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Old
07-01-2008, 08:52 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
If you're not impressed with Jay Bouwmeester then everything I have ever assumed here is true. Maybe we should keep signing 34 year old fwds for three years.

Someone was talking about how jay isnt passionate about staying here. Why the hell would he be? Remember the last guy passionate about staying here? I do, he's in phoenix now. This is the worst organization in the NHL and there is a very valid reason they're a laughing stock. I watch this garbage team play as much as anyone else here if not more and for someone to start slagging on bouwmeester as if there is more he could be doing obviously is watching a different sport than I am.
Agree on JayBo's ability... We need to try to keep him, but if he wants out we need to dump him for as much return as we can get.

Disagree on Olli... His passion for this team was long ago spent. It was time for him to go. For his sake and ours.

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07-01-2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
If you're not impressed with Jay Bouwmeester then everything I have ever assumed here is true. Maybe we should keep signing 34 year old fwds for three years.

Someone was talking about how jay isnt passionate about staying here. Why the hell would he be? Remember the last guy passionate about staying here? I do, he's in phoenix now. This is the worst organization in the NHL and there is a very valid reason they're a laughing stock. I watch this garbage team play as much as anyone else here if not more and for someone to start slagging on bouwmeester as if there is more he could be doing obviously is watching a different sport than I am.
You're point is valid, but if players don't want to play here they don't have to sign or they can ask to be traded (i.e Jokinen). Just b/c I, 1 fan, am not gaga over a defensemen who hasn't really proved anything in my eyes as being elite. I do give him props for his skating ability which he has had all along. He is a soft player that has a personality that carries to the ice. I do not want that on this roster and would try to find the best bidder for his services and pack his bags. This team needs players that show emotion and prove their worth. Bouw got 25-27 minutes because he is the Panthers best defenseman. He's not a top 10, more or less a top 20 Dman. I don't blame him for not wanting to stay. He's played under a bad Front office which is now (after 8-12years) starting to make its finger prints on the franchise.

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07-01-2008, 09:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bure1096 View Post
You're point is valid, but if players don't want to play here they don't have to sign or they can ask to be traded (i.e Jokinen). Just b/c I, 1 fan, am not gaga over a defensemen who hasn't really proved anything in my eyes as being elite. I do give him props for his skating ability which he has had all along. He is a soft player that has a personality that carries to the ice. I do not want that on this roster and would try to find the best bidder for his services and pack his bags. This team needs players that show emotion and prove their worth. Bouw got 25-27 minutes because he is the Panthers best defenseman. He's not a top 10, more or less a top 20 Dman. I don't blame him for not wanting to stay. He's played under a bad Front office which is now (after 8-12years) starting to make its finger prints on the franchise.
I guess Lidstrom is too soft for your liking as well..........

After all the years of watching hockey I am starting to believe nobody knows what a top 10 dman is regardless of the team or fans (except detroit and lidstrom). Bouwmeester is a top 10 dman in this league and if Brian Campbell got what he got then I wonder what Jay's worth now. Moron Martin is going to have to overpay Jay to stay here because I promise you no free agent Dman in their right mind is going to come to florida and bring what Jay does.

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07-01-2008, 09:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Madhatter73 View Post
Agree on JayBo's ability... We need to try to keep him, but if he wants out we need to dump him for as much return as we can get.

Disagree on Olli... His passion for this team was long ago spent. It was time for him to go. For his sake and ours.
Maybe we can get guys like auld or boynton for bouwmeester. Wouldnt that be great???

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07-01-2008, 09:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bure1096 View Post
You're point is valid, but if players don't want to play here they don't have to sign or they can ask to be traded (i.e Jokinen). Just b/c I, 1 fan, am not gaga over a defensemen who hasn't really proved anything in my eyes as being elite. I do give him props for his skating ability which he has had all along. He is a soft player that has a personality that carries to the ice. I do not want that on this roster and would try to find the best bidder for his services and pack his bags. This team needs players that show emotion and prove their worth. Bouw got 25-27 minutes because he is the Panthers best defenseman. He's not a top 10, more or less a top 20 Dman. I don't blame him for not wanting to stay. He's played under a bad Front office which is now (after 8-12years) starting to make its finger prints on the franchise.
Oh and for the fingerprints comment. Yes, lets inherit a team that has Luongo Jokinen and Bouwmeester then in 3 short years not make the playoffs AND not have those 3 guys on the squad to keep building on. Great plan. I hope these guys get charged with murdering the franchise based off of the obvious fingerprint evidence.

