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Old
11-11-2008, 11:26 AM
  #226
sharkeyanti
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This might have been raised elsewhere, but doesn't jumbling your team's lines every week mess with the players' ability to get comfortable on the ice with eachother?

I mean sure, these are professional hockey players, they can adjust, but we've had about 2 or 3 years straight of undetermined lines. Hitch did this a little in his last full year and Stevens has been doing this non stop. It's not as if one guying is changing with another guy, pretty much everything changes every time.

What's the theory other than "shaking things up?" It clearly hasn't worked for the past couple years. It seems like Stevens wants these guys to play Total Football, just expecting them to fill whatever role is on the ice.

Stevens' system doesn't seem clear some times because it's not elegant whatsoever. His style seems to be based on playing to individual strengths and weaknesses, and by challenging the player mentally. His team designs are fairly straightforward and predictable. Many people on this board have voiced an opinion that he needs to let the speedy guys use their speed, and I couldnt agree more! Have a guy like Carter sprint over the blue line and let him make the decision whether to shoot or lay it off. He has such a great stride and size, but he is being used with very little versatility, such that it makes his linemates one dimensional.

The great thing that the Flyers have (or Stevens' may have instilled) is that they stay calm under pressure. Sure they have mental lapses (i.e. too many post-lockout penalties) but rarely will you see a group of flyers scrambling aimlessly. They trust eachother, it's just they don't have that indispensable level of familiarity that great teams show.

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Old
11-11-2008, 11:30 AM
  #227
IrishSniper87
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For god sakes John Steven's play what works and just LEAVE THE LINES ALONE.

Gagne-Briere-Knuble
Hartnell-Richards-Lupul
Upshall-Carter-Nodl
Cote-Metro-Asham

Coburn-Timonen
Vaananen-Carle
Sbisa-Parent
Kukks

Trade Jones and Alberts for anything.

Is this so hard??? I even anticipated for what side the defensemen like to play on. All I ask is you keep together what works.

Coburn-Timonen works
Richards-Lupul works
Hartnell-Richards works
Hell, Richards works
Upshall-Carter works
Gagne-Briere works

Steven's is an NHL coach, can he NOT see this???

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Old
11-11-2008, 11:38 AM
  #228
Juicy Couturier*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
But doesnt it mean that the games we scored 6 or more was cause Lups decided to put up 2 goals and 2 assists. His streakyness causes the high scoring games. The reason for the 6 or more games is that he scores 2 goals and puts up 2 assists but other people also score. He's a streaky player, I don't think one can change that. Its the same with Hartnell and Biron/Nitty.
Lupul doesnt have 2 assists on the whole season so he never had 2 goals and 2 assists in a game. He had a game with 1 goal and 1 assist and 2 games with 2 goals. In the 2 games he scored twice the scored of the games would be 5-0 flyers and 4-3 flyers if you take away his goals in the other game he had a goal and an assist we would have lost 6-4 in regulation rather than in overtime. So no, I wouldnt say that the reason we scored so many goals was because of him because without his goals and assists in those 3 games the flyers scored 13 goals(over 4 goals a game) that he did not have a point on.

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Old
11-11-2008, 11:44 AM
  #229
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Briere on Richard's wing didnt work so I doubt it will work with Carter. Briere at center with Gags works. I really wouldnt change that. I was one of the few that didnt like Briere at wing so I hope he stays in the middle.
Keep in mind this is coming from someone who DOESNT want Briere on the wing. He actually was not that bad with Richards, I think that hurt the rest of the team more than Briere specifically. The only issue I had with Briere and Richards together was that they both like to dangle with the puck and carry it. I think putting Briere with someone like Carter who he can dish the puck to, and have Upshall/Hartnell do the dirty work could possibly work, who knows.

I do want him to stay in the middle though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkeyanti View Post
This might have been raised elsewhere, but doesn't jumbling your team's lines every week mess with the players' ability to get comfortable on the ice with eachother?

