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Old
06-15-2008, 04:05 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
You don't need an expensive goalie and Osgood is the case in point, a $1.4 mil cap figure. I NEVER said you don't need a goalie that is playing at a high level. Of course, these guys eventually will carry a high price tag though in Osgood's case that will be awhile, he's signed through 2010/11 at that $1.4 mil cap figure. When these guys eventually do go for the big money, that is when you cut them loose and look for the next bargain basement goalie. At least one turns up every season in the NHL.
But, but, ugh, you like Keenan!

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06-15-2008, 04:05 PM
  #52
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Well, as to the Zednik statement, Martin said he was planning on making the playoffs last season, not sure that you can rebuild and be in the playoffs at the same time. If you do plan on making the playoffs, atleast sign legit forwards for your top six. Hoping Zednik would return to his MTL days as a 30 goal consistent scorer was blind. Zed is a 3rd liner at best but even then does not hold defensive abilities. He really does not fit on the team.

Vokoun is a good goaltender yes, but there are others who do not cost as much and can put up a performance around his area. The trade itself was good, but there is logic in having a quality goaltender who does not have a monster salary to go a long with it.

If we paid Dvorak to just come in and skate fast for the team, then thats frightening.
Agreed!!

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06-15-2008, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Our "defensive hockey" has proven it doesn't work for this team. Sorry you don't want to take an honest look at this team. But you're the guy who doesn't include OT losses as losses when counting a team's winning percentage, ROFL.
We were rebuilding, what did you expect? Sudden Success? No, but now we have the team to make it to the playoffs. It didn't work for us before because our talent up front and on the blue line were both under par. Now with players like Bouwmeester, Horton, Weiss, Booth, Matthias, Frolik, Repik, etc. we have good NHLers along with good prospects and organizational depth. And after 3 periods the overtime and shootout are usually based on luck and momentum at the time (because the overtime period is short and shoot out is based on how well the goalie plays and if the player completes his move). But they are losses, I never said they weren't but you get a better and easier-to-get version of how well you're team is doing.

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06-15-2008, 05:59 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
ROFL at not being able to see my private messages!
ROFL at being sure they don't know what they're talking about!
Who's said I wanted to see your private messages? And who said I was sure? I said that it happens all the time that people don't know a lot about this team...do you read my posts?

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06-15-2008, 06:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Who's said I wanted to see your private messages? And who said I was sure? I said that it happens all the time that people don't know a lot about this team...do you read my posts?
read posts 46 then 47

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06-15-2008, 06:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Nate The Great View Post
Well, as to the Zednik statement, Martin said he was planning on making the playoffs last season, not sure that you can rebuild and be in the playoffs at the same time. If you do plan on making the playoffs, atleast sign legit forwards for your top six. Hoping Zednik would return to his MTL days as a 30 goal consistent scorer was blind. Zed is a 3rd liner at best but even then does not hold defensive abilities. He really does not fit on the team.

Vokoun is a good goaltender yes, but there are others who do not cost as much and can put up a performance around his area. The trade itself was good, but there is logic in having a quality goaltender who does not have a monster salary to go a long with it.

If we paid Dvorak to just come in and skate fast for the team, then thats frightening.

No, I said that Martin used the guys who came in as filler as he was getting the team ready. He's not fully re-building, but he is in re-build mode, which is why he's so keen on developing the youth of the team. the guys brought in, which is why they were signed to 2 year deals, were hoped to have bigger impacts while the yout develops.

Who was available at the time that would have played like Vokoun, and was a sure thing? Based on the season prior, the biggest hole was in net, which is why Vokoun was brought in. I don't think anyone realistically thought this team had a shot at the Cup, but if the kids can get a taste of the playoffs, it makes them hungrier for more, which is where I think Martin's playoff statements come from and why Vokoun was brought in.

Osgood didn't play most of the season and only came in because Hasek didn't play well. 2 seasons doesn't prove anything and it's dumb to hope that Andy's got enough in him to run us to the Cup.

No, we payed Dvorak to play on the PK as well. I'm sure there was more expected of him, but he's never been an elite player.

