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Best team in the east so far...

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Old
07-04-2008, 09:08 PM
  #176
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
Nope the problem is some posters think that FA signing = success, even if they are overpaid, even if they are old and declining players and even if the team who signed them has lost half of his top 6 forwards a few days ago.
As I said in the preceding post, the Rangers had to get younger up front. Also, they couldn't really find a line for Jagr to play on and he had a poor scoring season for a former superstar, 71 points, with only 25 goals. He was no longer worth his salary.

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07-04-2008, 09:10 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
That's a good first line and good depth at center, plus an improved defense. Staal should better in his second year. Last year's team with Jagr, Shanahan, and Straka was slow, and Tyutin and Backman were vulnerable.
That 1st line looks more like a very good 2nd line to me. Well maybe not on any team but deff on a team that some people seem to think will win th eeast

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07-04-2008, 09:25 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by HABS_FrEaK View Post
I don't get all the love for the Rangers...to me they are about the same if not worse than last year.

Naslund - Gomez - Zherdev
Dawes?? - Drury - Pruc
Voros - Dubinsky - Callahan
Rissmiller - Betts - Hollweg
orr, Frirsche

Redden - Rozsival
Stall[/B] - Mara
Girardi - Kalinin

And of course one of the best goalies in the league but still...thats really not that impressive to me. Am I missing something or what?
I don't think they are worse than last year. They have definitely upgraded on D with Redden and Kalinin, plus Staal is another year older and stronger. The loss of Jagr and his 71 points won't kill this team either. Zherdev did not meet expectations in Columbus, but the kid has all the tools. Naslund has been playing with Brendan Morrison as a centre for the last 5 years (mostly), and I have to think that he will be better alongside Gomez. Not saying he will get back to 40+ goals, but somewhere around 30 is pretty much a lock. Plus, they have some good young talent in Dubinsky and Korpikoski to round out the middle lines. I hate the Rangers almost as much as the Bruins and Flyers, but on paper they seem like a decent team to me. And not just cause they signed some players, but because the players they signed/acquired are legit.

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07-04-2008, 09:42 PM
  #179
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They are strill good but they lost Hossa and Malone in the top six. Their replacements are Satan and fedentenko which in my opinion are downgrades. HecK, I would rather have Armstrong and Christenson over Satan and Fedentenko.
Armstrong was awful last year. Was a healthy scratch for many games for good reason. Energy guy who played like he was half asleep.

Christensen? Shootout specialist at best.

No particular order

1. Habs
2. Pens
3. Caps
4. Philly

Rangers?? It wouldn't surprise me to see them miss the playoffs. Or do really well. So hard to tell, with huge roster turnover.

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07-04-2008, 09:46 PM
  #180
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I think the Rangers are very weak at wing IMO. That is where they will not even come close to comparing to last year. You can say Jagr had a bad season, but what he brought to the team in terms of leadership, size, and sheer matchup ability is undenaibly lost. Straka is a little loss, he is a pretty good top 6 winger. Avery is a big loss, he brough so many intangibles to the team and will sorely be missed. Tyutin was part of their best pairing in Girardi-Tyutin, that's like us losing Komisarek to a lesser extent. Backman was a decent offensive defensemen, but can be replaced.
Lets now look at the replacements: Zherdev brings Avery's attitude, but similar production and no intangibles. He may flourish in NY, but I doubt it, never been a fan of his oodles of talent and lack of desire. Naslund is over the hill by a long shot, I've been watching him for the last 6 years here and Vancouver, and can see a finished player when I see one. Redden is a decent addition, but we all know that he is a bit over rated, as his play has tailed off considerably ever since Chara left the Sens. Kalinin is a decent depth move, he will be more of less insignificant. New York's strength lies within the middle with Gomez, Dubinsky, Drury and obviously Lunqvist in the net. Dubinsky should play a big role this year and Callahan should improve on the wing. But players like Voros, Prucha, Naslund and Zherdev do not impress me at all.

