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Old
02-17-2004, 11:43 AM
  #101
The Rage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
Don't have much, just this from Tychowski's article this morning:



Doesn't look good for the remainer of this road trip anyway.
Since MacT said we could afford only 7 losses, we have lost twice. We are facing Vancouver, Detroit, Colorado, in the next three games with one of the worst line ups in the NHL. It's nearing the point where we will have to win ALL our games to make the playoffs. Certainly by the trade deadline, I think those 7 losses will all be used up. Could be an interesting trade deadline for us.

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02-17-2004, 12:01 PM
  #102
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It still doesn't hurt to see the guys gut out some games...

I mean, there have been a few passengers on the bus this year, and it hasn't been until recently that some of them have stepped up and started contributing nightly.

It's too bad that some of them needed to wait until the Mike York show ended to start, but these are stumbling blocks that either make you a better player/team, or ruin your career.

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02-17-2004, 12:27 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
I never saw the game or even heard it on radio, who are C & C?

I noticed that Stoll's goal was assisted by BG and JC, and if it's them you're referring to they were probably our most exciting line when Bashai was between them.
He played with Ferguson and "insert name here" most of the night...

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02-17-2004, 12:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hyped
He played with Ferguson and "insert name here" most of the night...
Ferguson stopped being a forward after 4 shifts...

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02-17-2004, 01:34 PM
  #105
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I thought it was a very gutsy effort by the Oilers. If the correct call was made, we would have tied one of the best teams in the NHL 2-2. Did anyone predict that considering:

1) Salo was in net. He actually made some nice saves, especially considering that Detroit outshot us in the 2nd period 9-0.
2) Torres, Dvorak, York - our entire line - the BEST line of the season is out with injuries
3) meaning Ferguson had to play forward for several shifts.
4) and that AHL players like Rita and Bishai had to play against Yzerman, Datsyuk, Hull, Zetterberg, Shanahan, etc.

C'mon guys. So what if the oilers may not make the playoffs. Cheer the guys who are busting their butts out there. Moreau, Horcoff, Bishai, Laraques and Stoll are certainly fan worthy this stretch of games. Ulanov, Smith, Brewer (except for the coughup on the PP) have played pretty good out there for that past several games. Even Salo can make the odd save and keep us in a 2-1 game against DETROIT. They certainly did much better than I expected coming into the game.

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Old
02-17-2004, 02:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by neogeo69
C'mon guys. So what if the oilers may not make the playoffs. Cheer the guys who are busting their butts out there. Moreau, Horcoff, Bishai, Laraques and Stoll are certainly fan worthy this stretch of games. Ulanov, Smith, Brewer (except for the coughup on the PP) have played pretty good out there for that past several games. Even Salo can make the odd save and keep us in a 2-1 game against DETROIT. They certainly did much better than I expected coming into the game.
To be honest, I'm not mad at the players anymore...hell I'm pretty much ambivalent towards MacT and his staff too - look at the mess they have to work with right now.

The more I think about it, the more my disappointment and disillusionment gets directed towards the Oilers GM and the ownership group that tells him what to do. For Lowe, while I think he's still a decent GM for this team his record has been spotty the last two years. He's had some success stories, but he's also had some big failures too...and for the first time in his tenure, he's starting to hear the criticism. It's been a year to forget, and he might be fortunate that he's in the first year of his renewed contract instead of the last year.

I think there's a LOT of season ticket holders who are going to take a long, hard look at the wisdom of their purchase this upcoming summer. 2 out of 3 years without playoff hockey doesn't help to enhance the product.

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02-17-2004, 02:18 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
To be honest, I'm not mad at the players anymore...hell I'm pretty much ambivalent towards MacT and his staff too - look at the mess they have to work with right now.

The more I think about it, the more my disappointment and disillusionment gets directed towards the Oilers GM and the ownership group that tells him what to do. For Lowe, while I think he's still a decent GM for this team his record has been spotty the last two years. He's had some success stories, but he's also had some big failures too...and for the first time in his tenure, he's starting to hear the criticism. It's been a year to forget, and he might be fortunate that he's in the first year of his renewed contract instead of the last year.

I think there's a LOT of season ticket holders who are going to take a long, hard look at the wisdom of their purchase this upcoming summer. 2 out of 3 years without playoff hockey doesn't help to enhance the product.
Great post Digger. I was thinking the same thing last night. I like Lowe. I think he's done really well in the last few years. I was happy with the deadline deals he made last year and I was happy with how he dealt with the Comrie issue.

I really think that Lowe right now really doesn't know what to do with his struggling hockey team. Disregarding injuries, when the team was struggling, it was obvious a change was needed and that wasn't done. Sure, he signed Ulanov but Uli was unemployed at the time, so that really can't be considered a coup for Lowe. Then Oates. I was happy at the time, but I'll be weary next time Lowe takes a chance on a 41 year old player.

