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Pens' 2009-10 Salary Cap/Lineup Discussion (UPDATED: June 13)

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Old
07-02-2008, 07:19 PM
  #51
mrzeigler
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
added in orpik's new deal.

so... eight NHL d-men on the roster? who will give shero a sixth-round pick to take sydor's contract?
Don't you mean eight d-man with NHL experience and then Alex Goligoski?

What if Goligoski has a great training camp? In addition to Sydor being marketted, would Gonchar be untouchable? How's bout Whitney?

On the plus side, you can never have too many healthy dmen ... and being nine deep at the position with only $21.5M tied up in those nine guys for 2008-9 is definitely a good thing.

Here's the crazy thing: I keep hearing people say that the Pens should go after Dan Boyle. OK, if Tampa needs relatively cheap bodies (which really is a rhetorical question after the Malone contract), maybe Scuderi+Gill for him? That would save Tampa $3.8M this year ... Scuderi+Sydor would save Tampa about $3.4M. (Of course, those are actual dollars, not the necessarily the 08-09 salary cap hit of those involved.)

Still, it would be nice to be able to give Goligoski another year to develop without his RFA clock starting to tick. The longer they can sit in the minors, the longer these young guys will provide so salary-cap relief once they make the big team.

Isn't it amazing how many possibilities are created by the Oprik signing? What a nice deal all around ...

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07-02-2008, 07:28 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Don't you mean eight d-man with NHL experience and then Alex Goligoski?

What if Goligoski has a great training camp? In addition to Sydor being marketted, would Gonchar be untouchable? How's bout Whitney?

On the plus side, you can never have too many healthy dmen ... and being nine deep at the position with only $21.5M tied up in those nine guys for 2008-9 is definitely a good thing.

Here's the crazy thing: I keep hearing people say that the Pens should go after Dan Boyle. OK, if Tampa needs relatively cheap bodies (which really is a rhetorical question after the Malone contract), maybe Scuderi+Gill for him? That would save Tampa $3.8M this year ... Scuderi+Sydor would save Tampa about $3.4M. (Of course, those are actual dollars, not the necessarily the 08-09 salary cap hit of those involved.)

Still, it would be nice to be able to give Goligoski another year to develop without his RFA clock starting to tick. The longer they can sit in the minors, the longer these young guys will provide so salary-cap relief once they make the big team.

Isn't it amazing how many possibilities are created by the Oprik signing? What a nice deal all around ...
yup, i did mean eight NHL-experienced d-men. and yeah, certainly sydor certainly isn't the only one who could be moved. i think they'd be absolutely stupid to trade gonchar, but anyone else would probably be fair game.

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07-03-2008, 08:21 AM
  #53
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so, some estimates perhaps now that the roster is beginning to fill up...

17 guys under contract right now that will likely be taking up cap space on opening night. seems likely that one of those eight d-men mentioned above would be moved, but for now, we'll go with what's there.

that leaves 6 spots open, one of which belongs to fleury with the other five going to various forwards.

so let's start off with the obvious and add fleury. the rumored numbers are 6 yrs/$5.5mil per.

~$14.7mil remaining - $5.5 = $9.2mil left for five forwards.

personally, i don't think fitting jagr's demands into that makes a hell of a lot of sense. so let's try naslund. rumors are that the pens' offer is 2 yrs/$3.5mil. he's pretty sought after at this point though, so it would probably take more. let's say $4mil.

$9.2-$4.0 = $5.2mil left for four forwards.

getting slim now if they go that route, though. so instead of a vet agitator like cooke or whoever, you give ryan stone his shot at the start of the season.

$5.2-$0.9 = $4.3 left for three forwards.

the last guy on the roster is probably going to be a brent/taffe type, if not one of those guys specifically. figure $500k.

$4.3-$0.5 = $3.8mil left for two forwards.

from there... you hope to get that other guy for crosby's line or the second line LW spot for maybe $2.50-$2.75ish. with the option perhaps to move staal to one of the open wing spots. names that have popped up include fedotenko, jason williams, bertuzzi -- to name just a few in that price range.

what would give some flexibility to all of this would be a trade of one of those d-men, which would be nice. sydor would be the ideal, but you'd need to find someone who actually wants him and is maybe near the salary floor, and you'd need him to waive his NTC. plus, having goligoski as the first call-up from WBS would be a good scenario, because one way or another it'd be nice to see him get some time in the NHL.

if sydor could somehow be dealt for a low pick, you'd be looking at $6.3mil to spend on three forwards -- much more favorable, especially because it's not like they'll spend every dollar available headed into the year.

so that's my bored take on things. curious to see what others think is possible.

