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The Cap - Logjam bottom 6 - Most pressing Needs

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:24 PM
  #1
I Am Chariot
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The Cap - Logjam bottom 6 - Most pressing Needs




http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=NYR


Heres the current cap info: The bottom line is they have 3.4 mill space tonight.

They also appear to be stacked with bottom 6 forwards especially when you start counting the guys from Hartford.


Its not like any of those players would bring a great return, but some could be moved to make cap room for another choice signing. Maybe a package deal with some hyped prospects...

Sather will want to save some space for next years deadline is at all possible.


Thoughts?

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:25 PM
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I think their will be a trade involving are stockpile of 3rd liners with a 2nd or 3rd rounder for a legit 2nd or 1st liner.

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07-03-2008, 09:26 PM
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If they move anyone it will probably for a second line/support kind of guy.

I don't see another "choice" player coming in right now.

I think they go for a guy with a reasonable contract who doesn't eat a lot of space (ideally only a slight increase over the guys you traded for him) and who leaves the team some wiggle room if they need to go make a trade.

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:30 PM
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I don't think those bottom 6 guys are getting traded until after training camp.

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:30 PM
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I Am Chariot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think they go for a guy with a reasonable contract who doesn't eat a lot of space (ideally only a slight increase over the guys you traded for him) and who leaves the team some wiggle room if they need to go make a trade.
So you're saying like a package deal for one guy?

Like say for instance:

To Atl: Hollweg, Prucha, Jessiman and a 3rd rounder

To NYR: Kovulchuk


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Old
07-03-2008, 09:31 PM
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Seriously, where will all these guys play? Can the team really carry all that bottom weight

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:47 PM
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Well those cap numbers are a bit deceiving as there are some guys on there that don't actually count towards our cap hit as they'll probably be in Hartford next season.

Here's a better look:

Forwards:
Gomez (7,358)
Drury (7.05)
Naslund (4)
Zherdev (2.5)
Prucha (1.6)
Korpikoski (1.02)
Dubi (.633)
Betts (.615)
Voros (1)
Callahan (.575)
Orr (.538)
Sjostrom (??)
Fritsche (??)
Dawes (??)

11 Under contract (13 needed)
Total: 26.899

Defense:
Redden (6.5)
Rozy (5)
Girardi (1.6)
Staal (.827)
Kalinin (?)
Potter (.542)
UFA/other (???)

5 under contract (7 needed)
Total: 14.469

Goalies:
Henrik (6.87)
Vally (.650)

Total: 7.52

Cap Total:
48.88
+1.54 (dead space)
-----------------------
50.428

Available space: 6.272

So thats 6.272 to sign 2 forwards and 2 d-men.

I'd assume Dawes will make around 1 mil, Kalinin around 2.

So thats 3.272 to sign a #6/7 dman and one bottom-six forward.

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Old
07-03-2008, 11:10 PM
  #8
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Hold on to the cap space for the trading deadline

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Old
07-03-2008, 11:14 PM
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Edge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
So you're saying like a package deal for one guy?

Like say for instance:

To Atl: Hollweg, Prucha, Jessiman and a 3rd rounder

To NYR: Kovulchuk

That comment made me laugh and cringe at the same time. I laughed because it was pretty darn funny. I cringe because there are people on these boards who probably believe that would almost be enough.

"I'll give that up but I'm not really interested in trading our first..."

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Old
07-03-2008, 11:27 PM
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All I know is with Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev, Dawes, Prucha etc probably rounding out the top 6, the bottom 6 better be tough as hell. Cause our top 2 are soft as Charmin.

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:47 AM
  #11
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callahan, byers, hollweg, 2nd rounder 09

vermette


the problem with ottawa last year is they lost players who will battle and create energy like schaefer and comrie....although they arent large players they did play feisty, something all of those players do.....

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
callahan, byers, hollweg, 2nd rounder 09

vermette


the problem with ottawa last year is they lost players who will battle and create energy like schaefer and comrie....although they arent large players they did play feisty, something all of those players do.....
if were giving up those players, wouldnt you rather an offer sheet

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:04 AM
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don't we supposedly have offers out to sundin, demitra, and mara? has anyone heard anything on nay of those fronts? sundin is supposedly waiting still, but what about the other guys? it'd be nice to add 2 outta the 3 of them, but it doesn't look like we have the cap space to do so without a move or most likely 2 moves depending on who it is that we can trade. even then, the problem with that is we'd be taking back some salary as well, so unless we're moving guys out for draft picks, our situation doesn't look that good to realistically sign more than 1 outta the 3, and the 1 most likely being mara since we traded 2 tyutin and backman.

