link (aka Hasek) was removed, the wings wouldn't lose another game to Nashville... and wouldn't lose again till game 4 of the WCF

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06-12-2008, 11:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Was the game they played "old school" the pivotal game 5 where they let the wings take 50 + shots; hit multiple posts... and took less than 15 at the other end.

A few posts and the goaltending performance of the playoffs by Dan Ellis and yeah the score was very close.... but they didnt "ALMOST WIN" that game.... or that series... far from it.... The wings were always in control and the series was never in doubt.

The Pens gave the wings more trouble than Nashville.... Once the weak link (aka Hasek) was removed, the wings wouldn't lose another game to Nashville... and wouldn't lose again till game 4 of the WCF
Give Nashville credit, they won those two games. Just because they didn't get 50 shots doesn't mean they didn't deserve it. The final score is what counts.

Just like the Habs. People will go on and on about how they outplayed Philly. I don't think so, Philly won in 5, how were they outplayed? They jumped on opportunities and took it to the Habs and made it count. To me that's hockey and the Flyers outplayed the Habs.

And that's this year's example of a less talented but "Canadian" team taking it to a talented "European" team and winning based on style of play.

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Old
06-12-2008, 11:48 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Give Nashville credit, they won those two games. Just because they didn't get 50 shots doesn't mean they didn't deserve it. The final score is what counts.

Just like the Habs. People will go on and on about how they outplayed Philly. I don't think so, Philly won in 5, how were they outplayed? They jumped on opportunities and took it to the Habs and made it count. To me that's hockey and the Flyers outplayed the Habs.
It is outplaying when you win in the end... thats what detroit did in that game 5... once they got the lead on Nashville and their goalie wasn't a sieve letting in bad goals (Hasek in games 3-4)... they totally shut down nashville. Once Detroit got a lead in games 5-6 Nashville got very, very few offensive chances.... They outworked... Outplayed... and took the game to nashville... Once they had a lead games 5 and 6 were never in doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
And that's this year's example of a less talented but "Canadian" team taking it to a talented "European" team and winning based on style of play.
Montreal never closed out Philly in their game 5.... they were inexperienced.... Detroit never would have blown a second period lead like that.
Montreal was a not so much a talented "european" team... as they were a talented but inexperienced team.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk were called busts after their first two playoff appearances...
Lets give the Kostitsyn bros, Lapierre, Higgins, Plekanec, Gorges, Komisarek, Price, Halak, Latendresse, etc time to grow before we label them playoff busts.

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06-13-2008, 12:08 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
It is outplaying when you win in the end... thats what detroit did in that game 5... once they got the lead on Nashville and their goalie wasn't a sieve letting in bad goals (Hasek in games 3-4)... they totally shut down nashville. Once Detroit got a lead in games 5-6 Nashville got very, very few offensive chances.... They outworked... Outplayed... and took the game to nashville... Once they had a lead games 5 and 6 were never in doubt.



Montreal never closed out Philly in their game 5.... they were inexperienced.... Detroit never would have blown a second period lead like that.
Montreal was a not so much a talented "european" team... as they were a talented but inexperienced team.

Zetterberg and Datsyuk were called busts after their first two playoff appearances...
Lets give the Kostitsyn bros, Lapierre, Higgins, Plekanec, Gorges, Komisarek, Price, Halak, Latendresse, etc time to grow before we label them playoff busts.
At what point can we get on Markovs case?

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06-13-2008, 12:46 AM
  #56
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At what point can we get on Markovs case?
I'm sure you are referring to the trade Markov thread here....
I never said you couldn't get on Markov's case....

Was he poor in the playoffs? yes; he was a very poor player in this year's playoffs.... No where near where he was all regular season.... No where near the number 1 dman we needed him to be. Does that mean we trade him and replace him with Brooks Orpik or Wade Redden?? No, thats just plain crazy... One isn't the same type of player and we'd severly lack a number 1 offensive d... the other has been a bigger playoff bust over his career... has regressed in recent years and is not near the player Markov was in the regular season the last two years.... I'm willing to give Markov a couple more chances... realistically this was his first playoff as our go-to guy on defence.