It's almost like he's out of his league at the moment. I may be wrong, but we hear him say that the goal is to make the playoffs yet the team continues to struggle.


Last edited by Lowetide: 02-17-2004 at 08:15 PM.
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Old
02-18-2004, 07:48 AM
  #108
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I'd say that Lowe has tried the free agency market to try and sign that player that could make the change to push the team in the right direction. Oates and Ulanov have helped in their own little way but haven't really sparked the return to the right direction. As hard as it is to say its plainly obvious this team lacks a centre more than anything else, we miss Comrie in the lineup since if he was here Smyth would never have had to go to centre himself, thats the first line of Smyth-Comrie-Hemsky. Throw in the second line of Torres-York-Dvorak and then lets say Reasoner didnt go down thats the RPM line. That is a very solid top 9 of players for this franchise. Sadly Comrie has not been replaced and the rest of the team has really slacked and not covered the gap he left (outside of the York and Reasoner lines) and thats not helped.

I think its just best to consider this season has been a season thats just been a complete mess since day zero and a mess that the team has yet to recover from, it would be a great accomplishment in itself if the team makes the playoffs as sad as it is to say, this year our stars didn't shine even though there were some sweet unexpected gifts (torres, york, stoll, dvorak etc)

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Old
02-18-2004, 04:59 PM
  #109
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Digger, my friend

Lowe was hired because he's won Cups and because he loves Alberta. I love beer and I've drank a lot of it but that doesn't mean Molson would hire me to promote it

Simpson was hired because he's won Cups and he loves Alberta. Moores is still around becasue he's from Alberta. MacT gets that redicolus extenstion because he loves it and Lowe loves him.

Lowe was hired to keep ***** in the seats and clients money coming in and he's done that.,

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02-18-2004, 05:22 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
Lowe was hired because he's won Cups and because he loves Alberta. I love beer and I've drank a lot of it but that doesn't mean Molson would hire me to promote it

Simpson was hired because he's won Cups and he loves Alberta. Moores is still around becasue he's from Alberta. MacT gets that redicolus extenstion because he loves it and Lowe loves him.

Lowe was hired to keep ***** in the seats and clients money coming in and he's done that.,
Do you really beleive all this, or are you just pissed because you feel you should have been hired instead for one or more of these jobs?

Lowe is incredibly smart, as well as dedicated to winning. That is why he is a general manager, otherwise Paul Coffey or Grant Fuhr or Steve Smith or Jarri Kurri would be a general manager.

Simpson was one of the best power play guys during his time in the league and spent a hell of a lot of time analyzing a lot of teams in the league both ES and on the PP. Off the top of your head can you name a better person to be a power play coach than Simpson (who isn't under contract to another team)?

You'd have to be an idiot not to know that Moores is one of the smartest X's and O's guy in the hockey world.

And Mac-T got a big extension after leading the team to their best regular seasons in over a decade despite continually losing top players.

Lowe was hired to keep the team sustainable until hopefully a new CBA is worked out that can possibly benefit the Oilers, and then to build a contender. Which he is doing.

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Old
02-18-2004, 05:28 PM
  #111
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Where are g2k and LD when ya need em, this is gettin rather brutal. Sure we're building a contender....for the top draft pick.......sure we've got smart coaches......smart Bantam coaches.......Sure Lowe and MacTavish weren't hired because of their Oilers connections....and I'm the King of Mexico............

Matts, you've been posting good stuff since ya got here, keep it up.

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02-18-2004, 05:31 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Where are g2k and LD when ya need em, this is gettin rather brutal. Sure we're building a contender....for the top draft pick.......sure we've got smart coaches......smart Bantam coaches.......Sure Lowe and MacTavish weren't hired because of their Oilers connections....and I'm the King of Mexico............

Matts, you've been posting good stuff since ya got here, keep it up.
I never said their connections weren't one of the reasons they were hired, but it sure wasn't the only reason.

Unless of course you are saying the whole ownership group is full of idiots, in which case I need to ask:

Whose a bigger idiot them, or you for giving your money to them?

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02-18-2004, 05:39 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I never said their connections weren't one of the reasons they were hired, but it sure wasn't the only reason.

Unless of course you are saying the whole ownership group is full of idiots, in which case I need to ask:

Whose a bigger idiot them, or you for giving your money to them?
Many of them probably don't understand alot about the hockey side of the business, and don't get me started on LaForge....no appreciation for season ticket holders.

