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Old
06-21-2008, 05:27 PM
  #26
ratmanfu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
However, at the end of the day, they're the ones that are going to have to step up. That's why they (Horton & Weiss) have the contracts that they do.

-ghoste
At least that's the gamble JM has banked on since signing them long term last season.

Without a legitimate veteran scoring threat, this next season will make or break that gamble IMO.

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06-21-2008, 05:27 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
I know Matthias played a whopping four games on this team, also know that he scored 2 goals in one game also know that both goals were as fluky as can be also know that he needs a ton of conditioning and strength to build his body also know that he was a deer in headlights in the locker room also know that you have zero idea of what you are talking about.
Did you watch the WJC? He played a complete two-way game, he also did the same thing for us. He's had a long time to build up muscle and I'm sure he's added some weight. Look at this years and last years first round picks. They were all small and still came in and made an impact. Look at players like Sam Gagner, Patrick Kane, etc. I'm sure a lot of players draft in the first round(first 15 most likely) will make their professional teams this season.


Last edited by Panthers Rock: 06-21-2008 at 09:55 PM. Reason: quoted flaming post
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06-21-2008, 05:31 PM
  #28
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As for Matthias and his 2 goals...

As I recall it, they were far from highlight-worthy. The kid was willing to plant himself in front of the net, and he got rewarded for it.

Olli loved having him on the ice. I find it very telling that now that Olli is gone, JM thinks this kid is ready for the big show when late last year he felt he wasn't.

Has Shawn taken some magic talent-boosting beans in the last couple months?

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06-21-2008, 05:31 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
Did you watch the WJC? He played a complete two-way game, he also did the same thing for us. He's had a long time to build up muscle and I'm sure he's added some weight. Look at this years and last years first round picks. They were all small and still came in and made an impact. Look at players like Sam Gagner, Patrick Kane, etc. I'm sure a lot of players draft in the first round(first 15 most likely) will make their professional teams this season.
BTW, you do know that he was out with Mono and, well let me explain Mono actually takes alot out of you and it would probably be very difficult for him to build muscle mass during this time, just saying. But hey, if you think he can step in and take over the 2nd line center role against NHL teams, then who am I to disagree. Playoffs here we come.

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06-21-2008, 05:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
Did you watch the WJC? He played a complete two-way game, he also did the same thing for us. He's had a long time to build up muscle and I'm sure he's added some weight. Look at this years and last years first round picks. They were all small and still came in and made an impact. Look at players like Sam Gagner, Patrick Kane, etc. I'm sure a lot of players draft in the first round(first 15 most likely) will make their professional teams this season.
And as you made sure to point out in another thread. Matthias isn't a 1st rounder, so why are you comparing him to people that were in the top 5 of their draft class?

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06-21-2008, 05:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
BTW, you do know that he was out with Mono and, well let me explain Mono actually takes alot out of you and it would probably be very difficult for him to build muscle mass during this time, just saying. But hey, if you think he can step in and take over the 2nd line center role against NHL teams, then who am I to disagree. Playoffs here we come.
He came back and in his first game scored his teams only goal in the game. I'm sure he'll be working hard all summer.

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06-21-2008, 05:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoax15 View Post
Hey guys I wouldn't worry about being out of the playoffs next year because just look at our line-up:

Booth-Weiss-Horton
Olesz-Matthias-UFA Signing(Ryder, or any on the market) or Frolik, only if he's ready.
Zednik-Kreps-McLean
Belak/Kilger-Campbell-Dvorak
Peltonen and Stumpel are not needed.

Ballard-Bouwmeester
Skrastins-Van Ryn
Allen-Welch
Boynton
Murphy is not needed, nor any of our UFA's or RFA's.

Vokoun
Andy

Think about it we have an amazing goaltending duo (top 5 of the conference on a BAD season), we have an extremely solid d (top 4-5 in the conference, and we have an average offense (top 10 in the conference. Thats atleast a playoff spot, and we are a young team with a young coach so who knows how much better we could do.
None of our RFA's are needed? So bye bye Olesz and Bouwmeester

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06-21-2008, 05:59 PM
  #33
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I think everything will be fine too. I'm also confident JM isn't done yet. Crack a beer and relax.

