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We're still not a last place team...

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Old
07-03-2008, 06:17 PM
  #26
RyanMac
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I think Toronto will be an annoying team to play against, but will lack the scoring to get out of the basement.

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07-03-2008, 06:22 PM
  #27
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by djp55 View Post
sadly, I'm not sure which of your two options i'm leaning towards. Assuming option A comes true, we'll likely compete for 8th. Assuming B is true, we compete for Tavares/Hedman. In true Leaf fashion, we'll likely fall in the middle somewhere.
If Steen, Stralman and Kulemin can lead this team to the playoffs next season(which I highly doubt), then we don't need Tavares as bad as everyone thinks.

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07-03-2008, 06:31 PM
  #28
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
If Steen, Stralman and Kulemin can lead this team to the playoffs next season(which I highly doubt), then we don't need Tavares as bad as everyone thinks.
That would be a dream scenario. Tlusty, Stralman, Kulemin, Steen, Colaiacovo leading this team.

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07-03-2008, 06:33 PM
  #29
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I still think were going to pick up a center like Morrison or maybe someone through trade. The potential loss of Sundin does impact the team but I think with a player like Morrison if he's signed Sundins points can pretty well be replaced. IMO next seasons team to me is better then last seasons team. It realy all depends on what the guys brought in can do and if they can live up to or exceed expectation. Then factor in the will Antropov improve this season will Steen and the rest of the kids improve? What will Kulemin bring to Toronto, if he can translate his game to the NHL we will have a hell of a player. Will Cola finally have a healthy season? I think Toronto could drastically improve next season but they could also just as easily bust and torpedo to the bottom of the standings. The key things we do have is we have potential at forward, guys who have the potential of putting up good NHL numbers. We have the potential on defense, these guys have the ability to be special it just means they need to stay healthy. We have the potential in goal, Vesa can steal games for us and now we have a capable back up in Joseph. We are a lot grittier/tougher then last season. We are going to be faster then last season and we have a great coach. Anything is possible especially if more of those cons happen then not but I am hoping for a nosedive and a top 5 pick next season
Morrison is terrible. He's a 2nd line centre and would be lucky to hit 50 points. He was able to leech off Bertuzzi and Naslund. It's the opposite with Sundin, he made his linemates.

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07-03-2008, 06:35 PM
  #30
Joey Hoser
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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
That would be a dream scenario. Tlusty, Stralman, Kulemin, Steen, Colaiacovo leading this team.
Tanking is overrated. Just hand the team to the youth. If they're not good enough, you'll get your shot at Tavares, if they are, don't complain.

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07-03-2008, 06:36 PM
  #31
Kimota
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I wonder what can Ron Wilson bring to a team like this. Is he a good teacher? Because there's going to be several kids out there. It was almost the ideal time to get a younger coach that would have grown with the new generation of Leafs players. I think John Anderson would have been the perfect solution in my opinion.

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Old
07-03-2008, 06:45 PM
  #32
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I wouldn't mind getting the other (better) Schenn.

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07-03-2008, 06:56 PM
  #33
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We have a good goalie, what looks like a hardworking team, a good coach who will definitely improve the PK and PP, our young players now have one more year of experience and if we can sneak into the playoffs anything can happen.

Even if the Leafs do not make the playoffs, I will really appreciate it if they learn and tried hard every night.

Stockpiling picks and young players is the way to go, we also need to develop a system that is followed on the big club right down to the AHL and ECHL (Red Wings, Devils, Habs, Flames, Wild) The Marlies who did very well was a veteran laden team, we need to replace them with youngsters.

Please no more talk of TANKING, it is dishonourable, unfair to the paying fans and unfair to the athletes.

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Old
07-03-2008, 07:02 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
Tanking is overrated. Just hand the team to the youth. If they're not good enough, you'll get your shot at Tavares, if they are, don't complain.
well said.

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Old
07-03-2008, 07:07 PM
  #35
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i'll watch them
if they hungry and built for the future
it should be interesting

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07-03-2008, 07:27 PM
  #36
Evileye
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OK I'm going against the grain....

I say the Leafs are better next year without Sundin.

There, I said it, if I'm wrong - oh well.
But If I'm right - I'm going to gloat big time.