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07-01-2008, 10:23 PM
  #56
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Hopefully Bouw just wanted to see what kind of money players like B. Campbell & Redden were going to get. My hopes are that he gets signed long term to around a $7 mil per for say 8-10 years. Seeing the way teams were throwing money around today and overpaying for players I don't mind overpaying for Jaybo a bit if it keeps him in Florida for 5+ years!

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07-01-2008, 10:25 PM
  #57
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There is no questioning JayBo's ability, he's the man. I absolutely love the guy and am going to hate it when we move him, but if he doesnt wan't to sign here (long term) then we are forced to seek some compensation for his services. Id hate it a heck of a lot more if he just left as an UFA next year. Assuming JBo gets moved, the panthers will have traded my favorite players (im sure im not alone in this regard)...but this is a business and we have to be rational with the limited resources we have, trading JBO may just be a necessary lateral strike to ensure that we construct for ourselves a decent future.

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07-02-2008, 12:41 AM
  #58
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I'm not sold on Zajac either. Any package from the Devils has to include Martin.

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07-02-2008, 04:09 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
Maybe we can get guys like auld or boynton for bouwmeester. Wouldnt that be great???
Auld sucks and Boynton was a throw in on the Olli deal... Ballard was the primary pickup for Olli and his grit, character and leadership alone will show that this was a good trade-off.

To compare Olli to Jaybo is like comparing Hagman to Jagr... They aren't in the same league. Jaybo's way more valuable than Olli and carries less baggage.

But, if he wants out you have to trade him. No team needs a player that's on the roster against their will. I'd hate to see him go, but thankfully no player is irreplaceable.


Last edited by Acadmus: 07-02-2008 at 07:09 AM. Reason: trolling language at start.
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07-02-2008, 07:22 AM
  #60
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Well...Bouw wasn't signed to an extension, signed to an offer sheet, or traded yesterday.

I don't know if it's a good sign or a bad one. It could be Martin didn't trade him because there's more of a possibility of getting a long term deal done. Or could be he's waiting to deal Bouw for a couple of 4th line forwards and a 2nd rounder. Or maybe he's just setting up to shock us all YET AGAIN!

We didn't think he'd make noise at the 2007 draft, he acquired Vokoun for draft picks. We didn't think he'd ever get an enforcer, he got Belak at the deadline (though too late). We didn't think he'd take the GM's job when fired as coach - he did. We didn't think he'd manage to get all our prospects signed that were going to be draft re-eligible - he did. We didn't think he'd hire a coach that was any different from himself - he did. We thought he'd get an awesome return on Olli - the jury's still out on that one, but it looks like he didn't. We didn't think he'd sign any free agents - he made one of the better signings in team history.

So...what's next? JBo's still a big ?, and the unrestricted free agents we wanted to keep, Montador and Cullimore, are both still unsigned by any team despite great seasons and the perception Monty would definitely be in demand.

As I said yesterday - let's sit back and see how all this pans out.

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07-02-2008, 08:06 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
Well...Bouw wasn't signed to an extension, signed to an offer sheet, or traded yesterday.

I don't know if it's a good sign or a bad one. It could be Martin didn't trade him because there's more of a possibility of getting a long term deal done. Or could be he's waiting to deal Bouw for a couple of 4th line forwards and a 2nd rounder. Or maybe he's just setting up to shock us all YET AGAIN!

We didn't think he'd make noise at the 2007 draft, he acquired Vokoun for draft picks. We didn't think he'd ever get an enforcer, he got Belak at the deadline (though too late). We didn't think he'd take the GM's job when fired as coach - he did. We didn't think he'd manage to get all our prospects signed that were going to be draft re-eligible - he did. We didn't think he'd hire a coach that was any different from himself - he did. We thought he'd get an awesome return on Olli - the jury's still out on that one, but it looks like he didn't. We didn't think he'd sign any free agents - he made one of the better signings in team history.

So...what's next? JBo's still a big ?, and the unrestricted free agents we wanted to keep, Montador and Cullimore, are both still unsigned by any team despite great seasons and the perception Monty would definitely be in demand.

As I said yesterday - let's sit back and see how all this pans out.
Well said. Really, if you analyze JM he's had more good moves than bad ones. Let me take a stab at this one:

Good
+Vokoun Trade
+Long term extensions (Horton, Weiss, Allen)
+McLean signing
+Hiring good coach (on paper)
+Bertuzzi trade for Matthias

Bad
-Jokinen trade (at least right now)
-Not surrounding Jokinen with better players (i.e. 1st line winger)

Neutral
*Not getting enforcer soon enough (got one, just not soon enough)
*Stumpel fiasco. Had every reason to resign him, didn't pan out and bought him out
*Dvorak, Zednik signings. Both serve a purpose but not the signings everyone here wanted

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07-02-2008, 08:32 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I'm not sold on Zajac either. Any package from the Devils has to include Martin.
Any deal with the Devils has to include Parise. Thats why I keep saying Parise for Bouw straight up. Both players are very young, devils get their #1 Dman they need, we get the scoring we need.

