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06-16-2008, 05:05 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Holy Jokinen View Post
oh yeah, i forgot that Matthias isn't an option.
Matthias will be lucky to score 40 pts, half of Jokinen's production.

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06-16-2008, 05:07 PM
  #102
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For people thinking Matthias will come up and be the Panthers' savior, they have a rude of wakening coming, if Olli is traded for defense which isnt all bad.. and he brings up our prospects like Frolik/Matthias I just dont see it being the answer to the problem.. We just can't pin the offensive production lost from Olli on Matthias/Frolik. Yes trading Olli means other players stepping up, but I think it would be wise to bring in better free agents if we trade Olli. I mean if Martin does get his man via trade jokinen, then why not sign free agent forwards, I mean what the heck is the big deal? Let Matthias/Frolik/Repik stay down and develop.
i never implied that we'd depend on matthias, nor has anyone else. i still believe it's possible he can play a role next year if he works hard this summer but JM has given no indication he's going to depend on matthias and his actions in the past tell us that he will be very patient. this is a red herring.

i think we can say with near certainty that if olli is traded for defense, replacement scoring will be acquired.

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06-16-2008, 05:11 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Nate The Great View Post
For people thinking Matthias will come up and be the Panthers' savior, they have a rude of wakening coming, if Olli is traded for defense which isnt all bad.. and he brings up our prospects like Frolik/Matthias I just dont see it being the answer to the problem.. We just can't pin the offensive production lost from Olli on Matthias/Frolik. Yes trading Olli means other players stepping up, but I think it would be wise to bring in better free agents if we trade Olli. I mean if Martin does get his man via trade jokinen, then why not sign free agent forwards, I mean what the heck is the big deal? Let Matthias/Frolik/Repik stay down and develop.
I'm not sure people are thinking Matthias is going to be the Savior at all, and I'm not real sure why this keeps coming up in this fashion. I do, however, think he can contribute and will be made more effective with a defenseman who can help with the outlet pass.

I'm also not thinking that Martin is JUST going to tweek the defense, I think he'll do some tweeking on offense as well. Even if it they just get rid of Stumpel, and his horrible passing game, that's an improvement. Martin doesn't tip his hand, so I'm just going to sit back and watch.

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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
We need a top line winger more than a d-man. We need more scoring as it will take pressure of our d-men and allow them to play better. The numbers say we are 20th in the NHL in gpg and 14th in the NHL in goals against. Our biggest problem was not generating enough powerplays. We get more powerplays we score more goals and we give our D a rest and it is likely the team on the penalty kill wont be scoring and killing penalties usually keeps the other team's best players off the ice. We had 5 teams in the eastern conference out score us who made the playoffs! I think this says it is easier to make the playoffs if you score more goals. Your spin is making me dizzy!@!!

Bringing in Liles will not improve this defense to the point of making a significant difference because good defense is a TEAM EFFORT. We could have two Lidstroms and two Maddens but if Jokinen doesn't bust his ass to get back to play D it doesn't matter who we have. Whereas our offensive ability is limited by the talent we have. It is easier to improve our team by bringing in a top 6 forward than bringing in a d-man.http://hfboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=14423073
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1 Lidstrom wouldn't help this team? Hmmm, don't think so. While I agree this team needs to have it's forwards play more on defense, that rule doesn't always apply, see Bure.

3 teams in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference scored less goals. While it obviously tips in the favor of scoring, I think the key is balance, which is what Martin is trying to create.

You can carry on til your fingers hurt, it's not going to change Martin's mind in what he's going to do, and I also don't think a pmd will be as ineffective as you think.

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06-16-2008, 05:12 PM
  #104
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For all you know JM was looking for a good enforcer all year last year before finding Belak. He just wasn't tipping his hand. And you totally called the DeBoer hiring. Read him like a book.

Regardless of whether you think his actions are predictable, JM has shown that he's able to keep things up his sleeve. Why all this hate?

Edit: bah, didn't realize how long that page was up. I'd quote the post I replied to but it's not that hard to figure out.

