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The least populated city in the NHL?

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:02 PM
  #76
Ned Ryerson*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E_Godard View Post
Im not sure how you can rate the Islanders on a list like this. Its not accurate to rate us based on Uniondale. Thats one town that literally takes less then 6 minutes to drive thru.

Would it be more realistic to rate us based on the population of the entire island (7,559,372 )? Or perhaps better to base it the county the team resides within (Nassau, 1,434,544).
You have a good point. When it comes to population bases to draw from, the city a team actually plays in is extremely arbitrary.

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:16 PM
  #77
Willard
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
That's a good link, so thanks for that. However, as has been pointed out, city limit population stats aren't very meaningful. And metropolitan area stats often take in too large an area to be truly considered a fan-'base'. The best population stat for this purpose is the "urban area", but unfortunately the most recent stats available for that are now 8 years old. So, that leaves us to consider metropolitan stats, though perhaps to modify them in some cases, subtracting out segments, too distant to be considered, of the metro area of some cities.

For example, with three teams in the NY area, we'd really have to at least divide up that area into 3 segments to represent the 3 teams. We'd have to do something similar with respect to the LA and the Bay areas of California, and perhaps maybe a couple of other NHL metro areas.
However you cut it, as far as "greater metro" or "urbanized" areas go, I'd have to consider Edmonton to be smallest of the 30 in the NHL. Uniondale has a fairly large surrounding population base in Nassau County to draw from. Greater Atlanta is a huge sprawl. Buffalo draws from numerous surrounding population areas. So does Raleigh. It takes a hockey-mad region like Edmonton to sustain an NHL city with the limitations of its immediate region's population.

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Rafael View Post
Do you have a link to that?
BP is a pay site so a link is of limited use.

But here is part 1:
http://baseballprospectus.com/articl...articleid=6182
and part 2:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=6184

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:29 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Dallas and Ft. Worth are most certainly counted together. The key variable is contiguous density. Dallas and Ft. Worth have growth together and therefore are counted as one "urbanized area". The other definition "MSA" using commuting patterns not contiguous density as their criteria.

Here is an example. I live in Atlanta. If you live in rural Barrow County up on the northeast side of the state and 15% of Barrow County residents commute and work inside other counties that are part of the Atlanta MSA--presto--now the Census Bureau considers you part of "Atlanta" even though you still might have farmers and cows next door to you. That's one reason I really don't like the MSA definition. The 15% threshold is too low and there is population density element.

On the other hand if you live way out in Barrow County, using the "urbanized area" definition you DO NOT get counted as being part of Atlanta because that county is still largely rural and not built up.

So to re-cap:
MSAs--use economic activity to classify metro counties insider metro areas.
Urbanized Areas--look at where the population is actually dense or "city-like" and contiguous.
Thanks. MSA is definitely too big, though urban area might ignore small towns at the edge of the city. But I suppose that error is much less significant because of the small population of the town.

I can tell you that all of Tarrant, Dallas and Collin County are now part of the DFW Metroplex because of the huge growth in Collin County the past 5-7 years. Denton County is the next on the list to become part of the huge sprawl. But I'd bet a jump of around one million for the DFW "urbanized area" in the next census numbers.

I get touchy about it because of old battles with other hockey fans about "hick towns" when, in reality, DFW is one of the biggest urban areas in the NHL. A sprawling city not close to any other NHL teams, but an urban area nonetheless.

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:32 PM
  #80
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Edmonton and Calgary combined arent as big as Vancouver....that summons me some in this nightmarish off-season.

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:49 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritter471 View Post
Thanks. MSA is definitely too big, though urban area might ignore small towns at the edge of the city. But I suppose that error is much less significant because of the small population of the town.

I can tell you that all of Tarrant, Dallas and Collin County are now part of the DFW Metroplex because of the huge growth in Collin County the past 5-7 years. Denton County is the next on the list to become part of the huge sprawl. But I'd bet a jump of around one million for the DFW "urbanized area" in the next census numbers.