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06-15-2008, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
read posts 46 then 47
OK, and where did I say anything about wanting to read your messages? I said I've never seen anyone come in here and say much about the team, or on the other boards in regards to your position. And no, I can't see you messages, for all I know or care your full of it. And I really don't give a rip what anyone who's not a fan thinks about this team, most don't want it here anyway.

So far as me being sure, where did I say that...? Oh, sorry, I said most, but I didn't say all. Didn't think would be hard to miss.


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06-15-2008, 06:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther
You don't need an expensive goalie and Osgood is the case in point, a $1.4 mil cap figure. I NEVER said you don't need a goalie that is playing at a high level. Of course, these guys eventually will carry a high price tag though in Osgood's case that will be awhile, he's signed through 2010/11 at that $1.4 mil cap figure. When these guys eventually do go for the big money, that is when you cut them loose and look for the next bargain basement goalie. At least one turns up every season in the NHL
that's such incredibly flawed logic, I'm not sure where to start. You cut him loose? Yeah, that always goes over with the fanbases, great idea. Makes you look cheap and dumb, how was being cheap worked out for Buffalo?

Look for bargain basement guys cause one turns up every season? Yeah, on different teams, never on the same one. That's because you never know how they'll do going into a season. Then what do you give up for him? At what price? Where's the guarentee he'll do it again? Raycroft anyone? Carey? For crying out loud....AULD??? How'd that bargain basement guy work out for the Panthers?

Great plan.

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06-15-2008, 06:23 PM
  #59
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my hopes are bouw resigning before the draft so we can have an idea of what we'll want exactly in a jokinen trade.

i do believe jokinen is gone at draft day. for a foward/prospect and pick depending on the team and where they draft will depend on the prospect. if we were to trade with someone in the top ten i say we get a top 6 foward and there first anything of the lesser a prospect will be added.

i think it's time for change for both jokinen and the panthers we need a new identity away from jokinen he's become even lazier then before and it's killing this team becuz he's not the real leader we need. i don't know who that is, and i don't think anyone is really ready but look at all the teams giving it to young guys nowadays. weiss would seem like the next in line. maybe the pressure he steps up his play as well he needs to be an extra 15 point guy weiss topping 70 points to me would be a huge accomplishment for him.

i also think martin will buy out stumpel and pelt. pelt and dvo pretty much would own the same role on the team with dvo being faster and a lil younger he's more beneficial to this team.

obviously the hope is matthias or frolik can step in this year i don't believe either should be playing top line minutes third line would be good with me.

the way the money is spread out on this team i don't think we'll have a A line and a B line we'll just have to settle for two top B lines

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06-15-2008, 06:49 PM
  #60
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Not sure what will happen with Jokinen. I've read somewhere Martin saying he would want a first rounder coming back. That could be Pokerface talking but I'd rather have players coming back instead of a first rounder, even though we currently don't own one.

I'm kinda surprised how many posters have turned on Olli. Granted, you can say he had a bad year but even still, his numbers are pretty good. I hope people don't expect Ovechkin-type numbers from him because Olli isn't that kind of player. I get all the floating around and I can't really defend him on that. I can only hope that Pete can take his game to the next level.

I would at least like Olli to start the season in a Panther sweater. I'd rather not rely on the youngster like Matthias & Frolik and would rather see them start in the A.

-ghoste

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06-15-2008, 07:00 PM
  #61
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Not sure what will happen with Jokinen. I've read somewhere Martin saying he would want a first rounder coming back. That could be Pokerface talking but I'd rather have players coming back instead of a first rounder, even though we currently don't own one.

I'm kinda surprised how many posters have turned on Olli. Granted, you can say he had a bad year but even still, his numbers are pretty good. I hope people don't expect Ovechkin-type numbers from him because Olli isn't that kind of player. I get all the floating around and I can't really defend him on that. I can only hope that Pete can take his game to the next level.

I would at least like Olli to start the season in a Panther sweater. I'd rather not rely on the youngster like Matthias & Frolik and would rather see them start in the A.