That said attack his poor playoff play all you want... He was bad, and he needs to be better if this team is to go anywhere in the playoffs.... He needs to be a 28+ minute guy for us in the playoffs, defensively responsible and executing the Powerplay.... I'm not ready to give up on him cause I see his game being that.... He was also good in shutting down Thornton in 04 and wasn't that bad against Carolina in 06. I also don't see how you can easily replace the guy.... Not at the money he's signed for; and not without giving up a lot in a trade....

Your point was that he showed a lack of integrity to play for Russia.... I still say this...
Does it show lack of integrity to play for your country?? No....

You should get on his case for the right reasons; if he's the guy your gonna criticize.


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Old
06-13-2008, 01:14 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I'm sure you are referring to the trade Markov thread here....
I never said you couldn't get on Markov's case....

Was he poor in the playoffs? yes; he was a very poor player in this year's playoffs.... No where near where he was all regular season.... No where near the number 1 dman we needed him to be. Does that mean we trade him and replace him with Brooks Orpik or Wade Redden?? No, thats just plain crazy... One isn't the same type of player and we'd severly lack a number 1 offensive d... the other has been a bigger playoff bust over his career... has regressed in recent years and is not near the player Markov was in the regular season the last two years.... I'm willing to give Markov a couple more chances... realistically this was his first playoff as our go-to guy on defence.

That said attack his poor playoff play all you want... He was bad, and he needs to be better if this team is to go anywhere in the playoffs.... He needs to be a 28+ minute guy for us in the playoffs, defensively responsible and executing the Powerplay.... I'm not ready to give up on him cause I see his game being that.... He was also good in shutting down Thornton in 04 and wasn't that bad against Carolina in 06. I also don't see how you can easily replace the guy.... Not at the money he's signed for; and not without giving up a lot in a trade....

Your point was that he showed a lack of integrity to play for Russia.... I still say this...
Does it show lack of integrity to play for your country?? No....

You should get on his case for the right reasons; if he's the guy your gonna criticize.
I never advocated trading him.

I do find that he flies under the radar and has not received the amount of criticism he deserves for historically (41 games, 14 points) being a poor playoff performer. Sure, points arent all that matter. But his intensity also leaves much to be desired in the post-season and this year in particular he was very poor defensively.

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Old
06-13-2008, 02:04 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I agree.

We need to get rid of Kovalev, Koivu, Plekanek, Higgins, Komisarek, Halak, A Kost, S Kost, Hamrlik, Streit (a lot ill be happy here), Markov.

We should offer all these guys for Crosby.

Who wants those Malkin, Ovechkin and Malkin? Who wants Zetterberg, Datsuk, Hossa, Sundin, Selane, Filatov and Linstrom?

BTW, one thing I love about hockey, this is an international sports and Canadians are still in the top of it. But unless Habs gets the first two players in Quebec... I think that everybody is fair game.

Also what kind of name is this guy "Stamkos"? His he a true Canadian?
Also, Price... is he Canadian or Indian? He is not really white?


Carey Price is my relative man, dont be callin us INDIANS EITHER....this thread was talkin bout I think we need more gritty players and Canadian players cuz we have the HEART for the CANADIAN style of game, look at the Hab cup winners in the past....lets have somethin out of that

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Old
06-13-2008, 02:08 AM
  #59
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Did someone say playoff warriors like Trevor Linden?

Linden retired without a single Stanley Cup to his name.

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Old
06-13-2008, 02:14 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Did someone say playoff warriors like Trevor Linden?

