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Biron to Ottawa?

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Old
02-17-2004, 02:57 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Maybe we could get V back???? Please say yes!!!
I'd love to have V back.

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02-17-2004, 03:14 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fan-of-#9
I'd love to have V back.
id love to see him back...that would rock, i was so pissed when i heard he left

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02-17-2004, 04:53 PM
  #28
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Old
02-17-2004, 07:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
This is the first I've heard of it.

http://www.sportsline.com/nhl/story/NHL_SC-RUMOR

Rachunek would be someone that would have to be coming back.

Rachunek was a healthy scratch against the Rangers yesterday. There is mention that Muckler may look to deal him.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040217/col_garrioch-sun.html

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02-17-2004, 08:28 PM
  #30
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Okay...this isn't really the type of deal you'd to improve your team now, but what the hey...we know Muckler drafted Biron and McKee. We know he thinks the Sens need toughness on the blueline and supposedly they need a goalie. McKee also brings Stanley Cup playoff experience.

Biron, Brown, McKee, Kotalik and 2nd rounder for Volchenkov, Varada, Prusek and Rachunek.

Sens get rid of unwanted Rachunek and two players who are injured now and a backup goaltender for some possibly key playoff pieces:
-Brown helps the Sens penalty killing, ranked 11th at present. A Muckler draftee with playoff experience.
-McKee adds toughness, assuming he gets healthy and Volchenkov doesn't. Has playoff experience and was a Muckler draftee.
-Biron gives the Sens a goaltender, sending Lalime to backup duty, because they apparently feel he's not that good. Biron was a Muckler draftee.
-Kotalik gives the Sens some size on the boards

What they give up:
-Varada is probably gone for the year
-Rachunek is out of favor
-Prusek is a backup. I think this guy could be a starter
-Volchenkov is injured for the rest of the year

In terms of value, I think we win the deal. But in terms of this year, Ottawa wins it. And in terms of intangibles, Muckler gets his players back.

I realize it's a pipe dream, but we need V back.

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02-17-2004, 10:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Biron, Brown, McKee, Kotalik and 2nd rounder for Volchenkov, Varada, Prusek and Rachunek.
I think that's giving way too much up. Replace Kotalik with Pominville and the 2nd with a 3rd and we're evened up.

EDIT : Also, I just noticed that Kotalik is almost close to being on par with last season's goal and point totals. Though I do consider this season a slight disappointment for him, I see no reason to give up and trade him. I think our expectations for him were way too high for him before the season started (expecting him to be our #1 winger). Next season I predict he'll be somewhere from 25-30g, and about 20-25a.


Last edited by lecherous: 02-18-2004 at 03:10 AM.
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Old
02-18-2004, 08:50 AM
  #32
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I wasn't on the Kotalik bandwagon. I wasn't surprised by his season last year. That being said, I am extremely close to admiting I was wrong on him. And I couldn't be happier to do so.

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02-18-2004, 08:53 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
I think that's giving way too much up. Replace Kotalik with Pominville and the 2nd with a 3rd and we're evened up.

EDIT : Also, I just noticed that Kotalik is almost close to being on par with last season's goal and point totals. Though I do consider this season a slight disappointment for him, I see no reason to give up and trade him. I think our expectations for him were way too high for him before the season started (expecting him to be our #1 winger). Next season I predict he'll be somewhere from 25-30g, and about 20-25a.
Why not just take out the 2nd rounder? My tendency is to favor things from the Sabres perspective, and I thought I did that quite severely here.

Personally, I think Prusek is better than Biron, but his market value isn't.

Varada is valuable, but I may be overstating his worth simply because he's one of my favorite players.

How's this?