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07-04-2008, 09:46 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by nas26 View Post
I don't think they are worse than last year. They have definitely upgraded on D with Redden and Kalinin, plus Staal is another year older and stronger. The loss of Jagr and his 71 points won't kill this team either. Zherdev did not meet expectations in Columbus, but the kid has all the tools. Naslund has been playing with Brendan Morrison as a centre for the last 5 years (mostly), and I have to think that he will be better alongside Gomez. Not saying he will get back to 40+ goals, but somewhere around 30 is pretty much a lock. Plus, they have some good young talent in Dubinsky and Korpikoski to round out the middle lines. I hate the Rangers almost as much as the Bruins and Flyers, but on paper they seem like a decent team to me. And not just cause they signed some players, but because the players they signed/acquired are legit.
Its an upgraded defense IF the Redden of old shows up. They also gave up Tyutin who is better than Kalinin and better than the Redden we have watched for the last 2 years.

On offense, depends what you think is better. Is Zherdev and Naslund better than Jagr and Shanahan?

Are these moves better, possible, they could also be a disaster. They replaced some very good players with some question marks.

Also, Sean Avery is a big loss imo.

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07-04-2008, 10:03 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Its an upgraded defense IF the Redden of old shows up. They also gave up Tyutin who is better than Kalinin and better than the Redden we have watched for the last 2 years.

On offense, depends what you think is better. Is Zherdev and Naslund better than Jagr and Shanahan?

Are these moves better, possible, they could also be a disaster. They replaced some very good players with some question marks.

Also, Sean Avery is a big loss imo.
I don't know. Tyutin and Kalinin are pretty much a wash in my opinion, and as much as I have booed him in the past, Redden is a top flight all around D-man. Add in steady Roszival and an improving Staal and Girardi and I think the Rangers have a pretty solid 5. Zherdev put up only 10 fewer points than Jagr on a worse team, and he is only 23. Losing Shanahan could hurt, but is he gone for sure? If I compare Montreal to NY, I would have to say that the Habs are more explosive offensively, but the Rangers are probably a more steady defensive team. Regardless, I think that the top 5 in the east includes both, along with Pittsburgh, Jersey, and whoever wins the Southeast (Carolina or Washington probably).

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07-04-2008, 10:30 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by nas26 View Post
I don't know. Tyutin and Kalinin are pretty much a wash in my opinion, and as much as I have booed him in the past, Redden is a top flight all around D-man. Add in steady Roszival and an improving Staal and Girardi and I think the Rangers have a pretty solid 5. Zherdev put up only 10 fewer points than Jagr on a worse team, and he is only 23. Losing Shanahan could hurt, but is he gone for sure? If I compare Montreal to NY, I would have to say that the Habs are more explosive offensively, but the Rangers are probably a more steady defensive team. Regardless, I think that the top 5 in the east includes both, along with Pittsburgh, Jersey, and whoever wins the Southeast (Carolina or Washington probably).
Wow. Unless you have missed the last two years, there is zero way you can call Redden a "top flight all around defenseman."

Between Kalinin and Tyutin. Again, you are way off. Tyutin plays about 3 minutes more a game than Kalinin.

Kalinin essentially replaces Backman and frankly Backman is a better defenseman too.

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Old
07-04-2008, 11:17 PM
  #184
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Rangers do the same every year, they change like 4-6 core players and so on !

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07-04-2008, 11:27 PM
  #185
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I hate you guys but i see top 4 in the east being:

montreal
Pitts
philly
bos

i really dont see tampa being a factor this year. maybe next
Despite their roster losses, I think the Pens are still the team to beat in the east.

Habs ---- maybe -- they have to answer some questions especially in goal!

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07-04-2008, 11:59 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Despite their roster losses, I think the Pens are still the team to beat in the east.

Habs ---- maybe -- they have to answer some questions especially in goal!
Price had a 91,6% save percentage in regular season, he just had one a few (and probably too many) bad performances against the Flyers in the playoff.

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07-05-2008, 12:43 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers View Post
Aside from adding a goon, what off-season moves have the Habs made to get stronger?

EDIT: I'm reminded that you added Tanguay.
Like you said we got Tanguay. We also let Ryder leave for Boston.

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07-05-2008, 12:54 AM
  #188
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Right now I would say that Pittsburgh has an edge that we can overcome with the right finishing touches before next season

TB will be better but they were last. Their D and special teams play has not been solved. Playoff team maybe

Philly presents a challenge.