Linden retired without a single Stanley Cup to his name.
He may have not had the Champion team with him, but when it came to clutch time Linden was always there, and he's a class act all the way...great guy. He is a true leader, well grounded guy....good ol canadian boy

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06-13-2008, 07:08 AM
  #61
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He may have not had the Champion team with him, but when it came to clutch time Linden was always there, and he's a class act all the way...great guy. He is a true leader, well grounded guy....good ol canadian boy
You seem to be illustrating the difference between racism and xenophobia, a difference that I probably was unaware of before Don Cherry worked for HNIC and dumbasses started to drink his Cool Aid.

There's a schoiol of thought that Mtl needs to eb a tougher more abrasive team. If you substitued Hartnell and Downie for Higgins and Begin would the series have been different ? The Kost. brothers ?

Mtl lost for a number of reasons, goaltending being a big one. They didn't score enough, and they surrendered goals too easily. They had defensive breakdowns from their top thru bottom pairings. Markov didn't take charge, Komisarek was sub par and Hamrlik ran out of gas it seemed. The why's have to be adressed with these 3 as the clichee 'your best players have to be your best players' is true.

Hockey teams identify needs that meet their style. Montreal's a skill team at the moment. The rumoured targets seem to be skilled guys. If you add a few moderately talented but tough guys, do you improve or just dilute the identity of your team ? Hartnell is a poster boy for the style of player we seem to crave, maybe Ryan Malone ? Can these guys play with forwards in place ? If you want more of a north south style, fine, but you can't parachute these guys alongside east west players and expect a good fit.

I doubt you really want to duscuss this crap though because you've made your generalizations and are stuck behind them.

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Old
06-13-2008, 08:21 AM
  #62
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I dont get that kind of thinking, sure it's fun to get some local boys get drafted, but if i can Draft Filatov or Deschamps, i will go for Filatov. And i dont believe that there is a chosen nation to be the best, the Russian and the Swedes are quite challenging to the title of the best hockey nation.

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Old
06-13-2008, 08:30 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jussin View Post
I dunno about you guys but I would really love to see more CANADIAN players on our team, the kind of guys that have ALOT of HEART into the Canadian Game of Hockey and get a fresh look from just having alot of Russian/European players on our team (nothing against them) its just I'd like to see more guys like Gary Roberts, Trevor Linden, Douggie Gilmour, or any good ol Canadian boys from Kingston or anywhere in Canada







What does nationality have to do with anything??? What the Habs need are players with more heart and desire to win.....but that doesn't necessarily mean more Canadians. I'd be happy with a team full of Russians as long as they play with a little bit of heart. We could sign 10 Canadian born players and be a much worse team so stop making it sound like the only answer is more Canadian players because its not.

This is kind of a dumb thread to be honest. A lot of Russian, Swedish, or Finnish players have more skill than a lot of Canadian players and I don't know about you....but I would like to have more highly skilled players on my team than a bunch of no-talent Canadians.

Go after players that are good and that would help the team no matter what nationality they are.

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Old
06-13-2008, 08:33 AM
  #64
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i think we just got a new "most anoying and disliked user" to replace That old huet fellow. or are you him too?

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Old
06-13-2008, 09:10 AM
  #65
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Please...

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Old
06-13-2008, 10:02 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Jussin View Post
I dunno about you guys but I would really love to see more CANADIAN players on our team, the kind of guys that have ALOT of HEART into the Canadian Game of Hockey and get a fresh look from just having alot of Russian/European players on our team (nothing against them) its just I'd like to see more guys like Gary Roberts, Trevor Linden, Douggie Gilmour, or any good ol Canadian boys from Kingston or anywhere in Canada

It's easier to have leadership from North American players! It's obvious, it's because they are playing in their continent! They knows the language and they knows the value of the cup..

That's doesn't mean that we can't have leadership from european players. It's just easier for Canadian boy!

Talent for talent, Russia matches Canada. But Canada just produce more NHL players..

In our Team I would like to have a corpse of:

in our top 6 forward of Three Canadians (Including 1 from the Q) and 3 europeans

But at the time of the draft, you need to draft the BPA! and you cannot decide which one is gonna be because you have no control...