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07-02-2008, 08:37 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
Well...Bouw wasn't signed to an extension, signed to an offer sheet, or traded yesterday.

I don't know if it's a good sign or a bad one. It could be Martin didn't trade him because there's more of a possibility of getting a long term deal done. Or could be he's waiting to deal Bouw for a couple of 4th line forwards and a 2nd rounder. Or maybe he's just setting up to shock us all YET AGAIN!

We didn't think he'd make noise at the 2007 draft, he acquired Vokoun for draft picks. We didn't think he'd ever get an enforcer, he got Belak at the deadline (though too late). We didn't think he'd take the GM's job when fired as coach - he did. We didn't think he'd manage to get all our prospects signed that were going to be draft re-eligible - he did. We didn't think he'd hire a coach that was any different from himself - he did. We thought he'd get an awesome return on Olli - the jury's still out on that one, but it looks like he didn't. We didn't think he'd sign any free agents - he made one of the better signings in team history.

So...what's next? JBo's still a big ?, and the unrestricted free agents we wanted to keep, Montador and Cullimore, are both still unsigned by any team despite great seasons and the perception Monty would definitely be in demand.

As I said yesterday - let's sit back and see how all this pans out.
To counter the point that I post nothing that heaps praise upon JM, I give you this link.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/blogs/c...job_by_gm.html

Of course it's Biggane and he's an idiot (except when he agrees with me) and it's obvious now that he has sold his soul to THE HOCKEY DEVIL .
And regardless what Biggane says, JM still needs to trade for a scoring line center, resolve the Bouwmeester situation and explain what positive purpose it serves that Peltonen is still on the roster.

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07-02-2008, 08:50 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
I guess Lidstrom is too soft for your liking as well..........

After all the years of watching hockey I am starting to believe nobody knows what a top 10 dman is regardless of the team or fans (except detroit and lidstrom). Bouwmeester is a top 10 dman in this league and if Brian Campbell got what he got then I wonder what Jay's worth now. Moron Martin is going to have to overpay Jay to stay here because I promise you no free agent Dman in their right mind is going to come to florida and bring what Jay does.
Good point on Lidstrom. If Bouwmeester is soft, what are the rest of our defensman? You can't get everything you want from each d-man. If a guy hits and gets a few penalties for it -- Salei, Mezei -- he's "costing us games." Having watched Bou's development I think he's far from soft. He's not going to tear anyone's head off, but he does hit people often.

Let's all not justify getting rid of another player by making up idiotic assessments of his game.


Last edited by Pukboy5kroner: 07-02-2008 at 09:39 AM.
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07-02-2008, 09:02 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
Well...Bouw wasn't signed to an extension, signed to an offer sheet, or traded yesterday.

I don't know if it's a good sign or a bad one. It could be Martin didn't trade him because there's more of a possibility of getting a long term deal done. Or could be he's waiting to deal Bouw for a couple of 4th line forwards and a 2nd rounder. Or maybe he's just setting up to shock us all YET AGAIN!

We didn't think he'd make noise at the 2007 draft, he acquired Vokoun for draft picks. We didn't think he'd ever get an enforcer, he got Belak at the deadline (though too late). We didn't think he'd take the GM's job when fired as coach - he did. We didn't think he'd manage to get all our prospects signed that were going to be draft re-eligible - he did. We didn't think he'd hire a coach that was any different from himself - he did. We thought he'd get an awesome return on Olli - the jury's still out on that one, but it looks like he didn't. We didn't think he'd sign any free agents - he made one of the better signings in team history.

So...what's next? JBo's still a big ?, and the unrestricted free agents we wanted to keep, Montador and Cullimore, are both still unsigned by any team despite great seasons and the perception Monty would definitely be in demand.

As I said yesterday - let's sit back and see how all this pans out.
My bet is that J-Bo is likely traded to a Canadian team today, or signed to an offer sheet. If it is trade, Ottawa surprisingly is the most logical trading partner given what they need and who they have to trade. A blockbuster, multi-player swap between these teams would actually make some sense, since each has what the other needs to make it work both in terms of players and available cap space.

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07-02-2008, 09:06 AM
  #66
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Bouwmeester is not "soft." He doesn't hit like Pronger or Phaneuf, who he's always in the same sentence with it seems. He does the play the body but, like Lidstrom, he's more of a positional player. He has all the makings of a great defenseman and he's still only in his mid-20s.

