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Old
06-24-2008, 02:21 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Buddhaful View Post
I'm pretty sure Turris plays primarily on the half-wall during the power play. That is what I remember from watching Wisconcin, the International tournaments, and his brief 3 game stint with the Coyotes.

This is very good because as you alluded to, we are stocked with skill at the point, and Turris will slot perfectly into Vrbata's role on the PP.
I can't actually remember what role he played from what I've seen myself, but I swear I was reading all about his ability on the point, somewhere. hmmm... well if you actually remember, than that's good enough, for me. Either way, it doesn't change the point of the argument.

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06-24-2008, 02:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Are you including Jokinen, and Carcillo's innevitable raise? I don't really think there can be anyway we won't be pretty easily over the floor. Six and a half million for Jovo, five and a half million for Jokinen, four and a half million for both Doan and Bryzgalov, and four million for Morris should go a long way. In fact, that's 25 million right there. Where are you getting this 29.9 total number?
Link


Quibble about the accuracy of that site all you will but the numbers look right. Carcillo is not included but Olli is... so danny gets $2 we still have 8 to go, Porters cap hit will be similar to petes if not less so figure .750 million 7.25 to go... sign a big name defender for 4 we still have 3.25 to go with three roster spots, we will make it easily but will we make it smartly or will we sign stiffs like York and abby?


Last edited by PhoPhan: 06-24-2008 at 02:35 PM. Reason: fixed link
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Old
06-24-2008, 02:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TJinAZ View Post
Pickup Orpik and Stuart.
I think we would have a shot at Stuart since he seems to be rooted in LA but does not want to play there. He will cost 4m or more per and likely want a 5yr deal. Orpik would be great to have, young and a hitter and shot blocker. Also Commodore comes to mind if for no other reason but the playoff hair.
I'm not a huge fan of Orpik or Commodore. I think Orpik's hit are often very questionable. Especially the one that broke Erik Cole's neck. And I don't think he backs it up quite as often as he should. A lot of what Commodore does rubs me the wrong way, too. He seems to pick his spots a little too much when it comes to the physical stuff, and I don't think he's ever fought anyone close to his size. I'm no expert on either guy, but from what I've seen, I don't like them. It's not so much about their game, though, as it is how I feel about the way they behave in the extracurriculars.

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06-24-2008, 02:28 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosthoffa View Post
Link


Quibble about the accuracy of that site all you will but the numbers look right. Carcillo is not included but Olli is... so danny gets $2 we still have 8 to go, Porters cap hit will be similar to petes if not less so figure .750 million 7.25 to go... sign a big name defender for 4 we still have 3.25 to go with three roster spots, we will make it easily but will we make it smartly or will we sign stiffs like York and abby?
I had no idea Turris and Lisin played for free. That is awesome.



You know there is already a thread with cap numbers on this very message board.

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06-24-2008, 02:29 PM
  #55
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JC is regularly updating the offseason thread with cap numbers:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=501723


Cap floor shouldn't be an issue.

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06-24-2008, 02:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by yakko View Post
I had no idea Turris and Lisin played for free. That is awesome.



You know there is already a thread with cap numbers on this very message board.
IF Lisin makes the team out of camp his cap hit will be well below 1 mil and I am surprised to see KT's cap hit so high... bonuses I guess

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06-24-2008, 02:30 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
JC is regularly updating the offseason thread with cap numbers:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=501723


Cap floor shouldn't be an issue.
Thanks CT

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06-24-2008, 02:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghosthoffa View Post
Link


Quibble about the accuracy of that site all you will but the numbers look right. Carcillo is not included but Olli is... so danny gets $2 we still have 8 to go, Porters cap hit will be similar to petes if not less so figure .750 million 7.25 to go... sign a big name defender for 4 we still have 3.25 to go with three roster spots, we will make it easily but will we make it smartly or will we sign stiffs like York and abby?
You are looking at salaries, not cap-hits, I believe.

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06-24-2008, 02:32 PM
  #59
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using the 08/09 column that includes KT and Lisin's salary...

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06-24-2008, 02:37 PM
  #60
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Yeah, the nhlnumbers.com link only has 9 forwards and 4 defensemen listen. I'll leave the speculation for another thread as to who will fill those spots, but that $29.9 million team salary will include at least five more players.

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06-24-2008, 04:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Our team is in the position of having added all of these pieces to what was already the eleventh ranked power play in the league, last season. This despite having an overall offense ranked 21st, overall, and being ranked fourth to last in even strength scoring.

