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A few thoughts from the outside about the 08/09 team....

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Old
07-08-2008, 11:00 PM
  #1
TFKforPres
 
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A few thoughts from the outside about the 08/09 team....

From what I've learned from non-Pens fans (like you really care what they think) about our 08/09 team from this board and other NHL boards is....

Penguins lost a lot of grit - True, losing Jarkko Ruutu, Georges Laraque, Gary Roberts and to a lesser extent, Ryan Malone will hurt. However we replaced them with Eric Godard who is similiar to Laraque, Cooke who is a better version or similiar versio to Ruutu. Even Fedetenko isn't afraid to throw down the gloves (only when he has to).

So even though we did lose some grit, we added some more. Won't be as good as last year but it won't be to a point where it's a huge difference.

2007/2008 Senators = 2008/2009 Penguins - It's true there are some similiarites. Most of the team coming back but replacing them with soild players. However, I just can't see a team with Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury failing. Of course I couldn't see a team of Heatley, Alfreddson, and Spezza failing so it could happen.

But what I think separates us from then is the team chemistry. Sure we lost a couple guys that we key to our chemistry but almost everyone else plays with each other well (even though Satan, Fedetenko, Cooke and Godard are unknowns at this point). But I just don't see a player or players being team distractions like Ottawa had with Emery.

Losing Ty Conklin was a big loss - This one I raise an eyebrow to. Sure Conklin was huge for us last year. A big reason why we were able to win A LOT of games during that stretch from December to March. However, if Fleury doesn't go down, it's not even close to a big loss.

Just wishful thinking that Fleury will get injured on most people's part.

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07-08-2008, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
Losing Ty Conklin was a big loss - This one I raise an eyebrow to. Sure Conklin was huge for us last year. A big reason why we were able to win A LOT of games during that stretch from December to March. However, if Fleury doesn't go down, it's not even close to a big loss.

Just wishful thinking that Fleury will get injured on most people's part.
I sure hope Fleury stays healthy. If he does get injured, goodbye playoffs.

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07-08-2008, 11:41 PM
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I sure hope Fleury stays healthy. If he does get injured, goodbye playoffs.
People would of said the same thing last season if they knew Crosby would miss 29 games, Fleury 35 games, Eaton 46 games, Roberts 44 games, etc. How many of you would of thought we would of made the playoffs with that happening? We won our division and almost the East with that happening. Everyone was making fun of Conklin when Shero picked him up last season. Go back and look at those posts. If Fleury goes down Shero would trade for a replacement and we would still make the playoffs. This team has too much talent which they proved last year and they just added more this offseason. You can't count the loss of Hossa because he only played 12 games during the regular season. The Pens proved last season they can still win even when they don't have their best player and #1 goalie. They will be fine.

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07-08-2008, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
People would of said the same thing last season if they knew Crosby would miss 29 games, Fleury 35 games, Eaton 46 games, Roberts 44 games, etc. How many of you would of thought we would of made the playoffs with that happening? We won our division and almost the East with that happening. Everyone was making fun of Conklin when Shero picked him up last season. Go back and look at those posts. If Fleury goes down Shero would trade for a replacement and we would still make the playoffs. This team has too much talent which they proved last year and they just added more this offseason. You can't count the loss of Hossa because he only played 12 games during the regular season. The Pens proved last season they can still win even when they don't have their best player and #1 goalie. They will be fine.
This isn't about Hossa. I'm satisfied that the team will come out of the preseason with enough scoring talent to fill the top six. Malkin and Sid can both carry the team offensively if the other goes down. And yes, the Pens proved that they could win with a competent goalie instead of a franchise goalie. But Dany Sabourin is not a competent goalie. He's a lousy goalie. It's extremely difficult to win hockey games with a lousy goalie.

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07-08-2008, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
This isn't about Hossa. I'm satisfied that the team will come out of the preseason with enough scoring talent to fill the top six. Malkin and Sid can both carry the team offensively if the other goes down. And yes, the Pens proved that they could win with a competent goalie instead of a franchise goalie. But Dany Sabourin is not a competent goalie. He's a lousy goalie. It's extremely difficult to win hockey games with a lousy goalie.
Did you read the whole post? Conklin was not even good enough to make the team last season and do you really think Shero would not trade for a goalie if Fleury went down and Sabourin was not doing the job? Several teams have good backups that could be had for a decent price that are as good as Conklin. I trust that Shero would find a way. Do you really think we would not make the playoffs if that happened.