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Old
07-03-2008, 10:33 PM
  #37
richardn
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Originally Posted by djp55 View Post
Hi there,

Long time reader, first time poster (I've never understood why people who dial into radio talk shows are compelled to provide such a status..but I'll do it anyway).

My preference is for the Leafs to gut the team, and do a re-start like Pitts has done. I'm more than willing to take 3 years of bottom 3 in the league for a chance to build up our organization like Pitts, Montreal or Detroit.

I'm still not sure what Cliff's trying to do. I originally thought he was trying to gut the team and to start building through the draft and youth pick-ups. But in the last 2 weeks, he's traded away a bunch of 2nd round picks and locked in a couple of mediocre 28 yr old players for 4 yrs and big money.

With our current roster and situation, I really don't see how the Leafs can finish in the bottom 2 this year (which appears to be a goal of many of us). Here's a few reasons.

1) Toskala. He's too good to be a last-place goalie.
Let's look at the worst teams for the last 3 years :
07-08 : LA Kings -> LaBarbera, Bernier, Aubin, Ersberg
06-07 : Philly -> Nittymaki, a crappy Biron, Esche
05-06 : St Louis -> Sanford, Lalime

Toskala is considerably better than any of these names. Based on his 2nd half performance, he should be capable of improving his overal save percentage and stealing a few more wins.

2) Ron Wilson. I think he's a decent coach who seems to recognize the importance of defense. He knows he'll be measured against Maurice in terms of special teams and defense, so I expect to see an improvement in all 3. Last place teams are typically crappy with all 3.

3) Culture. MLSE and Cliffy have the mandate to change the culture right away. Hence the purge of Tucker, McCabe, Welly and some of the other deadweight. I expect the Leafs to be a low scoring, likeable team that will work hard and show a fair bit of grit. Again..not a recipe for a last place team.

I don't see us being a good team next year. We should be in the bottom 10 teams, but I don't see us being in the bottom 2 which means we're likely out of the Tavares/Hedman sweepstakes, barring some miracle.

DP
I agree to some point, but your forgetting the loss of Sundin in there. Right now if the season were to start tomorow we would have the worst 1st line in the NHL. But we have 4 good 3rd lines. I wanted them to move Toskala last year at the deadline I bet we could have got a lot for him. Anyways its probably just as hard to finish dead last as be in the top 5. Nothing is guaranteed. That said, I want to tank the next two and go hard for Nash when he will be UFA. If we could get Nash and two more top 5 picks to go with Schenn we should be in good shape.

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Old
07-03-2008, 11:09 PM
  #38
djp55
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I agree to some point, but your forgetting the loss of Sundin in there. Right now if the season were to start tomorow we would have the worst 1st line in the NHL. But we have 4 good 3rd lines. I wanted them to move Toskala last year at the deadline I bet we could have got a lot for him. Anyways its probably just as hard to finish dead last as be in the top 5. Nothing is guaranteed. That said, I want to tank the next two and go hard for Nash when he will be UFA. If we could get Nash and two more top 5 picks to go with Schenn we should be in good shape.
I'm not sold on Nash right now, although he's still very young. I guess i'm just disappointed by his production and Columbus's record since he's been there.

I agree we may have the crappiest 1st line, but I still think the top line should be able to average 60 points. Additionally, I'm going to assume that our PP and our shootouts improve considerably based on systems and skill level.

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Old
07-03-2008, 11:12 PM
  #39
richardn
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Originally Posted by djp55 View Post
I'm not sold on Nash right now, although he's still very young. I guess i'm just disappointed by his production and Columbus's record since he's been there.

I agree we may have the crappiest 1st line, but I still think the top line should be able to average 60 points. Additionally, I'm going to assume that our PP and our shootouts improve considerably based on systems and skill level.
Nash is not a playmaker he is a power forward who can score 50 goals. He is a game breaker. Put him on a line with a good play maker like Brad Richards or someone of that sort and you will have an even better Nash. He will probably never be a 100 point player but he could still score you close to 60.

