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PK Subban Wins 2013 Norris Trophy

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06-11-2013, 12:40 PM
  #1
Jee
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PK Subban Wins 2013 Norris Trophy

Part I : http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1444925

Warnings:

Quote:
If you want to argue about why you think Subban shouldn't have won the Norris in 2013, then that's fine. If you want to make a pointless Karlsson > Subban debate, your post will be deleted.

Just a clarification, you could post about how you think Karlsson > Subban if it's related to the 2013 Norris Trophy.
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If anyone posts that "haters gunna hate" garbage again, you will be thread-banned.
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Any superfluous posts involving Erik Karlsson, regardless of whether it's pumping his tires to denigrate subban or vice versa, will earn the poster an infraction and a threadban.

If you're only in this thread to troll, you won't be in it much longer. Again, that goes for Habs, Sens or even Jokerit fans.
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A reminder that drive-by "XXX > Subban" posts are considered spam/trolling. If you are serious about your opinion, state your case in your post.
Tips: Give Subban some love. He had an amazing year and deserves the award.

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06-11-2013, 12:46 PM
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PoutineSp00nZ
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The funny thing is, the majority of people in this thread getting worked up over one side or the other probably haven't watched all the finalists play in more then a couple games this season.

It's ok though, they can look at corsi stats and know exactly what's going on

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06-11-2013, 12:48 PM
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Gentle Ben Kenobi
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I wonder how pissed the NHL is that this got leaked

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06-11-2013, 12:48 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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It's a great opportunity for the NHL to promote one of their most well spoken, enthusiastic, entertaining, skilled players on the ice, and a model citizen off the ice, in Subban.

I hope they take that opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poutineplato View Post
The funny thing is, the majority of people in this thread getting worked up over one side or the other probably haven't watched all the finalists play in more then a couple games this season.
I'll admit I only saw Suter play about 15 times this year.

Letang about 20 times, and Subban 42.

Plus the playoffs, obviously.

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06-11-2013, 12:51 PM
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JeffMangum
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Pretty ridiculous that Suter didn't win it over a guy who was fourth on his team in ES TOI/G and SH TOI/G. Subban played 17:02 of ES TOI/G, while Suter played 21:22. He played against the toughest competition, all night long.

So, no, I'm not going to give him any "love" because he didn't deserve it, quite frankly.

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06-11-2013, 12:52 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Pretty ridiculous that Suter didn't win it over a guy who was fourth on his team in ES TOI/G and SH TOI/G. Subban played 17:02 of ES TOI/G, while Suter played 21:22. He played against the toughest competition, all night long.

So, no, I'm not going to give him any "love" because he didn't deserve it, quite frankly.

I suppose Suter can win the TOI award then?

It's not like Subban didn't play heavy numbers against the top competition after Therrien stopped being an idiot about a third way into the season.

Yes, his SH numbers were low, but he did play SH minutes, and he was more important to the team on the PP. Which again, is a key component to the team, and he was definitely the best PP QB in the league.



It skewed the numbers due to the shortened season, but it's really not as bad as some people are making it out to be.

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06-11-2013, 12:54 PM
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Next people will claim the Habs rigged the voting with bribes and fake ballots.

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06-11-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I suppose Suter can win the TOI award then?

It's not like Subban didn't play heavy numbers against the top competition after Therrien stopped being an idiot about a third way into the season.
No, but he can win the "actually played against top competition and still was on pace for ~58 points" award.

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06-11-2013, 12:54 PM
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I agree Suter deserved it, but really happy Subban got it. It's not like he's not in the conversation.

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06-11-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I suppose Suter can win the TOI award then?

It's not like Subban didn't play heavy numbers against the top competition after Therrien stopped being an idiot about a third way into the season.



It skewed the numbers due to the shortened season, but it's really not as bad as some people are making it out to be.
So he played at a Norris level for half of the half season?

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06-11-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Pretty ridiculous that Suter didn't win it over a guy who was fourth on his team in ES TOI/G and SH TOI/G. Subban played 17:02 of ES TOI/G, while Suter played 21:22. He played against the toughest competition, all night long.

So, no, I'm not going to give him any "love" because he didn't deserve it, quite frankly.
And yet all year the rest of the league (mainly Bruins fans tho) whined that the Habs had by far the most PP TOI. They also were 3rd for PK TOI. At the end of the day, Montreal simply has less ES TOI than other teams. Also, I don't remember the Norris being the ''most TOI relative to his teamates'' award.

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06-11-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
So he played at a Norris level for half of the half season?
Like Suter.