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Yellot00tr View Post
don't we supposedly have offers out to sundin, demitra, and mara? has anyone heard anything on nay of those fronts? sundin is supposedly waiting still, but what about the other guys? it'd be nice to add 2 outta the 3 of them, but it doesn't look like we have the cap space to do so without a move or most likely 2 moves depending on who it is that we can trade. even then, the problem with that is we'd be taking back some salary as well, so unless we're moving guys out for draft picks, our situation doesn't look that good to realistically sign more than 1 outta the 3, and the 1 most likely being mara since we traded 2 tyutin and backman.
where is the cap space for sundin (or JJ if hell and heaven is moved)...Mara and Demitra maybe we can sneak in... I just don't see any more major signings unless we clear out... I think we can go a few million over the cap too...

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Well those cap numbers are a bit deceiving as there are some guys on there that don't actually count towards our cap hit as they'll probably be in Hartford next season.

Here's a better look:

Forwards:
Gomez (7,358)
Drury (7.05)
Naslund (4)
Zherdev (2.5)
Prucha (1.6)
Korpikoski (1.02)
Dubi (.633)
Betts (.615)
Voros (1)
Callahan (.575)
Orr (.538)
Sjostrom (??)
Fritsche (??)
Dawes (??)

11 Under contract (13 needed)
Total: 26.899

Defense:
Redden (6.5)
Rozy (5)
Girardi (1.6)
Staal (.827)
Kalinin (?)
Potter (.542)
UFA/other (???)

5 under contract (7 needed)
Total: 14.469

Goalies:
Henrik (6.87)
Vally (.650)

Total: 7.52

Cap Total:
48.88
+1.54 (dead space)
-----------------------
50.428

Available space: 6.272

So thats 6.272 to sign 2 forwards and 2 d-men.

I'd assume Dawes will make around 1 mil, Kalinin around 2.

So thats 3.272 to sign a #6/7 dman and one bottom-six forward.
I think you are pretty right
Although there has been quite a lot of chemistry change - I could see the following scenario
One thing - nhlscap has our salary overage listed from last year at 750.000 - you list the dead space at 1,54. what is the final deal here? It actually could be very imortant when the final building blocks are put into space!!!
  • Signing the above named 2 unsigned RFA forwards for around 1,8 M
  • Dealing 2-3 of our middle level forwards + ev prospect for draft pix + a defender (D Murray
would be optimal imo) or a hyped prospect - this not necessarily in one deal. This creates around 1,5 M
  • Sign Shanny at 2,2 1 year for 4th line + PP duty. Keep him rested until spring.
  • Sign Hutch at 750 (1 year) or bring up Pock as nr 7. Potter is not imo ready, not much cheaper and probably not a stronger alternative. HE WILL GET A CHANCE DOWN THE LINE

I doubt we need Colton Orr around any more - although I enjoyed some of his scruffs
This will be a hockey team now - come February at least...
WE WOULD ALSO STILL ENJOY A WEE BIT OF SPACE COME THE DEADLINE

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:31 AM
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They need a top 6 forward with size and who will hit. I'd do a Prucha plus package to attempt this. I think this is a glaring need.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:34 AM
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Hopefully they don't think Bertuzzi is the answer to this, but our lack of a Power Forward/"Top of the Line Goal Scorer" is pretty glaring

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
Hopefully they don't think Bertuzzi is the answer to this, but our lack of a Power Forward/"Top of the Line Goal Scorer" is pretty glaring
Maybe hes gonna sign Shanny. Hes often looked at as a power forward. Plays like one every now and then. Would love shanny from 10 years ago, he would be perfect right now.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:52 AM
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Maybe hes gonna sign Shanny. Hes often looked at as a power forward. Plays like one every now and then. Would love shanny from 10 years ago, he would be perfect right now.
I love Shanny, but if I had him back it would only be as a bottom six forward at this point.

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Old
07-04-2008, 06:52 AM
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I love Shanny, but if I had him back it would only be as a bottom six forward at this point.
Plus I dont see how he fits into the "younger / faster" team Glen is building since he is neither

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:00 AM
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Edge....

I don't think anyone on this board would think that trade is fair - you would have to add Pock, Betts and Orr, at a minimum, to that mix - remember, more is better.

There will be some cleaning, no doubt, but we're still only at July 4. Sather did a decent job rounding out a team this quickly. I still don't see where Prucha fits in, so there's $1.5MM and a trading chip.

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:47 AM
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I don't think anyone on this board would think that trade is fair - you would have to add Pock, Betts and Orr, at a minimum, to that mix - remember, more is better.