-ghoste
martin's idea of what he'd want coming back would be a solid player and at least a first round pick... i don't think he trades jokinen for just a first rounder and prospects or w/e unless he had some kind of idea of how he was gonna get another top 6 foward or 2 in free agency or via trade.

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06-15-2008, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
Not sure what will happen with Jokinen. I've read somewhere Martin saying he would want a first rounder coming back. That could be Pokerface talking but I'd rather have players coming back instead of a first rounder, even though we currently don't own one.

I'm kinda surprised how many posters have turned on Olli. Granted, you can say he had a bad year but even still, his numbers are pretty good. I hope people don't expect Ovechkin-type numbers from him because Olli isn't that kind of player. I get all the floating around and I can't really defend him on that. I can only hope that Pete can take his game to the next level.

I would at least like Olli to start the season in a Panther sweater. I'd rather not rely on the youngster like Matthias & Frolik and would rather see them start in the A.

-ghoste
I agree on Olli, especially if Matthias and Frolik come in as I think he'll be able to get the most out of them playing on the wing. Like when Matthias was up earlier this season.

I'd rather see Olli back either way, though, a change of scenary could be needed for both parties. When it comes to Olli, as you said, he was still a PPG guy on an "off" season. I just think he needs a bit of an attitude adjustment and possibly not wear the 'C'. Not an indictment on him so much as there may be a better leader out there for us.

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06-15-2008, 07:10 PM
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I agree on Olli, especially if Matthias and Frolik come in as I think he'll be able to get the most out of them playing on the wing. Like when Matthias was up earlier this season.

I'd rather see Olli back either way, though, a change of scenary could be needed for both parties. When it comes to Olli, as you said, he was still a PPG guy on an "off" season. I just think he needs a bit of an attitude adjustment and possibly not wear the 'C'. Not an indictment on him so much as there may be a better leader out there for us.
i still think we can get a good enough impact player back that can help this team. that would be a better overal player and a change would be good all around for olli, this team and the players.

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06-15-2008, 07:23 PM
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If we trade jokinen and end up leaning on matthias and/or Frolik next season and their growth is stunted because of it, i know that the same people calling for Jokinen to be traded will be calling out JM for calling up Matthias too early.

I've been surprised at the turn on Olli as well. But again, if the right trade comes around, i'm not gonna hold on to him with cold dead hands. Of course the right trade includes players AND picks.

But, i'm still thinking Jokinen will be here after draft day, and that JM won't do much in FA. Probably a Dman, but not much in terms of forwards.

Just my little prediction that will probably get blown to shreds..

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06-15-2008, 07:32 PM
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i jsut think bringing in someone who can actually help olli doesn't exist. becuz the only player out there is hossa who is really a top player i'd say that would help this team and benefit olli in the right ways.

and trading for someone is out of the question. any trade to bring in someone worthy will cost us prospects and possibly someone liek booth or olesz. and we know that won't happen.

so in general trading olli for a lesser player but still top 6 player maybe another 50-60 point player and a first pick that could eventually be another top 6 would be a good deal for a team that obviously all of us sitting here thinking we'll the only move will be redden.. obviously just getting redden won't get us into the playoffs. but building with more prospects and picks along with another good player. can help this team with more pieces.

of course if bouw doesn't want to sign he could be the bargaining chip for a bunch of offense but redden definetly wouldn't replace him and if say we were to throw the bank at campbell he doesn't replace him either.

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06-15-2008, 08:10 PM
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No, I said that Martin used the guys who came in as filler as he was getting the team ready. He's not fully re-building, but he is in re-build mode, which is why he's so keen on developing the youth of the team. the guys brought in, which is why they were signed to 2 year deals, were hoped to have bigger impacts while the yout develops.

Who was available at the time that would have played like Vokoun, and was a sure thing? Based on the season prior, the biggest hole was in net, which is why Vokoun was brought in. I don't think anyone realistically thought this team had a shot at the Cup, but if the kids can get a taste of the playoffs, it makes them hungrier for more, which is where I think Martin's playoff statements come from and why Vokoun was brought in.