Timmins chosed last year two americans...

i would appreciate this year if we can draft a big canadian boy... I think we last a big strong forward from Canada!!

But if it's gonna be a finnish defender because he is the BPA or a russian, it's gonna be a russian!

IN the best of the world, the habs would dress more canadian and quebec players. because they are from our country.. but if we have a team 100% from russia and they are bringing us the cup. I'm sure everyone would be VERY VERY HAPPY! In the end, we want a winning cup!!

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Old
06-13-2008, 10:09 AM
  #67
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I know what you are saying, but the HABS went through that phase - drafting in the 90's - Lindsey Vallis - Turner Stevenson - Terry Ryan - Matt Higgens - etc. etc. etc - Brent Bilodeau on D - Brad Brown etc. etc. and got nothing with every one of them ( Stevenson aside to some degree ), all in an effort to get bigger and tougher. We are a fast, skilled, puck moving team - players like Kostopoulis (size) are a dime a dozen - pick one up anytime without having to "draft" one so that oneday, hopefully, they reach their potential.

my 2 cents

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Old
06-13-2008, 10:40 AM
  #68
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This thread is a troll thread. It's made to get you annoyed and reply in vitrol.

Truth is, Doug Gilmour is another barely winner. He won on a Calgary Flames team he barely contributed to and could never lead the Leafs to a Cup. He was only good on the Habs as a grinder.

The best Canadian players are not even physical. Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, etc. Sure, Mario and Steve could tough things out but they were not physical forwards.

Go watch some Finnish hockey. The fins play a hard nose game of hockey. However, even when producing the Saku Koivu's, Olli Jokinen's and Teemu Selanne's, they can never beat the pure skill of the Swedes.

Hockey is no longer Canada's game. It stopped being Canada's game in the 1970's when the Russians proved they were just as good. The last 38 years has proved that it is the game of Canada, US, Russia, Czech, Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, Switzerland, France, Germany, Austria, Japan, and on and on. It's the World's game now, and Canadians need to simply accept that. Lidstrom was simply the first non North American captain. There will be tons more to come. We may soon see teams completely comprised of European players and european coaches playing on North American soil. You know what? I'm fine with that.

/thread

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06-13-2008, 10:58 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
This thread is a troll thread. It's made to get you annoyed and reply in vitrol.

Truth is, Doug Gilmour is another barely winner. He won on a Calgary Flames team he barely contributed to and could never lead the Leafs to a Cup. He was only good on the Habs as a grinder.

The best Canadian players are not even physical. Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, etc. Sure, Mario and Steve could tough things out but they were not physical forwards.

Go watch some Finnish hockey. The fins play a hard nose game of hockey. However, even when producing the Saku Koivu's, Olli Jokinen's and Teemu Selanne's, they can never beat the pure skill of the Swedes.

Hockey is no longer Canada's game. It stopped being Canada's game in the 1970's when the Russians proved they were just as good. The last 38 years has proved that it is the game of Canada, US, Russia, Czech, Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, Switzerland, France, Germany, Austria, Japan, and on and on. It's the World's game now, and Canadians need to simply accept that. Lidstrom was simply the first non North American captain. There will be tons more to come. We may soon see teams completely comprised of European players and european coaches playing on North American soil. You know what? I'm fine with that.

/thread
too bad you didnt see this guy play


we can all agree (especially come WJC TIME) that it IS Canada's game, and this thread is made to suggest we should have more Good ol Canadian boys that have the HEART for the CANADIAN style of game, cuz who is better to play a Canadian style of game? tell me freinds


Cuz COME ON guys, wouldnt it be nice to have a Joe Colborne or Casey Pierro-Zabotel on the team? or a Colby Armstrong? or a couple of new Canadian boys to give this team a fresher look? Go Habs Go

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06-13-2008, 11:02 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You seem to be illustrating the difference between racism and xenophobia, a difference that I probably was unaware of before Don Cherry worked for HNIC and dumbasses started to drink his Cool Aid.