There will be some cleaning, no doubt, but we're still only at July 4. Sather did a decent job rounding out a team this quickly. I still don't see where Prucha fits in, so there's $1.5MM and a trading chip.
can anyone clarify exactly how much dead space is involved cap wise

I could see Bertuzzi come over for 1 yr @ 1.5 ala Selanne...bert's about a 15-25 goal guy depending on PP time and frankly between him, Dubinsky, Sjostrom, and G.Moore that would give some options in terms of size in front of the net for deflections/ and garbage goals

paying 4.5 mill for Malone doesn't make sense in today's cap but an affordable 1.5 for Bertuzzi does...at worst he matches up w/ Naslund and Gomez for a very deceptively strong 2nd line
Prucha--Dubinsky and Zherdev on the top line for maximum skill/speed

and the Drury--Korpikoski--Sjostrom combo for speed/special teams

As for the 4th line...I really think that as much as Betts brings to the team its time to build a true scoring line Callahan, Dawes, and Fritsche could do a better job but something tells me that D.Boyle is coming into Sathers mind as a target...how and why i'm not sure

Roz is already overpayed @5 mill//w/o Jagr his production could easily drop to say 30 pts for a soft 1 way scoring dman...ouch

and Redden @ 5 mill I could tolerate but 6.5 when nobody else would offer that much...Double OUch!!

But now to actually target another top salaried defender...honestly Boyle is great if he had a 2-3 year deal but his deal is longer...the cap is not guaranteed to go up... the roughly 30 m$ stacked in essentially NTC between Gomez/Drury/Lundqvist/Redden/Roz is astoundingly dangerous unless the Team integrates elite talent through the draft in the next year or 2...

Can this team challenge for the cup as is...NO WAY no power forwards and despite what traditionalists will scream DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

I CORRECT THEM....DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS

BUT POWER FORWARDS WIN CUPS!!!
since the 1993-4 Playoff Format started-Till present day
94---Graves-Messier-Anderson
95--CRASH Line-Holik-Mckay-Peluso
96--Forsberg,Deadmarsh,Yelle
97--Holmstrom, Shanahan,
98--Look up
99--Modano, Skrudland,Langenbrunner
00=Holik,Lemmy,Arnott
01-Forsberg,Ville Nieminen(check his performance that finals)
02-Shanahan,Holmstrom,
03-Langenbrunner,MAdden,
04-Lecavalier,Andreychuk,
05-
06-cole,Brind'amour,Staal,Weight,
07-Getzlaf,Perry,r.Niedermeyer,Moen,
08-Franzen,Holmstrom,

Basically w/ the exception of the wings dominant puck possession teams in which Goaltending was critical only once(M.Vernon SMythe in 1997) all other times it was the power forwards w/ the puckrushing/#1 elite blueliners(except Carolina in 2007 since they had home ice against the better oiler squad which couldn't overcome the home ice advantage in the 7th match) which made the difference.

NYR has the playmakers and the 2 way defenders
it needs a clear #1 to emerge...Maybe Marc Staal
it also needs a solid # of power forwards
Byers, Hollwegg, Orr have their place as solid reserve guys but the need for guys that can score important goals through deflections is there.... very few that have that ability and I'm really not sure if Shanahan should be entrusted to that role @ 40 he could easily have a minor inj pre playoffs turn into something chronic and then where would the team be???

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Old
07-04-2008, 08:57 AM
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Basically w/ the exception of the wings dominant puck possession teams in which Goaltending was critical only once(M.Vernon SMythe in 1997) all other times it was the power forwards w/ the puckrushing/#1 elite blueliners(except Carolina in 2007 since they had home ice against the better oiler squad which couldn't overcome the home ice advantage in the 7th match) which made the difference.
First of all, half of the guys you listed weren't "power forwards"

Anderson, Forsberg, Yelle, Modano, Skrudland, Lecavalier, Weight... these guys aren't power forwards. And the Crash Line wasn't a dominant offensive force either.

To add to that, aside from that, every single one of those Cup teams had a goaltender playing out of their mind. Richter, Brodeur, Roy, Vernon, Osgood, Belfour, Hasek, Khabibulin, Ward, Giguere... all are remembered for the perfomance they put in when their teams won their Cups. Goaltending is ALWAYS critical.

Talent wins Cups. How that talent is constituted differs from year to year.

I sincerely doubt that Dubinsky is pencilled in right now as the Rangers number 1 center.

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Old
07-04-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=NYR


Heres the current cap info: The bottom line is they have 3.4 mill space tonight.

They also appear to be stacked with bottom 6 forwards especially when you start counting the guys from Hartford.


Its not like any of those players would bring a great return, but some could be moved to make cap room for another choice signing. Maybe a package deal with some hyped prospects...

Sather will want to save some space for next years deadline is at all possible.


Thoughts?
Those numbers are not really that accurate in the end........just because you can take out Korpikoski's million as I think he goes to Hartford for another yr( by the way a Million to play in the minors.....siiiiiigh)........also there is Hollweg and some others they take into account on D that are not really there...........

so they have more in reality

But yea I agree they could move some excess forwards but really who the hell wants Hollweg for example.......Moore and guys like that I think deserve to play somewhere if it's not here

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Old
07-04-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
All I know is with Gomez, Drury, Naslund, Zherdev, Dawes, Prucha etc probably rounding out the top 6, the bottom 6 better be tough as hell. Cause our top 2 are soft as Charmin.
But are D men avg 6'2 215 Redden Staal Girardi and Kalilin

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