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Naslund on his way out of Vancouver "Money not the important part"

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Old
06-18-2008, 03:44 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
Rob Brown was garbage, just lucky to play with the right players. Ryan Malone scored 27, but he's not exactly the cat's meow. #'s were severely inflated, screw him. If there's one person I hate above all else in the NHL, it's Sykora.
Sykora has scored goals everywhere he has been, that is his role. If you expect him to be something more than a pure finisher than no wonder you hate him.

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06-18-2008, 03:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TheHomelessAteMyCat View Post
Then I guess that rules out Pittsburgh. Same defensive system and all...
Both teams may have defense first coaches but the systems are FAR from the same.

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06-18-2008, 04:08 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Both teams may have defense first coaches but the systems are FAR from the same.
actually their systems are pretty much the same...

the difference is that one team has elite offensive players to plug into that system... the other has a couple of solid offensive guys, and a bunch of pluggers to go with them.

that's the biggest difference... not the coaching style or the system each team employs.

put AV in Pittsburgh and Therrien in Vancouver, and you'll still see Pittsburgh as having a much more offensive system, because they have the offensive guns and the players to play with offensive creativity to go with it.

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06-18-2008, 04:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Both teams may have defense first coaches but the systems are FAR from the same.
There may be nuances, but essentially it's the same system, with an immensely more skilled offensive personnel in Pitts.

Pens fans, correct if I'm wrong, but Naslund would still be responsible for crossing his side of the red line. Something he didn't have to do in his "glory" days. Him and Bertuzzi had a dedicated nanny named Brendan.

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06-18-2008, 04:12 PM
  #80
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I fully believe nassy is a 70 point guy still. He needs a BIG change and go to a team where he isn't relied on.

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06-18-2008, 04:13 PM
  #81
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Therrien and Vigneault employ drastically different structures. I dont' know where you guys think they play the same way.

Pittsburgh plays off the rush, never dump/chase, always carrying it through the blueline. Vancouver dominantly plays dump/chase. Centers hardly carry it in themselves, defence do but only to buy time for the forwards to get in deep.

Defense wise its still different. Vancouver completely collapses to the net like Detroit while Pittsburgh leaves the slot open while the defense watch the hash marks and the forwards are up high ready to transition. Vigneault would bench a player for the season if they were regularly that high up with the other team having posession.

They're completely two different styles.

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06-18-2008, 04:14 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Therrien and Vigneault employ drastically different structures. I dont' know where you guys think they play the same way.
Vigneault said as much at the end of the year press conference. He mentioned that Pittsburgh plays the same system because he taught it to Michel Therrien when they were in Montreal together. He also mentioned that the personnel you have to run it makes the difference in how it is executed.

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06-18-2008, 04:17 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
actually their systems are pretty much the same...

the difference is that one team has elite offensive players to plug into that system... the other has a couple of solid offensive guys, and a bunch of pluggers to go with them.

that's the biggest difference... not the coaching style or the system each team employs.

put AV in Pittsburgh and Therrien in Vancouver, and you'll still see Pittsburgh as having a much more offensive system, because they have the offensive guns and the players to play with offensive creativity to go with it.
I agree both Pittsburgh and Vancouver play a version of the "Montreal" system but to say they are the same is wrong. The Penguins have the centers, as you suggested, that are able to contain a large majority of the responsibly on the ice-both offensively and defensively.

Pittsburgh because of it's personnel, is obviously able to create more offense and take more chances. Naslund's role in that would be different, especially at defense, because of the ability of the players around him.

Basically I agree with most of what you said, but that the systems while based off of the same basic design, are significantly different.

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06-18-2008, 04:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Vigneault said as much at the end of the year press conference. He mentioned that Pittsburgh plays the same system because he taught it to Michel Therrien when they were in Montreal together. He also mentioned that the personnel you have to run it makes the difference in how it is executed.
Then Therrien was a bad student because they do not play the same at all.

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06-18-2008, 04:23 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Mark144 View Post
Sykora has scored goals everywhere he has been, that is his role. If you expect him to be something more than a pure finisher than no wonder you hate him.
I expect him to not be a ***** and play a pivotal game 5 when you're supposed to be one of the go to guys on your team.

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06-18-2008, 04:26 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Therrien and Vigneault employ drastically different structures. I dont' know where you guys think they play the same way.

Pittsburgh plays off the rush, never dump/chase, always carrying it through the blueline. Vancouver dominantly plays dump/chase. Centers hardly carry it in themselves, defence do but only to buy time for the forwards to get in deep.

Defense wise its still different. Vancouver completely collapses to the net like Detroit while Pittsburgh leaves the slot open while the defense watch the hash marks and the forwards are up high ready to transition. Vigneault would bench a player for the season if they were regularly that high up with the other team having posession.

They're completely two different styles.
again, that has everything to do with personnel.

Just look at the times when Kesler has the puck... how often will he dump and chase, compared to fly up the ice and put the defenders skating back? It's because he's really the only center on the team with speed (especially last couple of years with Morrison's injuries).