I get touchy about it because of old battles with other hockey fans about "hick towns" when, in reality, DFW is one of the biggest urban areas in the NHL. A sprawling city not close to any other NHL teams, but an urban area nonetheless.
I hear what you're saying about assumptions people make. Dallas, Atlanta and Tampa-St.Pete, Maimi are all huge population centers.

I know the Denton Co has been part of the MSA since at least 1990s maybe even 1980s. The current Dallas FTW MSA definition includes some counties that are out there quite a ways--like Atlanta.

Here is a link to a map of the DAL-FTW "urbanized area" of 2000.
http://ftp2.census.gov/geo/maps/urba...outline/UA2000
/ua22042/ua22042_00.pdf

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Old
07-04-2008, 08:19 PM
  #82
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These arguments never go anywhere. The bigger the population the worse.

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Old
07-04-2008, 09:33 PM
  #83
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It's not the smallest, but the population of Boston has shrunk to <600,000.

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Old
07-05-2008, 05:02 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames14 View Post
yeah they should relocate to winnipeg
the winnipeg islanders
hey that's my line.
and what i find funny is that there are probably more hockey fans in manitoba than in arizona,georgia,and florida combined.


Last edited by vivianmb: 07-05-2008 at 05:08 PM.
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Old
07-05-2008, 05:11 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Edmonton and Calgary combined arent as big as Vancouver....that summons me some in this nightmarish off-season.
Summons you to where? To your dark lord?

If somehow you were tying to imply that it comforts you, that makes even less sense. How would having a bigger city make you feel better?

What strange post.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:51 AM
  #86
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Not that anyone cares but the Panthers aren't close to Miami.

Sunrise is around 40 miles from Miami, if you want to use a big city you can say Fort Lauderdale which is only 12 miles away.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:59 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashMan View Post
As the city just itself, isn't it Buffalo?

Excluding the metropolitan area of course, any Sabres fan want to clarify?

Vancouver the city itself has only 612,000 people but the GVA is about 2.5 million people if you include Surrey, Burnaby, Richmond, Langley, Delta, etc.
That's just it... there is no definition within the thread. Buffalo's regional population is 1.1 million.... without counting any heads on the other side of the Niagara River. There are over 400,000 people in the Niagara Region of Ontario that do not ever get added into the equation -- hell, if I can sit next to guys from Rochester (65 miles away) with season tickets, then there might something to including people 30 miles away in St. Catharines as part of the consuming demographic.

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:00 AM
  #88
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http://www.statshockey.net/nhlcities.html

going by that link and looking at Metro areas, Carolina seems to have the smallest population to draw on

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:13 AM
  #89
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Buffalo also draws largely from Rochester, which is an hour drive down the road and is the third-largest city in the state. ****ing everyone here is a Sabres fan. Trust me.

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Old
07-06-2008, 05:44 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdiotsPickedMyName View Post
Yeah I know I live in Ottawa too (Richmond), but you can still get separate census data and are quite a ways from the population center of Ottawa downtown proper.

No one living in Kanata, Stittsville, Orleans etc. is ever going to say they are from Ottawa to anyone who lives in the city, its just too damn big the city proper with Kanata and all the rest included covers 2,797 km2. New York city which is the largest in the entire US is only 789.43 km2

Yeah, I remember when Chilly Chillies moved from Byward Market it sucked; Byward was an easy stop during any trip to Ottawa but they moved to Navan, which is on the far outskirts somewhere in rural country.... I distinctly remember driving down rural highways in farm country yet it was all part of the newly enlarged city of Ottawa (lol)... now I use mail order!

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Old
07-06-2008, 03:54 PM
  #91
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wikipedia says nashville is 613 000 people with a metro population of 1.4mil

in terms of how big the city is, 613 000 is pretty small compared to edmonton, calgary, ottawa

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Old
07-18-2008, 11:19 PM
  #92
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Here's a link posted today in a thread on the Business of Hockey board; it sort of fits right in to the topic discussed in this thread.