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06-16-2008, 05:12 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
i never implied that we'd depend on matthias, nor has anyone else. i still believe it's possible he can play a role next year if he works hard this summer but JM has given no indication he's going to depend on matthias and his actions in the past tell us that he will be very patient. this is a red herring.

i think we can say with near certainty that if olli is traded for defense, replacement scoring will be acquired.
Although Matthias is good, many here think he will do a lot for this club his first season, which is well, blind to be honest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see him do well, but come on. I still don't see what the problem with signing some DECENT free agents is. Maybe this team doesn't ABSOLUTELY need to sign them, but it would help tremendously. You and I both know that for a fact.

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06-16-2008, 05:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
This "tip his hand" crap is ********. It would be stupid for JM to go out and say, "we are trading Jokinen for x,y, and z." No GM says who they will be trading or who they will be signing. JM wanted to sign Todd White but he was too expensive. Things in general can be predicted (sign a d-man or get a goalie) but cannot be said with certainty. As for Vokoun, I predicted it 100%. Check my past posts if you want.
Oh, then you MUST be oneofthehockeygods then. I was guessing him too once it came out that he was talking with Nashville, but it was mostly hope. Guess you really can see down from the heavens.

Thanks for the lesson on how a GM plays his game, of course, weren't you also one of the people upset with the timing he said it would take? Or was it just that you KNEW he'd bring in a clone? No, you didn't know. Sorry you don't like it, but it's the truth.

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06-16-2008, 05:18 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I'm not sure people are thinking Matthias is going to be the Savior at all, and I'm not real sure why this keeps coming up in this fashion. I do, however, think he can contribute and will be made more effective with a defenseman who can help with the outlet pass.

I'm also not thinking that Martin is JUST going to tweek the defense, I think he'll do some tweeking on offense as well. Even if it they just get rid of Stumpel, and his horrible passing game, that's an improvement. Martin doesn't tip his hand, so I'm just going to sit back and watch.



1 Lidstrom wouldn't help this team? Hmmm, don't think so. While I agree this team needs to have it's forwards play more on defense, that rule doesn't always apply, see Bure.

3 teams in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference scored less goals. While it obviously tips in the favor of scoring, I think the key is balance, which is what Martin is trying to create.

You can carry on til your fingers hurt, it's not going to change Martin's mind in what he's going to do, and I also don't think a pmd will be as ineffective as you think.
1. Geez, you need to think about what I write before you dispute what I say. Have you played hockey? Your defense is only as good as your weakest link. Defense is a team effort. LOL @ you thinking I'm serious about have two lidstroms. The point is that you need all your players on the ice to play d and put in the effort. Detroit is so good because all their players put the effort in and play D even the starts, who happen to be great defensively, Zetterberg adn Datysuk. Bure was here to score goals, period. He was the best goal scorer in the NHL. You don't expect him to put in the effort defensively because his job is to score, and score he did. No one is even close on this team to being the player bure was offensively. Also, the biggest problem with Bure was his defense. People complained about that.

We will see some benefit from getting a PMD. I'm not saying we wont but we wont improve the team as much as we could with a better forward.

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06-16-2008, 05:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Matthias will be lucky to score 40 pts, half of Jokinen's production.
That's 40 points more than we had here the previous year, right? More than several guys on this team, no?

Where's your crystal ball again...?

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06-16-2008, 05:20 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Oh, then you MUST be oneofthehockeygods then. I was guessing him too once it came out that he was talking with Nashville, but it was mostly hope. Guess you really can see down from the heavens.

Thanks for the lesson on how a GM plays his game, of course, weren't you also one of the people upset with the timing he said it would take? Or was it just that you KNEW he'd bring in a clone? No, you didn't know. Sorry you don't like it, but it's the truth.
Yeah, I was upset with the TIMING HE SAID it would take. There was no reason to believe otherwise. I'm ecstatic he didn't bring in a clone and have had my criticisms validated by JM!


