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Old
07-02-2008, 10:59 PM
  #1
Canucker
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Blow It Up

I know this has been discussed and people think "it's still early" or that the idea of a complete re-build is an over reaction to the lack of activity. However, I'm of the mind that this is probably the best time to re-build the Canucks. The way GM's are spending money this summer cannot be sustained in my opinion. One of these days the cap won't go up, it could even drop, and if that were to happen it would be good to have a surplus of cap space to spend of talent that isn't going to be as ridiculously inflated. Of course this is just speculation on my part.
Plus the upcoming year is going to be a good one to have a lottery pick. We have some good young players on our roster to build with (Kesler, Raymond, Edler) and some more in the wings (Schneider, Grabner, Hansen). We have some very solid chips to deal for young talent (Luongo, The Sedins, Bieksa). Of course I'm not eager to go through the growing pains of a rebuilding team but i'd be content to see a team with a solid plan and foundation start over. Of course this means blowing up our scouting staff as well(other than possibly Gradin) and finding scouts that can actually sniff out some real talent.
I understand why this is such an unpopular idea and I would rather not, but unless our top 6 gets a serious offensive boost with some grit I have a feeling we would be lucky to be fighting for a playoff spot.

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07-02-2008, 11:01 PM
  #2
YogiCanucks
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Why not eh? Think of the return we could get for Luongo? 1st rounder + prospect? and think about the Sedin's!! and if we can get some of our older defense to waive the NTC... woot. I'm in.

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07-02-2008, 11:02 PM
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Finkle is Einhorn
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Can we just have an all-purpose "We Suck" thread stickied? Seems every thread posted today is some variant of that basic theme.

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07-02-2008, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Axe View Post
Can we just have an all-purpose "We Suck" thread stickied? Seems every thread posted today is some variant of that basic theme.
Read his post. It is well-reasoned and not overly negative.

Canucker: I would recommend changing the title of your thread. A lot of people judge things based on the name of the thread and don't actually read the post, so you're going to be flamed if you leave it title "blow it up."

Just a thought.

I liked your post.

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07-02-2008, 11:06 PM
  #5
unknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Axe View Post
Can we just have an all-purpose "We Suck" thread stickied? Seems every thread posted today is some variant of that basic theme.

exactly we need a canuck fans mass suicide thread.

for the less dramatic whiners. we need a ***** and moan thread.

or if we could some how divert these posters to cdc i would be happy.

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07-02-2008, 11:08 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown View Post
exactly we need a canuck fans mass suicide thread.

for the less dramatic whiners. we need a ***** and moan thread.

or if we could some how divert these posters to cdc i would be happy.
Or you could learn to read posts and not fly into a thread flinging insults left and right based on what the thread is titled.

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07-02-2008, 11:11 PM
  #7
Finkle is Einhorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan View Post
Read his post. It is well-reasoned and not overly negative.

Canucker: I would recommend changing the title of your thread. A lot of people judge things based on the name of the thread and don't actually read the post, so you're going to be flamed if you leave it title "blow it up."

Just a thought.

I liked your post.
I did read his post, and I agree, it wasn't overly negative or inflammatory. It just happened to be the sixth thread addressing a similar theme (albeit, at least, in an intelligent manner).

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07-02-2008, 11:14 PM
  #8
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Kaboom!

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:14 PM
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Last season was the time to deal our impending UFA's to at least salvage some picks. I know Nonis did not have a crystal ball to predict the final outcome however the Canucks were clearly in no position to do anything of significance in the Playoffs. Morrison and Naslund could've garnered a couple of 1st round/2nd round picks in a very deep draft. Hell even Miller could've got us some late picks.

-If we're gonna deal the Sedins we better get a couple significant picks and a young roster player.
-If we're gonna deal Luongo, a Spezza/Heatley player better come our way.

