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Canucks Claim Kyle Wellwood

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Old
06-26-2008, 01:06 AM
  #476
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I think the people criticizing Nonis have to think about that the waiver options that were available weren't the ones that we saw yesterday such as Kyle Wellwood. I'm pretty positive that if Nonis was presented the chance to acquire players of his caliber he would of brought them in easily. Just my 2 cents.

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06-26-2008, 01:29 AM
  #477
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There's a flip side to that, though. People were frustrated when Nonis went after Isbister last year. Many of the some reactions. But the fact is, Isbister was never a part of the offensive puzzle and was unfairly targeted. He was brought in to add size to the bottom 6 and he wasn't that bad at it.
I agree about Isbister, any expectations over him being a decent fourth liner were expecting too much, but over the past few years the Canucks have tried a lot of band-aid type solutions to fill holes on the team. Some of them turned out well but weren't suited for the role they were in (Pyatt, Bulis, etc.) and others were flops (Beech, Ouellete, etc.). But other than Carter the band-aids weren't really guys who had ceilings that were very high. Bulis and Pyatt were brought in as top-6 options but even though both performed well they were never good enough for that role on a team that was starving for offense. It's not as though he was going for the Mike Ribeiros or the Radim Vrbatas. Wellwood is that type of player.

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But a soft, lazy, 1-dimensional player can really only function in the top 6. Can you see him being successful on a great 3rd checking line? So to give him a fair chance, that means you have to invest big minutes. If you are willing to invest big minutes, that means you haven't filled those spots with anyone else. Which brings me back to the double standard of the Nonis / Brunnstrom criticisms.

If Wellwood is part of the puzzle, and is indeed on a 1-way contract and considered a low-risk training camp make or break, that means the puzzle hasn't been assembled.
I don't think you'll see (or at least I hope you won't) see Wellwood given a top-6 spot. I think a reasonable expectation would see him as a fourth line PP specialist. On the NHL board Beeker mentioned a line of Pyatt-Wellwood-Pettinger, which would give him two defensively responsible big bodies that can put the puck in the net.

Guaranteeing him minutes in the top-6 is a recipe for disaster because there is a big chance that he's not cut out for it.

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06-26-2008, 01:37 AM
  #478
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This coming from someone with a cat for an avatar.
Cats are excellent, and you yourself have a cat avatar hypocrite.

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06-26-2008, 01:41 AM
  #479
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Tony Gallagher moved to Toronto? YES!!!!!

Hahaha

I wonder who or what his precious is.

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06-26-2008, 01:43 AM
  #480
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Hahaha

I wonder who or what his precious is.
Mike Gillis.

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06-26-2008, 02:04 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Ok you can't just throw that statement up there. Explain to us why you think so.
He is better than any current roster players. Being a Canucks fan is embarassing with people so angry about claiming a 25 year old player who can rack up points off of waivers.

Sick pickup. I was hoping we'd claim him.

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06-26-2008, 02:06 AM
  #482
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Cats are excellent, and you yourself have a cat avatar hypocrite.
Ummm no it's a Holland based flag.

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06-26-2008, 02:14 AM
  #483
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Ummm no it's a Holland based flag.

That's embarassing.

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06-26-2008, 02:25 AM
  #484
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That's embarassing.
Hup...hup...

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06-26-2008, 02:33 AM
  #485
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I don't think you'll see (or at least I hope you won't) see Wellwood given a top-6 spot. I think a reasonable expectation would see him as a fourth line PP specialist. On the NHL board Beeker mentioned a line of Pyatt-Wellwood-Pettinger, which would give him two defensively responsible big bodies that can put the puck in the net.

Guaranteeing him minutes in the top-6 is a recipe for disaster because there is a big chance that he's not cut out for it.
Can you honestly see Wellwood getting bottom 6 icetime in AV's system? Where last year's mandate was more grit and size? A guy who everyone admits is 1-way with zero defensive ability, is small, offers literally zero grit and very little energy? I can't honestly see AV dressing the guy, period. But ignoring that, as some of the Leafs fans alluded too, the only way he can really function is in a top 6 role. And at the same time, if he ends up there, the team hasn't been built properly.