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07-03-2008, 08:43 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
so, some estimates perhaps now that the roster is beginning to fill up...

17 guys under contract right now that will likely be taking up cap space on opening night. seems likely that one of those eight d-men mentioned above would be moved, but for now, we'll go with what's there.

that leaves 6 spots open, one of which belongs to fleury with the other five going to various forwards.

so let's start off with the obvious and add fleury. the rumored numbers are 6 yrs/$5.5mil per.

~$14.7mil remaining - $5.5 = $9.2mil left for five forwards.

personally, i don't think fitting jagr's demands into that makes a hell of a lot of sense. so let's try naslund. rumors are that the pens' offer is 2 yrs/$3.5mil. he's pretty sought after at this point though, so it would probably take more. let's say $4mil.

$9.2-$4.0 = $5.2mil left for four forwards.

getting slim now if they go that route, though. so instead of a vet agitator like cooke or whoever, you give ryan stone his shot at the start of the season.

$5.2-$0.9 = $4.3 left for three forwards.

the last guy on the roster is probably going to be a brent/taffe type, if not one of those guys specifically. figure $500k.

$4.3-$0.5 = $3.8mil left for two forwards.

from there... you hope to get that other guy for crosby's line or the second line LW spot for maybe $2.50-$2.75ish. with the option perhaps to move staal to one of the open wing spots. names that have popped up include fedotenko, jason williams, bertuzzi -- to name just a few in that price range.

what would give some flexibility to all of this would be a trade of one of those d-men, which would be nice. sydor would be the ideal, but you'd need to find someone who actually wants him and is maybe near the salary floor, and you'd need him to waive his NTC. plus, having goligoski as the first call-up from WBS would be a good scenario, because one way or another it'd be nice to see him get some time in the NHL.

if sydor could somehow be dealt for a low pick, you'd be looking at $6.3mil to spend on three forwards -- much more favorable, especially because it's not like they'll spend every dollar available headed into the year.

so that's my bored take on things. curious to see what others think is possible.
Great analysis. I'd still be interested in seeing if we could fit Vasicek into the mix. He seems to have many of the skills we are looking for .... big body, can score, can win faceoffs. And, may come relatively cheap.

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07-03-2008, 08:54 AM
  #55
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Another thought....

I wouldn't be surprised if Shero tries to get one big name on a one-year contract (like Jagr). And, then a couple of affordable multi-year contracts (in the Dupuis range). That way, he can fill out the roster with some depth, and leave open the possibility for signing Hossa, Zetterberg or Gaborik next year.

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07-03-2008, 09:16 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
Here's the crazy thing: I keep hearing people say that the Pens should go after Dan Boyle. OK, if Tampa needs relatively cheap bodies (which really is a rhetorical question after the Malone contract), maybe Scuderi+Gill for him? That would save Tampa $3.8M this year ... Scuderi+Sydor would save Tampa about $3.4M. (Of course, those are actual dollars, not the necessarily the 08-09 salary cap hit of those involved.)
I haven't seen or heard Boyle's name tied to the Pens anywhere.

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07-03-2008, 09:18 AM
  #57
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1-2 of our D+ some picks are getting traded. No, I don't have a source. This is my opinion, and I think it has to happen with 8-9 NHL capable D, something has to go and we have like 10 Mil in cap space (counting fleury) left for 4 wingers of any type.


I think shero is definitely looking at trading whitney now, and I want whitney to stay.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:49 PM
  #58
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Looking at the likley 9 mil we have left in cap room I'm not sure how we could have realistically kept Hossa. We would definitely have had to move Whitney at least just to open up some room.

We absolutely have to be moving Sydor to any taker for any price at this point to open up some room. If Sydor brings us back nothing more then some low ceiling scrub prospect then who cares. I would much rather have Satan for his same aprox salary then Sydor, and we need wingers.

I am still holding out hope we can bring Jagr in as I think he can still be an absolute game breaker. In fact I dont think hes much behind Hossa. Just wont be around as long. If that meant moving Whitney for some picks or prospects and Sydor for next to nothing id do it.

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07-03-2008, 01:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
We absolutely have to be moving Sydor to any taker for any price at this point to open up some room. If Sydor brings us back nothing more then some low ceiling scrub prospect then who cares. I would much rather have Satan for his same aprox salary then Sydor, and we need wingers.
Whoever will put the most pucks in a bag for us. It's not about the return on the trade, since the return on the trade is cap room to sign Sid Crosby's sniper.

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07-03-2008, 01:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
Looking at the likley 9 mil we have left in cap room I'm not sure how we could have realistically kept Hossa. We would definitely have had to move Whitney at least just to open up some room.