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07-02-2008, 11:14 PM
  #10
Johnny Canuck
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Sure you made some valid points, but if you remember the Burke era at all, it was a struggle to solidify our back end. To simply give it away, after just one playoff season with Roberto is really painful. Furthermore Canucks are two players away, which could very well be settled tomorrow, and Gillis would be back in our good graces. If Gillis, continues to add assets to our organization, and makes it competitive enough come trade deadline time... the team could be further strengthened through an acquisition or a signing next year.

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07-02-2008, 11:15 PM
  #11
Canucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan View Post
Read his post. It is well-reasoned and not overly negative.

Canucker: I would recommend changing the title of your thread. A lot of people judge things based on the name of the thread and don't actually read the post, so you're going to be flamed if you leave it title "blow it up."

Just a thought.

I liked your post.
thanks man.....I'm not worried about getting flamed tho, people will always have differing opinions and are passionate about our team. I think it would be refreshing to see some people within the organization with the same passion as some of the posters here.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:16 PM
  #12
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Flyer fan here,

I'd love for you guys to blow it up, by the deadline...get Tavares and rebuild from there.

Anybody but the Leafs.




Thanks in advance.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:21 PM
  #13
YogiCanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck View Post
Sure you made some valid points, but if you remember the Burke era at all, it was a struggle to solidify our back end. To simply give it away, after just one playoff season with Roberto is really painful. Furthermore Canucks are two players away, which could very well be settled tomorrow, and Gillis would be back in our good graces. If Gillis, continues to add assets to our organization, and makes it competitive enough come trade deadline time... the team could be further strengthened through an acquisition or a signing next year.
Very solid point. We are realistically only two players away. Obviously one would have to be a HUGE name but it CAN be done via trade. just it's going to be awfully difficult.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:22 PM
  #14
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alittle to early there bud but would you think luongo would stay during the re-buliding years

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07-02-2008, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck View Post
Sure you made some valid points, but if you remember the Burke era at all, it was a struggle to solidify our back end. To simply give it away, after just one playoff season with Roberto is really painful. Furthermore Canucks are two players away, which could very well be settled tomorrow, and Gillis would be back in our good graces. If Gillis, continues to add assets to our organization, and makes it competitive enough come trade deadline time... the team could be further strengthened through an acquisition or a signing next year.
In my opinion, this is exactly the attitude that dooms franchises. "Oh, we're almost there. Just an FA signing or two and we'll be contenders." Then the team trades away picks+prospects at the deadline because they think they're only one player away, and the prospect pool goes to ****. Team gets bounced in the first round, drafts 15th, doesn't have enough picks left to re-stock the minors, and then in the offseason tries to cobble together a contender again through free agency, and the cycle continues.

What you wind up with is a team that never wins and just gets older and older. Look at the Leafs. Or, worse, the Baltimore Orioles. We are not there yet, but if we keep going this way and don't rebuild then that is the kind of future that I see for us. The defense is aging and injury prone, and the Sedins/Luongo are about to be UFA's.

We might be able to contend this year with the right offseason pick-ups, but at what cost?

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:28 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Very solid point. We are realistically only two players away. Obviously one would have to be a HUGE name but it CAN be done via trade. just it's going to be awfully difficult.
Its pretty funny how one or two players can turn the franchise around or not obtaining those certain players makes a team become mediocre. Just look at Chicago after getting Kane and Toews, and Anaheim after losing Selanne and Niedermeyer.

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07-02-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorro View Post
Its pretty funny how one or two players can turn the franchise around or not obtaining those certain players makes a team become mediocre. Just look at Chicago after getting Kane and Toews, and Anaheim after losing Selanne and Niedermeyer.
The problem is that EVERY team is trying to bring in the two players that will turn them around. Fact is that 14 teams are going to miss the playoffs last year. That is by design. Every team thinks they can bring in 2 players and be a playoff team but for 14 of them that will not be the case.


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Old
07-02-2008, 11:35 PM
  #18
Finkle is Einhorn
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To me, it's Sundin or nothing at this point. He's the one guy who doesn't cost anything but money, and can carry a line by himself.