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07-09-2008, 12:02 AM
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I'm not sure you can just say beforehand that an adequate goalie would be available if we needed him and when we needed him. I am sure Shero would do his best, but goalies aren't as common as scoring wingers, goons or 4-5th D-men. And if Sabourin starts as many games next year as Conklin did this year, I do think the Penguins would miss the playoffs.

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07-09-2008, 12:10 AM
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This is the bottom line. This team is better than the one that we had for most of last season and that team was 1 game from winning the East. Our D is more proven and has more depth. Fleury is more proven and better than he was going into last season. Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang, Kennedy, Talbot, Whitney, and Fleury all have another year of experience and what great experience it was. They all have played 3 years or less in the NHL and still are improving. Satan, Fedotenko, Cooke, Dupuis, and Gill are better than guys like Malone, Roberts, Ruutu, Armstrong, and EC. This team is just better than the team we had for most of last year and that is not even counting Crosby missing 29 games and Fleury missing 35.

Loss of grit? Roberts only played 38 games this year so we lost Ruutu and replaced with Cooke which is an improvement. We lost Malone and replaced with Fedotenko which is a little drop off but not as much as some would think. Malone's #'s were inflated last season. So the only other Grit guy we lost was Laraque who played 7 minutes a game. Godard will play less but still provide the same grit and maybe more. Laraque might be the best fighter but he was not a mean guy like some inforcers that are looking to kill people even when they are not fighting. Godard is a down grade but we are only talking a few minutes a game guys. Overall I don't see much differance in our team grit factor.


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07-09-2008, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
I'm not sure you can just say beforehand that an adequate goalie would be available if we needed him and when we needed him. I am sure Shero would do his best, but goalies aren't as common as scoring wingers, goons or 4-5th D-men. And if Sabourin starts as many games next year as Conklin did this year, I do think the Penguins would miss the playoffs.
Yes I can and I did.

I don't wish it to happen but I would take that bet and win.

His GAA was only .2 higher than Conklin's last season and he was 10-9 so lets not make him out to be the worst goalie in the league. 2.75 GAA and .904 SV% is right around what Fleury had in his 40 win season (2.83 GAA and .906 SV%).


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07-09-2008, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CrosbyMalkin View Post
Yes I can and I did.

I don't wish it to happen but I would take that bet and win.

His GAA was only .2 higher than Conklin's last season and he was 10-9 so lets not make him out to be the worst goalie in the league. 2.75 GAA and .904 SV% is right around what Fleury had in his 40 win season (2.83 GAA and .906 SV%).
Good call. Sabourin is by no means great. But he's not as bad as a lot of people like to make him out to be either. I'd be comfortable in calling him an average backup, and definitely not the worst in the league.

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07-09-2008, 01:59 AM
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Yeah I still don't get the Ty Conklin man crush everybody has? There is a good reason he started in Wilkes-Barre and has been a career backup. Fleury doesn't go down we don't even know his name at this point in the year. And Ruutu is not that big of a lose. Yes great guy would want him on my team most of time and fan favorite. But his antics defiantly hurt us in the some of the playoff games. I think the refs just got sick of him.

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07-09-2008, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
From what I've learned from non-Pens fans (like you really care what they think) about our 08/09 team from this board and other NHL boards is....

Penguins lost a lot of grit - True, losing Jarkko Ruutu, Georges Laraque, Gary Roberts and to a lesser extent, Ryan Malone will hurt. However we replaced them with Eric Godard who is similiar to Laraque, Cooke who is a better version or similiar versio to Ruutu. Even Fedetenko isn't afraid to throw down the gloves (only when he has to).
Erm...this is true. Godard isn't the fighter Laraque is and he's nowhere near the player, Cooke is NOT better than Ruutu and Fedotenko? Please. My grandma could beat him up.

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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
So even though we did lose some grit, we added some more. Won't be as good as last year but it won't be to a point where it's a huge difference.
We lost good players and we replaced them with players who aren't as good. It's a net loss any way you look at it. Now, the one way you could argue for it being a positive change is in the money it frees up. Malone was vastly overpaid. Laraque was paid fairly but the NTC would've been a tough pill to swallow.

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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
2007/2008 Senators = 2008/2009 Penguins - It's true there are some similiarites. Most of the team coming back but replacing them with soild players. However, I just can't see a team with Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury failing. Of course I couldn't see a team of Heatley, Alfreddson, and Spezza failing so it could happen.
But didn't we just fail? I'll say this, if we experience the injury problems the Sens had, then we certainly will. This is a very good team but we lost some pretty important secondary players. How well will the likes of Satan, Fedotenko, Cooke, Pesonen, etc, fill those rules? That'll go a long way towards determining our season's outcome. And we better pray Fleury's legit and that wasn't just a nice little streak he put together. We have no answer for replacing Hossa but that isn't a huge deal since he was only here for a bit, really.

