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Old
02-17-2004, 02:33 PM
  #76
Youreallygotme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandwagoner
Don't forget the high stick/slash Forsberg took to the face. I have watched Moore's hit over and over again, and I am sorry, I just don't see the elbow everyone is complaining about. All I see is nasland falling with his head down and Moore leaning his hip into him. I don't see Moore raising his elbow or doing anything like that. I think it's a total overreaction by the Canucks, but hey maybe this is exactly what they need to get their heads out of their arses and actually start putting in a little effort.
'
if forsberg wants to go on his knees, its not a high stick.

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02-17-2004, 02:41 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucks&flames
if forsberg wants to go on his knees, its not a high stick.
So call it a slash to the face then. That play looks a lot more insidious than the Moore hit. Imagine if Forsberg didn't have a visor on. Yes, I am sure you have imagined that.

I would never wish an injury on Naslund, I am sorry it happened to him.

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Old
02-17-2004, 02:54 PM
  #78
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Just heard that Nazzy will be out 2-3 weeks with a concusion. If the instigator rule wasn't in affect Moore's butt would of been kicked. May tried to avenge, but Moore isn't enough of a man to stand up for his actions, so May sat in the box for 2 minutes. Say what you want that it was a clean hit, if it was Sakic or Forsberg getting nailed you guys would be pissed off. If the game wasn't so close then May or Brookbank would of jumped him and done the job.

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Old
02-17-2004, 03:23 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck19
Just heard that Nazzy will be out 2-3 weeks with a concusion. If the instigator rule wasn't in affect Moore's butt would of been kicked. May tried to avenge, but Moore isn't enough of a man to stand up for his actions, so May sat in the box for 2 minutes. Say what you want that it was a clean hit, if it was Sakic or Forsberg getting nailed you guys would be pissed off. If the game wasn't so close then May or Brookbank would of jumped him and done the job.
I think everyone here realizes that the Canucks are upset about the hit, and I, for one, am not happy that Naslund got hurt. Not all of us are so blindly loyal to our teams that we wish injury on people, or beatdowns as retribution. I can empathize with Vancouver's anger while still believing that Moore was not trying to take Naslund's head off. I'm versatile like that.

There was no penalty called at the time, and the league has reviewed it and deemed it a clean hit, http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=72526 , so now the only issue is whether the Canucks will be out for blood next time the teams play. That's up to them. Maybe we can see some more injuries, because that's good for the league!

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02-17-2004, 03:35 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck19
Just heard that Nazzy will be out 2-3 weeks with a concusion. If the instigator rule wasn't in affect Moore's butt would of been kicked. May tried to avenge, but Moore isn't enough of a man to stand up for his actions, so May sat in the box for 2 minutes. Say what you want that it was a clean hit, if it was Sakic or Forsberg getting nailed you guys would be pissed off. If the game wasn't so close then May or Brookbank would of jumped him and done the job.
Forsberg gets mauled and hit when he's nowhere near the puck all the time, every game, year after year. Granato isn't whining like a little girl about it, why is Crawford whining about Naslund getting a small sample of the same?

In fact, Crawford sends his agitators and checkers, like Ruutu and Cooke, out against Forsberg and other Avs star players all the time. Nobody is whining about that. It's part of the game.

I don't want to see Naslund get hurt, or Forsberg, or Sakic, or Ohlund, or any of the stars but it's part of the game. When Crawford stops using Ruutu and Cooke against other team's top lines then he might have a right to complain. Until then, he's simply whining like a little girl.

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02-17-2004, 04:23 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucks&flames
why would you complain about that? cooke was called for it, four minutes in the box. It was accidental.
Exactly. I believe that Moore's actions was accidental as well. Whether it was a penalty is also in question. Worst case scenario is you should question the refs.

How folks see it tends to be based on what team you want to win. I think you will agree with that much?

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Old
02-17-2004, 05:59 PM
  #82
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Its ironic that the Nuck fans are now calling for the instigator rule to be taken out, when many of their players careers would be over if the rule was taken out.

