HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

2009 Entry Draft Discussion v 1.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-22-2008, 08:57 PM
  #76
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,453
vCash: 50
Same applies to Alexander OVechkin, but I am dumbfounded that he has 163 goals, 310 points already!

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:03 PM
  #77
Ten
Registered User
 
Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto.
Posts: 8,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
What? Dude, the kid has 99 goals, 294 points in his career, and he is still a long way till he hits the 500 goal, 1000 point mark. Let his performance do all the talking.
He'll reach 1000 points in 8 years if he goes on the pace he has over the last three seasons. He's more likely to reach that in 5 or 6, considering he's no where near his peak.

Ten is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:05 PM
  #78
Ten
Registered User
 
Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto.
Posts: 8,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bills09 View Post
Brayden Schenn is what this team needs.
Heart Speed Skill Grit.
hes got it all
tank for Schenn.
So is Tavares. So is Hedman. So is Matt Duchene. etc...

Our 1st pick in '09 becomes our best prospect almost immediately, if not our best player.

Ten is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:10 PM
  #79
I am Canadian
Swedes + Leafs =
 
I am Canadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,795
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
So is Tavares. So is Hedman. So is Matt Duchene. etc...

Our 1st pick in '09 becomes our best prospect almost immediately, if not our best player.
Only if we pick in the top 5.

I am Canadian is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:14 PM
  #80
LC
Registered User
 
LC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SW Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Did you know that there was a movie named "The Human Eraser"? And not surprisingly, Arnold Schwarzenegger was the star of the movie.
Leasty it was called Eraser, the guy who made the avy added the word Human on top

LC is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:17 PM
  #81
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
How many Hart trophies does he need before he hits 25 to get there? He's well on his way.

Amazing how much people forget over one season, and that goes for both of them.
Hart trophy's IMO have very little to do with tagging someone as "generational talent".

I just find the term used far too loosely today. Putting Crosby in the same class as Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr or Howe IMO isn't correct.

I didn't have the pleasure of watching Howe or Orr live but Lemieux and Gretzky I did from day one. He's definitely not on their level.

Gretzky and Lemieux dominated almost every single game they played in. Each and every time you laid eyes on them you left the game gasping because you couldn't believe what you just witnessed. I've watched a ton of Pens games since Crosby came into the league and I don't feel that way when I watch him play.

Crosby is an elite franchise hockey player no doubt about it but I'm sorry I can't call him a generational talent.

For example:

What is Crosby doing that Ovechkin isn't?

Is Crosby 20-30 points ahead of the rest of the league's players? NO

Is Crosby 20-30 goals ahead of the next highest scorer? NO

Is Crosby's PPG avg WAY ahead of the rest of the pack? NO

Generational players appear as if they are always playing against 5 year olds. Basically doing what they want, when they want, at any time throughout the game.

LTL is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:23 PM
  #82
Ten
Registered User
 
Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto.
Posts: 8,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovetheleafs View Post
Hart trophy's IMO have very little to do with tagging someone as "generational talent".

I just find the term used far too loosely today. Putting Crosby in the same class as Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr or Howe IMO isn't correct.

I didn't have the pleasure of watching Howe or Orr live but Lemieux and Gretzky I did from day one. He's definitely not on their level.

Gretzky and Lemieux dominated almost every single game they played in. Each and every time you laid eyes on them you left the game gasping because you couldn't believe what you just witnessed. I've watched a ton of Pens games since Crosby came into the league and I don't feel that way when I watch him play.

Crosby is an elite franchise hockey player no doubt about it but I'm sorry I can't call him a generational talent.

For example:

What is Crosby doing that Ovechkin isn't?

Is Crosby 20-30 points ahead of the rest of the league's players? NO

Is Crosby 20-30 goals ahead of the next highest scorer? NO

Is Crosby's PPG avg WAY ahead of the rest of the pack? NO

Generational players appear as if they are always playing against 5 year olds. Basically doing what they want, when they want, at any time throughout the game.
Crosby's impact on the game has not been seen from a player his age since Lemieux and Gretzky. He may not be better than them, but he's better than just about everyone else since then.

Ten is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:24 PM
  #83
Ten
Registered User
 
Ten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto.
Posts: 8,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
Only if we pick in the top 5.
You say that like that's not the most likely situation...

Ten is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:27 PM
  #84
EazyB97
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 27,849
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
Crosby's impact on the game has not been seen from a player his age since Lemieux and Gretzky. He may not be better than them, but he's better than just about everyone else since then.
Didn't AO win the ROY over him and now they each have a Hart trophy? Is his impact even bigger than AO's on the ice? Or would you say both are generational talents?

EazyB97 is online now  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:31 PM
  #85
SpeakerForTheDead
Registered User
 
SpeakerForTheDead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brampton/Chicago
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,866
vCash: 2000
Duchene is amazing!!

That is all.

SpeakerForTheDead is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:32 PM
  #86
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftindust View Post
Crosby's impact on the game has not been seen from a player his age since Lemieux and Gretzky. He may not be better than them, but he's better than just about everyone else since then.
Is he really though?

I've thought about many times since he's been drafted and honestly I can't say that he is.

Is he better then Joe Sakic or a Steve Yzerman?

I'm not so sure.

I guess I'll have to give him another 4-5 years but I shouldn't have to wait and see with generational talents. I should know immediately after watching him play.

It's a good argument though and definitely could go either way.

LTL is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:34 PM
  #87
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,453
vCash: 50
Surprisingly, Peter Forsberg and Sidney Crosby have similar PPG averages over their first 3 seasons into their NHL careers, even though Peter was more older.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LC View Post
Leasty it was called Eraser, the guy who made the avy added the word Human on top
Aww, my bad. lol.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:35 PM
  #88
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Or would you say both are generational talents?
That's my biggest concern as well. How many possible players could be considered generational talents in such a short period of time?

