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Old
07-03-2008, 02:17 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
Is this a scientific or cultural/religious belief?
Cultural/religious.

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
I duno about practising but I imagine that Khabibulin is a Muslim.
Any reason?

I know Yekaterinburg has a signinficant population, but is there any other reason?

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:21 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josetheodore View Post
Guys that wear crosses that I've noticed:

Madden
Elias
Ovechkin
Mike Richards
Arnott
I think Pominville does too, unless it's just a gold chain

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:24 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
Any reason?

I know Yekaterinburg has a signinficant population, but is there any other reason?
Khabibulin is a Muslim Tartar surname.

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:25 PM
  #80
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Penguins, like most NHL teams, keep religion a private matter

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08068/863587-61.stm

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
Khabibulin is a Muslim Tartar surname.
very good reason.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are extremely similiar when it comes to DNA or whatever. Ashkenazi Jews ( Central/Eastern European) differ big time from native European populations and their closest relatives are Sephardic and Yemenite Jews.

If your mother is Jewish you are of Jewish ethnicity, that's a must. However if you are a convert to Judiasm or your mother's a convert you are not considered to be ethnic Jewish.
What if someone's mother's mother was a convert? Would that person then be Jewish? Well, let's look at the person's mother. Her mother was a convert, so she must not be ethnically Jewish. Therefore the subject person isn't ethnically Jewish.

Now if you trace that back to the beginnning of Judaism, there must have been a first Jew. Someone who wasn't born Jewish, but then became a Jew. Therefore, all of that person's descendents aren't ethnically Jewish. In summary, it means that there really aren't any ethnic Jews.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:24 PM
  #83
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Jeff Halpern is Jewish. I know in the past he has been scratched for certain games during either Passover or Hanukkah so that he could spend time with his family.

This may be interesting to some..

http://www.jewsinsports.org/

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CarolinaCapsFan View Post
Jeff Halpern is Jewish. I know in the past he has been scratched for certain games during either Passover or Hanukkah so that he could spend time with his family.

This may be interesting to some..

http://www.jewsinsports.org/
thanks, man.

For the lazy folk:

B
Ball, Rudi
Berenzweig, Andy "Bubba"
Bettman, Gary
Birbraer, Max
Brooks, Ross
Buller, Hy
C
Cammalleri, Mike
D
DeCosta, Sara
Duberman, Justin
Dubinsky, Steve
F
Friedman, Doug
G
Gardner, Greg
H
Halpern, Jeff
Hart, Cecil "Cece"
Hartman, Mike
Hatskin, Ben
I
Ing, Peter
Ironstone, Joe "Kelly"
Israel, Aaron
K
Kaminsky, Max
L
Labovitch, Max
Levinsky, Alex "Mein Boy"
Liapkin, Yuri
Lichtenhein, Samuel
Littman, David
N
Nemirovsky, David
P
Plager, Bob
R
Richmond, Steve
Roberts, Moe
Rothschild, Sam
S
Schneider, Mathieu
Simon, Todd
Steadman, Samuel
Stern, Ronnie
U
Ullman, Kurt
V
Veisor, Mike
W
Weinberg, Ellen
Wilks, Brian
Winograd, Bob
Wolfe, Bernie
Z
Zaban, Carisa
Zeidel, Larry "The Rock"

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:38 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
What if someone's mother's mother was a convert? Would that person then be Jewish? Well, let's look at the person's mother. Her mother was a convert, so she must not be ethnically Jewish. Therefore the subject person isn't ethnically Jewish.

Now if you trace that back to the beginnning of Judaism, there must have been a first Jew. Someone who wasn't born Jewish, but then became a Jew. Therefore, all of that person's descendents aren't ethnically Jewish. In summary, it means that there really aren't any ethnic Jews.
If your mother's a convert you are not considered ethnically Jewish. Ethnic Jews all trace their ancestry to ancient Israel and the ancient Hebrews. " Jewish" is just a word, that's why they have sub-groups to distinguish one another based on geographical location. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Yemenite, and so on.

The inhabitants of Ancient Israel were called Hebrews, they practised Judiasm.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:38 PM
  #86
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Steve Yzreman is Jewish isn't he? I'm pretty sure that Yzerman is a Jewish surname.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:46 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
If your mother's a convert you are not considered ethnically Jewish. Ethnic Jews all trace their ancestry to ancient Israel and the ancient Hebrews. " Jewish" is just a word, that's why they have sub-groups to distinguish one another based on geographical location. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Yemenite, and so on.

The inhabitants of Ancient Israel were called Hebrews, they practised Judiasm.
for further reading, consult your nearest Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:56 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
thanks, man.

For the lazy folk:

B
Ball, Rudi
Berenzweig, Andy "Bubba"
Bettman, Gary
Birbraer, Max
Brooks, Ross
Buller, Hy
C
Cammalleri, Mike
D
DeCosta, Sara
Duberman, Justin
Dubinsky, Steve
F
Friedman, Doug
G
Gardner, Greg
H
Halpern, Jeff
Hart, Cecil "Cece"
Hartman, Mike
Hatskin, Ben
I
Ing, Peter
Ironstone, Joe "Kelly"
Israel, Aaron
K
Kaminsky, Max
L
Labovitch, Max
Levinsky, Alex "Mein Boy"
Liapkin, Yuri
Lichtenhein, Samuel
Littman, David
N
Nemirovsky, David
P
Plager, Bob
R
Richmond, Steve
Roberts, Moe
Rothschild, Sam
S
Schneider, Mathieu
Simon, Todd
Steadman, Samuel
Stern, Ronnie
U
Ullman, Kurt
V
Veisor, Mike
W
Weinberg, Ellen
Wilks, Brian
Winograd, Bob
Wolfe, Bernie
Z
Zaban, Carisa
Zeidel, Larry "The Rock"

How could Bob Plager be Jewish, but Barclay Plager isn't?