Sens on the down swing

NYR still shuffling the same few cards over and over. Impressive core group of talent, but lacks depth

Boston is essentially the same

Washington will make life hard for a lot of teams

devils? I never know what to expect

The rest of the non playoff teams probably stay that way

Lots of Finger pointing in Toronto

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Old
07-05-2008, 01:16 AM
  #189
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I dont really see any reason why Montreal wont repeat again in the east. However we almost beat them last year in the playoffs and they barely brought anything against the Flyers. I remember in the Bruins series they were letting our guys go in after the dump ins first to avoid taking hits. Doesnt exactly scream long playoff run.

The Penguins not only got worse up front but lost alot of grit and character that made them all the more difficult to play against with their scoring. If Crosby plays the whole season and Malkin repeats last year though they could take it.

Dont know if Naslund will rebound or if the Rangers will mesh well. The Flyers and Bruins will be surprising I think. Aside from those teams I dont think anyone else has much of a chance. Theres the caps but they play in the LOL hockey division so their record is will be inflated.

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07-05-2008, 08:27 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Wow. Unless you have missed the last two years, there is zero way you can call Redden a "top flight all around defenseman."

Between Kalinin and Tyutin. Again, you are way off. Tyutin plays about 3 minutes more a game than Kalinin.

Kalinin essentially replaces Backman and frankly Backman is a better defenseman too.
For sure Redden did not have a great year last year, but who on the Sens really did. He was still their top scoring D man and was not far behind Phillips and Volchenkov in +/-. The previous year he struggled with injuries. I understand the hate for Redden and have thrown my share of insults his way, but the guy can play. I don't think anyone can argue that.

I also don't think there is a huge difference between Kalinin and Tyutin, other than a few years of age. The guy was hurt for the majority of last year, and Buffalo was just not that good. Tyutin might have more upside, but the Rangers got a pretty good return for him.

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07-05-2008, 09:09 AM
  #191
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Well Call me crazzy but there are few things that just got a whole lot better and few that got weaker IMO .....

In the improved cathegory...
---------------------------
Tempa Bay: The addition of Malone, Roberts, Stamkos will surely boost there performance. They should have stable goaltending. Not sure about there defence though...

Boston: They did not make a whole lot of moves but Wheeler, Ryder but considering they will get Bergeron back as to be considered a big plus for a team that already succeeded this year. All there missing is a good 4th Dmen and they should be rigth up there with us in the conference.

Philly: Should be the same as Boston if they get a full year of Gagne... a big If though

Washington: A full year with a goaly plus there young forwards got a taste of winning, they will have a pretty good team IMO.

Montreal: I think that Tanguay will replace adequatly Streit's pts production and our young guys just got a hell better.

NJD: Holik and Rolston will help this team quite a lot

Unchanged:
-------------
NYR: I fail to see how people see this team worst then last year.. they will be faster this year and will have less distraction, but about chimistry..? I see them as a toss.

Pittsburg will have a good team, but not as strong as last year IMO they lost lots of grit in Malone, they also lost Christiansan +. But a full season of Crosby should bring them right there

The loosers:
Ottawa: Weaker on D, uncertain goaly situation
Toronto: Do you need an explanation (will Grabovski be there 1st center?)
Carolina: I don't like this Cole for Pitkanen Deal at all.
Florida: Ouch
Buffalo: A full year whithout Cambell, the got rid of Berner and do you realy think Rivet is the savior?
NYI: I do not see them as going in the rigth direction
Atlanta: Just because...

So I say next year's top 8 in an unpredictable order:
Pittsburg
Philly
NJD
MTL
BOSTON
NYR
WASH
Tough race between (Buffalo, Ottawa, NYI, TB), I pick TB just because I like them

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07-05-2008, 12:14 PM
  #192
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Rags don't need to have awesome forwards. They play a tight trap and good team defense.

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07-05-2008, 12:47 PM
  #193
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I can't believe everyone here! The Habs are EASILY the best in team in the east. I mean Tampa?? I think everyone got caught up in this free agency frenzy. I seem to remember a Rangers team that didn't make the playoff with the high priced forwards and no chemistry. Speaking of the Rags, Defence got better and will help but I can't believe people here acsually think the Rangers are ok with that offence. They lost Shanny, Straka, Jagr and Avery. Shanny still puts up a good 20-25 goals, Staka had a bellow average season but was really good in the playoffs, Jagr is stil one of the most dominent players in his position. He had a GREAT playoff performance. Finally, when Avery was out of the lineup the Rags lost 67% of ther games.