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06-21-2008, 05:59 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
As for Matthias and his 2 goals...

As I recall it, they were far from highlight-worthy. The kid was willing to plant himself in front of the net, and he got rewarded for it.

Olli loved having him on the ice. I find it very telling that now that Olli is gone, JM thinks this kid is ready for the big show when late last year he felt he wasn't.

Has Shawn taken some magic talent-boosting beans in the last couple months?


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Old
06-21-2008, 06:13 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimy View Post
I think everything will be fine too. I'm also confident JM isn't done yet. Crack a beer and relax.
Ding ding ding! Winner.

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06-21-2008, 06:36 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimy View Post
I think everything will be fine too. I'm also confident JM isn't done yet. Crack a beer and relax.
Oh definatelly, everything will be just fine. Just as fine as the past seven seasons have been.

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06-21-2008, 07:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
At least that's the gamble JM has banked on since signing them long term last season.

Without a legitimate veteran scoring threat, this next season will make or break that gamble IMO.
That goes beyond Martin. It is why you scout & draft players. Your post makes it sound like you were against keeping those two in Florida.

-ghoste

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06-21-2008, 07:39 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
As for Matthias and his 2 goals...

As I recall it, they were far from highlight-worthy. The kid was willing to plant himself in front of the net, and he got rewarded for it.

Olli loved having him on the ice. I find it very telling that now that Olli is gone, JM thinks this kid is ready for the big show when late last year he felt he wasn't.

Has Shawn taken some magic talent-boosting beans in the last couple months?
SHHHH, keep this quiet but I seem to remember that Ivan Novoseltsev scored 2 goals in his first game as a Panther.

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Old
06-21-2008, 07:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Heimy View Post
I think everything will be fine too. I'm also confident JM isn't done yet. Crack a beer and relax.

A voice of reason.

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06-21-2008, 08:01 PM
  #40
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ROFL at the Allen bashing and saying we can replace him with Cullimore. Absolutely ridiculous.

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06-21-2008, 08:08 PM
  #41
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Quote:
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ROFL at the Allen bashing and saying we can replace him with Cullimore. Absolutely ridiculous.
Was laughing at that too.

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Old
06-21-2008, 09:28 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bystander View Post
I wouldn't clap that hard Mr. Happy. Ratman wasn't hammering the kid so much as he had a question.


Anyway, I think him sending Matthias down had soemthing to do with his contract as well. It'd kick in earlier if he stayed up.

Also, he did well once he was sent back after struggling a bit at first. Especially in the Memorial Cup. Hopefully he's ready.

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06-21-2008, 09:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
That goes beyond Martin. It is why you scout & draft players. Your post makes it sound like you were against keeping those two in Florida.

-ghoste
No, I never was against signing them. In fact, I'm thrilled they were locked up long term.

What I'm trying to convey is that JM is relying on them to be the future...he's even said as much. Last year, the burden to produce was shared by a veteran star, but now he is gone.

Unless another one is brought in, it's all on the young'uns shoulders.


Last edited by ratmanfu: 06-21-2008 at 10:05 PM.
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06-21-2008, 10:05 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
I wouldn't clap that hard Mr. Happy. Ratman wasn't hammering the kid so much as he had a question.


Anyway, I think him sending Matthias down had soemthing to do with his contract as well. It'd kick in earlier if he stayed up.

Also, he did well once he was sent back after struggling a bit at first. Especially in the Memorial Cup. Hopefully he's ready.
I like Matthias, and I feel he has a bright future ahead of him.

I was pointing the finger squarely at JM, though.

Putting aside the contract issue for a moment, I think when his captain publicly requested that Matthias stay, it was a bit of a challenge to Jacques. By that stretch of the season, Jokinen needed a fire lit under his ass, and Matthias was the only thing that got him going.

IMO, Matthias hasn't improved substantially since that point in time...I just find it curious that the ever-cautious Jacques Martin thinks he can contribute without seeing what he does in training camp first.

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06-21-2008, 10:14 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by braindeadalive View Post
Oh definatelly, everything will be just fine. Just as fine as the past seven seasons have been.