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06-26-2008, 02:39 AM
  #486
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Don't worry guys, I hear Roger Takahashi has a great new training method that wiil get anyone in top shape:



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06-26-2008, 02:59 AM
  #487
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Don't worry guys, I hear Roger Takahashi has a great new training method that wiil get anyone in top shape:


good call , btw, i think i would rather spend that $100 on smash bros. or mario kart

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06-26-2008, 03:03 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by TheHomelessAteMyCat View Post
Can you honestly see Wellwood getting bottom 6 icetime in AV's system? Where last year's mandate was more grit and size? A guy who everyone admits is 1-way with zero defensive ability, is small, offers literally zero grit and very little energy? I can't honestly see AV dressing the guy, period. But ignoring that, as some of the Leafs fans alluded too, the only way he can really function is in a top 6 role. And at the same time, if he ends up there, the team hasn't been built properly.
Well, I'm going in with the assumption that there may be a slight change in philosophy with respect to the make up of the bottom six in the upcoming year. The Canucks already have a bunch of guys who will be on the roster in that role (Kesler, Burrows, Pyatt, Pettinger, Cowan, maybe Hansen) and I don't see there being much flexibility in moving some of those players off the roster to change the overall mix.

I don't think you have to have 3 guys on a line that all bring the same thing to be successful either. Playing Wellwood with two gritty and speedy forwards (like Pettinger and Hansen) would make up for the loss of grit and defensive ability that Wellwood brings while still giving the Canucks a PP specialist who can play a few minutes at five on five. It's a similar strategy to what Detroit employed with Hudler, shielding him with players like Helm, Downey, etc.

Based on the forward groups we've had the past few years I think we've been accustomed to over the past couple years we've seen this big divide between the bottom six and top six, but a lot of successful teams go with three scoring lines a checking line, or four lines that all have a bit of offensive ability (Detroit had four lines that could put the puck in the net, teams like Philly, San Jose, Pittsburgh and in the past Carolina and Buffalo have had three and four lines who could score). I don't think there is one cookie cutter approach you can use in building a team. In the Canucks case, the third scoring line would be relegated to the fourth line because the Kesler checking unit plays so much.

Now I could be wrong about all of this and maybe Gillis is bringing Wellwood in to play in the top-6. But given his past I don't see him being given that type of role going into training camp. Maybe he'll even be garbage and sent down to the Moose. But if he does stick, that's the type of role I see being a realistic expectation.

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06-26-2008, 03:14 AM
  #489
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I was wondering how would he play compare to Shannon?

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06-26-2008, 03:15 AM
  #490
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I think you're obviously onto something, but I wonder if Gillis and AV are on the same page here.

Frankly, I can't see the shift in philosophy that you suggest being genuinely embraced by AV. He came in and introduced a very foreign concept to the Canucks: accountability. Work hard and be rewarded with icetime. An undersized, not-so-gritty player who busts his ass every shift pursuing the puck and has some offensive upside on the 4th line? I can see that. An undersized, zero-grit, lazy, out-of-shape, 1-dimensional player who simply doesn't pursue the puck, but does have offensive upside, getting a few minutes a game on the 4th line and reserved for PP time? I'll suggest that if we see that, AV's coaching decisions have been seriously neutered by Gillis.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I'd actually be perfectly happy going into next season with the same rotation of bottom 6 players but with significant upgrades made to the top 6.

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06-26-2008, 03:22 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by TheHomelessAteMyCat View Post
Maybe I'm alone here, but I'd actually be perfectly happy going into next season with the same rotation of bottom 6 players but with significant upgrades made to the top 6.
My main problem with that is, if someone goes down in the top 6, and all our bottom 6 guys are grinders/energy guys, we won't have anyone to replace them. With Wellwood as a PP specialist/4th line centre, atleast if our 2nd line centre goes down, Welly could step up and not look as out of place as Ritchie did in the top 6.

