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Bouwmeester Files For Arbitration

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Old
07-05-2008, 08:46 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias4Prez View Post
how is it clear that he wants out?
Well, I don't know for sure, but what I am guessing is that it is not a money issue because we all know how JM is with defencemen and one of Bouw's caliber definitely deserves some good cash, which is clearly available for JM to use. What else could it be other than that he wants out..

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07-05-2008, 08:47 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Haha, yeah I'm sure it's nice, depends on your preference. I grew up in South Florida and go to school in Gainesville in Northern FLA (we actually have about 2.5 seasons there relative to 1 in South Florida), but I live a year in rural Southwestern Ontario, Canada and generally visit there every summer. I've stacked hay bales myself and all lol, but definitely prefer South FLA to that even though I loved it when I was younger.

Anyways though, I was more poking fun at Bouwmeester's quiet and shy demeanor rather than anything else. I don't care for him, but I do think he's a great player. I think we could get back great players in a trade if we do the right moves, so hopefully Martin does what he needs to do.
my point is that everybody's different and though south florida has its good points, it's not for everyone. personally, i applaude jay if that's what he's doing - he's been the consumate professional while in FL, working hard night in and night out despite the state of the team. if he wants to live somewhere else, so be it. i'm still a FL fan (though i've done the same) though and hope we can make the best of the situation.

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07-05-2008, 08:57 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Robbinsr View Post
Anyone else feel he is still harboring animosity over not being drafted first overall and paid first overall money. Remember the Panthers drafted him and although holding the first overall pick traded down with Columbus so they could select Rick Nash (thus relegating Atlanta to drafting Kari Lehtonen).

I remember Bouwmeester being quite upset at the time (especially when it came time to sign his entry level contract).

In hindsight, I guess I would have rather had Rick Nash...
Me.

He never seemed to want to be a Panther. Have to give him his due though, he played well for us. Always.

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07-05-2008, 09:00 PM
  #79
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If Bouwmeester ended up getting traded to Philly, what would you guys want in return? What would be a fair trade?

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07-05-2008, 09:00 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
What about :

Ottawa: Jbo, and Van Ryn

Fla : Mazaros,Heatley, and a 1st rounder in 09
I know J-Bo is good and all, but this trade is terribly one sided. Meszaros is solid, and Heatley? He's a perennial 50 goal scorer! AND a 1st rounder? Van Ryn's worth is next to nothing. This trade would never happen.

I like this arbitration. I say we take the chance of proving to Bouw that we're good. I look at it this way. If we are REALLY gonna suck and are destined for another playoff-less season, trading Bouw for up-and-coming prospects wouldn't be so bad simply because we still obviously aren't developed enough to compete. Taking those young guys who could be NHL ready in 09-10 could be useful. Someone could severely overpay for Jay.

I really just think he wants to win. If we play well in the first half of the season, I could see Jay staying on board and signing with us. (Another acquisition up front wouldn't hurt either Jacques!)

So either way, I don't mind this. There's upside in both situations. The bottom line is that he is in our hands now. We own him and we can move him or keep him (well, only for so long).

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07-05-2008, 09:10 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jok-AtTheDriveIn-en View Post
I know J-Bo is good and all, but this trade is terribly one sided. Meszaros is solid, and Heatley? He's a perennial 50 goal scorer! AND a 1st rounder? Van Ryn's worth is next to nothing. This trade would never happen.

I like this arbitration. I say we take the chance of proving to Bouw that we're good. I look at it this way. If we are REALLY gonna suck and are destined for another playoff-less season, trading Bouw for up-and-coming prospects wouldn't be so bad simply because we still obviously aren't developed enough to compete. Taking those young guys who could be NHL ready in 09-10 could be useful. Someone could severely overpay for Jay.

I really just think he wants to win. If we play well in the first half of the season, I could see Jay staying on board and signing with us. (Another acquisition up front wouldn't hurt either Jacques!)

So either way, I don't mind this. There's upside in both situations. The bottom line is that he is in our hands now. We own him and we can move him or keep him (well, only for so long).