Hypocrites. You praise Ruutu for his diving, then start threads when a player dives against you. You claim Moore's hit was dirty, but then when the exact same thing is performed by your team on others (Keane on Hamhuis, May on Tkachuk) it was a perfectly legal check. I'm sick of reading this garbage. Whats perfect, is the label the Nuck fans have been dishing out to the Preds is that "our coach whines post game". Well congrats Nuck fans, yours does the exact same thing. I'm making a mental catalogue of every asinine, homerish statement that is made.......and when an incident like this comes up.......my sympathies go out to the players and a few of the Nuck fans (Mizral, maybe griffen.....) but for the majority......its poetic justice.

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02-17-2004, 06:11 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
Apparently I missed the conversation you're speaking of, got a link, or at the very least a detailed synopsis? :p
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=52126 Fresh from Friday night's action; thread got shut down before it got fun though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane
Oh, and what's your call on the hit. Your opinion is always based off of observation of actual events (rather than the banter of others driven by pure passion). I'm curious as to hear what side of the sand you sit on.
Had to work Monday night and I taped three other games instead (Kings-Isles, Blues-Yotes, and Preds-Jackets). I've only gotten through the first game and the 1st period of the Blues so far. Can't say anything about the hit because I didn't watch or tape the game. I will say that Moore is a decidedly clean hitter in every game I've seen; so, I'd give him benefit of the doubt personally. But, I reserve judgment until I see it for myself.

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02-17-2004, 06:15 PM
  #84
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The Hit

As you might have guessed, there's a thread about this over on the HF Vancouver page.

A few of us have posted comments there. However, I felt compelled to wade-in on Denver Post columnist Mark Kisla's "analysis" of this situation. I frankly think the man's always been a cut below a whale turd at the bottom of the ocean... and I care not whose toes this steps on.

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Old
02-17-2004, 06:53 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Careful Ensane. You go around not naming those certain Canucks fans and next thing you know they group around you like a bunch of toddlers that all want the same toy. After a brief experience of the playground mentality, they send in the pseudo-intellectual with his thesaurus to assault your avatar. It's quite daunting I must say.
Funny.

OTOH, that ox of yours needs to either ***** or get off the pot. :p

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02-17-2004, 07:04 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Had to work Monday night and I taped three other games instead (Kings-Isles, Blues-Yotes, and Preds-Jackets). I've only gotten through the first game and the 1st period of the Blues so far. Can't say anything about the hit because I didn't watch or tape the game. I will say that Moore is a decidedly clean hitter in every game I've seen; so, I'd give him benefit of the doubt personally. But, I reserve judgment until I see it for myself.
I'm sure you'll find a video clip of it somewhere (if you haven't already)--if not, the Oiler fans have produced a few stills showing the truth of hte incident.

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...0&page=1&pp=15

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Old
02-17-2004, 07:35 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laperriere22
Careful Ensane. You go around not naming those certain Canucks fans and next thing you know they group around you like a bunch of toddlers that all want the same toy. After a brief experience of the playground mentality, they send in the pseudo-intellectual with his thesaurus to assault your avatar. It's quite daunting I must say.
I guess I'm the pseudo-intellectual with his thesaurus.

Oh well... I've been called a lot worse by a lot smarter people...

With regards to the Naslund hit and the reaction... I personally think that it's been blown way out of proportion... It was a pretty chippy game where emotions were running high, and no one really knows Moore's intent but Moore (the replays are pretty inconclusive IMO)... It's not like it was Marchment or Matt Johnson throwing the hit (past history of being dirty)... I don't know much about Moore, but I can't see him (not being well known as a dirty player) purposely trying to cheapshot Naslund out of the game... I give him the benefit of the doubt that he was trying to finish his check... If it was Tootoo, it would be a lot easier for me to believe that it was a case of a young guy trying to make a name for himself.