Biron, Brown, McKee, Kotalik for Volchenkov, Varada, Prusek and Rachunek.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:26 PM
  #34
Hugh Nito I
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Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Personally, I think Prusek is better than Biron, but his market value isn't.
Biron is a player that I, as a Sens fan, would be interested in as an immediate upgrade over Lalime. However, I also think that Prusek deserves a decent chance before any trade is made. Ottawa is probably not ready to make a trade centering around these two just yet. If the above statement is true, it obviously makes little sense for Ottawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Biron, Brown, McKee, Kotalik for Volchenkov, Varada, Prusek and Rachunek.
Rachunek has more career points than Kotalik, who is a forward and older than Karel. Kotalik plays RW according to www.nhl.com, which means he would the 4th choice after Alfie, Hossa & Havlat. Little to no need for Ottawa right now, since Chris Neil is doing an OK job as number 4 right now as the only really physical forward. If he can play lw as well, his chances of playing would increase but with the Bondra acquisition the urgent need is gone. McKee could have filled a need a few weeks ago before Todd Simpson was acquired, now that spot has been filled as well. I realise McKee is an upgrade over Simpson, but since it basically would be for Rachunek/Volchenkov, that trade is just not realistic even though Volchenkov is injured. It would rather weaken the overall D position than anything else.

Varada is one of the few tough guys (even though that's getting better) on the Senators roster and therefore is valued quite highly. Curtis would DEFINITELY be an upgrade over Shaun Van Allen as of now, especially because he seems to able to win a face-off every now and then. When Bonk/White/Spezza/Fisher are all healthy, he would still be No 5 at that position. In the mean time, Smolinski is doing a very good job.

I don't really see Ottawa filling any need with this trade or upgrading any area except for depth at RW, their deepest position. Brown, yes maybe, but don't expect to get a Rachunek or Volchenkov out of that deal. Muckler has said he is not trading any roster players, and I don't think he would make an exception for Curtis Brown. If a trade is going to happen between these two clubs, I'd guess the Senators would want a Chris Drury or Taylor Pyatt coming back, and I'm saying that just because I've always like Pyatt. I don't think the rest of the Sens fans would agree.

Since Drury seems hesitant to play in Canada and Pyatt, as far as I understand, is someone you guys plan to build around, I don't see these two teams being good trading partners right now.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Kotalik plays RW according to www.nhl.com
Kotalik can play both wing's, but he is currently playing LW with Drury and Dumont.
Kotalik has played LW for most of the season.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Rachunek has more career points than Kotalik, who is a forward and older than Karel. Kotalik plays RW according to www.nhl.com, which means he would the 4th choice after Alfie, Hossa & Havlat.
Rachunek has played in 238 NHL games scoring a total of 95 points for a .40 ppg average.

Kotalik has played in 140 NHL games scoring a total of 65 points for a .46 ppg average.

Kotalik is only 8 months older.

Kotalik can play LW.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Biron is a player that I, as a Sens fan, would be interested in as an immediate upgrade over Lalime. However, I also think that Prusek deserves a decent chance before any trade is made. Ottawa is probably not ready to make a trade centering around these two just yet. If the above statement is true, it obviously makes little sense for Ottawa.



Rachunek has more career points than Kotalik, who is a forward and older than Karel. Kotalik plays RW according to www.nhl.com, which means he would the 4th choice after Alfie, Hossa & Havlat. Little to no need for Ottawa right now, since Chris Neil is doing an OK job as number 4 right now as the only really physical forward. If he can play lw as well, his chances of playing would increase but with the Bondra acquisition the urgent need is gone. McKee could have filled a need a few weeks ago before Todd Simpson was acquired, now that spot has been filled as well. I realise McKee is an upgrade over Simpson, but since it basically would be for Rachunek/Volchenkov, that trade is just not realistic even though Volchenkov is injured. It would rather weaken the overall D position than anything else.

Varada is one of the few tough guys (even though that's getting better) on the Senators roster and therefore is valued quite highly. Curtis would DEFINITELY be an upgrade over Shaun Van Allen as of now, especially because he seems to able to win a face-off every now and then. When Bonk/White/Spezza/Fisher are all healthy, he would still be No 5 at that position. In the mean time, Smolinski is doing a very good job.

I don't really see Ottawa filling any need with this trade or upgrading any area except for depth at RW, their deepest position. Brown, yes maybe, but don't expect to get a Rachunek or Volchenkov out of that deal. Muckler has said he is not trading any roster players, and I don't think he would make an exception for Curtis Brown. If a trade is going to happen between these two clubs, I'd guess the Senators would want a Chris Drury or Taylor Pyatt coming back, and I'm saying that just because I've always like Pyatt. I don't think the rest of the Sens fans would agree.

