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Toronto signed the wrong defenseman

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Old
07-06-2008, 08:27 AM
  #1
The Fuhr*
 
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Toronto signed the wrong defenseman



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16043

Daniel Tolensky did a statistical breakdown of Finger compared to Sauer.

Here is just a piece of the article


It is really well done. Only in Toronto do they sign the wrong defenseman to a massively inflated contract.

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07-06-2008, 08:30 AM
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Kikizaz
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doesn't all this say, is that Kurt Sauer was used more often as a defensive defenseman? Im not a fan of the finger deal, but this skews the argument a bit considering finger probably was used differently. check total icetime.

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07-06-2008, 08:34 AM
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This was a potential move, Sauer has been the same D-man over the last 5 years. Finger has accelerated his development within the last 2-3 years and going with that they want to see where he can get in the next 3-2 years.

People need to find something better to do, especially this Tolensky who spent all that time to try to prove something he probably knows nothing about.

Give it up people and actually wait and he him play a season before bashing even more.

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07-06-2008, 08:37 AM
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As if there weren't enough jokes about Finger already, now a new, unnecessary and stupid thread.

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07-06-2008, 08:43 AM
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Jeffler
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Breaking news: People need another 1000000000 excuses to make fun of the Leafs, more nose rubbing regarding finger ensues.

I don't expect much out of Jeff Finger next year, but if he turns out to be an amazing defenceman you guys are really going to look like morons...quit while you're ahead.

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07-06-2008, 08:46 AM
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Hey buddy, you're late by like three days.. Everyone has seen this.

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07-06-2008, 08:50 AM
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arrbez
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On a per-game basis, Finger had Sauer beaten in icetime, hits, blocks, goals, assists and had fewer giveaways and also fewer PIM's despite fighting and hitting more often.

Ridiculous contract aside, Toronto got the right player.

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07-06-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
On a per-game basis, Finger had Sauer beaten in icetime, hits, blocks, goals, assists and had fewer giveaways and also fewer PIM's despite fighting and hitting more often.

Ridiculous contract aside, Toronto got the right player.
Perhaps if they had the same contract, you could argue that, but any Toronto fan should already be sensitive to overpaying defencemen, given their recent history. You cannot put the "Ridiculous contract aside"...

So, Finger got more icetime, but against lesser players (didn't play against 1st line players). No wonder he got more points, less giveaways, more blocks... Good job

Toronto will be ridiculed all year for this signing. Finger was not a bad player to acquire, but that contract was insane! Comparisons are difficult, but honestly, no leaf fan should say they would rather have signed Finger over Sauer, even if both were at the same contract amount, which they weren't...

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Old
07-06-2008, 08:59 AM
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[mindless Leaf hater mode]HA HA!!1 FINGERS! 1967. MAKE ME LAFFS!![/mindless Leaf hater mode]

What a ridiculous story. Yeah, the Leafs signed the wrong defenseman. Cliff saw the "-er" on the name in the contract and it looked close enough so he just went with it. Come on people, let's be serious. If Daniel Tolensky thinks we should've signed Sauer instead, that's fine, that's his opinion. But the Leafs knew who they were signing - the implication that they "got confused" is the funny part. We'll see if it ends up being the right decision.


Last edited by Gutchecktime: 07-06-2008 at 09:04 AM.
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07-06-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabs View Post
As if there weren't enough jokes about Finger already, now a new, unnecessary and stupid thread.
wow, people are pretty defensive here.

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07-06-2008, 09:06 AM
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Northern Dancer
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To lazy to supply the links, but 16 teams were after Finger, 6 teams offerred the same money, he signed with Toronto after talking to Ron Wilson. Man, must be lots of very stupid people around the NHL.

Wonder why Daniel Tolensky isn't running an NHL team instead of being a un-paid blogger !!!!

Laugh at the Leafs all you want but I would value Cliff Fletcher's hockey knowledge just a tad higher than Tolensky !!!

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07-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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doubt it.

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07-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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Northern Dancer
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Originally Posted by The SilverCup View Post
wow, people are pretty defensive here.
Well he is right, there are several threads on this matter already, why this??

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07-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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Well Fletcher and Wilson's quotes both make him sound like the best defensive D on the Avs last year..... Jeff Finger, who was a healthy scratch vs Detroit in the playoffs....

Something doesn't match up between the quotes and the player....

Why that is; i don't know its intriguing....

I don't think they got the wrong guy, i just think they are overhyping the guy they got.

I also think ron wilson needs to look at what happened to paul maurice after the "We'll make the playoffs and compete for the Stanley cup" quote last fall.....

Be honest with the toronto media... most of them can see you are rebuilding... .tell them... Ron or Cliff should have said something like this... "Look we signed this D out of colorado, some people think we overpaid, I don't.... i think hes a good defenceman, who has lots of potential and who showed last season that he can play in the league.... I think you'll see him improve and this is a good move for the leafs." Be positive but don't sugarcoat stuff.

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07-06-2008, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
To lazy to supply the links, but 16 teams were after Finger, 6 teams offerred the same money, he signed with Toronto after talking to Ron Wilson. Man, must be lots of very stupid people around the NHL.

Wonder why Daniel Tolensky isn't running an NHL team instead of being a un-paid blogger !!!!

Laugh at the Leafs all you want but I would value Cliff Fletcher's hockey knowledge just a tad higher than Tolensky !!!
**** laziness, links please.