That made me laugh...call me certifiable nuts but I'm getting more optimistic in my "old age" towards this club

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06-21-2008, 11:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
No, I never was against signing them. In fact, I'm thrilled they were locked up long term.

What I'm trying to convey is that JM is relying on them to be the future...he's even said as much. Last year, the burden to produce was shared by a veteran star, but now he is gone.

Unless another one is brought in, it's all on the young'uns shoulders.
Well honestly, we're all relying on them. It is why we all suffered through the hard times of the rebuilding process, sticking with the core group. Now these guys have been in the league for a few seasons and need to start taking matters into their own hands and produce. Perhaps they were relying on Olli a little too much.

-ghoste

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Old
06-21-2008, 11:10 PM
  #47
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A quote from the Sun-Sentinel Newspaper page5C:

Quote:
Martin said he'll re-evaluate this week whether the Panthers need to acquire a scoring forward through free agency.
You guys honestly need to calm down, JM and the scouting crew will ***** our problems...Relax until pre-season atleast..

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06-21-2008, 11:16 PM
  #48
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IF the defense plays as well as it can and IF Vokoun/Anderson have another solid year MAYBE this roster can compete for a seven/eight seed... and they'll need some breaks to do that.

Despite the emergence of the BWH line, Booth & Weiss are not first line talents yet (and may never reach that level). Horton clearly has that potential - maybe he reaches it with Jokinen gone - maybe not. Olesz (IMO) also has that potential, but I don't see it happening this season. Matthias is two to three seasons away (at best) from filling that role. Frolik & Repik also need more seasoning.

Will Horton, Weiss, Booth & Olesz show signs of progress this year? One would hope so. I think it's foolish optimism to think that will be enough. If this team doesn't acquire a first line forward who can pot 25-30 goals during the offseason, I would start looking forward to the 2009 draft.



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06-21-2008, 11:24 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
IF the defense plays as well as it can and IF Vokoun/Anderson have another solid year MAYBE this roster can compete for a seven/eight seed... and they'll need some breaks to do that.

Despite the emergence of the BWH line, Booth & Weiss are not first line talents yet (and may never reach that level). Horton clearly has that potential - maybe he reaches it with Jokinen gone - maybe not. Olesz (IMO) also has that potential, but I don't see it happening this season. Matthias is two to three seasons away (at best) from filling that role. Frolik & Repik also need more seasoning.

Will Horton, Weiss, Booth & Olesz show signs of progress this year? One would hope so. I think it's foolish optimism to think that will be enough. If this team doesn't acquire a first line forward who can pot 25-30 goals during the offseason, I would start looking forward to the 2009 draft.


Im not sure if that is correct. If you look at the last important 20-25 games of last season, the Weiss line played against all the other top lines. They were out there against Lecav, Ovechkin, etc... and they managed to pick up +10-+15 in that period of time. Olli was never put out there against those guys.

They were awesome during that period. They kept the puck away from the other top line and scored many more times then they did.

If you take that to be the case this year and they can continue to outscore those other lines(Having our D and our goalie helps them as well in outscoring those other top lines) and they should, were fine.

They ARE a number one line.

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06-22-2008, 03:51 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
Im not sure if that is correct. If you look at the last important 20-25 games of last season, the Weiss line played against all the other top lines. They were out there against Lecav, Ovechkin, etc... and they managed to pick up +10-+15 in that period of time. Olli was never put out there against those guys.

They were awesome during that period. They kept the puck away from the other top line and scored many more times then they did.

If you take that to be the case this year and they can continue to outscore those other lines(Having our D and our goalie helps them as well in outscoring those other top lines) and they should, were fine.

They ARE a number one line.
You know what, I've been pretty negative about this trade, and still am, but you are right in a sense.

They did have an amazing run, but Booth kept them hot. He was the one who consistently put the puck in the net. Horton was so damn streaky and Weiss was on and off. They showed glimpses of greatness, but didn't keep it together quite enough. Weiss was basically invisible offensively in the last 10-12 games.

If they can finally find a niche, they have potential. We've all seen this line dominate when at it's best. I hope Booth's work ethic rubs off on Weiss and Horton.

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