We absolutely have to be moving Sydor to any taker for any price at this point to open up some room. If Sydor brings us back nothing more then some low ceiling scrub prospect then who cares. I would much rather have Satan for his same aprox salary then Sydor, and we need wingers.

I am still holding out hope we can bring Jagr in as I think he can still be an absolute game breaker. In fact I dont think hes much behind Hossa. Just wont be around as long. If that meant moving Whitney for some picks or prospects and Sydor for next to nothing id do it.
I think we can just waive Sydor and if he clears, keep him in the AHL where we'd still have to pay him 2.5 million but he wouldn't count against the cap, as I understand it.

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Old
07-03-2008, 01:42 PM
  #61
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The Pens now have left for 4 million for 3 forwards. Good work by Shero.

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:35 PM
  #62
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updated with fleury, satan and fedotenko.

kinda sucks that it looks like they won't be able to land naslund, but obviously his price has gone up in the past 24 hours. i'm not a huge fan of either UFA winger, but on one-year deals, i'll learn to live with it.

with those 20 players listed, the pens would have $3,714,133 of cap room for the opening-night roster and three open spots.

but for now, there is that flexibility with the summer overage cap number. the upper limit from now until the end of training camp is $62.37mil instead of $56.7mil. theoretically, the pens could add about $8-9mil as long as they're down to the lower ceiling by october.

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07-03-2008, 02:38 PM
  #63
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PlayerPosCap 08/09
Malkin, EvgeniC3.834
Crosby, SidneyC8.700
Staal, JordanC2.200
Talbot, MaximeC0.675
Satan, MiroslavR3.500
Sykora, PetrR2.500
Kennedy, TylerR0.542
Veilleux, KevinR0.850
Caputi, LucaL0.833
Fedotenko, RuslanL2.250
Dupuis, PascalL1.400
Stone, RyanL0.900
Godard, EricE0.750
Whitney, RyanD4.000
Gonchar, SergeiD5.000
Orpik, BrooksD3.750
Eaton, MarkD2.000
Sydor, DarrylD2.500
Scuderi, RobD0.713
Letang, KrisD0.835
Gill, HalD2.075
Fleury, Marc-AndreG5.000
Sabourin, DanyG0.513
Total Cap Hit 55.320
Space Below Cap 1.380

We're in a pretty tight situation right now with our payroll. We currently have 55.320 in cap hit even if we were to fill the last 3 spots on our roster next season with Stone, Veilleux and Caputi. We really need to get rid of Sydor to have any chance at signing someone that makes more than $2 million per season.

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07-03-2008, 02:46 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by johnniewalker View Post
PlayerPosCap 08/09
Malkin, EvgeniC3.834
Crosby, SidneyC8.700
Staal, JordanC2.200
Talbot, MaximeC0.675
Satan, MiroslavR3.500
Sykora, PetrR2.500
Kennedy, TylerR0.542
Veilleux, KevinR0.850
Caputi, LucaL0.833
Fedotenko, RuslanL2.250
Dupuis, PascalL1.400
Stone, RyanL0.900
Godard, EricE0.750
Whitney, RyanD4.000
Gonchar, SergeiD5.000
Orpik, BrooksD3.750
Eaton, MarkD2.000
Sydor, DarrylD2.500
Scuderi, RobD0.713
Letang, KrisD0.835
Gill, HalD2.075
Fleury, Marc-AndreG5.000
Sabourin, DanyG0.513
Total Cap Hit 55.320
Space Below Cap 1.380

We're in a pretty tight situation right now with our payroll. We currently have 55.320 in cap hit even if we were to fill the last 3 spots on our roster next season with Stone, Veilleux and Caputi. We really need to get rid of Sydor to have any chance at signing someone that makes more than $2 million per season.
that's a great projection right there. i'd probably replace veilleux with taffe/brent/etc. and then you've got a tiny bit more space. it'd be great to see caputi have a surprising camp and get a shot, too. i think we'll see him make some NHL cameos this year while hopefully getting significant minutes in WBS when he's not.

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07-03-2008, 02:46 PM
  #65
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Can the poster claiming that Sydor is not an issue please step into this thread?

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07-03-2008, 02:52 PM
  #66
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I'm not sure on what the qualifying offer was to Stone, by the by. Has he signed it yet? I believe that last year he was making something like $835,000 or so, if I'm not mistaken.

I agree that Taffe/Brent might be more sensible than Veilleux next season. I just read the HF recap of our camp, and based on what the author said about Caputi and Veilleux, I think the chances are good that they are both on our club off and on next season.

