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Panthers Sign Cory Stillman

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Old
07-03-2008, 08:10 AM
  #76
Acadmus
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
Looks like he had almost similar numbers as Olli had last season, also his season ending was similar, three goals in last 24 regular season games, will that continue?

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/590654.html

JOL
I'm guessing he had a lesser role with Ottawa that limited his production?

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07-03-2008, 08:25 AM
  #77
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He still registered 19 points in final 24 games for Ottawa. By my calculation, if he keeps that pace going into next season he'll easily get 55-65 points

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07-03-2008, 08:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I don't see Detroit having the urgency to put together the required package for Bouw, especially now that they've signed Hossa. They scout well enough and develop their players well enough that they don't need to make a blockbuster trade for a guy like Bouw.

And no, we don't have our backs against the wall like we did with Jokinen, with every GM knowing he was a locker room cancer that had to be moved and also requested a trade, so the circumstances with Bouw are quite different. We will get a good package.
Lockeroom cancer is a very strong statement to make about a captain that has only stated how much he wanted to be here, and consistently produced better than any other player in our history. Bouw was not stellar during that final stretch either but he did not come out and take responsibility for his poor play and is not martin's scapegoat, so he flies under the radar rather easily. Isn't this personal trashing also against board rules by the way?

Bouw has more value because he is younger and has perceived high potential but that doesn't mean martin will get that value.

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07-03-2008, 09:05 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
JM's taking a risk with Stillman, it seems.

Now who was saying he never does that?
Taking a risk is making a bold trade or a free agent signing for a true impact player. Overpaying to get a 35 year old, who showed diminishing skills down the stretch and a minus 15 on a good team, which by the way was the absolute WORST on the entire team -- after making such an issue in his campaign to trash Ollie because of his lacking production down the stretch and plus minus. I would call that being an absolute hypocrite and incompetent.

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07-03-2008, 09:24 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
Taking a risk is making a bold trade or a free agent signing for a true impact player. Overpaying to get a 35 year old, who showed diminishing skills down the stretch and a minus 15 on a good team, which by the way was the absolute WORST on the entire team -- after making such an issue in his campaign to trash Ollie because of his lacking production down the stretch and plus minus. I would call that being an absolute hypocrite and incompetent.
+/- is a very deceiving stat. My problem with Olli wasn't his +/-, but his floating and him showing very little effort down the stretch.

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07-03-2008, 09:39 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
Taking a risk is making a bold trade or a free agent signing for a true impact player. Overpaying to get a 35 year old, who showed diminishing skills down the stretch and a minus 15 on a good team, which by the way was the absolute WORST on the entire team -- after making such an issue in his campaign to trash Ollie because of his lacking production down the stretch and plus minus. I would call that being an absolute hypocrite and incompetent.
I would think JM signed him more for his experience than anything! He has won the cup with two other Southeast Division teams in Tampa Bay & Carolina and I think will play well whenever we play those teams. He was signed in part for his offensive abilities, but more for his leadership qualities which will be very valuable to our young team! I think JM is also hoping Stillman will be there to help guide Matthias along too!

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07-03-2008, 11:33 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I don't see Detroit having the urgency to put together the required package for Bouw, especially now that they've signed Hossa. They scout well enough and develop their players well enough that they don't need to make a blockbuster trade for a guy like Bouw.

And no, we don't have our backs against the wall like we did with Jokinen, with every GM knowing he was a locker room cancer that had to be moved and also requested a trade, so the circumstances with Bouw are quite different. We will get a good package.
Olli is Locker Room cancer now? Based on what? The freaking golf tournament? Comments from the bitter GM's who were unable to match Coyotes offer? Panthers PR department really has done a wonderful job covering management's errors and blaming the lost season solely on Olli's shoulders.


Last edited by Acadmus: 07-03-2008 at 11:40 AM. Reason: trolling
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Old
07-03-2008, 11:36 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Kaptah View Post
Olli is Locker Room cancer now? Based on what? The freaking golf tournament? Panthers PR department really has done a wonderful job covering management's errors and blaming the lost season solely on Olli's shoulders.
perhaps calling him a cancer was a bit of a stretch but the bottom line was that he was subverting the coach/GM's authority, providing poor leadership on the ice and a less than ideal model for the other players. that much is pretty clear.