I love Jay, but he doesn't want to be here then by all means send him where he wants to go. You don't want him poisoning the rest of the team with moping or a negative attitude. I think the Panthers are doing all they can to surround him with good young defensemen (Allen, Welch, & now Ballard). Our forward situation, which I don't know how much it means to Jay, will be resolved based on the play of our top prospects. Period. We're not going to sign Sundin or Hossa or Jagr to be the savior, though on a 1-2 year deal it would be worth Sundin or Jagr even at a high cost. I'm not sure if signing Stillman will be enough, but it sure was a smart move IMO as Cory can really help out the young guys up front.

It's eerily quiet on the Bouwmeester front. But the fact that no one signed him to an offer sheet makes me think Jay is not going to let the Panthers match w/o an agreement that they won't, which means trade. I am hoping with the moves made it'll be enough to get the long-term deal done though.

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07-02-2008, 11:17 AM
  #67
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It's hard to say what's going to happen with Bouw. There were rumors yesterday about the Senators talking trade with Martin, but nothing else came of it. Other than that it has been extremely quiet and I am somewhat surprised that nobody has signed him to an offer sheet yet. I really hope that Martin can lock him up to a multi-year deal ASAP but if not you can bet your ass that teams are going to start using the offer sheet and if thats the case I'd much rather make a trade that will make the roster better and deeper.

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07-02-2008, 11:23 AM
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Pitkanen signs 3 years, $4 million with Carolina. Should be somewhat of a benchmark for Bouwmeester, as they have both been compared and contrasted since the day they were drafted.

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07-02-2008, 11:43 AM
  #69
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Bouw will easily get over 4.

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07-02-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate The Great View Post
Bouw will easily get over 4.
I agree. Hopefully somewhere between Pitkanen money and Green money.

If he gets greedy, he can get somewhere between Green money and Redden money.

If he gets REALLY greedy he's asking for somewhere between Redden money and Campbell money.

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07-02-2008, 12:59 PM
  #71
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I agree. Hopefully somewhere between Pitkanen money and Green money.

If he gets greedy, he can get somewhere between Green money and Redden money.

If he gets REALLY greedy he's asking for somewhere between Redden money and Campbell money.
It would be a steal, in today's market, to lock up Bou to a contract similiar to Reddens or Campbell's. I doubt he'd sign a long term deal like that, but hopefully I'm wrong.

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07-02-2008, 01:18 PM
  #72
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If he doesn't want to be here, then he doesn't want to be here. He's a great defenseman who'll continue to develop and will be sorely missed here. He has some faults, but everyone does, and his are very few. I'd love for him to stay, but it unfortunately may not happen.

If he doesn't want to stay, then I don't blame him. If that is the case, though, I'd rather see him go for a GOOD package. Not sure what that'd be, but I'd be happy with a Vermette, Meszaros, and 1st.

Or...if he's going to sign an offer sheet, for some reason, that's too much for the team, I'd be happy with the 4 1sts. (We can then trade them to the team with the number pick for Tavares. )

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07-02-2008, 01:31 PM
  #73
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My bet is that J-Bo is likely traded to a Canadian team today, or signed to an offer sheet. If it is trade, Ottawa surprisingly is the most logical trading partner given what they need and who they have to trade. A blockbuster, multi-player swap between these teams would actually make some sense, since each has what the other needs to make it work both in terms of players and available cap space.
I like your thinking

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07-02-2008, 01:34 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
If he doesn't want to be here, then he doesn't want to be here. He's a great defenseman who'll continue to develop and will be sorely missed here. He has some faults, but everyone does, and his are very few. I'd love for him to stay, but it unfortunately may not happen.

If he doesn't want to stay, then I don't blame him. If that is the case, though, I'd rather see him go for a GOOD package. Not sure what that'd be, but I'd be happy with a Vermette, Meszaros, and 1st.

Or...if he's going to sign an offer sheet, for some reason, that's too much for the team, I'd be happy with the 4 1sts. (We can then trade them to the team with the number pick for Tavares. )
That's a great idea!

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07-02-2008, 02:07 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
If he doesn't want to be here, then he doesn't want to be here. He's a great defenseman who'll continue to develop and will be sorely missed here. He has some faults, but everyone does, and his are very few. I'd love for him to stay, but it unfortunately may not happen.

If he doesn't want to stay, then I don't blame him. If that is the case, though, I'd rather see him go for a GOOD package. Not sure what that'd be, but I'd be happy with a Vermette, Meszaros, and 1st.

Or...if he's going to sign an offer sheet, for some reason, that's too much for the team, I'd be happy with the 4 1sts. (We can then trade them to the team with the number pick for Tavares. )
If an offer sheet is how he goes, and Jaques doesn't use some of the room we'll have under the cap to replace Jay, we might not have to trade for that 1st overall.

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