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The "Gretzky was protected" myth.

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Old
06-27-2008, 03:55 PM
  #101
Heat McManus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
He did ask that McSorley be one of the players involved in he trade. See my scan of his autobiography above. Although his reasoning behind it is significantly different from that of the conspiracy believers...





Ummm.....Read this whole thread again from the beginning. It was you that started that....."smarty pants" it was, if I recall correctly.

I ignored it, but now that you have brought it up, I thought it should be clarified...........



Pretty insulting if you ask me since I had given nothing but my own opinion and had not belittle anyone else's.
I didn't see anything about McSorley in the scan. Am I being a total moron?

Does he mention it elsewhere in the book? I think i might pick it up soon just for a quick read.

Lol and for $0.01 it's a steal!

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06-27-2008, 04:06 PM
  #102
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The third page I scanned .....it was added in an edit so you might have to refresh the page cache.

Every hockey fan should read it.....it is a quite interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Gretzky-Wayne/...4600915&sr=8-1

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06-27-2008, 04:10 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
The third page I scanned .....it was added in an edit so you might have to refresh the page cache.

Every hockey fan should read it.....it is a quite interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Gretzky-Wayne/...4600915&sr=8-1
Found it. Thanks.

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Old
06-27-2008, 04:26 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
He did ask that McSorley be one of the players involved in he trade. See my scan of his autobiography above. Although his reasoning behind it is significantly different from that of the conspiracy believers...





Ummm.....Read this whole thread again from the beginning. It was you that started that....."smarty pants" it was, if I recall correctly.

I ignored it, but now that you have brought it up, I thought it should be clarified...........



Pretty insulting if you ask me.

And btw, any acknowledgment of the total disproval of your claim that Greztky himself "said it"....?
Originally Posted by lextune
So you believe that no one on the Bruins or Flyers or Flames etc. etc. was man enough to go ahead and line up Gretz......

I'm not talking about cheap shots, I'm talking about big, clean hits.

They were just too scared they would have to fight Semenko or McSorley.

I can hear it in the locker room now....

"Sorry guys, were just going to have to let them have the Cup. I'm not going to line up Gretz. Don't you realize that I would have to fight a big scary guy if I did that....?....I mean we made the finals, isn't that good enough?"

Yeah.....that makes total sense.

lol

You don't think this is a smartass post I was responding to?

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06-27-2008, 04:29 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
And I wasn't insulting you, just pointing out that I wasn't sure if you were using it correctly. My apologies if it offended you. Since you asked, I'm not sure about you quoting Wikipedia as gospel. As I've stated I have yet to see anything other than Wikipedia or second party sources claiming that Gretzky refused to be traded without Marty McSorley.
These forums can quickly devolve into childish insults when one's opinions are questioned or trivialized. You don't like wilkipedia or second party sources,that's fine.

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06-27-2008, 04:36 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
He did ask that McSorley be one of the players involved in he trade. See my scan of his autobiography above. Although his reasoning behind it is significantly different from that of the conspiracy believers...





Ummm.....Read this whole thread again from the beginning. It was you that started that....."smarty pants" it was, if I recall correctly.

I ignored it, but now that you have brought it up, I thought it should be clarified...........



Pretty insulting if you ask me.

And btw, any acknowledgment of the total disproval of your claim that Greztky himself "said it"....?

Said what? The implication of Gretzky's statements ("Semenko and my individual success" and subsequent gifting of a car to Semenko is fairly crystal commentary. He claims The Kings needed grit (er,muscle-especially if he was going there) and defense and so he was now an LA GM and advisor. It's laughable that any player determines what another teams needs are before they allow a trade to consummate btw.

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06-27-2008, 04:43 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
Said what? The implication of Gretzky's statements ("Semenko and my individual success" and subsequent gifting of a car to Semenko is fairly crystal commentary. He claims The Kings needed grit (er,muscle-especially if he was going there) and defense and so he was now an LA GM and advisor. It's laughable that any player determines what another teams needs are before they allow a trade to consummate btw.
That's pretty much what the case was. I don't think the LA Kings would have really balked at advice from Wayne Gretzky. As he pointed out, they were 18th in the league prior to his arrival. Gretzky had 4 Stanley Cup, 8 Hart Trophies, 6 Art Ross Trophies, 5 Pearsons, and was a few points shy of being the All-Time Points leader.

Those accomplishments earn a bit of clout. Gretzky had more pull than any other player in history with few exceptions.

If Gretzky had a guy who he thought could benefit the team it would be foolish at that point not to listen.

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Old
06-27-2008, 04:51 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
You don't think this is a smartass post I was responding to?
Since you ask, no, I don't. Seeing as that is the exact scenario we are being ask to believe is true.

