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So What Exactly Is The Rangers Strategy? :dunno:

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06-28-2008, 07:02 PM
  #1
bobbop
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So What Exactly Is The Rangers Strategy? :dunno:

Not your or my strategy. What exactly are Slats, Renney and the braintrust thinking right now? This management team has been around the game a long time and certainly has a plan to deal with free agency. Considering that this is a "win now" organization (no silly posts about bagging the next year or two to get high draft picks -- ain't happening) what do you think they are thinking and how will they execute against their plan. Remember every good plan needs contingencies.

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06-28-2008, 07:07 PM
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I do think they want Jagr back but only for one year and then go for Kovalchuk when he becomes a ufa. Other than that who knows, do they think that they can compete with the redwings, penguins and other top teams next year? Who knows?

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06-28-2008, 07:32 PM
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I'm guessing one of two options:

1) Break the bank. Risk long term damage.

2) Transition year, but stay competitive.

Both free agent class and rookie class improves dramatically next summer/fall.


2008
FA class: Hossa, Malone, Campbell, Redden, Ryder, etc.

Rookie class: Korpikoski, Byers(?), Moore(?), Anisimov(?)


2009
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...09&status=none

Rookie class: Cherepanov, Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Wiikman(?), LeNeveu(?)


2010
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...10&status=none

Rookie class: Grachev(?)


2011
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...11&status=none

Rookie class: Del Zotto, Stepan(?)



I'm sure these are the facts they are weighing. What they want to accomplish in 2008-2009 and how will that effect or damage their plans for the future.

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06-28-2008, 07:33 PM
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I wish I knew the Rangers plan, so I didn't have to fret so much about the future of the franchise.

Truth be told, I think the plan was initially to retain our key free agents, but on the Rangers terms. I think the organization feels that while our free agents were key players on our team, they are not necessary franchise guys (Jagr used to be one) that you pay out for no matter what. So I would think considering the deals they have given out to Dru, Gomer, and Hank that they will be very cautious in throwing out contracts. I think they will check in on all the free agents (including our own) and if they get the feeling a player wants to be a Ranger and the number is right, they will make it happen. I feel like outside of Dru and Gomer, they signed players to relatively modest deals. I would expect more of the same this year considering they seem to enjoy having the flexibility to make moves.

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06-28-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR2330 View Post
I wish I knew the Rangers plan, so I didn't have to fret so much about the future of the franchise.

Truth be told, I think the plan was initially to retain our key free agents, but on the Rangers terms. I think the organization feels that while our free agents were key players on our team, they are not necessary franchise guys (Jagr used to be one) that you pay out for no matter what. So I would think considering the deals they have given out to Dru, Gomer, and Hank that they will be very cautious in throwing out contracts. I think they will check in on all the free agents (including our own) and if they get the feeling a player wants to be a Ranger and the number is right, they will make it happen. I feel like outside of Dru and Gomer, they signed players to relatively modest deals. I would expect more of the same this year considering they seem to enjoy having the flexibility to make moves.

Well atleast we will know most of the moves come July 1st and through the 3-5 days following that

Can't wait!!!

They could go so many freaking ways....I have no clue

Thinking the Hossa rumors will be coming soon!!!

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06-28-2008, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Both free agent class and rookie class improves dramatically next summer/fall.
I don't really see an improvement in next year's free agent class over this ones. I agree the rookie class *should* be better, but that's all projections. The only marquee winger is Gaborik, who I would want less than Hossa.

I don't want to break the bank for him, but Hossa seems like the most realistic opportunity to grab a true number one forward. No he isn't as good as a Kovalchuk or an Ovechkin, but passing on him may mean playing out the next several years with Gomez as our best forward. If you can get Hossa for 8.5 or less I think you have to do it.

Edit: The other option is simply plan accordingly in that Lundqvist is our franchise player and we will not have that franchise forward for the next period. Not the end of the world, but passing on Hossa because you expect Gaborik next year or Kovalchuk in two years is very risky. There's no guarantee aren't locked up long term way before sniffing unrestricted free agency.

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06-28-2008, 08:11 PM
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That site you linked does not list Kovalchuk as a UFA in 2009... When is he a UFA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
I'm guessing one of two options:

1) Break the bank. Risk long term damage.

