Except for the fact that it will really hurt the team chemistry when 22 other guys know their #1 centre doesnt want to play for the team. If he isnt putting 100% into it the return could be a lot less come Nov/Dec. Not saying that Olli would do this. I've heard he's a pretty stand up guy, and does a lot in the community.
I wish we could have been trade partners 2 summers ago. Pronger for Luongo straight up would have been better for both teams....ahhh hindsight.
Yeah, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No one actually KNOWS anything. Dreger didn't use any quotes or anything. We don't know its validity.
If Olli shoots down the rumors, then the other guys know that its just a rumor. If he doesn't, then yeah, it would definitely cause problems. The hockey gods know we don't need anymore locker room drama.
Trust me. When the last star player asked for a trade; the team didnt get the exciting return that they/fans expected.
Chris Pronger
for
Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, 1st in 07, 2nd in 08, and a conditional 1st in 08(if they won the cup or the finals...cant remember, and dont want to)
I wont bother making a trade proposal because this board will be full of them or should I offer the customary Pitkanen, Torres, and Schremp for him? nah I think I've heard that one before
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick
Except for the fact that it will really hurt the team chemistry when 22 other guys know their #1 centre(and captain) doesnt want to play for the team. If he isnt putting 100% into it the return could be a lot less come Nov/Dec. Not saying that Olli would do this. I've heard he's a pretty stand up guy, and does a lot in the community.
I wish we could have been trade partners 2 summers ago. Pronger for Luongo straight up would have been better for both teams....ahhh hindsight.
Even still, Martin doesn't have to trade him and could hold out for the best deal. While there's the Pronger deal out there, Martin was also able to turn an immpending UFA in Bertuzzi into a 2nd and Matthias. Not a bad return, especially since Detroit lost him.
I just don't think Martin's gonig to allow his hand to be forced when it comes to Olli. Heatley also asked to be traded and Atlanta got back Hossa. Albeit they weren't able to ice a winner, but the Pronger trade isn't the mandatory.
__________________ Gudbranson fanboy and defender for liiiiiife!
Yeah, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. No one actually KNOWS anything. Dreger didn't use any quotes or anything. We don't know its validity.
If Olli shoots down the rumors, then the other guys know that its just a rumor. If he doesn't, then yeah, it would definitely cause problems. The hockey gods know we don't need anymore locker room drama.
Dreger works for Canada's largest sportsnetwork. He's not known for coming up with Eklandish rumours just to drive traffic to his blog. Hopefully it's not true and Olli stays in Florida as I dont see the Panthers and Oilers as good trading partners, and I dont want to see Olli in the western conference(esp. Calgary or Vancouver
I think McKenzie or Dreger or both said Jokinen was as good as gone at the deadline. This isn't the first time an "insider" has said Jokinen wants out and the last time that rumor started, Jokinen shot it down.
and we have good information indicating he was indeed on the block at the time. remember, this is a guy who acted like an adolescent when he bailed on a public appearance, causing great embarrassment to the team and showing poor leadership (is this what you expect from your captain, most recognizable name and highest paid player?).
also, just because olli asks for a trade (yes, i do believe dreger), doesn't mean it's necessarily going to happen. as we found out at the deadline, JM isn't like the jackass we had here a few years ago who, when confronted with a challenge, shipped the challenge away with little regard for the return.
I don't get why so many people are upset with Martin calling out Olli. I mean, Keenan was rough on him and Olli responded. Martin doesn't really know how to do that, so perhaps that was his way of trying to wake Olli up after the Zednik accident. Can anyone really say that Olli wasn't in a funk?
I'm not saying Martin was right, but there are a lot of coaches who publically call out their players, sometimes the player responds and other times the player's on his way out. If it betters this team to trade Olli based on what's coming back, so be it. I'll miss Olli, but I'll be happy my team is winning, if it leads to that.
There are so many he said, he said things out there right now that it's to believe any of them. I'll love it if Olli stays, and I could be very happy he's gone based on the return. I'll believe Olli's gone when I see him in a new team's sweater, though.
Yeah, Same here. Jokinen has been a big part of this team for many years and is our all-time leading scorer so it would be very sad to see him go. But like Laus723 said, I may be happy depending on the return.