I mean sure, these are professional hockey players, they can adjust, but we've had about 2 or 3 years straight of undetermined lines. Hitch did this a little in his last full year and Stevens has been doing this non stop. It's not as if one guying is changing with another guy, pretty much everything changes every time.

What's the theory other than "shaking things up?" It clearly hasn't worked for the past couple years. It seems like Stevens wants these guys to play Total Football, just expecting them to fill whatever role is on the ice.

Stevens' system doesn't seem clear some times because it's not elegant whatsoever. His style seems to be based on playing to individual strengths and weaknesses, and by challenging the player mentally. His team designs are fairly straightforward and predictable. Many people on this board have voiced an opinion that he needs to let the speedy guys use their speed, and I couldnt agree more! Have a guy like Carter sprint over the blue line and let him make the decision whether to shoot or lay it off. He has such a great stride and size, but he is being used with very little versatility, such that it makes his linemates one dimensional.

The great thing that the Flyers have (or Stevens' may have instilled) is that they stay calm under pressure. Sure they have mental lapses (i.e. too many post-lockout penalties) but rarely will you see a group of flyers scrambling aimlessly. They trust eachother, it's just they don't have that indispensable level of familiarity that great teams show.
Agreed. The team has chemistry from a personality standpoint....They like each other, they stand up for each other and they dont wilt under pressure. I have given Steven's credit for this in the past, whether we really know if it is him that instilled this or not. However, they dont play like they have that chemistry from a sytematic standpoint....They look unorganized. This is where all the "system" comments about Stevens come up.

As for the line juggling, I HATE IT!!!!!!!!! My favorite example is Getzlaf and Perry in Anaheim. They came up together, played on the 4th line as rookies together, and moved up to the 2nd and then the first liine TOGETHER. If players show chemistry, LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!

I like the philosphy Detroit always used....pairs of players stay together and you rotate the other winger.

Gagne/Briere
Richards/Lupul
Carter/Uphsall

Those pairs should always stay together and you rotate Knuble, Hartnell and whoever the other winger is at the time as you need.

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Old
11-14-2008, 07:42 AM
  #230
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Actually, a healthy Brière is pretty much par for the course this season no matter what position he played, meaning he's averaging a little bit over a point a game and so far there has been only a single game where he did not get a point. The difference is only that when he was at Cannon's wing he got assists, but as center he scores goals instead.

If I'm not mistaken, the Gags-Cannon-Brière line was in place up till Colorado. In those 4 games, Danny got 4 assists but no goals. Then against in San Jose he scored two goals, at home against San Jose he scored one goal. Then came the injuries but against Tampa and the Islanders he scored a goal each. In those 4 games he played centering the first line, he scored 5 goals but no assists.



I completely agree and also hate the Line Juggling and concidering the chemistries described, the only possible lines are these in a healthy team:

Gagné - Brière - Knuble
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul
Upshall - Carter - Nödl
Cote - Metropolit - Asham

Damn, I'm not going to blame them since our team has really plays like **** sometimes, but the Injured list is really awful to look at:
Brière, Cote, Ossi, Jones, Parent, Powe.
Thank god those are not all the big names but they are still useful to the team.

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Old
12-12-2008, 11:38 PM
  #231
flyersfan187
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What do you guys want to happen with the lines when Briere and Jones come back from injury?

Its really tuff. I want to see that fourth line stay together.

For me I'd go with

Gagne, Richards, Briere
Hartnell, Carter, Knuble
Upshall, Metro, Lupul
Cote, Powe, Asham

Timenon, Ossi
Coburn, Carle
Sbisa, Alberts

But then there is Jones. Idk. Have Alberts and Jones split time? I like Nodl on the third line but he can go back to the ahl team.

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Old
12-12-2008, 11:51 PM
  #232
TheDrizzle81
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gags richie knuble
harts carts lupul
scottie danny nodes
riley metro asham


kimmo coby
ossi carle
parent jones/alberts.

pp1
gags danny knuble
kimmo richie

pp2
harts carts lupul
carle coby

pk1
gags richie
kimmo coby

pk2
carts knuble
ossi jones/alberts

tweak from there. lol.

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