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Holland: we like Howard's "potential"

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:17 AM
  #76
HockeyinHD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
OWNED!

This thread is full of some real beauties. Had to dig it up for old times sake.

Yeah, Mr. ESPN sure was right that Howard was done, never to be more than a stop-gap #1.... just like drafting McCollum meant that he was the goalie of the future, because he was taken in the first round!
You do know that only 9 teams in the entire NHL have seen Howard started against them more than once, right? And that only 3 of those 9 are playoff clubs?

Good God, I hope Howard ends up being as majestic as people like DJ are proclaiming.

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02-01-2010, 11:31 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
To be honest, I think Howard will be our #1 pretty soon.. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people once he makes the Wings full-time.. Including all of us..
Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
god, some people make me laugh. I cant wait for this kid to make it and let them eat their own god damn words or contradict themselves. I have been a fan of this kid since 2003. I hated us picking him in 2002, but i became a fan. Write him off. Do it. I have seen him several times and the kid is a man playing with boys and is VERY bored. Talk to him, you will hear it. Its really not that hard. Im not a fan of too many peopple. but this kid is the real deal. Babcock loved him in last years camps, loved how well he prepared himself and if i could find the link i would post it. Jimmy lost a ton of weight last summer, got in great shape. He will go into this summer, get in better shape and dominate everything thrown at him. Ill mark it now.
Good call both of you, he's been great so far.

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:38 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
You do know that only 9 teams in the entire NHL have seen Howard started against them more than once, right? And that only 3 of those 9 are playoff clubs?

Good God, I hope Howard ends up being as majestic as people like DJ are proclaiming.
HD is really, really mad that he was wrong about Howard.

It's going to be fun watching the internal struggle for however long Howard lasts in Detroit.

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Old
02-01-2010, 12:05 PM
  #79
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b...b....but, industry consensus!
no wonder HD was bowing at gare's altar. they both love reading waaaaay too deep into organizational happenings (picks, quotes, moves) without knowing the organization's process. then, they draw conclusions on [faulty] second- or third-party (or their own) accounts.
thankfully the Wings actually did their own scouting and ignored what 5 industry 'experts' thought about Howie.

good dig, dj. this was quite a re-affirming re-read.

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Old
02-01-2010, 12:12 PM
  #80
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I was lurkin' around still when this was going on. Great read.

Haven't seen Gare post anywhere close to here since?

He learned his lesson, why haven't you HiHD?

j/k big guy.

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Old
02-01-2010, 01:57 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by gare joyce View Post
Howard is on the same track as Ryan Miller ... thanks to the NHL lockout. Miller would have arrived in the NHL a year earlier. Hey, all Howard has to do next year to catch up is go 30 and 14 and register a 922 sv %. A walk in the park.
Only 11 more victories and I guess Mr. ESPN will be trumpeting Howard as the next Ryan Miller. I mean, he said it himself right?

Gotta say, seeing Ericsson's brutal defensive game and knowing that he and Kindl were playing heavy minutes in front of him in the AHL might help explain some of his numbers at that level.

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:06 PM
  #82
HockeyinHD
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
HD is really, really mad that he was wrong about Howard.
a) Why would I be mad about being wrong about Howard and

b) How am I wrong about Howard?

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Old
02-01-2010, 02:23 PM
  #83
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You are never wrong...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg untitled.JPG‎ (71.1 KB, 58 views)

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:25 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Artz19 View Post
You are never wrong...
So, are you saying Jimmy Howard is better than Ryan Miller? Or that Ryan Miller was a top tier goaltender before this season?

If you aren't saying either of those things, then what are you saying?

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:38 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
So, are you saying Jimmy Howard is better than Ryan Miller? Or that Ryan Miller was a top tier goaltender before this season?

If you aren't saying either of those things, then what are you saying?
Ryan Miller was a top tier goalie before this season.

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Artz19 View Post
Ryan Miller was a top tier goalie before this season.
That's quite a large tier you have there. Be careful where you point it.

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:46 PM
  #87
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Whew! Now I'm glad I argued with Gare, i was regretting it right afterward.

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:53 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's quite a large tier you have there. Be careful where you point it.
2 conference finals, All-Star starter, 160+ wins post lockout and counting not good enough for you?

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Old
02-01-2010, 03:57 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Artz19 View Post
2 conference finals, All-Star starter, 160+ wins post lockout and counting not good enough for you?
Nope, since Osgood has a better playoff resume, an All-star gig, and 90+ post-lockout wins getting injured a couple times.

Is he in the 'top-tier' too, now?

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Old
02-01-2010, 04:10 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Nope, since Osgood has a better playoff resume, an All-star gig, and 90+ post-lockout wins getting injured a couple times.

Is he in the 'top-tier' too, now?
Detroit Red Wings vs Buffalo Sabres might have something to do with that better playoff resume.

Just to you know "give some context to the numbers".

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Old
02-01-2010, 04:51 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Artz19 View Post
Detroit Red Wings vs Buffalo Sabres might have something to do with that better playoff resume.
So, you're saying that there is a team context to be considered when looking at goalie stats which include playoff appearances, all-star games, and regular season wins?

Ya don't say.

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Old
02-01-2010, 05:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
So, you're saying that there is a team context to be considered when looking at goalie stats which include playoff appearances, all-star games, and regular season wins?

Ya don't say.
That or you could actually watch NHL hockey games and you would realize that Ryan Miller has been one of the top goaltenders in the NHL since the lockout.

OR

You could sit there and continue to argue that you are never wrong and the sky is in fact orange.

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:22 PM
  #93
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Man, good to see I am not the only person to get crucified for negative Howard comments.