Dreger works for Canada's largest sportsnetwork. He's not known for coming up with Eklandish rumours just to drive traffic to his blog. Hopefully it's not true and Olli stays in Florida as I dont see the Panthers and Oilers as good trading partners, and I dont want to see Olli in the western conference(esp. Calgary or Vancouver
I mean, i'm not saying it is or isn't true, i'm just reminding everyone that it is just as easily false as it true.
But yeah, with the years of rumors about good florida players being unhappy that, for some reason, start in canada, i'm just gonna step back and wait 'till i hear something from either Martin or Olli.
you are off your rocker man. and, from what i can recall, dead wrong. the sequence of events was pretty simple - olli owns up to the fact he'd been playing poorly, giving less than full effort; JM is asked about the comment and responds by saying that, yeah, olli hasn't been the PPG + player he has been the past couple of years. as far as i can recall (someone correct me if i'm wrong), JM was *not* riding olli in the press and did not continue his comments after that one incident. i mean, is a coach/GM not allowed to call out his players when they aren't giving effort? hell, if you ask me, JM was TOO patient with olli; he showed olli too much respect.
You think I'm off my rocker? Olli said he needed to pick up his game and give a better effort but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying. There are several instances when he's talked about Olli negatively. In the stretch run he called him out several times. After the season, he told numerous media outlets about how Olli was very disappointing. This has happened more than a few times and I don't think I'm wrong on this.
Also, JM pointing blame is what I have the most issue with here. There's a reason he was fired and it was because his coaching had a LARGE part to do with us missing the playoffs again. He didn't get the most out of his players and he also failed to bring people in in the offseason that would properly augment this team. That's directly on him. Then he blamed injuries when at the same time he talked about personal accountability with regards to Jokinen. Jokinen has always been accountable. He calls himself out in the paper and always used to over the years when he had bad games. Martin telling everyone Olli's poor play is the main reason we didn't make the playoffs is messed up, even if it is partially true, because Martin is as much to blame as anyone, and no one is calling him out in the papers.
Dreger works for Canada's largest sportsnetwork. He's not known for coming up with Eklandish rumours just to drive traffic to his blog. Hopefully it's not true and Olli stays in Florida as I dont see the Panthers and Oilers as good trading partners, and I dont want to see Olli in the western conference(esp. Calgary or Vancouver
I remember watching TSN on trade deadline day and everyone on there was dead shocked when Jokinen wasn't traded, yet almost everyone on this board knew it wasn't going to happen. So it's not like the know EVERYTHING.
"I think Olli is a top-line centre and I've had some calls about him," Panthers GM Jacques Martin told The Canadian Press. "We had some conversations before the trading deadline. I don't know what's going to happen. If we can help our hockey club, we will, and he could be a player that's involved.
"But at this point in time I don't have anything firm. I don't know what's going to happen at this point in time."
I remember watching TSN on trade deadline day and everyone on there was dead shocked when Jokinen wasn't traded, yet almost everyone on this board knew it wasn't going to happen. So it's not like the know EVERYTHING.
I kinda believe this. Bob McKenzie was on NHL LIVE yesterday and talked about Jokinen possibly being traded. He said he thinks he'll probably be traded and for young players/prospects/picks. I respect McKenzie more than any other hockey "insider" out there, by far. The man's rep is impeccable. But I thought he was a little off because IMO Martin would only trade Jokinen for a more playmaking oriented forward and maybe a 1st. But here we are the next day, with Dreger saying Jokinen wants a trade and now the return would most likely be two young roster players and a 1st. If Martin doesn't get the return he wants, he won't trade him, but I really think Olli is gone. Some team will pony up IMO, especially with the lack of good #1 centers available in UFA. We'll get a very good return if he's traded I believe. Whether or not Olli will ever bounce back to the player he was is very questionable IMO, and this may be a good thing. We could get a great return, even overpayment, and potentially still have cap room to sign another forward in UFA.
Olli's done a lot for this team, but I don't think Martin was out of line at all, he deserved to be called out and a coach has every right to call out his players. Even before the Zednik injury, he took too many nights off for my liking, and his commitment to defense also dropped off considerably this season. Maybe Olli didn't like Martin calling him out publicly at the end of the year, but whatever, he definitely deserved it, and if he wants a trade, then so be it. Depending on what the return is, and the prospect we select with the potential 1st, this could turn out to be robbery for us, especially if Jokinen struggles again next year.