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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
But what I think separates us from then is the team chemistry. Sure we lost a couple guys that we key to our chemistry but almost everyone else plays with each other well (even though Satan, Fedetenko, Cooke and Godard are unknowns at this point). But I just don't see a player or players being team distractions like Ottawa had with Emery.
Emery was a bad player but I think this team distraction thing is vastly overstated. You may not remember but he didn't play for them in the playoffs. Gerber did and he was brilliant. I don't think lil' MC Ray sitting on the bench had much to do with anything.

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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
Losing Ty Conklin was a big loss - This one I raise an eyebrow to. Sure Conklin was huge for us last year. A big reason why we were able to win A LOT of games during that stretch from December to March. However, if Fleury doesn't go down, it's not even close to a big loss.
Oh please, do you remember how awful Fleury was before Conklin stepped in? You can not overstate how essential Conklin was to our team success last year.

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07-09-2008, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreverup View Post
Yeah I still don't get the Ty Conklin man crush everybody has? There is a good reason he started in Wilkes-Barre and has been a career backup. Fleury doesn't go down we don't even know his name at this point in the year. And Ruutu is not that big of a lose. Yes great guy would want him on my team most of time and fan favorite. But his antics defiantly hurt us in the some of the playoff games. I think the refs just got sick of him.
Conklin has not been a career backup. He was a starting goalie in Edmonton, his career hit a snag and he bounced around for a bit before rebounding in Pittsburgh. Dany Sabourin, that's a career backup.

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07-09-2008, 06:44 AM
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From the perspective of a respectful Devils fan:

I liked 66 so I watch your team with interest.

1)The Pens will win the East

This team has much more skill than just about any team in the E. Of course their biggest competitors are NY and Philly, but the Pens forwards are so fast with good finish touch. I think you dominate the first 2 rounds and squeak into the finals. Grit will be a big problem. Cooke and Godard are not reliable hockey players.

2) The Pens will lose to the West again

The Pens lost to the Wings because Detroit's D was so smart in controlling the puck near the nz. It doesn't matter how offensively skilled your forwards are. They can never move faster than the puck.

Detroit, Ana, Dal, and SJ to a lesser extent are built around smart puck movement and sound D. You beat a team like that with smart D of your own. Pittsburg has not improved their D. Craig Rivet rather than Fedotenko would have been a smart fit. Letang is not going to go from healthy scratch to smart d man over one year. It doesn't happen. It will all depend on how good Whitney/Gonchar are and I don't see it. Orpik can throw hits. Congrats. He's also prone to spectacular gaffes. Jiri Hudler thanks him.

If you can't win with smart d, you try to beat puck possesion with 2 way forwards. I see Dupuis, Staal, Talbot, and Crosby as sound 2-way players with off skill. But I don't see that as sufficient. Remember everyone else also has 1 year of exp.

Sorry Pens fans but in all honesty I see a western team over Pit


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07-09-2008, 07:20 AM
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Oh please, do you remember how awful Fleury was before Conklin stepped in? You can not overstate how essential Conklin was to our team success last year.
i thought he won 6 straight before getting hurt... i remember the beginning of the season was rough, but after that he was solid until the injury

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07-09-2008, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
I sure hope Fleury stays healthy. If he does get injured, goodbye playoffs.
Is it just me, or is this exactly what people were saying last December right about the time everyone found out that Conklin was going to see significant playing time?

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07-09-2008, 07:48 AM
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i thought he won 6 straight before getting hurt... i remember the beginning of the season was rough, but after that he was solid until the injury
Yes, this is true. His good play started around Thanksgiving.

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07-09-2008, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TFKforPres View Post
2007/2008 Senators = 2008/2009 Penguins
Our Stanley Cup Goalie isn't a coke head, we don't have a ****** GM/coach to "fix" everything if things start to go wrong.

Oh yeahhh, and we have Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and MAF who will all be a year better. If you think about where we were at the beginning of last season to where we will be at the start of this season, I like our chances to win the division again.

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07-09-2008, 08:07 AM
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conks played 60 games out of 246 in edmonton and game 7 i believe of there SCF a few yrs back. i dont ever think he was their starter

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07-09-2008, 09:09 AM
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I don't think we will run roughshod over everybody in the 2nd half of the season the same way we did last year. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have a weaker team this year - and I am not even talking about Hossa.