2) Transition year, but stay competitive.

Both free agent class and rookie class improves dramatically next summer/fall.


2008
FA class: Hossa, Malone, Campbell, Redden, Ryder, etc.

Rookie class: Korpikoski, Byers(?), Moore(?), Anisimov(?)


2009
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...09&status=none

Rookie class: Cherepanov, Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Wiikman(?), LeNeveu(?)


2010
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...10&status=none

Rookie class: Grachev(?)


2011
FA class: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents...11&status=none

Rookie class: Del Zotto, Stepan(?)



I'm sure these are the facts they are weighing. What they want to accomplish in 2008-2009 and how will that effect or damage their plans for the future.

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06-28-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I don't really see an improvement in next year's free agent class over this ones. I agree the rookie class *should* be better, but that's all projections. The only marquee winger is Gaborik, who I would want less than Hossa.

I don't want to break the bank for him, but Hossa seems like the most realistic opportunity to grab a true number one forward. No he isn't as good as a Kovalchuk or an Ovechkin, but passing on him may mean playing out the next several years with Gomez as our best forward. If you can get Hossa for 8.5 or less I think you have to do it.

Edit: The other option is simply plan accordingly in that Lundqvist is our franchise player and we will not have that franchise forward for the next period. Not the end of the world, but passing on Hossa because you expect Gaborik next year or Kovalchuk in two years is very risky. There's no guarantee aren't locked up long term way before sniffing unrestricted free agency.
Cammalleri
Havlat
Gaborik
Komisarek
Tanguay
Sedin brothers

Now granted the likes of Eric Staal are RFAs

And, like i said our own rookie class dramatically improves as well. We may get Anisimov, Cherepanov, and Sanguinetti all in the 2009-2010 season alone. That is a great rookie class.

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06-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
That site you linked does not list Kovalchuk as a UFA in 2009... When is he a UFA?
2010.

At the old age of 27.

Which is why i am not opposed to sign Jagr for 2 years. Just as long as he plays with who we have. Not wasting money on guys to compliment him.

Because after those two years are up, we can target and go hard after Kovalchuk.

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06-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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I say there is no way Kovy becomes a UFA in 2010. Atlanta will get something from him at the trade deadline, and I am sure that team will try to sign him.

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06-28-2008, 08:19 PM
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Kovalchuk is an UFA in 2010, so is Rick Nash, assuming they are not resigned.

Quote:
Cammalleri
Havlat
Gaborik
Komisarek
Tanguay
Sedin brothers
Really not that impressive a free agent class.
Cammalleri is an undersized center that Kings fans couldn't wait to get rid of.

Gaborik can be phenomenal, but is injury prone and very streaky.

Havlat is a glass house.

Komisarek is an excellent defenseman and one tough son of a *****, would love to have him.

Tanguay's good, but not as good as Hossa.

Sedin twins are a package deal, and with Gomez and Drury, not really feasible for the Rangers imho.

And that's assuming each of them makes it to free agency, which I would say is pretty unlikely.


If we're looking to add a franchise wing in the next two years, Hossa is the probably the most realistic opportunity.

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06-28-2008, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I say there is no way Kovy becomes a UFA in 2010. Atlanta will get something from him at the trade deadline, and I am sure that team will try to sign him.
Doesn't mean he will sign with them.

Kovy will become a UFA once in his prime. He has a family. I doubt he will pass up the opportunity to get his one pay day.

IMO, players of Kovy's echelon and situation do reach free agency.

He is on a losing team.

What ever team he gets traded to will obviously have cap restrictions after trading for him, because they will be pushing for the Cup and pushing the Cap ceiling.

I believe he will chose to go on the market. And when he does i think we will have a good chance to get him. As we were fairly close to acquiring him when he was a RFA during the lockout.

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06-28-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I say there is no way Kovy becomes a UFA in 2010. Atlanta will get something from him at the trade deadline, and I am sure that team will try to sign him.
Bingo. He'll get moved at the deadline (or sooner) like Hossa did, and Atlanta will cash in. Chances are someone will offer a big package with some conditional picks for Atlanta if Kovalchuk signs with them. I don't see us being that team to be honest.