How about
Ott:
Jbo,VanRyn,and Dvorak

Fl: Mezaros,and Heatley

I know Dvo isn't an all star player, but he's a great 3rd line player,lost of speed,great on PK,and gives 110% every game. I took out the #1 draft pick from Ott side, I am sure its still lopsided but just trying to make some decent trade proposal.

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07-05-2008, 09:18 PM
  #82
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Heatley is not going to be traded for Bouwmeester

*****************SIGH*********************

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07-05-2008, 09:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sinDer View Post
Heatley is not going to be traded for Bouwmeester

*****************SIGH*********************
thank-you, i hope that is clear right now. You can go ahead and add Spezza and Alfredsson to that list as well

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07-05-2008, 09:24 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jok-AtTheDriveIn-en View Post
I like this arbitration. I say we take the chance of proving to Bouw that we're good. I look at it this way. If we are REALLY gonna suck and are destined for another playoff-less season, trading Bouw for up-and-coming prospects wouldn't be so bad simply because we still obviously aren't developed enough to compete. Taking those young guys who could be NHL ready in 09-10 could be useful. Someone could severely overpay for Jay.
it doesn't work that way. no team is going to tear apart their minor league system for a two month rental of bouwmeester. hossa netted a 3rd liner, a dissapointing prospect and a late first.

brian campbell netted a good young, yet dissapointing (who they've already traded....) player and a first.

simply doesn't work that way. you either sign him now, or trade him now. there's no other option IMO.

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07-05-2008, 09:26 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
How about
Ott:
Jbo,VanRyn,and Dvorak

Fl: Mezaros,and Heatley

I know Dvo isn't an all star player, but he's a great 3rd line player,lost of speed,great on PK,and gives 110% every game. I took out the #1 draft pick from Ott side, I am sure its still lopsided but just trying to make some decent trade proposal.
you're not even close with these deals man. heatley isn't going to be traded and if he was, he's worth just as much as bouwmeester.

dvorak and van ryn would never net a 22 yo defensman like meszaros. they're both pretty much worthless on the trade market.

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07-05-2008, 10:11 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Danny Tanner View Post
it doesn't work that way. no team is going to tear apart their minor league system for a two month rental of bouwmeester. hossa netted a 3rd liner, a dissapointing prospect and a late first.

brian campbell netted a good young, yet dissapointing (who they've already traded....) player and a first.

simply doesn't work that way. you either sign him now, or trade him now. there's no other option IMO.
Thats right. No one is going to be happy with what we get back for Bouwmeester. Certainly not going to get back equal value. But there is free agency, where you get to use the $7million you would have to pay him on someone else.
At the end of the day, you can only spend $56.7 anyway. So if its not on player A, it will be on player B.
New Jersey lost Neids and Ralfalski and got nothing back in return. ZERO. It happens. If you have a good GM, the beat goes on. As it has in New Jersey. Lets see if we have a good GM.

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07-05-2008, 10:16 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Booth10 View Post
Thats right. No one is going to be happy with what we get back for Bouwmeester. Certainly not going to get back equal value. But there is free agency, where you get to use the $7million you would have to pay him on someone else.
At the end of the day, you can only spend $56.7 anyway. So if its not on player A, it will be on player B.
New Jersey lost Neids and Ralfalski and got nothing back in return. ZERO. It happens. If you have a good GM, the beat goes on. As it has in New Jersey. Lets see if we have a good GM.
disagree. if we deal him now - we should be able to maximize his value as the team he is dealt to will have at least a month to try and re-sign him....and if the rumors are true, they probably could get it done assuming it's a team with a competitive past.

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07-05-2008, 10:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Danny Tanner View Post
disagree. if we deal him now - we should be able to maximize his value as the team he is dealt to will have at least a month to try and re-sign him....and if the rumors are true, they probably could get it done assuming it's a team with a competitive past.
Do you think Rolston would have signed in Tampa if they had a month to sign him?

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07-05-2008, 10:35 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Matthias4Prez View Post
Do you think Rolston would have signed in Tampa if they had a month to sign him?
No one knows but if he was playing down there for a month he might change his mind. Maybe he decides he loves the city, maybe he decides he loves the weather, maybe he has good chemistry with his teammates....Maybe he still doesn't like Tampa, and doesn't sign...No way to know.