"The CBA uses something called DMA, or designated marketing area"....
http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2007/11/b...l-markets.html


A look at the NHL's 21 U.S. markets as ranked by DMA:
1. New York - 7.4 million
2. Los Angeles - 5.6 million
3. Chicago - 3.5 million
4. Philadelphia - 2.9 million
5. Dallas - 2.4 million
6. San Jose - 2.4 million
7. Boston - 2. 4 million
8. Atlanta - 2.3 million
9. Washington - 2.3 million
11. Detroit - 1.9 million
12. Phoenix - 1.8 million
13. Tampa Bay - 1.8 million
15. St. Paul - 1.7 million
16. Miami - 1.5 million
18. Denver - 1.5 million
21. St. Louis - 1.2 million
22. Pittsburgh - 1.2 million
28. Raleigh - 1.0 million
30. Nashville - 0.97 million
32. Columbus - 0.91 million
50. Buffalo - 0.64 million


Last edited by MoreOrr: 07-19-2008 at 10:34 PM.
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Old
07-19-2008, 12:05 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard View Post
However you cut it, as far as "greater metro" or "urbanized" areas go, I'd have to consider Edmonton to be smallest of the 30 in the NHL. Uniondale has a fairly large surrounding population base in Nassau County to draw from. Greater Atlanta is a huge sprawl. Buffalo draws from numerous surrounding population areas. So does Raleigh. It takes a hockey-mad region like Edmonton to sustain an NHL city with the limitations of its immediate region's population.
Edmonton may very well be the smallest populated city, urban area, metro whatever you want to call it. It doesn't limit it's fan base though. Unlike in vastly populated ares where you love a team basically only if you live or grew up in that city, Edmonton draws a fan base from everything north of Edmonton and most of Saskatchewan from what I've witnessed visiting areas. The simple reason being there aren't any other hockey teams in the area. Edmonton as a city may have the smallest population but by no means do they have the smallest fan base if that is in fact what you are implying.

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07-19-2008, 02:59 PM
  #94
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I wouldn't ever admit to being very well educated, since I'm not, but when I was starting my business I took a few business courses. The most important for me was defining your potential consumer market.

Atlanta and Toronto are similar sized cities, but their consumer market sizes can extremely vary as to what product you are selling.

You won't sell many snow shovels in Atlanta, for instance.

Edmonton may only have a million or so population (smallest in the league) and a relatively small corporate base, but their actual "hockey" market feasibility is comparable to New York City - with twenty million people and the largest corporate base in the world.

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Old
07-19-2008, 03:35 PM
  #95
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Here is a link to a wikipedia article that has statistics for metro areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tistical_areas

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Old
07-19-2008, 04:25 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny side up View Post
if you are looking at strickly city...


Almost all the people in Uniondale can fit in the Islanders arena... that is AWESOME!!
Then it´s no wonder so few people are at the games, they are afraid that their homes are being robbed........coz NOBODY´S HOME.........LOL

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Old
07-19-2008, 05:25 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwan553 View Post
Thats Atlanta without the metro.
And thats the Ottawa region, not Ottawa

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Old
07-19-2008, 05:34 PM
  #98
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Edmonton has about ~740,000 without metro and 1.1 million with. It's metropolitan area is actually almost exactly the same as Calgary (1.076 million to 1.079 million). It's base population is bigger then Ottawa's and many of the American markets.

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07-19-2008, 10:04 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by dkhockey View Post
Then it´s no wonder so few people are at the games, they are afraid that their homes are being robbed........coz NOBODY´S HOME.........LOL
Strictly by city, sure.

But that's Long Island's team, and if you go by the area, you're talking about almost more than 7.5 million people on a strip of land 12-13 miles wide and 118 miles long. And that's from a census where many say that the population was severely under-counted. Even with low numbers, that's 5,470 people per square mile. Just a thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island

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Old
07-19-2008, 10:50 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Edmonton has about ~740,000 without metro and 1.1 million with. It's metropolitan area is actually almost exactly the same as Calgary (1.076 million to 1.079 million). It's base population is bigger then Ottawa's and many of the American markets.
Calgary has a bigger square kilometer area than Edmonton. I believe in fact that Calgary uses the most land in Canada, and I believe the US as well. Gotta love the commute!

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