If we could create a 2nd scoring line of UFAs and a 3rd scoring line centered around Welly, Pyatt, and Pettinger/Raymond, I would be happy.

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06-26-2008, 03:33 AM
  #492
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I'll admit, at first when I saw that Wellwood had been picked up off of waivers I laughed, but then when I thought about it, it may not be such a bad move. The Canucks in my opinion is probably Wellwood's best option out of any team in the league--they have the potential to win, they are a team in a hockey-mad market, and they have no scoring. I know the Sedin's are probably sick and tired of dragging their annual linemate up and down the ice, but if Wellwood can stay healthy and get in shape, I think a Sedin - Sedin - Wellwood line could be very dangerous. Now to get Hossa and/or Demitra...

Of course, if Gillis gave up an asset to acquire Wellwood I would be seriously questioning his judgement, but to pick up a player with potential for free is hardly a bad move.

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06-26-2008, 03:35 AM
  #493
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I think my favourite part of this thread, other than the insane notion that picking up a player without a contract off of waivers will in any way impede us from picking up meaningful players on July 1st, was when Dolemite, Mr. "We Landed On The Moon!" himself, criticized this entire board for not reading before opening their mouths.

Wellwood has skills, and I think he's more offensively reliable than Ponyboy. Whether or not he can put that together remains to be seen, but there's absolutely no risk in giving him the chance to do that here. If he can't help us, not even as 2nd unit PP specialist, than we just flush him back onto waivers and forget about it, no harm no foul. He's certainly a better risk than other players we've had on one-way deals under The Nonis (Santala, Goren, Bouck, etc. Awful.). This is a team that had Byron ****ing Ritchie manning the PP point for a lot of last season, and people complain when we get Wellwood for free? Unbelievable.

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06-26-2008, 03:43 AM
  #494
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One good aspect. He is one of the very few players in the NHL (Crosby being another one of them) who can skate at full speed (albeit his full speed isn't anything to write home about) and stick handle at the same time. It is fairly impressive.

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06-26-2008, 04:07 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Tripwyre View Post
I think my favourite part of this thread, other than the insane notion that picking up a player without a contract off of waivers will in any way impede us from picking up meaningful players on July 1st, was when Dolemite, Mr. "We Landed On The Moon!" himself, criticized this entire board for not reading before opening their mouths.
Correction. I only criticize when people post without thinking as you have done here.

::edit::

For shame. There's your criticism.

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Originally Posted by Tripwyre View Post
Wellwood has skills, and I think he's more offensively reliable than Ponyboy. Whether or not he can put that together remains to be seen, but there's absolutely no risk in giving him the chance to do that here. If he can't help us, not even as 2nd unit PP specialist, than we just flush him back onto waivers and forget about it, no harm no foul. He's certainly a better risk than other players we've had on one-way deals under The Nonis (Santala, Goren, Bouck, etc. Awful.). This is a team that had Byron ****ing Ritchie manning the PP point for a lot of last season, and people complain when we get Wellwood for free? Unbelievable.
I love how people are under the impression that Wellwood is the second coming of Christ or something of that nature. I also love how no one recalls the constraints that Nonis had last season that forced him to sign scrubs. I'm calling it now. Wellwood is going to be Chouinard - Part 2.

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06-26-2008, 04:40 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Dolemite View Post
Correction. I only criticize when people post without thinking as you have done here.

::edit::

For shame. There's your criticism.



I love how people are under the impression that Wellwood is the second coming of Christ or something of that nature. I also love how no one recalls the constraints that Nonis had last season that forced him to sign scrubs. I'm calling it now. Wellwood is going to be Chouinard - Part 2.
He's not Christ, but he can help our powerplay if he's able to commit himself to it. That's a big if, obviously, but Gillis has made enough 'motivational' moves since taking over that it really doesn't seem like too big of a stretch. Wellwood still has time to get his act together, he's not a lost cause, and we wouldn't be getting him for nothing if he didn't have those question marks.