Osgood didn't play most of the season and only came in because Hasek didn't play well. 2 seasons doesn't prove anything and it's dumb to hope that Andy's got enough in him to run us to the Cup.

No, we payed Dvorak to play on the PK as well. I'm sure there was more expected of him, but he's never been an elite player.
While I will agree that most of them were plugs, but they werent really good ones. And for Martin to expect those under par plugs to reach the playoffs was kind of well, "out there". I dont think any of us expected much more than what we got from our UFA signings, and Dvorak wasnt anything special on the PK either.

Vokoun IMO is not built well enough to make thru the season and into the playoffs, last season was his first season were he actually played quite a bit of games, but at the end he was dog tired. Thats were Vokoun might be a relatively big question mark. Yes he has had playoff experience, but he may play like he did at the end of the season when he gets there (hopefully not) but if hes absolutely beat, and we are just ownly entering the playoffs, we are screwed. That was even a worry for Nashville fans.

For playoffs look at Dan Ellis, not payed much, and played pretty dang solid in them. If we had a better drafting we could get a few guys like him in the later rounds and not have to worry about paying 6 + mil for a goaltender.

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06-15-2008, 08:13 PM
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But do you guys think Olli would fetch a first rounder plus an impact player in return? I'm not sure his value is that high.

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06-15-2008, 08:21 PM
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But do you guys think Olli would fetch a first rounder plus an impact player in return? I'm not sure his value is that high.

-ghoste
well what teams have been rumored? what would be plausable deals?

minnesota- brouchard and their 1st (17th) maybe a prospect?
philly- carter/lupel their first not sure what number and maybe a prospect
calgary- tanguay and their first

who else is out there? i don't think the first two deals would be that bad.. of course they aren't olli offensively but they might be better for the team. i jsut don't see us getting that player for olli unless we trade bouwmeester which i don't want to happen.

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06-15-2008, 08:24 PM
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While I will agree that most of them were plugs, but they werent really good ones. And for Martin to expect those under par plugs to reach the playoffs was kind of well, "out there". I dont think any of us expected much more than what we got from our UFA signings, and Dvorak wasnt anything special on the PK either.

Vokoun IMO is not built well enough to make thru the season and into the playoffs, last season was his first season were he actually played quite a bit of games, but at the end he was dog tired. Thats were Vokoun might be a relatively big question mark. Yes he has had playoff experience, but he may play like he did at the end of the season when he gets there (hopefully not) but if hes absolutely beat, and we are just ownly entering the playoffs, we are screwed. That was even a worry for Nashville fans.

For playoffs look at Dan Ellis, not payed much, and played pretty dang solid in them. If we had a better drafting we could get a few guys like him in the later rounds and not have to worry about paying 6 + mil for a goaltender.
Could have been that Martin said he expected to make the playoffs but was just saying that so the fans weren't going to go crazy. He doesn't tip his hand. I don't know that they were filler for a playoff run or if they were there to quell the fans concerns, but their terms should be telling. While I'm sure Martin expected more, I don't think he tought the defense was going to be as bad as it was.

With regards to T-Vo, he was played a bit too much. Andy proved this season that he can handle more games, so I think going forward he'll get more and allow Vokoun to rest up some.

For every Ellis and Ward, there's a Cloutier or another sieve goalie. Noone knows what Ellis will do next season and Nashville certainly thought they'd get more out of Mason who was solid the year prior. You can't bank one season being proof to a goalie's future, especially if it's not a full load. Again, see Auld, Jim Carey, and "Redlight" Raycroft.

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06-15-2008, 08:28 PM
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Vokoun IMO is not built well enough to make thru the season and into the playoffs, last season was his first season were he actually played quite a bit of games, but at the end he was dog tired. Thats were Vokoun might be a relatively big question mark. Yes he has had playoff experience, but he may play like he did at the end of the season when he gets there (hopefully not) but if hes absolutely beat, and we are just ownly entering the playoffs, we are screwed. That was even a worry for Nashville fans.
You must have forgotten the 2002-03 season when he played 69 games, the 2003-04 season when he played 73 regular season games and 6 playoff games and the 2005-06 season when he played 61 games.