And if you had asked "are you trying to be a smartass?" I would have been compelled to say "no. Sorry", and I would have attempted to withdraw and rephrase. But instead, to quote you directly; you "quickly devolve(d) into childish insults"

I am 37 years old, I don't have the time or the inclination to engage in such behavior.

I do realize though that the text based "conversations" (which of course completely lack tone and any sense of one's humor) that go on on internet forums can easily be misconstrued, which is why I mostly ignore it, but again, since you brought it up........


Last edited by lextune: 06-27-2008 at 04:57 PM.
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Old
06-27-2008, 04:54 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
Said what?
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
The man said it's true,Semenko says it's true,Sather coments on it to Brian Burke in an interview,Gretzky gives Semenko a car,Gretzky requests McSorley to accompany him in a trade to LA and everyone knew it at the time and revisionist history is a lie by you or anyone else.

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Old
06-27-2008, 05:08 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Since you ask, no, I don't seeing as that is the exact scenario we are being ask to believe is true.

And if you had asked "are you trying to be a smartass?" I would have been compelled to say "no. Sorry", and I would have attempted to withdraw and rephrase. But instead, to quote you directly; you "quickly devolve(d) into childish insults"

I am 37 years old, I don't have the time or the inclination to engage in such behavior.

I do realize though that the text based "conversations" (which of course completely lack tone and any sense of one's humor) that go on on internet forums can easily be misconstrued, which is why I mostly ignore it, but again, since you brought it up........
You exhibited frustration and posted a completely sarcastic scenario and I called you smartypants (a childish takeoff of smartass). I think you also questioned whether I had seen Gretzky play because then I'd know. Another poster questions my understanding of the meaning of a word and I protest and you found it appropriate to interject. I don't care if you're 37 (8 when Gretzky began?) 47 or 57, people can get childish when they're threatened,me included. My participation here is over as I've done my best to present reasonable evidence that Gretzky was a pointedly protected player by the Oilers and then the Kings. People can be blinded by love and reject the obvious or I and millions of hockey fans can be completely wrong. I just think it surpasses opinion. At some point this summer I'll see Paul Stewart (ex Gretzky era player and referee) and I'll ask his opinion and that of Kevin Stevens when I see him at the gym. I'll post what they say honestly and accurately regardless of the agreement or disagreement with my belief.

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Old
06-27-2008, 05:15 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
(8 when Gretzky began?)
Yeah, I actually mention that in the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
People can be blinded by love and reject the obvious
....I can't speak for anyone else here, but I for one certainly don't "love" him....hell....I hated him with a burning passion for about 20 years, lol.

So just to clarify; do you think Gretzky is lying about, or simply unaware of his "protected" status?

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06-27-2008, 05:25 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Yeah, I actually mention that in the original post.



....I can't speak for anyone else here, but I for one certainly don't "love" him....hell....I hated him with a burning passion for about 20 years, lol.

So just to clarify; do you think Gretzky is lying about, or simply unaware of his "protected" status?
More sarcasm? Unaware? Unaware? He wanted it! "Semenko helped my individual success", -Gretzky-with what?Goals? Assists? Peace of mind? "I knew the Kings needed grit and defense so I requested the inclusion of McSorley" Does he really need to spell it out? The End.

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06-27-2008, 05:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
Does he really need to spell it out?
He does spell it out.

"Something that's always hacked me off is this lie that there is some unwritten commandment that nobody in the league will hit me"

-From the scan of page 95

And no. No sarcasm.

I was asking a legitimate question, your opinion and Gretzky's words are at odds, so I ask the question.

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06-27-2008, 05:43 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
He does spell it out.

"Something that's always hacked me off is this lie that there is some unwritten commandment that nobody in the league will hit me"

-From the scan of page 95

And no. No sarcasm.

I was asking a legitimate question, your opinion and Gretzky's words are at odds, so I ask the question.
Is it possible Gretzky is referring to a League Unwritten rule? Not an enforcer/player rule?

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06-27-2008, 06:45 PM
  #115
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Another quick note about the car.....I just read in his book (now that I've dragged it out I have been leafing through all day, lol) He notes that through All-Star MVP's and Player of the Years etc., he won 13 car's over the years.

He has given away all of them.

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06-27-2008, 06:54 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Is it possible Gretzky is referring to a League Unwritten rule? Not an enforcer/player rule?
No. He talks about people hitting him as much as they can, so he says the whole idea is a lie on every level.

One of the notable hits he mentions (in my opinion), is one he took from Jeff Beukeboom ["massive but clean" in his words] in the 2nd period of the game where he broke the all time points record; "I was real woozy for a while" and he notes that he did not play much in the early part of the third because he was still a little dizzy from it. This is of course from his days as a King, for those who don't know when Howe's record was broken, (and shame on you )

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06-27-2008, 06:58 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Another quick note about the car.....I just read in his book (now that I've dragged it out I have been leafing through all day, lol) He notes that through All-Star MVP's and Player of the Years etc., he won 13 car's over the years.