Last edited by Heimy: 06-17-2008 at 12:29 AM. Reason: uncalled for/flaming
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06-16-2008, 05:21 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
1. Geez, you need to think about what I write before you dispute what I say. Have you played hockey? Your defense is only as good as your weakest link. Defense is a team effort. LOL @ you thinking I'm serious about have two lidstroms. The point is that you need all your players on the ice to play d and put in the effort. Detroit is so good because all their players put the effort in and play D even the starts, who happen to be great defensively, Zetterberg adn Datysuk. Bure was here to score goals, period. He was the best goal scorer in the NHL. You don't expect him to put in the effort defensively because his job is to score, and score he did. No one is even close on this team to being the player bure was offensively. Also, the biggest problem with Bure was his defense. People complained about that.

We will see some benefit from getting a PMD. I'm not saying we wont but we wont improve the team as much as we could with a better forward.
LOL at you thinking I put much thought into anything you say. You wrote it, I don't know you from Adam, so I therefore have to take you at your written word. You tend to really out some whoppers out there, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Lids wouldn't be a huge help to this team.

Noone's close to Bure here? Matthias is! Oh wait, LOL that you thought I was serious right there.

Once again, we're all pretty smart hockey fans god, we don't rewally need a lesson on things like you tend to think that we do.

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06-16-2008, 05:22 PM
  #111
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That's 40 points more than we had here the previous year, right? More than several guys on this team, no?

Where's your crystal ball again...?
This was clearly assuming Jokinen is gone. Sorry you never think and are conditioned to attack everything I say.

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06-16-2008, 05:24 PM
  #112
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LOL at you thinking I put much thought into anything you say. You wrote it, I don't know you from Adam, so I therefore have to take you at your written word. You tend to really out some whoppers out there, I wouldn't be surprised if you thought Lids wouldn't be a huge help to this team.

Noone's close to Bure here? Matthias is! Oh wait, LOL that you thought I was serious right there.

Once again, we're all pretty smart hockey fans god, we don't rewally need a lesson on things like you tend to think that we do.
Yeah, huge whoppers! I'm crazy because I make legitimate criticisms and back it up with reasoning!?!!@#!@% You're a lemming.

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06-16-2008, 05:24 PM
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Yeah, I was upset with the TIMING HE SAID it would take. There was no reason to believe otherwise. I'm ecstatic he didn't bring in a clone and have had my criticisms validated by JM!
That's my point, he didn't tip his hand, at all. That's why I didn't get upset. Had it taken that long, I wouldn't have been happy, but just as you said about him coming out with "I'll trade Olli for x,y, and z," I didn't expect him to be very forthright with his coaching candidates. Why tip his hand to the rest of the league? Perhaps now you understand my "crap" when it comes to that?


Last edited by Heimy: 06-17-2008 at 12:31 AM. Reason: deleted part of quote
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06-16-2008, 05:26 PM
  #114
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That's my point, he didn't tip his hand, at all. That's why I didn't get upset. Had it taken that long, I wouldn't have been happy, but just as you said about him coming out with "I'll trade Olli for x,y, and z," I didn't expect him to be very forthright with his coaching candidates. Why tip his hand to the rest of the league? Perhaps now you understand my "crap" when it comes to that?
You don't know exactly how this worked out. JM might have planned to interview more candidates but didn't want to risk Pete signing somewhere else. You assume everything and don't know anything.

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06-16-2008, 05:26 PM
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This was clearly assuming Jokinen is gone. Sorry you never think and are conditioned to attack everything I say.
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Yeah, huge whoppers! I'm crazy because I make legitimate criticisms and back it up with reasoning!?!!@#!@% You're a lemming.
A what? I've been called a lot of things in my time, but a lemming. Ah well. Listen, I don't mind in the least that you and I disagree and I don't mind in the least that we debate, that's dine with me. However, when youstart throwing all the insults and the pwn3d childishness, that's where my tone shifts.


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06-16-2008, 05:27 PM
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A what? I've been called a lot of things in my time, but a lemming. Ah well. Listen, I don't mind in the least that you and I disagree and I don't mind in the least that we debate, that's dine with me. However, when youstart throwing all the insults and the pwn3d childishness, that's where my tone shifts.
Do you even know what that means?