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07-05-2008, 10:41 PM
  #90
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No one knows but if he was playing down there for a month he might change his mind. Maybe he decides he loves the city, maybe he decides he loves the weather, maybe he has good chemistry with his teammates....Maybe he still doesn't like Tampa, and doesn't sign...No way to know.
I'm just saying there is uncertainty there, that lowers the value... I mean look at Dan Boyle, he is an allstar dman that was trying to be unloaded, he is locked up for 6 years thats why he was able to get the return they got... then look at brian campbell, at the deadline he wasnt signed and the sharks lost him and buffalo got bernier and a 1st, bernier was then traded for a 2nd and 3rd... so buffalo got a 1st 2nd and 3rd for Campbell who is my eyes is as good as Bo, most would say he is better.

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07-05-2008, 10:54 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Matthias4Prez View Post
Do you think Rolston would have signed in Tampa if they had a month to sign him?
ummm...i'm not sure...but what's the point? bouwmeester's situation and rolston's are totally different as rolston was just a few days from testing the waters while bouwmeester is still a year away...

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07-05-2008, 10:57 PM
  #92
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I'm just saying there is uncertainty there, that lowers the value... I mean look at Dan Boyle, he is an allstar dman that was trying to be unloaded, he is locked up for 6 years thats why he was able to get the return they got... then look at brian campbell, at the deadline he wasnt signed and the sharks lost him and buffalo got bernier and a 1st, bernier was then traded for a 2nd and 3rd... so buffalo got a 1st 2nd and 3rd for Campbell who is my eyes is as good as Bo, most would say he is better.
most were amazed tampa got as much as they did for boyle as he is overpaid by a good deal. just because san jose made a bad deal doesn't make it the norm.

if anything, what tampa got for boyle helps our cause as it proves how desperate teams really are for top-end defensmen....and boyle couldn't hold bouwmeesters jock in regards to two-way play.

and what you said about campbell is my point. if we deal bouwmeester now - we should still maximize his value as teams will still have a full year to re-sign him. something that they should have no problem doing as they aren't "florida". right now he is still viewed as 24 year old franchise defensman who teams can build around. we'll get an arm and a leg.

if we wait till the deadline to deal him...well....then that's where we're going to get spare parts and iffy prospects because we waited too long and now he's just viewed as a "rental".

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07-06-2008, 12:04 AM
  #93
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Not to stray off topic, but how did you become a panthers fan all the way out in Calgary?
I don't know really? A new team,fresh start when they came into the league...same as my brother with the Ducks. Penguins fan as a young kid (loved the crackie' Kevin Stevens) ,my brother kind of liked the Oilers because family is from there,then he switched to the Ducks at the same time. He loved those Mighty Ducks movies I guess

Both of us were never really Flames fans' even though friends/family try to brainwash us.

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07-06-2008, 12:38 AM
  #94
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I think we all agree it'll be next to impossible to replace Jay Bouwmeester, but how do you calculate just how much a year of Jay is really worth? Well you can't, but let's consider that he's played 389 NHL games to date. Now add the coming year (82 games) plus the maximum number of playoffs appearances (28) and you get another 100 games. That (potentially) adds up to more than 25% of his career to date. Yeah, as many as 100 more games that he remains under contract to the Florida Panthers.

Some of our friends here have suggested that asking for another team's best blue chip prospect(s) and/or their top player(s) would be an unreasonable demand. IMO they are underestimating Jay's true worth...and overestimating untested prospects. It's also my opinion that accepting lower liners, picks and prospects as full payment in exchange for Jay would be a mistake. I realize players secured by longer contracts at reasonable dollars do have added value but a couple of lower liners don't equate to a player of Jay's caliber and picks and prospects don't always pan out.

Now let's say we keep Jay and, wonder of wonders make it into the playoffs. What's that worth to you and to the Florida Panthers? What if we were to go deep into the playoffs...maybe even make the conference finals? ..worth even more right? Care to dream a bit further? If not, why are you here?

My point is that as things stand today, even IF Jay has decided he'd prefer to ply his trade elsewhere for the balance of his NHL career, the Panther are owed another full year of Jay's contributions and that has tremendous worth. So all I'm saying is don't sell him short, and value quality over quantity.