Shero needs to do something about us having 8 defensemen. That's just totally unnecessary. We don't need to have Sydor on the team, and everyone knows that. We have Gogo pushing for a roster spot next season and that pretty much means he could fill in if we have 2 major injuries on the D.

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07-03-2008, 03:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by johnniewalker View Post
I'm not sure on what the qualifying offer was to Stone, by the by. Has he signed it yet? I believe that last year he was making something like $835,000 or so, if I'm not mistaken.

I agree that Taffe/Brent might be more sensible than Veilleux next season. I just read the HF recap of our camp, and based on what the author said about Caputi and Veilleux, I think the chances are good that they are both on our club off and on next season.

Shero needs to do something about us having 8 defensemen. That's just totally unnecessary. We don't need to have Sydor on the team, and everyone knows that. We have Gogo pushing for a roster spot next season and that pretty much means he could fill in if we have 2 major injuries on the D.
i haven't read anywhere that stone has accepted the QO yet, but i imagine he will. not like he's done anything in his career yet to deserve more. my brain's a little sketchy on what the mandatory percentage raise is for a QO though, so i've just been rounding his new number to $900k.

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07-03-2008, 04:09 PM
  #68
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What's up with NHLNumbers' projections? Right now they're suggesting we have about 3.8 yet.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...IT&season=0809

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07-03-2008, 05:27 PM
  #69
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Kurtis Mclean signed with the Isles

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07-03-2008, 05:49 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
that's a great projection right there. i'd probably replace veilleux with taffe/brent/etc. and then you've got a tiny bit more space. it'd be great to see caputi have a surprising camp and get a shot, too. i think we'll see him make some NHL cameos this year while hopefully getting significant minutes in WBS when he's not.
I would love to have Taffe back... he looked very good in the limited time that he played. I was actually upset that Hall played over Taffe, but Hall did score that big goal against Detroit.

He will only get a slight raise on the $500k he played for last year, and would be great centering the 4th line.

He just has a lot of poise when he plays, always makes the right play at the right time. Very intelligent, and play a bit of the physical game you want from a 4th liner.

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07-03-2008, 06:06 PM
  #71
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I still can't believe we're paying 2 million + for Gill, Eaton, and Sydor. What a way to eat up cap space.

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07-03-2008, 07:39 PM
  #72
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Nobody has brought up anything about the fact that NHLNumbers suggests the Pens are around 3.8 mil; I also heard Stan say the same thing moments ago on his show, contrary to the above total of around a mil or so below the cap.

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07-03-2008, 07:50 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
Nobody has brought up anything about the fact that NHLNumbers suggests the Pens are around 3.8 mil; I also heard Stan say the same thing moments ago on his show, contrary to the above total of around a mil or so below the cap.
We only have 10 forwards on our roster right now, and one of them is Eric Godard. My numbers that I posted above were what our cap situation would be like if we added 3 of our very inexpensive prospects to the roster to fill the 3 spots that we would need to go into the season with 13 forwards, 8 defensemen and 2 goalies under contract.

I chose Caputi, Veilleux and Stone because they fill roles that we need. (i.e. net presence and grit)

You're right that we technically have 3.8, but if we were to spend all of that on one player, we're going to have less than 12 forwards.

I was mainly trying to illustrate for everyone that we need to think about our remaining cap space in terms of where we would be if you were to stick some filler players into our open spots. If we add those 3 guys, then we only have a bit over a million left in wiggle room for the season. That is about all that I think Shero will do unless he can dump some salary someplace.

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07-03-2008, 07:58 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by johnniewalker View Post
We only have 10 forwards on our roster right now, and one of them is Eric Godard. My numbers that I posted above were what our cap situation would be like if we added 3 of our very inexpensive prospects to the roster to fill the 3 spots that we would need to go into the season with 13 forwards, 8 defensemen and 2 goalies under contract.

I chose Caputi, Veilleux and Stone because they fill roles that we need. (i.e. net presence and grit)

You're right that we technically have 3.8, but if we were to spend all of that on one player, we're going to have less than 12 forwards.

I was mainly trying to illustrate for everyone that we need to think about our remaining cap space in terms of where we would be if you were to stick some filler players into our open spots. If we add those 3 guys, then we only have a bit over a million left in wiggle room for the season. That is about all that I think Shero will do unless he can dump some salary someplace.
Thanks for the explanation. Couldn't understand why your numbers didn't match that of the other site, because everything on your list made sense as far as names.

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07-03-2008, 07:58 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
Nobody has brought up anything about the fact that NHLNumbers suggests the Pens are around 3.8 mil; I also heard Stan say the same thing moments ago on his show, contrary to the above total of around a mil or so below the cap.
what jw said. his numbers above are an estimate of a full 23-man roster.

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