Last edited by Heimy: 06-17-2008 at 12:34 AM. Reason: deleted part of quote
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06-16-2008, 05:28 PM
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You don't know exactly how this worked out. JM might have planned to interview more candidates but didn't want to risk Pete signing somewhere else. You assume everything and don't know anything.
I don't assume anything? And I don't know anything? Back that up, please. For all we know, Martin had a few key guys he wanted to interview, which as usual came out once the deal was done, and he wanted to interview them.

He didn't tip his hand, how's that an assumption. It was the fact here, how was it not?

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06-16-2008, 05:29 PM
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I don't assume anything? And I don't know anything? Back that up, please. For all we know, Martin had a few key guys he wanted to interview, which as usual came out once the deal was done, and he wanted to interview them.

He didn't tip his hand, how's that an assumption. It was the fact here, how was it not?
You're assuming JM planned to sign him when he did...

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06-16-2008, 05:32 PM
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Do you even know what that means?
A rodent like creature that is known best for it's mass suicides? Still doesn't explain why of all things out there I'm a lemming, but ok. Still doesn't explain why you can't have a debate without resorting to namecalling.


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06-16-2008, 05:40 PM
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You're assuming JM planned to sign him when he did...
If that's what I'm assuming, then you're assuming that he didn't. My point is that Martin doesn't make it clear what his intentions are. Is that not true?

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06-16-2008, 05:53 PM
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Although Matthias is good, many here think he will do a lot for this club his first season, which is well, blind to be honest. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see him do well, but come on. I still don't see what the problem with signing some DECENT free agents is. Maybe this team doesn't ABSOLUTELY need to sign them, but it would help tremendously. You and I both know that for a fact.
we saw what the problem was. decent FAs end up having their price bid up and as a result, you get a lot less value. that's got to be understood at this point. the pickups last year were below that cutoff point so were relatively cheap and reasonably effective.

as to the hockeygod's complaints about getting dizzy due to the spin, i can only sigh. sheez. enough already man. your spin - we were outscored by 5 teams so we must WAY over pay for a FA winger to do what? the goal is simple: make the playoffs. we need more consistent scoring and there will be tweaks on O, you can bet on that. what we don't need (and i can thankfully guarantee you that we won't get) is an overpriced FA winger. your sadly misguided vision will be put to rest soon enough.

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06-16-2008, 06:21 PM
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A rodent like creature that is known best for it's mass suicides?
Interesting, if off-topic fact: Lemmings don't actually commit mass suicides.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

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06-16-2008, 06:26 PM
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Interesting, if off-topic fact: Lemmings don't actually commit mass suicides.

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp
lol, thanks for that. I'd heard that it wasn't an actual fact.

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06-16-2008, 07:21 PM
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we saw what the problem was. decent FAs end up having their price bid up and as a result, you get a lot less value. that's got to be understood at this point. the pickups last year were below that cutoff point so were relatively cheap and reasonably effective.

as to the hockeygod's complaints about getting dizzy due to the spin, i can only sigh. sheez. enough already man. your spin - we were outscored by 5 teams so we must WAY over pay for a FA winger to do what? the goal is simple: make the playoffs. we need more consistent scoring and there will be tweaks on O, you can bet on that. what we don't need (and i can thankfully guarantee you that we won't get) is an overpriced FA winger. your sadly misguided vision will be put to rest soon enough.
Sorry family member of Anthony Stewart but we need a top line winger. I'm not in the minority on this one. Who says we have to "way over pay"??

My vision is not misguided as many share it.

You don't understand that 5 teams outscored us and made the playoffs? We need to score more. We lost A LOT of one goal games. Jokinen has no first line worthy teammate. We have ONE legitimate first liner, ONE!!!!

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06-16-2008, 07:22 PM
  #125
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If that's what I'm assuming, then you're assuming that he didn't. My point is that Martin doesn't make it clear what his intentions are. Is that not true?

No one knows how things play out behind the scenes so to give him so much credit for "not tipping his hand" is ridiculous.

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