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07-05-2008, 03:43 PM
  #194
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I want to see Kovalev keep the clock on re-dial and see whether Streits importance on your (all-important) PP from last year is adequately replaced before thinking Montreal tops like most here do.

Personally I think most all of the threads made on this issue have a warped perception of Pittsburgh as being the team that was seen in the SC Finals.

The team that came second in the East regular season had gotten 12 games from Hossa. 12. Eaton was out pretty much all year. Crosby missed app. 25 games. Fleury went down for app. 45 games. Roberts was out more than half a season. Recchi got waived after Pens started atrociously and had locker room problems. Staal was in sophomore slump big time, and Malkin became Heart and Art Ross Trophy candidate only after Sid went down with injury. Colby was terrible. Christensen a non-factor. No playoff team in the East had more injuries to deal with, I think.

Sure, Pens are not as good as the team that tore up the East in the playoffs and its true that quite a few character guys are gone. But on paper we're quite a bit better than last years regular season Pens, and that is without factoring in the continued development of our numerous young players who are now hardened by a long playoff run.

Everything else being equal, we're not in the same position to make a splash as the deadline we were last year, or like Habs are this year, so by the deadline things could look very different. Until then, and at least until the season shows us signs of something else, I think we're the team to beat in a pretty open East.

Montreal, Philly, Jersey, Caps being the likeliest rivals. In that order, IMO.

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Old
07-05-2008, 04:49 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
Wow. Unless you have missed the last two years, there is zero way you can call Redden a "top flight all around defenseman."

Between Kalinin and Tyutin. Again, you are way off. Tyutin plays about 3 minutes more a game than Kalinin.

Kalinin essentially replaces Backman and frankly Backman is a better defenseman too.
Tyutin makes costly errors, which more than offsets his extra minutes or physicality.

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07-05-2008, 07:14 PM
  #196
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Tyutin makes costly errors, which more than offsets his extra minutes or physicality.
no more than Redden and Kalinin. In general, these are lateral moves by the Rangers.

Redden giveaways - 66 in 80
Kalinin - 25 in 46 games
Tyutin - 41 in 82 games

Redden minor penalties - 25 minors
Kalinin minor penalties - 16 minors in only 46 games
Tyutin minor penalties -19 minors

So despite the physicality, Tyutin takes less penalties, plays more minutes and less giveaways.

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07-06-2008, 08:05 AM
  #197
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i just hope that anyone that puts the habs on top are knocking on wood.
there is many potential 1st place team on the east right now. many many many

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07-06-2008, 08:13 AM
  #198
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i just hope that anyone that puts the habs on top are knocking on wood.
there is many potential 1st place team on the east right now. many many many
I agree, I didn't think we had a first place team last year and it showed clearly in the playoffs.(Imo a 6th-5th team finishing on top because of the underachieving sens and a bit of a lucky sequence against the Bs)

With Sundin we might enter the top 3, without him we could be anywhere from 8th to 1st, depending on injuries etc.

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07-06-2008, 08:17 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I agree, I didn't think we had a first place team last year and it showed clearly in the playoffs.(Imo a 6th-5th team finishing on top because of the underachieving sens and a bit of a lucky sequence against the Bs)

With Sundin we might enter the top 3, without him we could be anywhere from 8th to 1st, depending on injuries etc.
and 2 points more than pittsburgh, which is also getting better...

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07-06-2008, 10:30 AM
  #200
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Team Ranking

Meh...I see everyone is placing our team #1 #2 or #3 in the East. A lot of time I see people placing the Canadiens first or in among top teams in the East, now I wanted to know, after the 2006/2007 everyone was placing the Habs in the bottom, like 13-14-15. Against all odds, Montreal finished first in the East, if we place them 1st for the upcoming season, is it possible they actually finish 13-14-15??

Thoughts? Am I being paranoid and worriying for nothing or can I be right?

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