As a Nucks fan, it was scary seeing Naslund's head hit the ice (which IMO probably did a lot more damage than the elbow/shoulder), and I really don't think that Moore intended that to happen - he's not that good

As a silver lining, I'm actually looking forward to see how Bertuzzi responds with the added responsibility. Hopefully it will wake him up a bit.

I expect the Canucks to play Colorodo tough next game (fights, finishing checks, face rubs, after whistle scrums, etc.)- not because it was a 'cheapshot', but to send the message that they won't take Naslund getting hit very lightly... a respect thing. However even more important than a tough game, the 2 points are what matters most of all...

I'd be very disappointed if the Nucks did something cheap and purposely tried to injure an Avs player. I don't think it will come to that...

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Old
02-17-2004, 07:45 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Mind at a Time
I'd be very disappointed if the Nucks did something cheap and purposely tried to injure an Avs player. I don't think it will come to that...
The 'Nucks will injure the Avs on the scoreboard... Naslund will get a hatty.

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Old
02-18-2004, 12:04 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nucks&flames
'
if forsberg wants to go on his knees, its not a high stick.
That makes sense. If he's on his knees, and a guy takes a baseball swing at a puck in mid air and misses, but hits Forsberg in the face, it's not a high stick? That's called careless use of your stick, it's not a follow through, and it deserves a penalty.

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Old
02-18-2004, 12:31 AM
  #90
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I somewhat understand Canucks fans being upset with the Moore hit, in the heat of the moment, because I might be upset too if it was Forsberg, but after you calm down you should be able to see it wasn't even an elbow at all. I'm actually kinda surprised there hasn't been more complaining about the hit. I thought it was gonna be a blood bath when I clicked on to this thread, but it hasn't really, and I give most of the Vancouver fans here cudos for trying to be as objective as they can, after their captain got injured.

As for the hit. I don't even see it as an elbow, because Moore's arm was tucked to his side. Naslund had the puck slip off his stick, and was going after it and leaned foward, and put himself in a dangerous situation. It had been a physical game, mostly by Vancouver, and Moore went for a hit, and it was unlucky that Nasulnd was in the position he was, when he got hit. If Naslund is leaning down, and Moore hits him, but since Naslund is so low he hits Moore's fist, its not a punch to the head. Moore's elbow might have hit Naslund, but he didn't stick it out, it was just because Markus was leaning over to poke at the puck.

The worst part of it is Marc Crawford and Brian Burke whining like crazy, and calling it a, "marginal player going after a superstar with a headhunting hit." That's just ridiculous, and is basically slander, since it is a false statement that is intended to earn Moore a suspension. It was also funny watching the broadcast on Sportsnet, where they showed the hit about ten times, and every angle showed it as a clean hit, but the homer broadcasters kept calling it an elbow every time. It's unfortunate of course that Naslund got injured, but that's hockey. It's a phyiscal game, and injuries happen. It wasn't a dirty hit by any means, and if we keep trying to take the hiting out of hockey, than it's going to be an awful timid sport that not many people are gonna watch.

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Old
02-18-2004, 07:17 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Its ironic that the Nuck fans are now calling for the instigator rule to be taken out, when many of their players careers would be over if the rule was taken out.

Hypocrites. You praise Ruutu for his diving, then start threads when a player dives against you. You claim Moore's hit was dirty, but then when the exact same thing is performed by your team on others (Keane on Hamhuis, May on Tkachuk) it was a perfectly legal check. I'm sick of reading this garbage. Whats perfect, is the label the Nuck fans have been dishing out to the Preds is that "our coach whines post game". Well congrats Nuck fans, yours does the exact same thing. I'm making a mental catalogue of every asinine, homerish statement that is made.......and when an incident like this comes up.......my sympathies go out to the players and a few of the Nuck fans (Mizral, maybe griffen.....) but for the majority......its poetic justice.
I usually enjoy reading your opinions, and I find they're pretty well reasoned even if I don't agree with your conclusions. But I have to admit, this post is pretty lame. You seem to have cherry picked all the comments about this hit, and have even saved up some from other topics, and have sort of forced them together to say what exactly? That all but two Canucks fans have any credibility to you? Even the most cursory read on the Canucks board would show you that a fairly even number of Nucks fans didn't think the hit was illegal, but that it's a drag when a teams captain get's concussed. If you're so lacking in common sense that you can't understand why fans of team might not be all that sensible about losing their captain to a shoulder check to the head... at around chest level, then really you need to give your head a shake.