When Henrik carries the puck, he just doesn't have the speed to create the same offense... that's why you'll see the Sedins usually play dump and chase, because they are better along the boards, but don't have the speed through the neutral zone.

In Pittsburgh, you have excellent skating centers that can fly through the neutral zone, allowing their centers to hold on to the puck more, instead of having to dump and chase.

More often than not, a team's style revolves around the abilities of the players they have. the canucks rely heavily on their defense because they lack overall offensive skills up front through most of the lineup... whereas in Pittsburgh, it's the forwards that have that offensive creativity.

I'm sure that if you switch the coaches on both teams, their style of play wouldn't differ all that much. And if Gillis is actually able to add some more offensive talent to the canucks, I'm sure that under AV you'll see the forwards carrying the puck more often, and showing more offensive creativity overall.

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06-18-2008, 04:27 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Vigneault said as much at the end of the year press conference. He mentioned that Pittsburgh plays the same system because he taught it to Michel Therrien when they were in Montreal together. He also mentioned that the personnel you have to run it makes the difference in how it is executed.
It also helps when you have some talent to execute the system properly. Ritchie and Isbister just don't cut it.

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06-18-2008, 04:32 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by OmegaWeapon View Post
It's no secret that Naslund likes offensive style of hockey, and that he wants to go to a cup contender. Out of my head, these are the hockey places that fits him:

pittsburgh
Capitals
Detroit
Nashville
Colorado


Should be interesting to see
Montreal? I think Naslund could be decent here.

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Old
06-18-2008, 05:13 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Therrien and Vigneault employ drastically different structures. I dont' know where you guys think they play the same way.

Pittsburgh plays off the rush, never dump/chase, always carrying it through the blueline. Vancouver dominantly plays dump/chase. Centers hardly carry it in themselves, defence do but only to buy time for the forwards to get in deep.

Defense wise its still different. Vancouver completely collapses to the net like Detroit while Pittsburgh leaves the slot open while the defense watch the hash marks and the forwards are up high ready to transition. Vigneault would bench a player for the season if they were regularly that high up with the other team having posession.

They're completely two different styles.
Pens used dump and chase quite often this year. You're pretty spot on about the D, though.

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06-18-2008, 05:56 PM
  #90
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i wouldn't rule out naslund returning to vancouver just yet because he:
-said many times how much van reminds him of sweden, how he loves it here and how he doesn't want to move his kids from their schools.
-if money is no issue, he can (will have to) sign at a discount and that will still leaves plenty of cap space for gillis to improve the team. which brings me to my next point.
-if gillis use those cap space to acquire offensive players, somebody that can complement naslund's style, than that satisfy half of naslund's desire to play with offensive players.
-and as AV mentioned a few times, his system is the same as pittsburg (we can argue all we want whether that is true or not, but i'll take his word for it) so if AV is given more offensive players, we should be playing similar to the pens type of hockey. that should satisfy the other half of naslund's request.

overall i still think theres a decent chance nazzy remains a canuck, he probably won't be the first one to sign in the summer because he want to see what the 30 teams will look like for next season. if gillis shows early on that he is building a more offensive team, he just might stay. all these speculations of him signing in ottawa or pittsburg is alittle premature IMO.

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06-18-2008, 05:58 PM
  #91
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Naslund is finished as a player and im hoping he is not on the Canucks team next year, and most Canuck fans seem to agree. The guy will be lucky to crack 20 goals next year on a team with a bit of offensive talent where he wont be the go to guy on the pp. Deffensivily hes horrible, and offensively he has nothing going for him anymore, his shot is gone, he is slowing down and he just isnt the player he used to be. Mark my words, he will be lucky to crack 20 next year and I doubt he will crack 50 points.

^AV is a cancer on the team, I have been saying this for a while. The players dont like him and respect him.

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06-18-2008, 06:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The Blackhawks are pretty thin on LW so I could see the Hawks making an offer.

He could play on a line with Lang If we keep Lang around.
Somehow I don't see that pitch working:

*Dale Tallon calls up Naslund*

Dale: Hey, Markus. How'd you like to play for the Hawks?

Markus: Geez...I dunno.

Dale: Think about it. You may get to play with *pauses for increased dramatic effect*...Robert Lang!

*Markus' jaw drops to the floor*

Yeah. somehow I don't see that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob116 View Post
Yzerman he's not...

I've been one of Naslund's biggest defenders over the years, but I find his comments very disappointing. It sounds as though he's not willing to do what's necessary to win - or that he doesn't really know what that is. It's unfortunate, seems I may have given him too much credit.
Hey, it's not his fault Nonis sucks at building a talented forward core. He had no one to play with basically for the last couple seasons, besides the 'cycle twins'. I don't blame him for a second.

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06-18-2008, 06:58 PM
  #93
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If Naslund wants to play in the NHL, he has littl echoice but to say "the money's not important." I think he would be a good signing at the right price, somewhere in the 2 million range maybe, say 4.5 over two years. But it would have to be to a team where he could ride shotgun on a line with some dynamic offensive players.