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07-03-2008, 11:13 PM
  #40
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I think Toronto will be an annoying team to play against, but will lack the scoring to get out of the basement.
Best case scenario. We still get a high pick but I really wanna see these guys work their arses off every night and show some fight.

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:31 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by TML4ever View Post
Bottom 5 will probably be...

1. Kings
2. Thrashers
3. Islanders
4. Leafs
5. Preds
Preds? People keep saying that and it never happens.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:09 AM
  #42
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I think if you take away Sundin from last years squad, we're the worst team in the league.

Take away Sundin, and some of our other players, and I don't see that changing.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:14 AM
  #43
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I think if you take away Sundin from last years squad, we're the worst team in the league.

Take away Sundin, and some of our other players, and I don't see that changing.
couldn't agree more. How many games did he win for us? Without him it will be much worse.

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07-04-2008, 06:05 AM
  #44
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Leafs won't be anywhere near a lottery pick this season. I know people think the loss of Sundin makes us worse, but that ice time gets spread out to Antropov, Steen and then players like Blake rebound after a bad season. Our defense will be much better so the goals won't be needed as much. We will be a little tougher to play against with some more grit added.

I want the Leafs to get a high draft pick as well but I know it isn't going to happen with toskala in for a full season as starter, Wilson coaching and some young players wit high end potential (Kuleman, Tlusty, Grabovsky). I think this will be a fun season to watch at least and they might just surprise people this season..

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Old
07-04-2008, 06:52 AM
  #45
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A factor I'm not seeing very much in this thread (and often missing in pre-season prognostications): injuries and therefore depth. The Leafs' depth is awful. They can barely ice 12 NHL level forwards with their theoretical lineups. Lose a few of the forwards for big chunks of the season and this lineup goes from decidedly mediocre to awful.

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:02 AM
  #46
TheLeastOfTheBunch
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Originally Posted by Ouroborous View Post
Preds? People keep saying that and it never happens.
The Preds are going to be a top team in the league for many years to come, with a defense of:

Weber - Hamhuis
Suter - Franson
Klein - Blum



And their future top 2 goaltending pair:

Pickard (#18th pick in 2008 draft)
Smith (#54th pick in the 2007 draft)

They should be a good team offensively, with a future top 6 of:

Radulov - Wilson (Colin) - Erat
Hornqvist - Legwand - Pihlstrom

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:02 AM
  #47
Transplanted Caper
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Originally Posted by crump View Post
Leafs won't be anywhere near a lottery pick this season. I know people think the loss of Sundin makes us worse, but that ice time gets spread out to Antropov, Steen and then players like Blake rebound after a bad season. Our defense will be much better so the goals won't be needed as much. We will be a little tougher to play against with some more grit added.

I want the Leafs to get a high draft pick as well but I know it isn't going to happen with toskala in for a full season as starter, Wilson coaching and some young players wit high end potential (Kuleman, Tlusty, Grabovsky). I think this will be a fun season to watch at least and they might just surprise people this season..
If McCabe is gone our defense will be significantly worse. Antropov still needs to stay healthy, Blake can't improve exponentially and Steen hasn't shown consistency at the NHL level. Sundin was one of the best centres in the game. The 3 you cite are 2nd liners, at best, right now. Not really trying to crap on them, just saying they need to fill their own roles, let alone Sundin's

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:33 AM
  #48
Sundinisagod
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I'm pretty optimistic that we'll be in the bottom 5.

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Old
07-04-2008, 07:58 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by J. Greenstein View Post
I'm pretty optimistic that we'll be in the bottom 5.
We can only hope.

Flecth needs to Ditch one of McCabe or Kubina and Poni for some picks.

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Old
07-04-2008, 08:12 AM
  #50
djp55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
The Preds are going to be a top team in the league for many years to come, with a defense of:

Weber - Hamhuis
Suter - Franson
Klein - Blum



And their future top 2 goaltending pair:

Pickard (#18th pick in 2008 draft)
Smith (#54th pick in the 2007 draft)

They should be a good team offensively, with a future top 6 of:

Radulov - Wilson (Colin) - Erat
Hornqvist - Legwand - Pihlstrom
I can't tell if you're joking or not. With Hamhuis as a top pair d-man and Erat on the top line...I feel a bit better about the Leafs.

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