The Canucks might only be a few players away right now, but the big contingency there is that one of those few has to be a gamebreaker. Unfortunately, to acquire such a player via trade just opens up holes elsewhere in the lineup, creating a situation that is at best two steps forward one step back (in other words, not enough).

Say Sundin does what everyone is expecting and takes a pass on Vancouver. Can anyone really see this lineup contending for anything other than an early playoff exit, even if Gillis goes out and makes some fair sized moves? Demitra and Naslund don't make the Canucks a contender; hell, they might not even get the team back to the offensive numbers posted last season.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:35 PM
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just blow it up for sure, that is the only logical answer.

Luongo, the twins, bieksa, salo and ohlund should be traded and they should rebuild the proper way......There return will put hope in the Canucks in about three to four years (much like chicago did). We all know for a fact that Luongo won't resign here and Mats + Jagr+demitra on the roster this year(which wont happen) would not be enough to turn this team into a contender.....a playoff team ......maybe

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:42 PM
  #20
Johnny Canuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan View Post
We might be able to contend this year with the right offseason pick-ups, but at what cost?
Whatever cost is required to have Luongo sign an extension. All this talk of him being unwilling to commit to a team, that isn't serious about winning is a tad premature. He was quite willing to sign an extension and remain in Florida. Sedins will be resigned, We have 2 legitimate players in the system right now, as far as our back end is concerned. Sauve and Ellington with continued progression will be nhl players. Add kracijek and Edler to that core, our future on the back end isn't as bleek as you make it out.

If canucks are to rebuild, sedins will be kept in that core. Hodgson, will be here in two year baring unforeseen circumstances, so a youth movement is well along its way. Mitchell is 31, and Ohlund will be 32 at the start of next season. That is enough time for Vancouver to bring up prospects, and introduce other Dmen to the core.

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Old
07-03-2008, 01:00 AM
  #21
unknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan View Post
Or you could learn to read posts and not fly into a thread flinging insults left and right based on what the thread is titled.
I read his post personally i just think its the same thing people have been saying over and over again, we are not good enough lets tank. as alluring a prospect hedman and tavares are i would rather see the canucks compete for 8th in the conference year in and year out than to trade away the best player this franchise has ever seen in luongo or the sedins just so we can have a chance at a lottery pick...if you ask me thats just sad that we would rather compete for last in the league than fight for a playoff spot and miss. but thats just my opinion

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07-03-2008, 01:13 AM
  #22
Peter Griffin
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The logical long term outlook would be for the Canucks to "blow it up" now, trade their older players for picks/prospects and assemble a stockpile ala Los Angeles and try to build a young nucleus. They have some nice young pieces in Edler, Schneider, Kesler, Hodgson and Grabner, but not much after that. But as long as Luongo is here, the Canucks, and any team for that matter, while try to build a team that can at least make the post-season and go from there. Unfortunately, unless the Canucks are legit contenders, I really don't see Luongo being to keen on signing here, so it could very well come to the point that next off-season the Canucks are faced with the situation of either moving Luongo or heading into the season with him on the last year of his deal.

In short, I think the Canucks very much have the potential to make some moves to make them at least a playoff team, but I don't think the current make-up is contender worthy.

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Old
07-03-2008, 01:16 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
One of these days the cap won't go up, it could even drop, and if that were to happen it would be good to have a surplus of cap space to spend of talent that isn't going to be as ridiculously inflated.
The cap has a 1% chance of going down. Inflation will dictate that it will at least rise by a small % each year.

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Old
07-03-2008, 01:18 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ryan View Post
In my opinion, this is exactly the attitude that dooms franchises. "Oh, we're almost there. Just an FA signing or two and we'll be contenders."
If we didn't have Luongo, then I agree we nuke it from orbit.

Bu since we have the best goaltender in the NHL, you do whatever is necessary to try and win a championship.

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Old
07-03-2008, 07:50 AM
  #25
Jay Cee
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Oh god, the sky is falling the sky is falling! On July 2nd no less.

I have an alternate solution. Disband the Canucks franchise and mass suicides of fans. Those most concerned about the events of the last few days can go first.

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