Also, you're pissing and moaning about Crawford getting riled up. Well, what exactly would you like to have seen? Any chance that he's using this to motivate his team as well? I mean really. There are coaches all over this league the would have done exactly the same thing, and their GM's would have done the same as Burke. Is it a mystery to anyone at all that watches hockey that Crawford screams himself hoarse almost every game? I honestly don't think so. Berry Trotz (sp?), well sorry there buddy, but he does ***** and complain after almost every game... so does Quinn... one of many. No need to take it personally, unless you happen to be Berry.

How many people exactly praised Ruutu for his diving? Maybe several at most, and I'm sure some of that was posted tongue in cheek. The rest all reacted negitively. That's the reality... and you can go back and count the posts if you like.

Painting all but a couple of Canucks fans with the same brush just makes you look like a simpleton, which I don't believe you are. Why bother getting offended because there are people who don't share your impartial view of the hockey world? Saving up all the stupid comments written by fans so you can later throw it in their faces, or everyones faces, as you don't seem to see any difference between posters, strikes me as a really dumb way to approach these boards.

Best of luck.

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Old
02-18-2004, 10:55 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoserthehorrible
Forsberg gets mauled and hit when he's nowhere near the puck all the time, every game, year after year. Granato isn't whining like a little girl about it, why is Crawford whining about Naslund getting a small sample of the same?

In fact, Crawford sends his agitators and checkers, like Ruutu and Cooke, out against Forsberg and other Avs star players all the time. Nobody is whining about that. It's part of the game.

I don't want to see Naslund get hurt, or Forsberg, or Sakic, or Ohlund, or any of the stars but it's part of the game. When Crawford stops using Ruutu and Cooke against other team's top lines then he might have a right to complain. Until then, he's simply whining like a little girl.
Forsberg never got hit like Nazzy did, the Canucks have too much class to go after Forsberg or Sakic, or do they? You can whine all you want about Crawford, he is sending a message, March 3rd Moore's butt will be kicked. Is he a man and stand up, or is he a wimp and cower?

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Old
02-18-2004, 10:59 AM
  #93
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From DenverPost:

The Canucks-Avalanche rivalry has heated up since Crawford, who coached Colorado to the Stanley Cup in 1996, stepped behind the Vancouver bench in 1998. In the milieu of the NHL, in which views tend to swing 180 degrees depending on the identities of "hitters" and the "hittees," the Canucks in the past have argued that hits knocking Avalanche players out of the lineup weren't deserving of penalties or fines, while the Avalanche has taken the opposite point of view.

Cases in point: The Canucks' Matt Cooke knocked Colorado's Chris Drury out of the lineup for four weeks with a knee-on-knee hit in November 2000. Vancouver winger Todd Bertuzzi, who was graphic in his denunciation of Moore after Monday's game, delivered a hit that left Colorado's Adam Deadmarsh with a sprained knee in January 2001, and Deadmarsh missed two weeks. Earlier, during the 1999-2000 season, Bertuzzi hit Forsberg from behind, knocking Forsberg out for five games with a concussion.

We lost player trough injury as well, and we survived the storm. Time for your players to STEP UP while Naslund gone.

Then again, I hope they wil choke. We want the division title, ya know.