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06-28-2008, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Bingo. He'll get moved at the deadline (or sooner) like Hossa did, and Atlanta will cash in. Chances are someone will offer a big package with some conditional picks for Atlanta if Kovalchuk signs with them. I don't see us being that team to be honest.
Kovalchuk is on another echelon then Hossa.

Hossa is not a generational talent. Kovalchuk is. He is the best goalscorer in the NHL besides Ovechkin.

Perennial 50 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

What Atlanta does with him has NO barring on what HE does.

No chance he passes up possibly league max (10/year now).

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06-28-2008, 08:40 PM
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I think the trend we're seeing of superstars getting long-term deals will continue. CBJ will pay Nash, and by all accounts Kovy likes Atlanta.

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06-28-2008, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Kovalchuk is on another echelon then Hossa.

Hossa is not a generational talent. Kovalchuk is. He is the best goalscorer in the NHL besides Ovechkin.

Perennial 50 goal scorers don't grow on trees.

What Atlanta does with him has NO barring on what HE does.

No chance he passes up possibly league max (10/year now).
League max is 11 and change per year now.

We aren't in a position to offer him that, and its unlikely we'll be in a position to in a few seasons with a lot of players getting raises along the way.

If he does want to move out of Atlanta, do you think they'll simply let him walk for nothing? Hossa wanted out, so they traded him for a solid package at the deadline. They'll do the exact same thing with Kovalchuk if he wants out.

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06-28-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
League max is 11 and change per year now.

We aren't in a position to offer him that, and its unlikely we'll be in a position to in a few seasons with a lot of players getting raises along the way.

If he does want to move out of Atlanta, do you think they'll simply let him walk for nothing? Hossa wanted out, so they traded him for a solid package at the deadline. They'll do the exact same thing with Kovalchuk if he wants out.
Thats not the point i'm trying to make.

He will definitely get traded if Atlanta can't extend his services.

That much is a given.

What i'm saying is that he will probably reach free agency after that point.

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06-28-2008, 09:39 PM
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i hope the rangers arent stupid and get Hossa

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06-28-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Thats not the point i'm trying to make.

He will definitely get traded if Atlanta can't extend his services.

That much is a given.

What i'm saying is that he will probably reach free agency after that point.
Not if the team that trades for him signs him before the deadline. The point I'm making is that the team that trades for him will make every effort to sign him before he hits the open market. That team will probably be ready to give him the league maximum salary as well.

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06-28-2008, 10:23 PM
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Well I'll try and answer my own question. I think the Rangers recognize that Pittsburgh is going to be the team to beat in the East for the next several years. Even if salary cap considerations cause the Penguins to trade Malkin, he would bring back enough in trade to surround Crosby and Staal with an outstanding supporting cast. They also have a very good goaltender. So with that all said, I think that Sather and Company are going to concentrate on building this team from the back out compete with the Penguins. The Pens will be difficult to outscore. That means at least one nasty defenseman in addition to what is already on hand plus one high end player. One dimensional players need not apply. And with Staal, Girardi and Tyutin filling three of the six spots for the next two years at approx. $5MM it gives us a tremendous base to work with. Once the defense is rebuilt, then I suspect the forward lines will be populated with more north-south players who are responsible defensively (i.e. Malone, Rolston and (here's one to remember) Jay Pandolfo. I expect a team, that will be much like the vintage Devils in discipline, style, character and toughness in coming year. Only (hopefully) better.


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06-28-2008, 10:40 PM
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Interesting points....

The plan imo, is to continue to rebuild while icing the most competitive team. And the rebuild is a fluid process not a set plan.

Its nice to have Stars but TEAMS win the Cup.

Elite goal scorers are awesome. Awesome to root for, they fill seats. But how many 50 goal scorers were on last years cup winner....

zero


How about the Ducks in 07?


zero


The Canes in 06?


zero


The Bolts in 04?


zero


The Devils in 03?


zero


The Wings in 02?


zero


The Avs in 01?


zero


Of course these teams had guys who could score, but even the players with the Elite talent appear to channel that into a TEAM mentality, character.

Part their teammates, the coaching, leadership, team systems whatever.

Its a delicate balance of talent, health, luck.