Since Drury seems hesitant to play in Canada and Pyatt, as far as I understand, is someone you guys plan to build around, I don't see these two teams being good trading partners right now.
I think Muckler made it pretty clear that he is done making moves and is prepared to go into the playoffs with what he currently has. If anything Ottawa may make a move to fill the void of Varada's injury, something very minor if anything at all.

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:45 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
Kotalik can play both wing's, but he is currently playing LW with Drury and Dumont.
Kotalik has played LW for most of the season.
He also played center in Rochester

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Old
02-19-2004, 12:51 PM
  #39
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Biron is a player that I, as a Sens fan, would be interested in as an immediate upgrade over Lalime. However, I also think that Prusek deserves a decent chance before any trade is made. Ottawa is probably not ready to make a trade centering around these two just yet. If the above statement is true, it obviously makes little sense for Ottawa.
Hasek was a backup in Buffalo when Muckler traded for Fuhr. Prusek may deserve a chance (agreed), but the Sens aren't going to give Prusek a chance with two months left in this season. Interesting that you perceive Biron as an upgrade over Lalime. I think there is little to choose between them, but perception is reality in trades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Rachunek has more career points than Kotalik, who is a forward and older than Karel. Kotalik plays RW according to www.nhl.com, which means he would the 4th choice after Alfie, Hossa & Havlat. Little to no need for Ottawa right now, since Chris Neil is doing an OK job as number 4 right now as the only really physical forward. If he can play lw as well, his chances of playing would increase but with the Bondra acquisition the urgent need is gone. McKee could have filled a need a few weeks ago before Todd Simpson was acquired, now that spot has been filled as well. I realise McKee is an upgrade over Simpson, but since it basically would be for Rachunek/Volchenkov, that trade is just not realistic even though Volchenkov is injured. It would rather weaken the overall D position than anything else.
Rachunek has more points because he's played in more games than Kotalik. If you'd prefer to take Tim Connolly, who is younger and has more points than Rachunek, be my guest.

NHL.com may say what they want, but Kotalik is used as a LW. He can play both wings.

http://www.forecaster.ca/demo/hockey/depthchart.cgi?buf shows an accurate depth chart for Buffalo.

He's probably your #3 LW, after Bondra was dealt for. He replaces part of the physicality that Varada gave you. Part.

McKee is nowhere close to Simpson. McKee is a #3 and Simpson was on waivers to start the year. And apart from just being better, McKee has playoff experience and was a Muckler draftee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
Varada is one of the few tough guys (even though that's getting better) on the Senators roster and therefore is valued quite highly. Curtis would DEFINITELY be an upgrade over Shaun Van Allen as of now, especially because he seems to able to win a face-off every now and then. When Bonk/White/Spezza/Fisher are all healthy, he would still be No 5 at that position. In the mean time, Smolinski is doing a very good job.
Brown would improve the Sens PK immediately. Brown also has more playoff experience than anyone on Ottawa's roster. Well, except for Varada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Nito I
I don't really see Ottawa filling any need with this trade or upgrading any area except for depth at RW, their deepest position. Brown, yes maybe, but don't expect to get a Rachunek or Volchenkov out of that deal. Muckler has said he is not trading any roster players, and I don't think he would make an exception for Curtis Brown. If a trade is going to happen between these two clubs, I'd guess the Senators would want a Chris Drury or Taylor Pyatt coming back, and I'm saying that just because I've always like Pyatt. I don't think the rest of the Sens fans would agree.
Muckler wouldn't be trading any starting roster players if he dealt Prusek (backup), Volchenkov (injured) or Varada (injured). He would if he dealt Rachunek, but Rachunek seems firmly planted in Martin's doghouse.