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06-15-2008, 08:32 PM
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You must have forgotten the 2002-03 season when he played 69 games, the 2003-04 season when he played 73 regular season games and 6 playoff games and the 2005-06 season when he played 61 games.
Aye but at the end of last season looked very tired and his play showed it - its cause for concern in some ways.

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06-15-2008, 08:37 PM
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Could have been that Martin said he expected to make the playoffs but was just saying that so the fans weren't going to go crazy. He doesn't tip his hand. I don't know that they were filler for a playoff run or if they were there to quell the fans concerns, but their terms should be telling. While I'm sure Martin expected more, I don't think he tought the defense was going to be as bad as it was.

With regards to T-Vo, he was played a bit too much. Andy proved this season that he can handle more games, so I think going forward he'll get more and allow Vokoun to rest up some.

For every Ellis and Ward, there's a Cloutier or another sieve goalie. Noone knows what Ellis will do next season and Nashville certainly thought they'd get more out of Mason who was solid the year prior. You can't bank one season being proof to a goalie's future, especially if it's not a full load. Again, see Auld, Jim Carey, and "Redlight" Raycroft.
Agree with your first paragraph

Hopefully Andy can step it up and play more games at the level he did this season, and resting Vokoun wont be a problem if he plays that way.

Mason yeah, was weird did not understand how that happened. Auld played pretty well in Boston and he played well in Vancouver when he was there. Didn't raycroft go down the tubes after an injury?

Anyway, I think you rely on your scouting staff to do the best job they can when drafting goalies and sorting out ones with consistency problems. But like I said, drafting a few and letting them develop can get you goalies like Ellis and say he has a good season this up coming one, and you've got yourself a 1b goaltender perhaps with a low low salary for atleast a couple more seasons. Of course you will get your flubs but it's all apart of the game. Because if you draft one each season or so in the latter rounds, you have more coming up if one is a dud. The plan isn't bulletproof by any means but one that can easily work as well.

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06-15-2008, 09:27 PM
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Aye but at the end of last season looked very tired and his play showed it - its cause for concern in some ways.
He faced the most shots in the NHL. That'll wear you out after 60some games.

I expect better defense this season, less shots on net. Skrastins will be a huge part of that, but also an increased puck possession will help that along as well.

Thats the plan, at least...

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06-15-2008, 09:34 PM
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He faced the most shots in the NHL. That'll wear you out after 60some games.

I expect better defense this season, less shots on net. Skrastins will be a huge part of that, but also an increased puck possession will help that along as well.

Thats the plan, at least...
agreed he also fell apart then when the rest of the team fell apart. he had it going again after anderson played a couple amazing beyond amazing games to knock some sense into this team. and voukon came abck and played solid.

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06-16-2008, 07:47 AM
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Hey guys. A few things. First...I think we all saw last season that we have two goalies capable of handling multiple games for us. I think next season we are going to see Andy get a lot more starts than this season, and if we can make a playoff run, that would benefit Vokoun down the stretch. As much as I think that you need a hot goalie in net during the playoffs, rather than a big named one, Im happy with Vokoun here.

Second...Olli needs to stay now with the hiring of our new coach. He sounds like exactly what Olli needs to be put back on track. Ive said it for so long and will so again...Olli is a 100 point player in this league if he just has some true linemates to work with. I just cant see this team improving if we deal Olli, no matter who or how high of a pick is brought back. Its a step backwards for the next season or two IMO.

With the addition of DeBoer as our new head coach, we should see a big improvement in the scheme from our top line to our backup goaltender. It sounds like we are going to be a bit more up tempo, utilizing our speed on the wing. If thats the case, then Bouw needs to be resigned ASAP and another Dman needs to be brought in. Unfortunately, i dont see forwards added unless others are traded/bought out. I think we are capable of putting up enough goals if we improve our offense, and if our man games lost is more along the league average. I just hope that Olli does indeed stay and Bouw is signed longterm on the eve of the draft, so all these ideas can be put to rest.

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