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Old
02-18-2004, 11:40 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck19
Forsberg never got hit like Nazzy did, the Canucks have too much class to go after Forsberg or Sakic, or do they? You can whine all you want about Crawford, he is sending a message, March 3rd Moore's butt will be kicked. Is he a man and stand up, or is he a wimp and cower?
The Canucks go after everybody hard, especially our best player Forsberg, and usually play chippy over all. That's not really the Avs modus operandi. Moore is a clean player who injured the Canucks best player on a hit where the unfortunate result was an injury. The only reason this is being talked about is because of the position Naslund was in, and to talk about headhunting is presuming a lot. The play happened really quickly, and the only intent you can see is that Moore went to hit him.

After reading two days worth of crap, it seems to me that the Canucks can dish it out but can't take it, and that a good number of their fans are as enlightened as Pierre McGuire. If the Canucks want to make a mission out of going after someone for a play like that, that's their prerogative. I hope they do something really stupid and on purpose so we can all see their true colors. If they go out with the intent to injure Moore and then do it, that's really something to be proud of.

I am not ragging on all Nucks fans on these boards, just the many who refuse to look at the play even remotely objectively, and who keep calling for blood. If you want revenge on a team, you beat them. If you start worrying about one player and a little vigilante vengeance, then you are letting that become bigger than the game.

I would also love to hear how Canucks fans would react if Naslund were mugged up and down the ice like Forsberg is when he plays against them. Or if Hinote or someone took a whack at Nazzy's face with his stick. And nobody cares about the much more malicious intent of the hit that May put on Morris earlier in the game. There was a case of someone trying to knock someone's block off. If Morris had leaned back in a similar fashion to what Naslund did, May would have decapitated him.

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02-18-2004, 12:34 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upchuck19
Forsberg never got hit like Nazzy did, the Canucks have too much class to go after Forsberg or Sakic, or do they? You can whine all you want about Crawford, he is sending a message, March 3rd Moore's butt will be kicked. Is he a man and stand up, or is he a wimp and cower?
Forsberg gets hammered most every game whether he's near the puck or not. If you can't see that then take the rose colored glasses off and take a look at the real world of NHL hockey.

Crawfords been a whining coach since he came into the NHL. The only message he's sending is that his team can't handle physical hockey and they have to look to the league and the refs to cover their arses.

Nobody on the Avs team is worried about the Canuck's stepping up their physical play. If they need to be motivated by this nonsense to play physical hokcey at this point in the season when they're in 2nd place and the season is entering its home stretch then they've got serious character problems to worry about.

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Old
02-18-2004, 03:19 PM
  #96
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I was about to go to sleep last night when I saw the Rocky Mountain Sports report. It had a little 2-second section about Ruutu b***ing, whining and crying about the hit on Naslund. I was immediately disgusted. For years we've been at the other end of the scale, having our scores practically being molested at will (Guys like Pronger, Norstrom, and maltby like to just smack off all the time and put pot-shots on our guys). I was even more disgusted with the way Ruutu acted, like he never did anything wrong to anybody. Like he didn't intentionally attempt to injure Stephane Yelle a couple of seasons ago. And don't get me started on bertuzzi. He deliberately knocked out Forsberg with a concussion 3-4 years ago! At least we discarded our somewhat dirty and cheap players like Nieminen and Lemieux after a while......

Anyway, it really infuriated me to see them act like that. B*****es.

As far as the hit goes, it was a totally clean shot. I won't beleive anyone who says Moore stuck out his elbow intentionally......when I saw the replay several times and saw him actually WITHDRAW his left foot just before putting the shot on, so as NOT to injure Naslund. And the dead bottom truth of the matter is......Naslund would probably be okay if he didn't shy away from the hit in the first place. All he had to do was bend his knees and lean into Moore to absorb the impact of the check, but he was too scared and backed off him instead. And by backing off he exposed his head. I think it's unfortunate for him because he has never done anything dirty to anybody (If I had my way, bertuzzi or that punk ruutu would be on IR instead). It's sad to see a guy that talented get hurt like that, but the playoffs are right around the corner......and scorers are fair game. Crawford has got another thing coming this season if he thinks he can sent somebody out on a "peace-keeping" mission and not get confronted by Moore, McAllister, or McCormick. What's underrated about the Avalanche this year, is that they haven't been as tough and physically imposing as this since their first Cup win in '96.