Without contributing to the team, frankly, a person doesn't have much backing for demanding things from management, frankly as a season ticket holder I think I do, and the fact that Lowe is not only not icing the best team he could, but also employing an inferior coaching staff, and not developing the future either, I don't believe I will purchase season tickets for next season.

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02-18-2004, 05:41 PM
  #114
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Lowe is incredibily intelligent?

based on what? Have you seen the results of his IQ tests? I know that Moores was vaunted for his work with the Rags but that's awhile ago now isn't it? How aboutchange for the sake of it.

Simpson was great at taking crosschecks to the back and tipping in goals and slamming home rebounds and I loved him for it. Also a guy who never coached organized hockey before he went behind the Oilers bench. Go find a guy running great PP;'s in the minors on at a university or something and give him a chance. Go find a jounior coach who hasn't been offered a head NHL gig andoffer him an assitant job as a way of making his name. Maybe he won't love Alberta enough though.

No need to give MacT three years. He did nothing special to deserve such security. Hasn't looked a lot better than Lowe did when he coached for the '00 season.A deal of that lenght only gives Lowe an excuse not to can him, ie the old we only have 35 mill so we can'twasteit on guys not actually working for us.

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02-18-2004, 05:45 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Many of them probably don't understand alot about the hockey side of the business, and don't get me started on LaForge....no appreciation for season ticket holders.

Without contributing to the team, frankly, a person doesn't have much backing for demanding things from management, frankly as a season ticket holder I think I do, and the fact that Lowe is not only not icing the best team he could, but also employing an inferior coaching staff, and not developing the future either, I don't believe I will purchase season tickets for next season.
Wow... more people that LMHF knows infinitely more than... I'm shocked!

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02-18-2004, 05:50 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
based on what? Have you seen the results of his IQ tests?
How about the fact that he is well spoken, has surrounded himself with very smart hockey people that have allowed him to make trades that many have questioned wrongly?

Quote:
I know that Moores was vaunted for his work with the Rags but that's awhile ago now isn't it? How aboutchange for the sake of it.
Change for the sake of it? And that accomplishes what? Did you ever stop and think that maybe Lowe has this coaching staff in place not necessarily for this team but for the team in 3-4 years?

Quote:
Simpson was great at taking crosschecks to the back and tipping in goals and slamming home rebounds and I loved him for it. Also a guy who never coached organized hockey before he went behind the Oilers bench. Go find a guy running great PP;'s in the minors on at a university or something and give him a chance. Go find a jounior coach who hasn't been offered a head NHL gig andoffer him an assitant job as a way of making his name. Maybe he won't love Alberta enough though.
You mean a guy who might never have played in an NHL game and knows what it is like? At least Simpson has not only played, but demonstrated the ability to breakdown and disect a game at the NHL level.

Quote:
No need to give MacT three years. He did nothing special to deserve such security. Hasn't looked a lot better than Lowe did when he coached for the '00 season.A deal of that lenght only gives Lowe an excuse not to can him, ie the old we only have 35 mill so we can'twasteit on guys not actually working for us.
Nothing special? Taking one of the youngest teams and a bottom 5 payroll to back to back to back 90+ point seasons is nothing special.

I'll take your word on that.

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02-18-2004, 05:57 PM
  #117
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Well spoken

I don't think he's Ryan Smyth-esque dumb but Lowe isn't exactly eloquent or loquaios either.

Mike Babcock didn't play in the NHL and I heard there are some guys coaching university hockey and junior hockey who might have played some pro hockey if prior experience is one of your pre-requsities.

BTW, Hitchcock was a big fatso who didn't get close to pro hockey and I think he might be able to teach. And you like Moores so much but he didn't score too many PP goals in the NHL. Find an argument and stick with it or I'll just keep ripping these changeups into the gaps for run scoring doubles

This 3-4 years excuse is an excuse in lieu of success.

Bottom five payroll? I think it's been awhile since the Oilers were that low and just last season TB had 29 and Minny had 19 and one made to the top eight and the other to the final four.

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Old
02-18-2004, 06:15 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Wow... more people that LMHF knows infinitely more than... I'm shocked!
And I'm shocked you made a statement directly at me and once again confirmed that you are the AKHJ, instead of actually responding to my line of questioning.

Nice to know you are always gonna be around to tell me how little I know about hockey, I would never have gotten that without you. I mean, Miro, Whitney, the Comrie thing, MacTavish, Horcoff, Cross, Dvorak, Isbister, Salo, none of that means anything does it? Do I need to start a column?

Anyway, this was once a game thread, what happened to that?