He has given away all of them.
I remember reading about how pissed off Richard Brodeur was about one of them, hehe.

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06-27-2008, 07:14 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
The third page I scanned .....it was added in an edit so you might have to refresh the page cache.

Every hockey fan should read it.....it is a quite interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Gretzky-Wayne/...4600915&sr=8-1
All the people on here smack-talking Gretzky should read it. Its unfortunate how many ill-informed people are on here trying to downplay his accomplishments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
No. He talks about people hitting him as much as they can, so he says the whole idea is a lie on every level.

One of the notable hits he mentions (in my opinion), is one he took from Jeff Beukeboom ["massive but clean" in his words] in the 2nd period of the game where he broke the all time points record; "I was real woozy for a while" and he notes that he did not play much in the early part of the third because he was still a little dizzy from it. This is of course from his days as a King, for those who don't know when Howe's record was broken, (and shame on you )
I remember that game. Of course it had to be against the Oilers in Edmonton. Everyone knew as that game was approaching that it would happen that night.

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06-27-2008, 10:16 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
Oh, I agree he wasnt like other stars. But its not like he had extraordinary protection, unknown to any other player in the league.

To say Gretzky was never protected is an exageration. Any good gm will protect their stars. But to say that Gretzky re-wrote the record book becasue he was protected is even more of an exageration.
I can't speak for others in this discussion, but I never suggested or implied that Gretzky re-wrote the record book because of his protected status. I was simply commenting on what I observed during Gretzky's career and what others in the game had said about it at the time.

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06-28-2008, 06:59 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Agent Dale Cooper View Post
Clint Benedict

Nice find. So we have two.....

Actually, now that I think of it we now have the Avery rule, though that was to prevent someone from being a twit, not to give them an advantage.....

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06-28-2008, 07:03 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
Sean Avery

Martin Brodeur
By Brodeur I assume you mean making it more difficult for him to handle the puck? Both that and the Avery thing are in place to take away their advantages whereas the Gretzky change was to PROVIDE an advantage.


Last edited by eyeball11: 06-28-2008 at 07:11 PM.
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06-28-2008, 07:10 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
All the people on here smack-talking Gretzky should read it. Its unfortunate how many ill-informed people are on here trying to downplay his accomplishments.
I wouldn't assume that because people's opinions don't agree with yours or anyone else's that they are "ill-informed". Some of us watched his whole career and saw someone who didn't put up with head shot after head shot in instances that had nothing to do with evasion.

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06-28-2008, 09:25 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
I am 37 years old, I don't have the time or the inclination to engage in such behavior.
Yet anything other than your firmly-held beliefs is "conspiracy theory." The thread-starter had a nice, leading title ending with the term, "myth."




The Montreal Canadiens brought in John Ferguson to "protect" (for want of a better word) Jean Beliveau. Some players ignored the potential threat, and still made runs at Beliveau. On one such occasion, Beliveau slapped down his opponent soundly, and there was no need to call for backup. JF, of course, had other dimensions, which served the Canadiens well as a "multi-faceted toughguy."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lextune View Post
He notes that through All-Star MVP's and Player of the Years etc., he won 13 car's over the years.

He has given away all of them.
Was Lee Fogolin fortunate enough to given keys to a shiny new LeSabre?

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06-28-2008, 10:20 PM
  #124
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How many times have guys like Sakic, and Lidstrom been rocked?

Smart players are very tough to hit. I know when I played there were always guys who I just couldn't hit. Now I was no star hitter or anything but I can tell you that people who move east/west were very tough for me to hit.

To suggest that a team would reduce their chances of winning by not playing physical because of some "code" is ridiculous.

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06-28-2008, 10:37 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
How many times have guys like Sakic, and Lidstrom been rocked?

Smart players are very tough to hit. I know when I played there were always guys who I just couldn't hit. Now I was no star hitter or anything but I can tell you that people who move east/west were very tough for me to hit.

To suggest that a team would reduce their chances of winning by not playing physical because of some "code" is ridiculous.
Definitely.

I'd like to add that players become more cautious when trying to hit someone they have had trouble hitting before.

Being elusive can cause players to give you just as much space as being dirty.

I recall when I was in university, there was small forward playing for another school that was incredibly tough to hit. After a while of making guys look foolish, it seems liked people stopped even trying to hit him. I have no doubt they WANTED to hit him, but the risk of being caught out of position probably discouraged them from trying.

I think that's pretty much what was going on with Gretzky.

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