Last edited by Acadmus: 07-03-2008 at 11:41 AM. Reason: quoting deleted content
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Old
07-03-2008, 11:44 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
+/- is a very deceiving stat. My problem with Olli wasn't his +/-, but his floating and him showing very little effort down the stretch.
As I say often, you have to look at +/- in the greater context of both the player's offensive performance and the performance of his usual linemates and the team as a whole.

Since Olli was our team's top offensive player and had the team's worst +/- by far, it's pretty safe to extrapolate he wasn't playing a two-way game and was a liability defensively. Of course, since our defense wasn't playing that great last season either, they couldn't bail him out.

But, as you say he was floating, and that's as much a statement that his +/- does reveal the truth about his effort and game as anything else.

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07-03-2008, 12:19 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
As I say often, you have to look at +/- in the greater context of both the player's offensive performance and the performance of his usual linemates and the team as a whole.

Since Olli was our team's top offensive player and had the team's worst +/- by far, it's pretty safe to extrapolate he wasn't playing a two-way game and was a liability defensively. Of course, since our defense wasn't playing that great last season either, they couldn't bail him out.

But, as you say he was floating, and that's as much a statement that his +/- does reveal the truth about his effort and game as anything else.
We could argue Olli and his +/- to death. I'd say the fact that most of his points came on the powerplay showed his line as a whole, whoever was out there with him as it changed quite often, was horrible at even strength scoring and in as much the horrible +/-. When teams could match up evenly on D, they could focus most of their effort on shutting Olli down. I can't recall any player ever really succeeding, on any team, playing on a line with sub par talent. He did have a poor year, especially at even strength.


Anyway, he's in Phoenix now, and the best of luck to him.

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07-03-2008, 01:06 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukboy8 View Post
We could argue Olli and his +/- to death. I'd say the fact that most of his points came on the powerplay showed his line as a whole, whoever was out there with him as it changed quite often, was horrible at even strength scoring and in as much the horrible +/-. When teams could match up evenly on D, they could focus most of their effort on shutting Olli down. I can't recall any player ever really succeeding, on any team, playing on a line with sub par talent. He did have a poor year, especially at even strength.


Anyway, he's in Phoenix now, and the best of luck to him.
EXACTLY!!! We just keep beating a dead horse on this subject. Olli is gone. No longer our player and we have to deal with it. Comparing him to anyone else we aquire or currently have on our roster is pointless.

The makeup of this team is different. But what us really important is the culture. A whole different attitude on this team next year. It's a youth movement. It's time for the young guys to step up their game and show us what they're made up. I just hope for all our sake's that they are up to the challenge.

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07-03-2008, 01:41 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jok-AtTheDriveIn-en View Post
EXACTLY!!! We just keep beating a dead horse on this subject. Olli is gone. No longer our player and we have to deal with it. Comparing him to anyone else we aquire or currently have on our roster is pointless.

The makeup of this team is different. But what us really important is the culture. A whole different attitude on this team next year. It's a youth movement. It's time for the young guys to step up their game and show us what they're made up. I just hope for all our sake's that they are up to the challenge.
It isn't pointless because the two major arguments martin made for trashing and then giving away Olli was his late season performance and his plus minus, then he goes out and overpays for a guy that is just as bad in both, without the offensive production.

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07-03-2008, 01:46 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
It isn't pointless because the two major arguments martin made for trashing and then giving away Olli was his late season performance and his plus minus, then he goes out and overpays for a guy that is just as bad in both, without the offensive production.
I don't think we overpaid at all. Very few free agents received less money than this and many got more and they shouldn't have.

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07-03-2008, 01:55 PM
  #89
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I don't think we overpaid at all. Very few free agents received less money than this and many got more and they shouldn't have.
i mean, if you look quickly at the argument he's making and you don't have much background on stillman and... don't know much about hockey, you might agree. however, i think most people recognize that stillman's a quality guy. no guarantee he won't come here and be a dud but there's a reason why many objective observers on these boards (see the thread on the free agency frenzy board) as well as the homers here are including the signing in their top 5 best FA signings so far.

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07-03-2008, 02:21 PM
  #90
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I look at it like this:
Olli J: 71 points last season, 251 last 3 seasons (246 games), 1.02ppg last 3 seasons, $5.25M
Cory S: 64 points last season, 168 last 3 seasons (194 games), .87ppg last 3 seasons, $3.53M

90.1% of points last year, 66.9% of points last 3 seasons (78.9% of games played), 85.3% of ppg last 3 seasons, 67.2% of the cost.

ergo, for the money this is a good signing. Stillman had one bad offensive year the past 3 seasons due to injury (played under 50 games), and overall offensively we're getting a player who can on average provide 85% of the offense of Jokinen at 67% of the cost. He's also said to be a good mentor and character player who sees the ice well, none of which I've ever seen said about Olli except at times the character player part.