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02-18-2004, 06:29 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matts
I don't think he's Ryan Smyth-esque dumb but Lowe isn't exactly eloquent or loquaios either.
Ryan Smyth-esque dumb? Wow... Well you should see this idiot writer on Oilfans named Dennis who's ability to put thought into word's is only accomplished when his feeble mind can come up with an insult. But I guess not everyone is Aristotle, and I guess we will find out from Guy when he does his interview how intelligent Lowe may or may not be.

Quote:
Mike Babcock didn't play in the NHL and I heard there are some guys coaching university hockey and junior hockey who might have played some pro hockey if prior experience is one of your pre-requsities.

BTW, Hitchcock was a big fatso who didn't get close to pro hockey and I think he might be able to teach. And you like Moores so much but he didn't score too many PP goals in the NHL. Find an argument and stick with it or I'll just keep ripping these changeups into the gaps for run scoring doubles
Ripping these change ups into doubles? At least I answer all your challenges, instead of picking solely on one... I never said anything along the lines of if you never played you can't coach. I specifically referred to being a power play specialist coach, and that when you have two guys who sound like they know what they are talking about, I'd go for the one with NHL experience. It's not like the hired some ex-nhler who had no clue what was going on. Simpson during his time at sportsnet was actually incredibly good at breaking down offensive schemes.

Quote:
This 3-4 years excuse is an excuse in lieu of success.
You can call it an excuse, I just call it a reason not to get whiney and pissy about everything... but it's a hell of a lot easier to rip everything to shreds than it is to have a little faith, so whatever floats your boat.

Quote:
Bottom five payroll? I think it's been awhile since the Oilers were that low and just last season TB had 29 and Minny had 19 and one made to the top eight and the other to the final four.
Atlanta, Columbus, Florida, Pittsburgh, Nashville and Minnesota were the only teams to have a lower payroll in any of the last 3 years.

And Last year, Tampa Bay's payroll was higher than the Oilers.

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02-18-2004, 06:31 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
And I'm shocked you made a statement directly at me and once again confirmed that you are the AKHJ, instead of actually responding to my line of questioning.

Nice to know you are always gonna be around to tell me how little I know about hockey, I would never have gotten that without you. I mean, Miro, Whitney, the Comrie thing, MacTavish, Horcoff, Cross, Dvorak, Isbister, Salo, none of that means anything does it? Do I need to start a column?

Anyway, this was once a game thread, what happened to that?
Well you've already said you know more about coaching that Mactavish does, and now you know more about the hockey side of the business than any of the 37 owners in the EIG...

Did I sum that up correctly?

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02-18-2004, 06:49 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by dawgbone
Well you've already said you know more about coaching that Mactavish does, and now you know more about the hockey side of the business than any of the 37 owners in the EIG...

Did I sum that up correctly?
I really don't get how you fail to understand the way I get my points across, and why you feel the need to respond like this to me. This is bordering on personal, and I don't wish to take it any further. You're really not taking into account reason and logic as to why i say what I do, you should really think about why I'd say alot of these things, you think it's just for kicks? And you've pointed out before that you think I don't put any research into anything I do, so you obviously believe the reason I do it is just because I feel like it and want a reaction, not because I might actually know something. You really think I'd waste my time on here like that? Again, RATIONALITY.

You didn't respond at all to my list either, how'd I see that coming..... Can't beat someone when they've been proven right.

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02-18-2004, 07:02 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
I really don't get how you fail to understand the way I get my points across, and why you feel the need to respond like this to me. This is bordering on personal, and I don't wish to take it any further. You're really not taking into account reason and logic as to why i say what I do, you should really think about why I'd say alot of these things, you think it's just for kicks? And you've pointed out before that you think I don't put any research into anything I do, so you obviously believe the reason I do it is just because I feel like it and want a reaction, not because I might actually know something. You really think I'd waste my time on here like that? Again, RATIONALITY.
are you gonna need a tissue?

What you say and do defies logic and reason, which is why I don't apply it to what you say.

Quote:
You didn't respond at all to my list either, how'd I see that coming..... Can't beat someone when they've been proven right.
List... what list?

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02-18-2004, 07:09 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
are you gonna need a tissue?

What you say and do defies logic and reason, which is why I don't apply it to what you say.



List... what list?
So much for rising above things, guess I shouldn't have given you that much credit.

My list beginning with Miro, Whitney, etc, etc.

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02-18-2004, 07:11 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
So much for rising above things, guess I shouldn't have given you that much credit.

My list beginning with Miro, Whitney, etc, etc.
What do Miro and Whitney have to do with Kevin Lowe?

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02-18-2004, 07:13 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
What do Miro and Whitney have to do with Kevin Lowe?
Wasn't in response to Lowe, was in response to hockey knowledge. Go look at the list, if you can't figure out what I'm saying, I'm not gonna slow down to explain it, ya should've actually read the post and responded accordingly.

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