And if the worst should happen and the Panthers are doomed to miss the playoffs yet again, just ask around if trading Jay at the deadline will bring a strong return. My bet is you'll be reassured that there's no reason to rush.

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07-06-2008, 12:59 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Heimy View Post
I think we all agree it'll be next to impossible to replace Jay Bouwmeester, but how do you calculate just how much a year of Jay is really worth? Well you can't, but let's consider that he's played 389 NHL games to date. Now add the coming year (82 games) plus the maximum number of playoffs appearances (28) and you get another 100 games. That (potentially) adds up to more than 25% of his career to date. Yeah, as many as 100 more games that he remains under contract to the Florida Panthers.

Some of our friends here have suggested that asking for another team's best blue chip prospect(s) and/or their top player(s) would be an unreasonable demand. IMO they are underestimating Jay's true worth...and overestimating untested prospects. It's also my opinion that accepting lower liners, picks and prospects as full payment in exchange for Jay would be a mistake. I realize players secured by longer contracts at reasonable dollars do have added value but a couple of lower liners don't equate to a player of Jay's caliber and picks and prospects don't always pan out.

Now let's say we keep Jay and, wonder of wonders make it into the playoffs. What's that worth to you and to the Florida Panthers? What if we were to go deep into the playoffs...maybe even make the conference finals? ..worth even more right? Care to dream a bit further? If not, why are you here?

My point is that as things stand today, even IF Jay has decided he'd prefer to ply his trade elsewhere for the balance of his NHL career, the Panther are owed another full year of Jay's contributions and that has tremendous worth. So all I'm saying is don't sell him short, and value quality over quantity.

And if the worst should happen and the Panthers are doomed to miss the playoffs yet again, just ask around if trading Jay at the deadline will bring a strong return. My bet is you'll be reassured that there's no reason to rush.
couldn't disagree with you anymore heimy....

the most important role of a general manager is to manage assets correctly. and while you're right that right now bouwmeester is a tremendous asset, come march of 2009, he won't be anymore. he'll go from being considered a franchise defensman to a "rental" on the open market in a matter of months.

the return we get now will be substantial. the return we will get then will not be. it's as simple as that. and waiting until the deadline to deal him is not managing assets correctly.

could be contend for a playoff spot? sure - but whos to say bouwmeester will re-sign even if we do? he'll be two months away from being an unrestricted free agent....chances are he waits and sees what else is out there, especially with how insane GM's are in free agency now. it's almost a sure thing he does. it's just not worth the risk.

we made this mistake with jokinen, apperantly. rumors for years that he was going to be dealt, but we waited too long and his "character issues" leaked out after this year that found him in the middle of alot of controversy.

we can't afford to do it again with bouwmeester. we just can't afford to lose our best forward and best defensmen both and not get what they are worth.

if an offer such as the one ottawa supposedly has on the table to us...we should take it and not think twice. that's a deal i'd consider doing even if jay WAS willing to sign long term...let alone in the position we seem to be in now.

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07-06-2008, 03:02 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Tanner View Post
couldn't disagree with you anymore heimy....

the most important role of a general manager is to manage assets correctly. and while you're right that right now bouwmeester is a tremendous asset, come march of 2009, he won't be anymore. he'll go from being considered a franchise defensman to a "rental" on the open market in a matter of months.

the return we get now will be substantial. the return we will get then will not be. it's as simple as that. and waiting until the deadline to deal him is not managing assets correctly.

could be contend for a playoff spot? sure - but whos to say bouwmeester will re-sign even if we do? he'll be two months away from being an unrestricted free agent....chances are he waits and sees what else is out there, especially with how insane GM's are in free agency now. it's almost a sure thing he does. it's just not worth the risk.

we made this mistake with jokinen, apperantly. rumors for years that he was going to be dealt, but we waited too long and his "character issues" leaked out after this year that found him in the middle of alot of controversy.

we can't afford to do it again with bouwmeester. we just can't afford to lose our best forward and best defensmen both and not get what they are worth.