There's a schoiol of thought that Mtl needs to eb a tougher more abrasive team. If you substitued Hartnell and Downie for Higgins and Begin would the series have been different ? The Kost. brothers ?

Mtl lost for a number of reasons, goaltending being a big one. They didn't score enough, and they surrendered goals too easily. They had defensive breakdowns from their top thru bottom pairings. Markov didn't take charge, Komisarek was sub par and Hamrlik ran out of gas it seemed. The why's have to be adressed with these 3 as the clichee 'your best players have to be your best players' is true.

Hockey teams identify needs that meet their style. Montreal's a skill team at the moment. The rumoured targets seem to be skilled guys. If you add a few moderately talented but tough guys, do you improve or just dilute the identity of your team ? Hartnell is a poster boy for the style of player we seem to crave, maybe Ryan Malone ? Can these guys play with forwards in place ? If you want more of a north south style, fine, but you can't parachute these guys alongside east west players and expect a good fit.

I doubt you really want to duscuss this crap though because you've made your generalizations and are stuck behind them.
That's a potent combination and it seems pointless to agrue with the subscribers.


Last edited by Istvan: 06-13-2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: add.
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Old
06-13-2008, 11:16 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jussin View Post
too bad you didnt see this guy play


we can all agree (especially come WJC TIME) that it IS Canada's game, and this thread is made to suggest we should have more Good ol Canadian boys that have the HEART for the CANADIAN style of game, cuz who is better to play a Canadian style of game? tell me freinds


Cuz COME ON guys, wouldnt it be nice to have a Joe Colbourne or Casey Pierro-Zabotel on the team? or a Colby Armstrong? or a couple of new Canadian boys to give this team a fresher look? Go Habs Go
Colby Armstrong?!? What is going on here?

By the way, the four Canadian playoff warriors you keep mentioning (Gilmour, Nieuwendyk, Roberts and Linden) have a combined total of 5 cup rings in 80 seasons played. Nik Lidstrom has 4 cups in 16 seasons. It doesn't matter where you're from, it's the quality of player you are.

Also, the Redwings pillaged the league this year with 11 North Americans who had more than a minimal impact on their roster, compared to 15 Europeans. The Habs had 14 North Americans, compared to 12 Europeans. Using the geographical argument is so pointless and redundant.

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Old
06-13-2008, 11:18 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Jussin View Post
too bad you didnt see this guy play


we can all agree (especially come WJC TIME) that it IS Canada's game, and this thread is made to suggest we should have more Good ol Canadian boys that have the HEART for the CANADIAN style of game, cuz who is better to play a Canadian style of game? tell me freinds


Cuz COME ON guys, wouldnt it be nice to have a Joe Colborne or Casey Pierro-Zabotel on the team? or a Colby Armstrong? or a couple of new Canadian boys to give this team a fresher look? Go Habs Go
I always wonder though, if you have the stereotype of who you want, you must equally have one of who you don't want ? Who would they be, blacks ? Norwegians ? Swiss ? Can't have anymore Swiss with their neutrality and their les/vamp/nursing tendencies. Phraes like 'good ol Cnadian boys' is usually a cover for an opinion that isn't expressed because of fear of how it will sound.

The team needs to improve, teams should never stop trying to improve, and missing elements need to be adressed. From whatever country.

The fact is, have any good ol Canadian boys beaten down the door begging Gainey to sign them ?

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Old
06-13-2008, 11:18 AM
  #73
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...Is this a joke or not, I can't tell.

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Old
06-13-2008, 11:22 AM
  #74
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...Is this a joke or not, I can't tell.
I'm starting to suspect he's Price's so called cousin, 3rd time around , I forget what happened for his last ban, but it went on a page or two, then disappeared. I thought it might be sort of on the level this time, but I'm starting to think not.

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06-13-2008, 11:27 AM
  #75
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...Is this a joke or not, I can't tell.
the guy has HOCKEY COUNTRY as his hometown. If it's not a joke, he's a joke.

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