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Old
02-01-2010, 09:44 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Artz19 View Post
That or you could actually watch NHL hockey games and you would realize that Ryan Miller has been one of the top goaltenders in the NHL since the lockout.
Ah yes, the old 'you don't watch games' comment.

Say, Artz... how many Buffalo games have you been watching?

Quote:
You could sit there and continue to argue that you are never wrong and the sky is in fact orange.
You're being silly.

GAA since the lockout: 11th, 20th, 24th, 18th.
Save % since the lockout: t-9th, 15th, t-29th, 8th.
Wins since the lockout: t-11th, t-3rd, 6th, 8th.

That's your 'top-tier' guy, 2006-2009.

Now, this year? Absolutely. He's been unbelievable this year. In a just world, he would get a significant amount of MVP votes... but this is the Crosby and Ovechkin league, so he will get very few.

But that's this season, not 'since the lockout'.

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Old
02-01-2010, 10:04 PM
  #95
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Wow, this is an awesome blast from the past. Not so much to pull a Nelson Muntz and say "ha ha" but just to see what opinion was about a year and a half ago and compare it to the current reality. Some has changed, some has not.

I remember linking to a lot of mock drafts that suggested the Wings would draft McCollum. That obviously ended up being the case. Gare said Pickard would be Detroit's pick but he was nabbed by the Preds. So Gare got the goaltender wrong but was spot on like most about the position Detroit would fill. Markstrom is considered the #1 prospect for Florida so Gare's opinion of ranking him ahead of McCollum and Pickard has some merit.

He was right in some ways about Mason who won rookie of the year but wrong in others as Mason has struggled this season. He said Howard would need to come close to Ryan Miller's rookie stats to be considered a legit netminder and as Fission Fire points out Howard actually compares quite favorably on a Wings team that has been a shadow of it's former self.

Last but not least, Ken Holland was very, very critical of Howard's inconsistency prior to this season. The Wings were not convinced Howard was ready to take on the role he took this season. Now if they felt this was the best way to motivate Howard then kudos to them. There was literally no one who suggested Howard was capable of playing at the level he's played at this season.

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Old
02-01-2010, 10:49 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
a) Why would I be mad about being wrong about Howard and

b) How am I wrong about Howard?
a. Because being right about everything seems to be a very personal point of pride with you.

b. You have spent many, many, posts over many years detailing how Howard wasn't ready to play because:

1. He didn't play an "NHL schedule worth of games" in college
2. He didn't play an "NHL schedule worth of games" any year in the minors and therefore lacked the stamina to start 9 games in a row, or 12 of 13, etc.
3. He didn't dominate the AHL and win 5 MVPs in a row
4. He isn't really any different from Jake McCracken
5. He's inconsistent
6. He's out of shape

Those are just the ones off the top of my head. I'm sure there were more.

Fact is, if Howard becomes an all-star caliber goalie in the NHL, you will have hundreds upon hundreds of completely ridiculous incorrect prediction posts out there haunting you. And it's my opinion that that thought bugs the hell out of you.

Maybe he'll blow out both his knees or flame out before too long - I don't know. But for right now, you can't argue that he's not the key to this team right now aside from maybe Lidstrom. Nobody else is doing a whole lot, that's for damn sure.

You were wrong about him in just about every way - whether that's an "I was wrong about him, he was outstanding for a while there" kind of thing or an "I was wrong about him, he's been our franchise goalie now for 10 years", well, we'll have to watch and see.

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:32 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
OWNED!

This thread is full of some real beauties. Had to dig it up for old times sake.

Yeah, Mr. ESPN sure was right that Howard was done, never to be more than a stop-gap #1.... just like drafting McCollum meant that he was the goalie of the future, because he was taken in the first round!
Uh, do we know otherwise yet?
By the way, Gare Joyce might be the most respected hockey writer in the world, when it comes to the draft. Calling him Mr. ESPN is like calling Steve Yzerman Mr. C's Donuts because he played for the coffee shop team as a peewee.

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Old
02-01-2010, 11:32 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by 14ari13 View Post
Good call both of you, he's been great so far.
You just went up 5 notches in my book for finding that one... Boy, that was a drunken ramble if ive ever seen one (by myself)... Thanks for finding that one... I tried to tell people years ago but no one believed me.

Mark this one: Larsson isnt going to be what everyone thinks he is..

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Old
02-02-2010, 12:26 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
You just went up 5 notches in my book for finding that one... Boy, that was a drunken ramble if ive ever seen one (by myself)... Thanks for finding that one... I tried to tell people years ago but no one believed me.

Mark this one: Larsson isnt going to be what everyone thinks he is..
I've been on board since that NCAA final game he played when he made something like 50 saves and lost 1-0 when his team got screwed out of the tie goal on a phantom "in the crease" call.

We won't know until he plays in the playoffs, but I have a feeling he's a big-game goalie and that he'll take his play up a notch when things get gritty. We'll see, sooner or later.

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Old
02-02-2010, 12:27 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post
OWNED!
This thread is full of some real beauties. Had to dig it up for old times sake.

Yeah, Mr. ESPN sure was right that Howard was done, never to be more than a stop-gap #1.... just like drafting McCollum meant that he was the goalie of the future, because he was taken in the first round!
Ouch.


I still think we should wait till after Howard's sophomore year to declare him the REAL deal.

edit: MAN! There was some serious Howie hating going on even before he came up from the AHL. This is funny as hell. I hope I don't have any embarrassing quotes out there.

Can't erase the internet


Last edited by GT500x: 02-02-2010 at 12:38 AM.
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