And I'm as big a fan of Nonis as you'll find around here, I was furious when he was fired. That said, he constrained himself. All the signings that held him back through his entire tenure with the team had his signature at the bottom. And even if he did need to scrape the bottom of the barrell, those guys should still be on two-way deals. Tyler freaking Bouck?!? We lucked out in that he managed to get injured and miss nearly all of that season, else that contract may have made a bad cap situation worse. Wellwood and Chouinard aren't really comparable either, as Kyle is eligible to be signed to a two-way deal and will most definitely not be signed for longer than a year, unlike Mr. Chouinard. If you mean in terms of uselessness, then who cares, he's already better that Kris Beech.

I also like the part where you called Gillis an awful public speaker.

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06-26-2008, 04:43 AM
  #497
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Wellwood is going to: (Choose the best answer):

A) Score 20 Goals
B) Get atleast 50 points
C) Get waived by Christmas
D) Compete with the Stanley Cup for layers

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06-26-2008, 04:48 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Tripwyre View Post
He's not Christ, but he can help our powerplay if he's able to commit himself to it. That's a big if, obviously, but Gillis has made enough 'motivational' moves since taking over that it really doesn't seem like too big of a stretch. Wellwood still has time to get his act together, he's not a lost cause, and we wouldn't be getting him for nothing if he didn't have those question marks.
He's softer than Chouinard and he's coming to a Conference where they actually hit AND play defense. They don't play defense in the East.

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That said, he constrained himself. All the signings that held him back through his entire tenure with the team had his signature at the bottom. And even if he did need to scrape the bottom of the barrell, those guys should still be on two-way deals. Tyler freaking Bouck?!?
If you were nonis and Naslund had already taken a hometown discount to play in Vancouver, what would you have done to reward Naslund? You can't blame Nonis for giving Naslund that contract at all. However, on the plus side he structured some of the key contracts that are expiring over the next couple of seasons to not have a huge impact on the Canucks like the Pens are experiencing now.


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I also like the part where you called Gillis an awful public speaker.
You mean the press conferences where he called people's character into question not once but twice? You don't do that in public. He's gotta learn that now before he gets himself in trouble. In Private? Sure. Talk all the **** you want but not to the press.

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06-26-2008, 04:52 AM
  #499
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He's softer than Chouinard and he's coming to a Conference where they actually hit AND play defense. They don't play defense in the East.
He has better offensive talent than Shannon, in my eyes. What team and conference did that guy happen to play for last season, I forget.

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06-26-2008, 04:57 AM
  #500
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I think you're obviously onto something, but I wonder if Gillis and AV are on the same page here.

Frankly, I can't see the shift in philosophy that you suggest being genuinely embraced by AV. He came in and introduced a very foreign concept to the Canucks: accountability. Work hard and be rewarded with icetime. An undersized, not-so-gritty player who busts his ass every shift pursuing the puck and has some offensive upside on the 4th line? I can see that. An undersized, zero-grit, lazy, out-of-shape, 1-dimensional player who simply doesn't pursue the puck, but does have offensive upside, getting a few minutes a game on the 4th line and reserved for PP time? I'll suggest that if we see that, AV's coaching decisions have been seriously neutered by Gillis.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I'd actually be perfectly happy going into next season with the same rotation of bottom 6 players but with significant upgrades made to the top 6.
I agree.. to an extent. I think our bottom 6 could still be tweaked but our main priority is adding another 30+ goals or so to our lineup, which should mostly be done in the top 6.

I am not going to criticize Gillis on this move because as many people have said, it's a free asset and it's not hindering our ability to do anything else, but I keep seeing people say "best case" he pencils in as the 2nd line C, or as pitseleh was talking about, a 3rd scoring line C. Ask yourself this though, where ever you project Wellwood being (assuming he doesn't completely flop), is he really a better option than Brendan Morrison?

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