Naslund put in some great years in Vancouver, some not as great, I think as Vancouver fans we should wish him well. I hope that his days as a Canuck are done. Getting his contract off the books has been a big focus on the coast for the past two years. My only wish is that we could actually move his rights for a mid range pick, as Prospal's rights were moved today.

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06-18-2008, 07:11 PM
  #94
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Well Sykora has his limitations, I would not call any NHL player garbage who put in 28 goals in a season.

He was 41st in the league in goals, ahead of such notables as,
Jaromir Jagr
Martin St. Louis
Kristian Huselius
Alexander Semin
Sidney Crosby

I would not call that "garbage"
Jagr who has one foot out the door, Huselius who has one good season in his career, and an inconsistent st. louis? Semin missed 19 games and Crosby missed 29. While Sykoras not garbage hes nothing special either when you consider the guy has one ppg season under his belt.

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06-18-2008, 07:35 PM
  #95
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Hey, it's not his fault Nonis sucks at building a talented forward core. He had no one to play with basically for the last couple seasons, besides the 'cycle twins'. I don't blame him for a second.
You're right that Nonis failed at putting together a great forward group, but that doesn't let Naslund off the hook. In fact, a huge part of the reason there was no strong offensive group is because of Nonis' mistaken confidence in Naslund's ability, and of course the noose his contract became.

He seemed to click perfectly fine with Morrison during the WCE years, and with Bertuzzi suspended, still played well with Cooke on that line. But in the last 2 years, they tried every combination possible to get him going. Morrison was injured a lot of last year, but when he was healthy there was no chemistry. The Cooke, Morrison, Naslund line was tried and nothing worked. He played with the Sedins, which may not be his 'game', but he's slowed down considerably and if he bought into that system could/should still have been a 35 goal guy. He was tried with guys like Burrows and Kesler out of pure desperation, and the fact that, from an offensive standpoint, they outclassed him in those instances, speaks volumes.

At some point, a 'star' player has to be able to improve the players around him. If he NEEDS a Sundin or Crosby (which history shows he does not), then he's just a leach, no different than an Anson Carter.

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06-18-2008, 07:38 PM
  #96
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Naslund is finished as a player and im hoping he is not on the Canucks team next year, and most Canuck fans seem to agree. The guy will be lucky to crack 20 goals next year on a team with a bit of offensive talent where he wont be the go to guy on the pp. Deffensivily hes horrible, and offensively he has nothing going for him anymore, his shot is gone, he is slowing down and he just isnt the player he used to be. Mark my words, he will be lucky to crack 20 next year and I doubt he will crack 50 points.

^AV is a cancer on the team, I have been saying this for a while. The players dont like him and respect him.
Most fans don't have a problem with Naslund. They have a problem with the contract he had. If Naslund was making $4 million, he wouldn't have been nearly as criticized & complained about as he was. And given that he scored 25 goals on a terrible offensive team, I don't see how he'll be lucky to get 20. But whatever.

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06-18-2008, 08:25 PM
  #97
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Would love to see Naslund play with Fisher and Alfie on the second line.....

Big Question is the money...$3 million is basically what Sens can afford and I'm sure he'll get a lot more than that.

But maybe playing with Alfie? I hope so....

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06-18-2008, 08:40 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
again, that has everything to do with personnel.

Just look at the times when Kesler has the puck... how often will he dump and chase, compared to fly up the ice and put the defenders skating back? It's because he's really the only center on the team with speed (especially last couple of years with Morrison's injuries).

When Henrik carries the puck, he just doesn't have the speed to create the same offense... that's why you'll see the Sedins usually play dump and chase, because they are better along the boards, but don't have the speed through the neutral zone.
You're severely underestimating Henrik, maybe not so much Kesler.

Are you telling me all those times Datsyuk dumps the puck in its because he's not able to carry it in himself?

Or that Joe Thornton should be dumping it in because he's too slow?

Come on.

Until AV took over the Sedins regularly brought the puck in themselves. This is a system thing, NOT personnel. AV plays a low-risk game. Teams are more prone to turnovers if they carry the puck through the neutral zone; therefore, dump it in and forecheck. If he says Pittsburgh plays the same style he's lying to save his job or flat out retarded (and the latter wouldn't be unbelievable considering his stupid penchant for putting out Ritchie and Burrows in the dying minutes when we need to tie a game).

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06-18-2008, 08:44 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by OmegaWeapon View Post
It's no secret that Naslund likes offensive style of hockey, and that he wants to go to a cup contender. Out of my head, these are the hockey places that fits him:

pittsburgh
Capitals
Detroit
Nashville
Colorado


Should be interesting to see
With their new coach, he might fit well in San Jose too.. especially if Marleau is traded as has been rumored. He would slot in on the 2nd line in Marleau's place pretty easily.

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06-18-2008, 08:45 PM
  #100
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With their new coach, he might fit well in San Jose too.. especially if Marleau is traded as has been rumored. He would slot in on the 2nd line in Marleau's place pretty easily.
hell I'll trade his rights and the 10th pick for marleau

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