....And just when I thought the dirty stuff with Vancouver was over and done with.

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02-18-2004, 04:10 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalia
Funny.

OTOH, that ox of yours needs to either ***** or get off the pot. :p
It's rather inappropriate to make fun of an animated character's constipation issues.

Typical Nucks fan.

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02-18-2004, 04:30 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarOutCrops
After reading two days worth of crap, it seems to me that the Canucks can dish it out but can't take it, and that a good number of their fans are as enlightened as Pierre McGuire. I am not ragging on all Nucks fans on these boards, just the many who refuse to look at the play even remotely objectively, and who keep calling for blood.
I think most of the Nucks fans at HF tend to emulate their GM in how they approach the sport. Love to give, but whine when they have to take. There are good Nucks posters like Waveburner and colonel_korn out there, but they, like most quality posters, are drowned out by the rabble or even worse, they don't post outside of their board that often. The thing that scares me is that Biggest Canucks Fan seems to have become one of the more rational posters around here, which is quite different from what I read from just one year ago.



I've since seen the hit and I don't think much of it. Moore had him lined up and Naslund tried to avoid it. Arm was tucked in the whole time. When we see Moore lunge towards Naslund, it's not to hit his head; it's just to finish the check he had lined up. Naslund tried to avoid the hit and that causes injuries more times than not. Bad break for Naslund, but I saw nothing on that hit to change my opinion of Moore. He's a hard working player that hits clean and hard. The 9 page thread on the NHL board is further proof of how a homer bias can cloud one's mind and why Nucks fans, in general, aren't all that well-liked.

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02-18-2004, 05:36 PM
  #99
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This all reminds me of the Draper thing. What really miffs me about it the most isn't the whining from the fans, who we've come to expect that from. About everything from "you guys are like the Rangers" to "you guys are bullies" I mean what havent' we heard from the Avs wannabe's? But Burke, Crawford and Bertuzzi to a lesser extent need to just ****. An NHL GM calling a player marginal whether true or not, in public, just stinks of a lack of professionalism. But then again Burke hasn't exactly been the spokesman for professionalism since he arrived in Vancouver, one cannot be too surprised by yet another outburst from his colon. Crawford I'm somewhat used to running his mouth, that was the biggest black eye of his career here. His insistance upon opening his mouth when we were losing to the Wings, made me cringe. Bertuzzi, hey kettle, I'm pot, you're black. Nuff said. Fact is, I can't help but wonder if big bert would do anything if it was Worrell instead. Same horsemanure as the now semi defunct McCarty.

The Avalanche's lack of an official response to Burke's blathering is one thing that disappoints me. They should have came out and stuck up for their guy. The other thing that is going to piss me off is that Naslund will never get even for himself. It'll be some cementhead like Waiver Wade Brookbank that will send the message. Then we'll have to see if the Avs respond by sticking up for their guy. Something that Deadmarsh tried to do somewhat for Claude. But the team didn't do enough IMO. I thought they were just about as gutless in that Draper situation as he was said to be.

I'm hoping that having Granato and Tocchet on the bench might have some effect on the sack growth of the Avalanche this time around. Not gonna argue whether it was legal or not. Officials said it was, League said it was, so a few homers on a frickin internet messageboard said it wasn't, big deal. No one wants to see Naslund hurt period.

Hopefully it will serve to bring this team together.

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02-18-2004, 05:51 PM
  #100
Ensane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avfan#21
The Avalanche's lack of an official response to Burke's blathering is one thing that disappoints me. They should have came out and stuck up for their guy.
I'd prefer that rather than issue a statement, we should just have Tocchet head up to Vancouver to tune up Brian Burke, busting his jaw in the process. From then on in Burke can't really say much (which is like a holiday for everyone who thinks with their brain) because his mouth will be wired shut.

Ah, to dream...

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