"I think Olli is a top-line centre and I've had some calls about him," Panthers GM Jacques Martin told The Canadian Press. "We had some conversations before the trading deadline. I don't know what's going to happen. If we can help our hockey club, we will, and he could be a player that's involved.
"But at this point in time I don't have anything firm. I don't know what's going to happen at this point in time."
I wouldn't put too much credibility in that. The last thing a GM wants to do is advertise that his player has asked for a trade, so he would have said that whether or not Olli had in fact asked for a trade.
You think I'm off my rocker? Olli said he needed to pick up his game and give a better effort but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying. There are several instances when he's talked about Olli negatively. In the stretch run he called him out several times. After the season, he told numerous media outlets about how Olli was very disappointing. This has happened more than a few times and I don't think I'm wrong on this.
Also, JM pointing blame is what I have the most issue with here. There's a reason he was fired and it was because his coaching had a LARGE part to do with us missing the playoffs again. He didn't get the most out of his players and he also failed to bring people in in the offseason that would properly augment this team. That's directly on him. Then he blamed injuries when at the same time he talked about personal accountability with regards to Jokinen. Jokinen has always been accountable. He calls himself out in the paper and always used to over the years when he had bad games. Martin telling everyone Olli's poor play is the main reason we didn't make the playoffs is messed up, even if it is partially true, because Martin is as much to blame as anyone, and no one is calling him out in the papers.
haha. yes, you are, man. JM parroted olli's self-criticism and perhaps repeated it one time during the subsequent couple of days. everyone made a big fuss about it because of the alleged rift. otherwise, it would not have been big news. JM DID NOT rip him - he simply said that, when you objectivly look at the numbers, his play is down. that's it. i have a feeling JM was partly driven by the fact that olli had supposedly had the inside track with cohen (don't get me started on that BS) but still, his comments were, relatively speaking tame. you guys made and continue to make a mountain out of a molehill.
in general, the team was missing the commitment from its leaders. that is the absolute bottom line - when they played a solid, team game, they won the game. you can complain about what you perceive as an inability to relate to the players (how the hell would you know???) or lack of emotion on the bench, but the fact of the matter is that this guy is one of the best coaches in the game (the problem was not his coaching, i don't care what anybody says). he was perfectly within his rights to criticize the team's leaders when trying to rally the team during the playoff run. and since when does a GM/coach come out and say "yeah, i blew the whole thing. i suck."? it doesn't happen very often and never, in a fragile situation like we have here where you have a holdover captain who is challenging the GM/coach's authority; you just can't afford to.
and this talk about jokinen being accountable is laughable. we've heard the same crap from him the past 3 years and yet, when push comes to shove, he disappears. worse, his lack of effort has apparently infected his teammates. what he says after the game means nothing. if you want to see someone hold themselves accountable and then deliver, take a look at kevin garnett's performance tonight.
I have a feeling that you're going to be VERY upset with the return Jokinen brings when he does get traded. You'll get some nice pieces, but nothing like that. Jokinen's trade value went into the toilet the moment he asked for a trade. The only saving grace here is that the UFA class sucks.
With all the talk this offseason from Kevin Lowe about wanting to add another high end forward, and being in a position to make a 3-for-1 type of deal, I could see the Oilers making an offer, but I don't think he'll end up in Edmonton.
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If you are offended by this post, it's probably because you're ugly.
I have a feeling that you're going to be VERY upset with the return Jokinen brings when he does get traded. You'll get some nice pieces, but nothing like that. Jokinen's trade value went into the toilet the moment he asked for a trade. The only saving grace here is that the UFA class sucks.
When exactly was it confirmed that he has asked for a trade?
Since this is a rumor, and most of the discussion seems to be fans of other teams who are itching to make fantasy deals telling Panther fans that they won't get much for Olli, I'm going to quash this discussion until such time as we get some corroboration.
I give Olli 50% odds of not being a Panther within the next 4 days. That said, I don't want this board to get flooded with new threads for every single report on Olli's status.
I'll open a new thread and sticky it until the draft for rumors and news regarding our team's captain. Discussion can go there (but not trade offers).
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"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
or should I offer the customary Pitkanen, Torres, and Schremp for him? nah I think I've heard that one before