Points aside.

LTL is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 09:42 PM
  #89
LTL
Registered User
 
LTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: D.T
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,288
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Surprisingly, Peter Forsberg and Sidney Crosby have similar PPG averages over their first 3 seasons into their NHL careers, even though Peter was more older.
Take a look at this:

1 Wayne Gretzky 1.92
2 Mario Lemieux 1.88
3 Mike Bossy 1.50
4 Marcel Dionne 1.31
5 Peter Stastny 1.27
6 Jaromir Jagr 1.26

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stical_leaders

Although some of those players played in a time when the NHL was all about offense and very little defence. Gretzky and Lemieux were still way beyond what any one else was doing at he time.

I remember being in hockey pools where if you chose Gretzky or Lemieux your points only counted as half points.
Everyone would still choose them because even at 50% you still came out on top.

LTL is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 10:24 PM
  #90
FlareKnight
Registered User
 
FlareKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,089
vCash: 50
Really something that we've got the 2009 draft topic open. Just a really different feel this year on the board when you compare to the last few seasons. Sure the playoffs seemed tough to reach, but don't remember talking about having a shot at the top guys.

In terms of generational talents, all I know is that Crosby and Ovechkin are damn good players. Will just have to take some time and see how their careers continue to go.

FlareKnight is online now  
Old
06-22-2008, 10:44 PM
  #91
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Didn't AO win the ROY over him and now they each have a Hart trophy? Is his impact even bigger than AO's on the ice? Or would you say both are generational talents?
I think that do what they want, when they want description of a generational talent is pretty unfair. It's not like Gretzky and Lemieux were never shut down in their careers. It happens.

The thing with Crosby and Ovechkin is Crosby gets his name on the scoresheet, but it doesn't seem like he can control the pace of a game just yet. Ovechkin has way more of a wow factor because his athleticism is always on display, but he's still very raw. For my money, I thought Zetterberg was way more dominant than either of these guys in the playoffs. That guy looked like he always had the puck.

Stephen is online now  
Old
06-22-2008, 10:49 PM
  #92
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,453
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think that do what they want, when they want description of a generational talent is pretty unfair. It's not like Gretzky and Lemieux were never shut down in their careers. It happens.

The thing with Crosby and Ovechkin is Crosby gets his name on the scoresheet, but it doesn't seem like he can control the pace of a game just yet. Ovechkin has way more of a wow factor because his athleticism is always on display, but he's still very raw. For my money, I thought Zetterberg was way more dominant than either of these guys in the playoffs. That guy looked like he always had the puck.
Crosby is a guy who uses his hockey sense and hockey IQ to dominate a game. Ovechkin is the flashier player, playing a power-type of game, using power, pure skill, finese to create chances while being defensively solid.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 10:59 PM
  #93
Acekicker123
Registered User
 
Acekicker123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,512
vCash: 500
Let's reunite the Schenn brothers

Acekicker123 is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:04 PM
  #94
Acekicker123
Registered User
 
Acekicker123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,512
vCash: 500
Thoughts on which teams will at the top of lottery when it's all said and done?

My "Bottom" Eight:

1- Florida Panthers
2- Atlanta Thrashers
3- Tampa Bay Lightning
4- New York Islanders
5- St. Louis Blues
6- Toronto Maple Leafs
7- Los Angeles Kings
8- Columbus Blue Jackets

Acekicker123 is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:25 PM
  #95
Snipeshow
Registered User
 
Snipeshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Newmarket, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acekicker123 View Post
Thoughts on which teams will at the top of lottery when it's all said and done?

My "Bottom" Eight:

1- Florida Panthers
2- Atlanta Thrashers
3- Tampa Bay Lightning
4- New York Islanders
5- St. Louis Blues
6- Toronto Maple Leafs
7- Los Angeles Kings
8- Columbus Blue Jackets
No way the Blues are that low, IMO.

Snipeshow is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:32 PM
  #96
Marf
Registered User
 
Marf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipeshow View Post
No way the Blues are that low, IMO.
I 2nd that. They will have a big jump in improvment this year.

Marf is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:37 PM
  #97
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,058
vCash: 133
I can see them as a fringe playoff team this year. Dont think its their season to fully break out just yet. Too many of their top prospects are defensemen, and we all know dmen take a little longer to develop than forwards

iPunch is online now  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:37 PM
  #98
Saul
S'all Good Man
 
Saul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,787
vCash: 500
As teams currently stand:

1. Atlanta
2. New York Isle
3. Florida
4. Toronto
5. Buffalo
6. Vancouver
7. Tampa Bay
8. St. Louis

Saul is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:48 PM
  #99
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,453
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipeshow View Post
No way the Blues are that low, IMO.
Agreed. Neither will Tampa Bay Lightnings, LA Kings, and the Columbus Blue Jackets. I can see alot of changes within the rosters of these 3 teams, and could become playoff contenders.

New York Islanders, Toronto Maple Leafs, and the Atlanta Thrashers are going to be bottom 5-4 in the league by the end of the season, IMHO. Especially if Sundin doesn't return.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline  
Old
06-22-2008, 11:54 PM
  #100
iPunch
Leafs Fan
 
iPunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,058
vCash: 133
1 - Long Island
2 - Florida
3 - Atlanta
4 - Toronto
5 - Tampa Bay
6 - Los Angeles
7 - Buffalo
8 - Nashville
9 - Columbus
10 - St Louis

iPunch is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.