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Old
07-06-2008, 09:10 AM
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I don't think they got the wrong guy, i just think they are overhyping the guy they got.
See, that reason is a lot more realistic than the "We thought we signed Kurt Sauer! Crap!" story.

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07-06-2008, 09:14 AM
  #17
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I read a report today in the TO Sun that there was at least two other NHL GM's that were considering signing Finger as a number 4 d-man. The going rate for #4 d-men on the UFA market is in the 3-4mil/year range. Maybe Fletch is taking some undeserved flack here. After all he is the guy who took Sylvain Lefebre off the NHL scrap heap and had enough confidence in him to make him a very solid top 4 guy.

I think if the guy's last name was Smith, and not the ridiculous last name he was born with, this deal would have been received alot more favourably for the Leafs.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 07-06-2008 at 09:20 AM.
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07-06-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Well Fletcher and Wilson's quotes both make him sound like the best defensive D on the Avs last year..... Jeff Finger, who was a healthy scratch vs Detroit in the playoffs....

Something doesn't match up between the quotes and the player....

Why that is; i don't know its intriguing....

I don't think they got the wrong guy, i just think they are overhyping the guy they got.

I also think ron wilson needs to look at what happened to paul maurice after the "We'll make the playoffs and compete for the Stanley cup" quote last fall.....

Be honest with the toronto media... most of them can see you are rebuilding... .tell them... Ron or Cliff should have said something like this... "Look we signed this D out of colorado, some people think we overpaid, I don't.... i think hes a good defenceman, who has lots of potential and who showed last season that he can play in the league.... I think you'll see him improve and this is a good move for the leafs." Be positive but don't sugarcoat stuff.
Ron Wilson said he was "out of gas". If you look at the stats, he did average the most ice time in the playoffs.

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07-06-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Well Fletcher and Wilson's quotes both make him sound like the best defensive D on the Avs last year..... Jeff Finger, who was a healthy scratch vs Detroit in the playoffs....

Something doesn't match up between the quotes and the player....

Why that is; i don't know its intriguing....

I don't think they got the wrong guy, i just think they are overhyping the guy they got.

I also think ron wilson needs to look at what happened to paul maurice after the "We'll make the playoffs and compete for the Stanley cup" quote last fall.....

Be honest with the toronto media... most of them can see you are rebuilding... .tell them... Ron or Cliff should have said something like this... "Look we signed this D out of colorado, some people think we overpaid, I don't.... i think hes a good defenceman, who has lots of potential and who showed last season that he can play in the league.... I think you'll see him improve and this is a good move for the leafs." Be positive but don't sugarcoat stuff.
Exactly, they were claiming Finger was a good shutdown D

I'd also like to see those links, btw. If 6 other teams offered Finger that kind of dough, then NHL GMs are crazier than I thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Ron Wilson said he was "out of gas". If you look at the stats, he did average the most ice time in the playoffs.
I watched many Avs games last year and, boy, Finger did not play the hardest minutes. He was definitely not the best Avs D and Quenneville just liked to use him because he pinched in a lot which fits with Quenneville's preference for a cycle down low.

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Old
07-06-2008, 09:28 AM
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Who really cares?

Toronto signs a defenseman and everyone criticizes them for it? You think any of your teams didn't GROSSLY overpay for anyone? Every single free agent short of maybe 1 or 2 were overpayed.

Finger will turn out to be a good signing, and I'm down for Leaf bashing any day, but sometimes you gotta just give it a rest man.

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Old
07-06-2008, 09:29 AM
  #21
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I still want to see the incriminating photos of Fletcher that Finger brought to the negotiating table.

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Old
07-06-2008, 09:37 AM
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arrbez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCanadian View Post
Perhaps if they had the same contract, you could argue that, but any Toronto fan should already be sensitive to overpaying defencemen, given their recent history. You cannot put the "Ridiculous contract aside"...
We're arguing which guy was the "right" (read: best) player, not which guy got the best contract. Hence, money is not the question here. Playing ability is the question, and Finger was the better player.

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07-06-2008, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
We're arguing which guy was the "right" (read: best) player, not which guy got the best contract. Hence, money is not the question here. Playing ability is the question, and Finger was the better player.
Finger is the better 2nd pairing defenceman. Did not play against the other team's better players.

Sauer is the better top pairing defenceman. Quality guy, who logged lots of minutes against the teams more dominant players (harder to play against).

I wonder why Finger didn't play against the other teams' better players and Sauer did?

Finger is a solid acquisition, no question, but you overpaid huge for him. Sauer was a steal, and I wish my team had gotten him. If you could only add one of them, there is no question you take the guy who has been depended upon to face the better players in the league, IMO, not the one who got "easier" minutes against 2nd/3rd/4th lines.

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Old
07-06-2008, 09:54 AM
  #24
Duke Silver
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Hits:
Finger - 121
Sauer - 48

Blocked Shots:
Finger - 117
Sauer - 59

That tells you something about this comparison, doesn't it?

The only prominent category Sauer has an edge in is +/-, with his +17 beating Finger's +12. That's not a large difference.

For them both being defensive d-men, offensively Finger also holds the edge in goals, assists, and points.

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07-06-2008, 09:55 AM
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lol i thought this thread was going to be about accidentally signing frogren from sweden instead of another guy they actually wanted

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