if an offer such as the one ottawa supposedly has on the table to us...we should take it and not think twice. that's a deal i'd consider doing even if jay WAS willing to sign long term...let alone in the position we seem to be in now.
+1

We have to manage our assets correctly, and we will only maximize our return if he is moved soon. Only JM knows if Bouw wants to really be here or not, so he needs to decide whats best for the team. Just like its stated above, if Ottawa were to offer Vermette and Meszaros, the team has to take the offer. Sure we lose Jay, but we gain a very good, younger Dman and a young, talented centerman who could turn into something special for us. We would still have a good defensive core, but the plus is that we would role out three good scoring lines. Its all about balancing your lines out, especially for a small market team like us.

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07-06-2008, 03:38 AM
  #97
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In my mind, any deal for Bouwmeester has to start and possibly end (depending on the quality) with a scoring line center coming back in return. Face it, no team that is going to trade for Bouwmeester is going to trade you a similar quality blueliner in return. You're going to get more of what the Panthers already have on the roster. The Jokinen trade makes sense now because JM traded his top scoring line center to fill the coming void of Bouwmeester's departure. What the Panthers have lost in quality on the blueline has been replaced by depth in serviceable defensemen. Now it's time JM trades Bouw for Jokinen's replacement. With that trade and the signing of Stillman will the Panthers be better in 2008/09? Possibly and perhaps even likely.

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07-06-2008, 04:20 AM
  #98
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In my mind, any deal for Bouwmeester has to start and possibly end (depending on the quality) with a scoring line center coming back in return. Face it, no team that is going to trade for Bouwmeester is going to trade you a similar quality blueliner in return. You're going to get more of what the Panthers already have on the roster. The Jokinen trade makes sense now because JM traded his top scoring line center to fill the coming void of Bouwmeester's departure. What the Panthers have lost in quality on the blueline has been replaced by depth in serviceable defensemen. Now it's time JM trades Bouw for Jokinen's replacement. With that trade and the signing of Stillman will the Panthers be better in 2008/09? Possibly and perhaps even likely.
I think Armageddon is upon us. I completely agree with everything GP has written here.


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07-06-2008, 05:59 AM
  #99
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In my mind, any deal for Bouwmeester has to start and possibly end (depending on the quality) with a scoring line center coming back in return. Face it, no team that is going to trade for Bouwmeester is going to trade you a similar quality blueliner in return. You're going to get more of what the Panthers already have on the roster. The Jokinen trade makes sense now because JM traded his top scoring line center to fill the coming void of Bouwmeester's departure. What the Panthers have lost in quality on the blueline has been replaced by depth in serviceable defensemen. Now it's time JM trades Bouw for Jokinen's replacement. With that trade and the signing of Stillman will the Panthers be better in 2008/09? Possibly and perhaps even likely.
That is a very good point. And like in Olli trade, JM probably is looking for a 23-26 year old player to join our core. Perhaps Mikko Koivu from Minnesota is one possibility. I think one of the reasons Olli was traded may have been his age. Panthers core will hit it's prime in 3-4 years, Olli will probably be on decline by then.


Last edited by Kaptah: 07-06-2008 at 07:34 AM.
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07-06-2008, 06:42 AM
  #100
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It's not happening, we have the money to sign him and it doesn't look like its happening. Clearly he wants out or there is something else going on??
Maybe he's sick of the heat, bugs, reptiles, and hurricanes. Or maybe, like all of us here, he's sick of losing all the time.

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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
In my mind, any deal for Bouwmeester has to start and possibly end (depending on the quality) with a scoring line center coming back in return. Face it, no team that is going to trade for Bouwmeester is going to trade you a similar quality blueliner in return. You're going to get more of what the Panthers already have on the roster. The Jokinen trade makes sense now because JM traded his top scoring line center to fill the coming void of Bouwmeester's departure. What the Panthers have lost in quality on the blueline has been replaced by depth in serviceable defensemen. Now it's time JM trades Bouw for Jokinen's replacement. With that trade and the signing of Stillman will the Panthers be better in 2008/09? Possibly and perhaps even likely.
I completely agree!

I'm resigned to the fact we're most likely going to lose Bo. Let's just hope we don't lose him for nothing.

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