One thing all those teams definitely had = a HOT goaltender and a TEAM in front of him willing and able to do all the little things necessary along the way to win each shift.

The strategy is to build a team with that winning character

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06-28-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Interesting points....

The plan imo, is to continue to rebuild while icing the most competitive team. And the rebuild is a fluid process not a set plan.

Its nice to have Stars but TEAMS win the Cup.

Elite goal scorers are awesome. Awesome to root for, they fill seats. But how many 50 goal scorers were on last years cup winner....

zero


How about the Ducks in 07?


zero



Of course these teams had guys who could score, but even the players with the Elite talent appear to channel that into a TEAM mentality, character.

Part their teammates, the coaching, leadership, team systems whatever.

Its a delicate balance of talent, health, luck.

One thing all those teams definitely had = a HOT goaltender and a TEAM in front of him willing and able to do all the little things necessary along the way to win each shift.

The strategy is to build a team with that winning character
Well to be fair, Selanne only fell short of 50 by 2 goals.

I agree with what you're saying though. I think the key is to acquire players that compliment the players and the system you already have in place. The goals will simply follow as a result of the chemistry you built.

However, I don't think the Rangers have that mentality, at least they haven't in the past. We're a big market team that attracts big market players, and we're willing to pay for them.

What I hope, is that the organization will start building for the defensive strategy that Renney is implementing. With the stance Sather has been taking with the UFA's, it seems like he is finally making a move towards that system.

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06-28-2008, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Interesting points....

The plan imo, is to continue to rebuild while icing the most competitive team. And the rebuild is a fluid process not a set plan.

Its nice to have Stars but TEAMS win the Cup.

Elite goal scorers are awesome. Awesome to root for, they fill seats. But how many 50 goal scorers were on last years cup winner....

zero


How about the Ducks in 07?


zero


The Canes in 06?


zero


The Bolts in 04?


zero


The Devils in 03?


zero


The Wings in 02?


zero


The Avs in 01?


zero


Of course these teams had guys who could score, but even the players with the Elite talent appear to channel that into a TEAM mentality, character.

Part their teammates, the coaching, leadership, team systems whatever.

Its a delicate balance of talent, health, luck.

One thing all those teams definitely had = a HOT goaltender and a TEAM in front of him willing and able to do all the little things necessary along the way to win each shift.

The strategy is to build a team with that winning character
While I do agree that you need talent, health and luck, I think it's quite clear that these teams had elite goal scoring or at least a lot of very good goal scorers.

The 01 Avs had Sakic with 54 and Hejduk with 41.

The 02 Red Wings had 4 30 goal scorers.

The 03 Devils fit into your points; but they were a heavy trapping/defensive team with an insanely experienced and terrific D-core and arguably one of the 5 best goalies in hockey history.

The 04 Bolts had 3 30 goal scorers (with a guy who won the Art Ross) and two other 25 goal guys. I think the 50 goal mark you arbitrarily put down is misleading. Elite goal-scoring is a subjective term. Compared to the offensive era, and in 03-04, 41 goals won the Richard trophy, the Bolts had two elite goal scorers and a bevy of other great goal-getters.

The 06 Canes had a 45 goal scorer (Eric Staal and I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that the guy isn't a great goal scorer) and 3 other guys with 30 goals. Now 56 goals won the Maurice Richard trophy, but let's be honest, 45 goals is an elite number.

The 07 Ducks had a 48 goal scorer (Selanne) which tied him for third in the league. They also had 4 other guys with 25 or more goals.

Finally the 08 Wings had a 43 goal scorer (Zetterberg) which put him in the top 5 for goals, a 30 goal scorer, and 3 other guys with 20 or more goals. Additionally, their two top goal scorers were 90+ point forwards.

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06-28-2008, 11:45 PM
  #24
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My point is the team that wins it all is not always the team with the MOST talented player, prolific scorer etc

Those teams won because the TEAM was the right chemistry at the right time

Thats should be the plan. Not chasing hyped UFAS. Signing the right ones for the character of the team.

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06-28-2008, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
We're a big market team that attracts big market players, and we're willing to pay for them.
Well all the teams have the same opportunity to spend the 56 mill. Yet 56 mill is still the limit.

Sather will have to show character as well. He has to work to make this work. His Golf game must suffer.

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