Would I rather have Jokinen? If it's the pre-January 2008 Olli, then yes. But not the Olli we've seen since.

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07-03-2008, 02:29 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
I look at it like this:
Olli J: 71 points last season, 251 last 3 seasons (246 games), 1.02ppg last 3 seasons, $5.25M
Cory S: 64 points last season, 168 last 3 seasons (194 games), .87ppg last 3 seasons, $3.53M

90.1% of points last year, 66.9% of points last 3 seasons (78.9% of games played), 85.3% of ppg last 3 seasons, 67.2% of the cost.

ergo, for the money this is a good signing. Stillman had one bad offensive year the past 3 seasons due to injury (played under 50 games), and overall offensively we're getting a player who can on average provide 85% of the offense of Jokinen at 67% of the cost. He's also said to be a good mentor and character player who sees the ice well, none of which I've ever seen said about Olli except at times the character player part.

Would I rather have Jokinen? If it's the pre-January 2008 Olli, then yes. But not the Olli we've seen since.
The biggest difference is with Jokinen on the roster, you had a legit 1st line center and a 1st line talent winger in Horton. With Stillman, you have no legit or talent center that truly belongs on a top line.

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07-03-2008, 02:32 PM
  #92
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The biggest difference is with Jokinen on the roster, you had a legit 1st line center and a 1st line talent winger in Horton. With Stillman, you have no legit or talent center that truly belongs on a top line.
Who'd we have in that role in 1996? It's not everything as long as you get balanced scoring from 4 lines and everyone giving effort. That will be the key, presuming we don't pick up another forward.

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07-03-2008, 02:33 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jok-AtTheDriveIn-en View Post
EXACTLY!!! We just keep beating a dead horse on this subject. Olli is gone. No longer our player and we have to deal with it. Comparing him to anyone else we aquire or currently have on our roster is pointless.
Is there ever really a point to posting in a hockey forum?

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07-03-2008, 02:38 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
The biggest difference is with Jokinen on the roster, you had a legit 1st line center and a 1st line talent winger in Horton. With Stillman, you have no legit or talent center that truly belongs on a top line.
Olli was not a legit first line center. In my book, you have to know how to take a face-off to be a legit center.

First liner? Yes...
First line center? No Chance...

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07-03-2008, 02:50 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
Who'd we have in that role in 1996? It's not everything as long as you get balanced scoring from 4 lines and everyone giving effort. That will be the key, presuming we don't pick up another forward.
yup. the sum can be greater than the parts. everyone gets hung up on preconceived notions about what constitutes a hockey team. sure, there are pieces you need but as you say, you can't just go down a checklist.

Quote:
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Olli was not a legit first line center. In my book, you have to know how to take a face-off to be a legit center.

First liner? Yes...
First line center? No Chance...

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07-03-2008, 03:21 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
Who'd we have in that role in 1996? It's not everything as long as you get balanced scoring from 4 lines and everyone giving effort. That will be the key, presuming we don't pick up another forward.

Awesome point + our goaltending is just as solid (without the clutch factor of Beezer, but maybe Tivo can be too if given the chance) ,and our def. is probably even better than that 96' team.

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07-03-2008, 03:25 PM
  #97
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1996 was a freak of nature and you tell me one team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals with as little skill and talent as that team. It was John VanBiesbrouck and the seven dwarfs and a lot of heart. A once in a lifetime occurrence.

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07-03-2008, 03:45 PM
  #98
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niiiiice... a playmaking LW w/ some decent mileage still left in him... i like this signing a lot.

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07-03-2008, 04:03 PM
  #99
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1996 was a freak of nature and you tell me one team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals with as little skill and talent as that team. It was John VanBiesbrouck and the seven dwarfs and a lot of heart. A once in a lifetime occurrence.

It could happen this time with a bunch of wide-eyed kids and a couple crusty vet's. I can see the headline now

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07-03-2008, 04:10 PM
  #100
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It could happen this time with a bunch of wide-eyed kids and a couple crusty vet's. I can see the headline now
Yep, right under the Banner Headline, SANTA CLAUS PROVEN TO EXIST!!!

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