Conversly, our Penalty Kill was ranked 24th in the NHL, despite our overall team defense being ranked a much more respectable 17th. Our team is now in the position of having lost it's number one penalty killing defenseman, as well as it's number four, in that category. Matthias Tjarnqvist, our team's best penalty killing forward is also currently without a contract.

That's the postion we are in.
The stats make the Phoenix PP look a lot better than it really was over the course of the season. For a brief period of maybe a dozen games, or so, it was really hot - and that inflated the stats considerably. On most nights, especially in the latter part of the season, the dogs had a difficult time to even get set up in the offensive zone when on the man advantage. Jovo's bomb from the blueline covered up some shortcomings and helped with the PP stats.

I am not lobbying for Liles. He would not be a good fit, IMO. However, Mueller was 'decent' on the point, not 'tremendous', IMO. Jokinen will be a definate upgrade and Mueller, if he is still being used on the point, might do so on the second unit?

As you pointed out, the PK was not very effective and some of the key ingredients are not signed as of today. It will also be interesting to see who will be coaching special teams next season, with Toc heading for Florida.

Both PP and PK need to improve dramatically, if the Coyotes want to make the playoffs next season. Personnel decisions should be based on this and player acquisitions should be made with this in mind.

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06-24-2008, 04:50 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I'm not a huge fan of Orpik or Commodore. I think Orpik's hit are often very questionable. Especially the one that broke Erik Cole's neck. And I don't think he backs it up quite as often as he should. A lot of what Commodore does rubs me the wrong way, too. He seems to pick his spots a little too much when it comes to the physical stuff, and I don't think he's ever fought anyone close to his size. I'm no expert on either guy, but from what I've seen, I don't like them. It's not so much about their game, though, as it is how I feel about the way they behave in the extracurriculars.
I am not Commodore's #1 fan or anything but he did fight Colton Orr last year after Orr destroyed Matt Cullen with a huge hit. Orr is one of the better heavies out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXbm...eature=related

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06-24-2008, 05:45 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by WildCoyotes34 View Post
I am not Commodore's #1 fan or anything but he did fight Colton Orr last year after Orr destroyed Matt Cullen with a huge hit. Orr is one of the better heavies out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXbm...eature=related
I was at that game. I remember seeing Cullen's glove go flying and the girl behind me thought his head fell off.

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06-24-2008, 06:51 PM
  #64
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The stats make the Phoenix PP look a lot better than it really was over the course of the season. For a brief period of maybe a dozen games, or so, it was really hot - and that inflated the stats considerably. On most nights, especially in the latter part of the season, the dogs had a difficult time to even get set up in the offensive zone when on the man advantage.
I disagree. All power plays have highs and lows. Those stats are over 82 games. A "brief period" isn't enough to sway them that much.

Quote:
However, Mueller was 'decent' on the point, not 'tremendous', IMO.
I disagree. Compare his 22 points to Shane Doan's 27. It took Mueller some time grow comfortable, too. There is also that period, towards the end of the season, where the whole team collapsed, all over the ice. His stats were "tremendous" for a rookie, and he will only get better.

Quote:
Jokinen will be a definate upgrade and Mueller, if he is still being used on the point, might do so on the second unit?
I imagine that's the case. Jovo and Jokinen on the first unit, and Morris and Mueller on the second unit. This, of course, only makes us even better.

Quote:
Both PP and PK need to improve dramatically, if the Coyotes want to make the playoffs next season. Personnel decisions should be based on this and player acquisitions should be made with this in mind.
I pretty much agree, except I think we already have all of the ingredients for the powerplay. The penalty kill is something we are going to need to go out looking to fix with new faces.

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06-24-2008, 07:09 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I disagree. All power plays have highs and lows. Those stats are over 82 games. A "brief period" isn't enough to sway them that much.


I disagree. Compare his 22 points to Shane Doan's 27. It took Mueller some time grow comfortable, too. There is also that period, towards the end of the season, where the whole team collapsed, all over the ice. His stats were "tremendous" for a rookie, and he will only get better.
I agree with your overall sentiment, but I wanted to point out the fallacy here, mostly just to cause some trouble in one of the most tranquil periods of Coyotes fandom I can remember. Basically, it's a bit hypocritical to say a brief period of enhanced productivity for the powerplay isn't enough to sway the stats dramatically, but you should ignore the low points of Mueller's productivity at the beginning and end of the season and see that he was even better than the stats indicate. Look at the season as a whole - the lulls at the beginning and the end, and the peak in the middle - but more importantly, remember that was last season and has little bearing on next season.