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06-11-2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Pretty ridiculous that Suter didn't win it over a guy who was fourth on his team in ES TOI/G and SH TOI/G. Subban played 17:02 of ES TOI/G, while Suter played 21:22. He played against the toughest competition, all night long.

So, no, I'm not going to give him any "love" because he didn't deserve it, quite frankly.
When Jared Spurgeon is your third best D-man, it's very normal to play that much

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06-11-2013, 12:56 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
So he played at a Norris level for half of the half season?
14 is half of 42?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
No, but he can win the "actually played against top competition and still was on pace for ~58 points" award.
I suppose he's a shoo-in for that made up award.

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06-11-2013, 12:56 PM
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28 games ~ half of 48

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06-11-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jee View Post
When Jared Spurgeon is your third best D-man, it's very normal to play that much
Exactly why Suter should have won the Norris. He completely carried that defense, at both ends of the ice.

Subban did have a fantastic season, but I don't think people realize how incredible Suter was.

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06-11-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Exactly why Suter should have won the Norris. He completely carried that defense, at both ends of the ice.

Subban did have a fantastic season, but I don't think people realize how incredible Suter was.
Two weeks ago Brodin was the player who carried that team. How things change.

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06-11-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Pretty ridiculous that Suter didn't win it over a guy who was fourth on his team in ES TOI/G and SH TOI/G. Subban played 17:02 of ES TOI/G, while Suter played 21:22. He played against the toughest competition, all night long.

So, no, I'm not going to give him any "love" because he didn't deserve it, quite frankly.
Quote:
This season, PK's contract negotiations and his lack of playing time in any other professional league during the lockout did not allow him to put up consistent #1 TOI/G numbers as well as his quality of competition numbers as well. The first month of the season, coaching staff had decided to ease him back to his #1 pairing role when he was in game shape and timing had returned. That being said, 2/3 of his season PK was playing #1 pairing minutes along with Andrei Markov, with limited usage on the Penalty Kill, which was a coaching decision.
This quote from my post on Part I should clarify why on the bolded part. You don't have to give him "love" but you (as in people on this board, not you specifically) don't have to "hate" on him.

We'll see when the voting results are published, but if Suter and PK are close I would understand and not be too mad. As should Suter fans/people who thought Suter should have won.

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06-11-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
No, but he can win the "actually played against top competition and still was on pace for ~58 points" award.
Debating the choice is correct but saying that Subban doesn't deserves it screams sour grapes. Subban did play against the toughest opposition.

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06-11-2013, 12:59 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Exactly why Suter should have won the Norris. He completely carried that defense, at both ends of the ice.

Subban did have a fantastic season, but I don't think people realize how incredible Suter was.
I disagree. Brodin was a fantastic partner for Suter and helped him out, whereas Subban carried his partners all year, by a large margin.


How does Jonas Brodin effect Suter compared to how Josh Gorges effects Subban? Let's find out.

With you/Without you

Subban Statistic Suter
56.1% Gorges/Brodin's Corsi percentage with Subban/Suter 48.3%
47.4% Gorges/Brodin's Corsi percentage without Subban/Suter 56.7%
58.6% Subban/Suter's Corsi percentage without Gorges/Brodin 43.6%
+8.7% Positive Corsi differential for Gorges/Brodin -8.4%
-2.5% Corsi drag on Subban/Suter +4.7%

Now here is where things get interesting. It seems like it's Brodin, not Suter, who is the play driver on Minnesota's top pairing. The rookie defender carries Suter's possession to nearly the extent that Gorges is carried by Subban. It seems that the media is too wrapped up in Suter's name to see who the real player of value is.

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06-11-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Exactly why Suter should have won the Norris. He completely carried that defense, at both ends of the ice.

Subban did have a fantastic season, but I don't think people realize how incredible Suter was.
Put Gorges and Markov on Minnesota and I guarantee you Suter wouldn't have played that much. He carried his team's defense only because there was no other option.

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06-11-2013, 01:00 PM
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Dr Gonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
28 games ~ half of 48
For 14 games he was under utilized.

For 28 games he was not.

14 out of 42 is.....not 50%. LOL. (Hint, it's one third)

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06-11-2013, 01:00 PM
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" the Norris trophy should be awarded to the defenceman that best demonstrates the ability to play the most minutes."

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06-11-2013, 01:00 PM
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Maybe Suter can train with PK over the summer to get better.

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06-11-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jee View Post
Put Gorges and Markov on Minnesota and I guarantee you Suter wouldn't have played that much. He carried his team's defense only because there was no other option.
And? He did play that much, and he excelled in those heavy minutes.

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