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:57 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
Steve Yzreman is Jewish isn't he? I'm pretty sure that Yzerman is a Jewish surname.
Having a particular surname isn't what makes one Jewish. I'm sure there are non-Jewish people with last names like Liebowitz, Cohen, Rosenberg & Epstein.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:58 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
for further reading, consult your nearest Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
Isn't this pretty much what I said?

Jewish ethnic divisions refers to a number of distinct communities within the world's ethnically Jewish population. Although considered one single self-identifying ethnicity, there are distinct ethnic divisions among Jews, most of which are primarily the result of geographic branching from an originating Israelite population, and subsequent independent evolutions

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
If your mother's a convert you are not considered ethnically Jewish. Ethnic Jews all trace their ancestry to ancient Israel and the ancient Hebrews. " Jewish" is just a word, that's why they have sub-groups to distinguish one another based on geographical location. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Yemenite, and so on.

The inhabitants of Ancient Israel were called Hebrews, they practised Judiasm.
Who did the inhabitants of ancient Israel descend from? And who did those people descend from? Tracing back further, you'll eventually come to someone who wasn't Jewish, which means that today's Jews aren't really Jewish.

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Old
07-03-2008, 03:59 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
Having a particular surname isn't what makes one Jewish. I'm sure there are non-Jewish people with last names like Liebowitz, Cohen, Rosenberg & Epstein.
Liebowitz is a 100% Ashkenazi surname, as is Cohen and Epstein.

The reason I brought up Stevie Y is that my old man's best friend is Jewish and that's what he told me.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:01 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post

If your mother is Jewish you are of Jewish ethnicity, that's a must. However if you are a convert to Judiasm or your mother's a convert you are not considered to be ethnic Jewish.
It makes no difference if your mother or your father is Jewish. You'd still be the same amount.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:02 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
Who did the inhabitants of ancient Israel descend from? And who did those people descend from? Tracing back further, you'll eventually come to someone who wasn't Jewish, which means that today's Jews aren't really Jewish.

You can use that argument about every ethnic group and we'd eventually be back to the first man that originated in Africa.

Remember, we're talking about Jews as an ethnos, not a religion here.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:03 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nothingasitseems View Post
It makes no difference if your mother or your father is Jewish. You'd still be the same amount.
According to Jewish culture and tradition one cannot be an ethnic Jew if his or her mother is not an ethnic Jew. Take it up with a Rabbi if you don't like it.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:07 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
You can use that argument about every ethnic group and we'd eventually be back to the first man that originated in Africa.

Remember, we're talking about Jews as an ethnos, not a religion here.
Not exactly true. Georges Laraque is black and Simon Gagne is white. They are black & white, respectively not because of a heritage such as Judaism, but because of their ethnicity. I'm sure if you trace their ancestry back millions of years, you will not find a common relative.

If all people descended from the first man, then you'd have to say that Georges Laraque & Simon Gagne are blood relatives.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:12 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
Not exactly true. Georges Laraque is black and Simon Gagne is white. They are black & white, respectively not because of a heritage such as Judaism, but because of their ethnicity. I'm sure if you trace their ancestry back millions of years, you will not find a common relative.

If all people descended from the first man, then you'd have to say that Georges Laraque & Simon Gagne are blood relatives.
Apart from converts Jews trace their ancestry to Ancient Israel and the Ancient Hebrews. They share a common background, a common language, common cultural traditions, and depending on the sub-group common last names. What else is needed in order to be classified as an ethnic group?

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:14 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
Liebowitz is a 100% Ashkenazi surname, as is Cohen and Epstein.

The reason I brought up Stevie Y is that my old man's best friend is Jewish and that's what he told me.
Ok, just because someone has a Jewish sound name it does not mean they're Jewish, in fact it's quite the opposite because European Jews have mostly Euro names, not ethnic Jewish names, a lot of them took the name of the town they came from or the profession of the family.

In the case of Yzerman which sounds very Jewish, it's actually German and it means Iron-Man I think, and to prove this, if you go look up Mathieu Schneider's profiles all over the net, you'll see that he's the highest point producer in the NHL as a Jew, if Yzerman was Jewish he would have that title.

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:15 PM
  #99
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Apart from converts Jews trace their ancestry to Ancient Israel and the Ancient Hebrews. They share a common background, a common language, common cultural traditions, and depending on the sub-group common last names. What else is needed in order to be classified as an ethnic group?
Is a Christian who plays for the New Jersey Devils guilty of a conflict of interest?

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Old
07-03-2008, 04:22 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Dima87 View Post
Apart from converts Jews trace their ancestry to Ancient Israel and the Ancient Hebrews. They share a common background, a common language, common cultural traditions, and depending on the sub-group common last names. What else is needed in order to be classified as an ethnic group?
Ethnically, Georges Laraque & Simon Gagne are different. One is black & one is white. However, Jeff Halpern and Steve Yzerman aren't ethnically different. One is white and the other is white - even if one is Jewish and the other isn't.

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