Essentially, this trade has Varada and Kotalik switching. Kotalik is playing, Varada isn't. Varada is more of a RW than LW, BTW. It has McKee and Volchenkov switching. McKee has playoff experience, is rougher and was a Muckler draftee. He will likely play before Volchenkov does. I basically look at the rest of the trade of Biron for Rachunek and Brown for Prusek. From Ottawa's perspective, Biron replaces Lalime, who replaces Prusek, while Brown adds a playoff savvy forward and Rachunek takes away a defenseman.

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02-19-2004, 12:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
Kotalik can play both wing's, but he is currently playing LW with Drury and Dumont.
Kotalik has played LW for most of the season.
Ok, fair enough. From Muckler's trades and signings, the focus has been a lot on chemistry. Right now, Shaefer is working really well White-Alfie, Smolinski is a great complement for Spezza-Havlat, and Langfeld has 7 g 6 a in 21 games as mostly the third part of a Bonk-Hossa line. Vermette is very defensively responsible player who is believed to have a good upside and deserves ice-time. Add Bondra to that group and the need for Kotalik becomes very small. His 26 points this season would place him 9th among Sens forwards.

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Old
02-19-2004, 01:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Muckler wouldn't be trading any starting roster players if he dealt Prusek (backup), Volchenkov (injured) or Varada (injured). He would if he dealt Rachunek, but Rachunek seems firmly planted in Martin's doghouse..
The whole Rachunek benching is a bit blown out of proportion. The fact that Redden-Rachunek, Phillips-Chara are Ottawa's top-4 still stands. Pothier, Leschyshyn, Simpson and Hnidy are not, Volchenkov could become one in a year or two. Martin does this to send a message to a player, he did it last year to Phillips as well. The top-4 are still very young and a little tough love probably doesn't hurt. WR-KR, CP-ZC still are the top four, however.

Just because Volchenkov and Varada are injured are not indications of them not being part of the franchise's long term plans. If Ottawa would have been a team of 11 40-year old Ron Francis + 1 27 yo injured Varada at forward and 5 Chris Chelios + 1 injured Volchenkov at defense, yes, in that case I think they could have been traded. Varada was brought in for the long-term, injured or not, and Volchenkov is here to stay. These two players are relied upon to be leaders on the ice with physical play and determination for many, many years to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Essentially, this trade has Varada and Kotalik switching. Kotalik is playing, Varada isn't. Varada is more of a RW than LW, BTW.
"Win-now" doesn't necessarily mean "desperation". I would like to think that the commitment to Varada goes deeper than a common injury. The depth is in place to handle the situation without him for now. If anyone, I would presume a Tyson Nash/Tyler Wright/Scott Walker (yes, please) kind of player would be more of a target.

A Kotalik-Varada trade would mean Ottawa gains scoring and loses out on grit. There is a HUGE problem right there.

I know he used to be a RW in Buffalo and that he prefers playing there, however in Ottawa he has been used as the LW net-crasher/grinder for Bonk-Hossa. His amazing skills with the puck has helped him settle in well despite switching sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
Rachunek has more points because he's played in more games than Kotalik. If you'd prefer to take Tim Connolly, who is younger and has more points than Rachunek, be my guest..
The points comparison was mostly meant to prove that Rachunek was a more established NHLer than Kotalik, I would presume he has more trade value around the league. The way Muckler has been dealing, he'd probably add something to Rachunek to land another big name (if Mr Melnyk agrees) rather than trading straight up for someone. Kotalik is a very good player, absolutely, but if Ottawa could package Rachunek with a 2004 1st rounder to land O'Neill or Smyth, they would rather do that.

I still wouldn't think Karel's available, though, because of Volchenkov's injury and the fact that Pothier is not top-4 material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LALALALALALAFONTAINE
McKee is nowhere close to Simpson. McKee is a #3 and Simpson was on waivers to start the year. And apart from just being better, McKee has playoff experience and was a Muckler draftee.
McKee >> Simpson, no question about that. Is it Rachunek you're after? I think that Rachunek's offence would be too missed, especially his right-handed shot.

I would like to add Brown, but the problem being that no roster players (injured or not) would be going the other way. Picks & prospects available however. And no thanks, I don't want Connolly for Rachunek, even though there was a time when I probably would.


Last edited by Hugh Nito I: 02-19-2004 at 01:52 PM.
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