Next, I don't expect to see Jokinen at the point. He has an unbelievable shot, but with Jovanovski serving the same purpose with a better passing game, I think Jokinen would be better used in the high slot. I don't expect to see him to be Tomas Holmstrom, but I think his size, heavy shot and vision would be well-utilized in the middle.

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06-24-2008, 07:19 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I disagree. All power plays have highs and lows. Those stats are over 82 games. A "brief period" isn't enough to sway them that much.
The STATS you quoted look alright. I am not arguing that point. I watched all but three Coyotes games last season and I am of the opinion that the PP was not as good as the rank (11th) might indicate. The amount of shorthanded goals against (12, 4th worst in the league) is one indication but I am basing my comment on the actual play. A good number of PP goals were fluky and overall, the Coyotes PP was not as organized or dangerous as it should be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I disagree. Compare his 22 points to Shane Doan's 27. It took Mueller some time grow comfortable, too. There is also that period, towards the end of the season, where the whole team collapsed, all over the ice. His stats were "tremendous" for a rookie, and he will only get better.
Well... I guess it's really nothing more than semantics. To me, Teemu's rookie numbers were 'tremendous'. Mueller's were 'decent'. Not worth arguing about.

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06-24-2008, 07:44 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Matzel View Post
Well... I guess it's really nothing more than semantics. To me, Teemu's rookie numbers were 'tremendous'. Mueller's were 'decent'. Not worth arguing about.
If a record-setting 76 56 132 season is your standard for a "tremendous rookie season", I'm afraid you're bound to be sorely diappointed by any rookie, ever.

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06-24-2008, 07:50 PM
  #68
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Not to mention disappointed every subsequent year by Teemu Selanne himself.

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06-24-2008, 07:50 PM
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If a record-setting 76 56 132 season is your standard for a "tremendous rookie season", I'm afraid you're bound to be sorely diappointed by any rookie, ever.
While hard to recognize on a messageboard, the Teemu reference was made with tongue in cheek.
It does not take a record breaking points total to consider a rookie effort tremendous, but Mueller took quite a while to get going at the start, had a very good run for a good stretch and then cooled off considerably towards the end. All in all I would call that decent - not tremendous.

Hope that clarifies my comment.

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06-24-2008, 07:51 PM
  #70
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If Jokinen takes Mueller's spot on the point, I don't see Mueller moving to the second pp unit. I would think they'd have Turris on the sidewall, and Mueller/Doan down low.

2nd pp
Morris & one of Michalek/Boedker? on the point, with Lisin, Hanzal, and Carcillo/Boedker/Rhino

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06-25-2008, 01:34 AM
  #71
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Jokinen isnt especially physical but he is awkward to handle. You can imagine a PP featuring Jokinen and Doan swapping roles to go to the net. If I were a tired defenseman who had just battled and hustled Jokinen away, the last thing I want to see is Doan heading your way for the next 30 seconds.

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06-28-2008, 03:54 PM
  #72
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Hanzal's potential?

since i don't get a chance to watch many coyotes games thought i would drop by the baord and see how many points you think Hanzal will put up under the new run and gun offence this yr? as well what you think his long-term potential (ceiling) will be? given his size do you think he can only be succesful on one of the top 2 lines asa power forward?

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06-28-2008, 04:02 PM
  #73
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Michal Handzus.

He isnt needed on the top lines to be a scorer or a power forward - Phoenix already has Mueller, Turris, Boedker for the scorers and Jokinen / Doan for the beef. Hanzal already plays a shut-down role on the third line - think Jordan Staal on the Pens.

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06-28-2008, 04:18 PM
  #74
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In the right situation I think he could be a 30-goal scorer but as the other poster said think about Staal who scored 29 as a rookie and then moved into a defensive role.

Hanzal is a big man with loads of wingspan and great hands. Those are his two most remarkable features IMO, very precise hands and nice range with his stick.

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06-28-2008, 04:23 PM
  #75
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In the right situation I think he could be a 30-goal scorer but as the other poster said think about Staal who scored 29 as a rookie and then moved into a defensive role.

Hanzal is a big man with loads of wingspan and great hands. Those are his two most remarkable features IMO, very precise hands and nice range with his stick.
Hanzal is more of a play maker than a goal scorer. His passing ability is amazing. He will likely be in a shut down role again, but ahould have some linemates who have some offensive ability and his point totals should improve.

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