But I doubt a team with Sid and Geno will struggle to qualify for the post-season.

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07-09-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Godard isn't the fighter Laraque is and he's nowhere near the player
Agree and still think letting Laraque go was probably our biggest mistake. Though that's a good sign, not a bad sign IMO. We didn't make any blunders....

Quote:
Cooke is NOT better than Ruutu
Actually in terms of hockey skills and all-around game, yes he is better, in almost every category. He is not however, tougher than Ruutu and he is not as good an agitator though Shero makes them sound about even in his mind, in that category.

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Fedotenko? Please. My grandma could beat him up.
He's not THAT bad. There are many players softer than Fedotenko, but I agree he is not likely to rough anyone up anytime soon.



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We lost good players and we replaced them with players who aren't as good. It's a net loss any way you look at it. .... How well will the likes of Satan, Fedotenko, Cooke, Pesonen, etc, fill those rules?
These two sentiments are contradictory in some sense. On one hand you're saying they're worse and on the other you're saying you don't know how big of an impact they can / will have, which btw, is the correct sentiment. Judging these guys (for any of us) now is just stupid. Camp hasn't even started yet. We have no idea who might have great chemistry with who or anything else.


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Oh please, do you remember how awful Fleury was before Conklin stepped in? You can not overstate how essential Conklin was to our team success last year.
Dude stop talking so sure of yourself because you're not saying anything that is obviously, incontrovertibly correct. Conks was huge for us but he also played out of his mind compared to what he had done in the recent past. There is zero guarantee he will do that again and Sabourin is capable of playing a very steady game if not spectacular so let's dispense with the "we're doomed if ____ gets hurt" concept. Last year Fleury AND Sid AND Max were all hurt at the same time at one point and we kept on winning so... do the math. Conklin didn't beat the other teams single-handedly.

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07-09-2008, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Super Reverse Homer View Post
I don't think we will run roughshod over everybody in the 2nd half of the season the same way we did last year. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have a weaker team this year - and I am not even talking about Hossa.

But I doubt a team with Sid and Geno will struggle to qualify for the post-season.
Maybe we'll start a little bit better then the last couple of years??

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07-09-2008, 10:25 AM
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Erm...this is true. Godard isn't the fighter Laraque is and he's nowhere near the player, Cooke is NOT better than Ruutu and Fedotenko? Please. My grandma could beat him up.



We lost good players and we replaced them with players who aren't as good. It's a net loss any way you look at it. Now, the one way you could argue for it being a positive change is in the money it frees up. Malone was vastly overpaid. Laraque was paid fairly but the NTC would've been a tough pill to swallow.
Ugh.. this is about as bad as an argument gets. Saying Laraque was a key loss... is just laughable. To discuss his contract... is even more laughable. Also... a reference was made to 1990... and I think we should at least give it a replay.

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Please. My grandma could beat him up.
Argument... validated?? You fail.


I think Zip said it best:

Quote:
Camp hasn't even started yet. We have no idea who might have great chemistry with who or anything else.
I know we all have some serious withdraw from hockey season being over... but we need to at least let camp start up!!! <including me>

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07-09-2008, 11:58 AM
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Dread Pirate Roberts
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Originally Posted by Foreverup View Post
Yeah I still don't get the Ty Conklin man crush everybody has? There is a good reason he started in Wilkes-Barre and has been a career backup. Fleury doesn't go down we don't even know his name at this point in the year. And Ruutu is not that big of a lose. Yes great guy would want him on my team most of time and fan favorite. But his antics defiantly hurt us in the some of the playoff games. I think the refs just got sick of him.
Conklin did kind of save the Penguins season last year. So yeah, if Fleury isn't injured, we're not discussing him.

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07-09-2008, 12:04 PM
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Losing BGL, Roberts, Malone, and Ruutu for Satan, Feds, Cooke, and Godard certainly improved our skating ability.

We did lose a good bit of toughness. Our current roster is better off than what we started last season with though.

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07-09-2008, 02:03 PM
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Anyone who thinks that the 07-08 Penguins were better at the beginning of the season than the 08-09 penguins are, on paper, you are nuts. No army, no christensen replaced by 2 better players, along with much better depth.

Cooke and Ruutu a wash, Fleury arguably much better, everyone a year older (which is the biggest thing for this team). The 08-09 penguins are a better team than the one that started 07-08.

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