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Toronto signed the wrong defenseman

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Old
07-06-2008, 02:45 PM
  #51
Leeroy Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobias Industries View Post
I only read writers who have never made a bad call...


I don't read often..
I just saying he wrote a similar article using stats to suggest the Ribiero signing was a joke.

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Old
07-06-2008, 03:47 PM
  #52
Golden Foppa
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Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
As an Avs fan I'd rather have Finger than Sauer if having to choose between the two at the same price. Clearly, Finger doesn't deserve the contract he got, but to say hear the implication that Sauer is better is in my personal opinion dead wrong.
Agreed. Kurt Sauer is not a better defenseman than Jeff Finger. Maybe better as a defensive defenseman, but not better overall. When was the last time you saw Kurt Sauer pinch in down the slot and score a clutch goal? My guess is never. Finger has done it a few times in his brief NHL career. I think Finger is a better hitter than Sauer and he'll fight way more often as well. I'll take Finger over Sauer any day, but he still is badly overpaid with his new contract.

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07-06-2008, 03:48 PM
  #53
Gobias Industries
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeroy Jenkins View Post
I just saying he wrote a similar article using stats to suggest the Ribiero signing was a joke.
Still, are you suggesting statistics should never be used for analysis?...

I think it was a well written article that's getting spun quite a bit in this thread...

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Old
07-07-2008, 12:59 AM
  #54
Gwyddbwyll
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It is amazing how many people in this thread have not bothered to actually read the article or understand the point of it and yet still have time to rush in and make a (completely irrelevant) point. Even funnier when they try to use a to "prove" something again irrelevant to the thread and think their 3 second stat on hits or something trumps the analysis made in the article.

READ the article people. It's discussing the quotes from Toronto management about Finger. Based on the stats, Sauer fits the claims better than Finger.

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07-07-2008, 01:35 AM
  #55
Sebastien Centomo
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Originally Posted by HOCKEYGOON View Post
Anybody know why Finger was a scratch in the playoffs?

This is the only thing that confuses me.... why was he counted on to play 20 minutes a game all year... put up a +12 and then get benched in the playoffs?

Just doesn't add up.....
Watch this video:

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20072008,3,173

The last goal, five minutes in.

I was expecting a lot worse. Finger misread the puck and instead of it going around the net it hit the back of it and stopped. More of a bad bounce than a boneheaded play.

Quenneville said that it was an emotional decision and that he regretted it.

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Old
07-07-2008, 01:55 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post


It is really well done. Only in Toronto do they sign the wrong defenseman to a massively inflated contract.
You know whats funny?

Reading a fan of the team who after game 20 was the absolute worst team in the NHL making fun of another team.

A fan of a Canadian team who could not even sell out a playoff game making fun of another team.

I would suggest you take this sort of pap and spam your little board with it. Maybe someone will "dig it" over there

If you actually believe this to be true then you are dumber than I thought you are (and considering you were the brainiac who declared the Senators better than the 77 Habs last year pre collapse it would be an achievement)

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Old
07-07-2008, 03:03 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Poignant Discussion View Post
You know whats funny?

Reading a fan of the team who after game 20 was the absolute worst team in the NHL making fun of another team.

A fan of a Canadian team who could not even sell out a playoff game making fun of another team.

I would suggest you take this sort of pap and spam your little board with it. Maybe someone will "dig it" over there

If you actually believe this to be true then you are dumber than I thought you are (and considering you were the brainiac who declared the Senators better than the 77 Habs last year pre collapse it would be an achievement)
LMAO- This could very well be THE greatest post on any board I've ever read haha. Not only completely valid points about how much the Sens are just breakdown artists that have perfect their craft. But Poignant Discussion, do you blame Sens fans for not showing up to fill their building in a PO game, considering the abundance of clutch success they have.

On Topic: Finger, in the real world prior to this ridiculous off-season of mind-boggling moves, is NOT worth 3.5m. He's a 1.75-2m tops defensive Dman, which is what Sauer got. Is he a better player than Sauer? Based on his first full season's stats vs Sauer, IMHO yes, he is a better player. Realistically, is he vastly overpaid? Absolutely, but consider what the other UFA's and even the RFA's have stolen from GMs, Finger's deal fits in better than handing more money than needed to McCabe and Kubina a couple yrs ago.

It's too early to tell, but I'm actually very impressed with his hits, blocks and +/- totals for an unheard of guy who's no better than 4th on our defence at this time and considering he's "rubbish" according to some Leaf flaming writers, bloggers and posters. Obviously, the guy has double the heart a lot of the Leaf players showed 3/4 of last year. I'm more than willing to give him an objective "shot" rather than subjectively ruling him out as a complete blown deal based on our history and flamer writers' beliefs.

If someone can provide his Giveaways - Takeaways stat I'd be greatful. It CAN'T be worse than McCabe, can it?

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Old
07-07-2008, 03:14 AM
  #58
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I just like we are comparing two St. Cloud guys here regardless of what's said.

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07-07-2008, 08:03 AM
  #59
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Based on what's happened since the lockout, I'm not sure you can call the Leafs defence contracts inflated.....

There's a market for Kubina and Mccabe if they could agree like Boyle did to waive their no movement clause ... and there's certainly a market for Kaberle. they're contracts are movable....

So Finger was scratched for part of the playoffs ... he still managed to crack a defence that featured Liles, Clark, Hannan, Salei, Leopold, Sauer & Foote for half the games as a minimum wager..... that's not bad if you ask me.... with only looking at their trade deadline acquisitions, I'm guessing he lost his spot to a guy who was on the tail end of a 4.5 milll per (foote) contract and another guy in the middle of a 3 mill per (salei) contract.

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Old
07-07-2008, 08:08 AM
  #60
Duke Silver
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Finger had a wrist injury that kept him out for 6 games.

Regardless, he played 72 games. That's well over half.

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Old
07-07-2008, 08:10 AM
  #61
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Groan... whatever.

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Old
07-07-2008, 08:13 AM
  #62
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I miss the times when you really had to be a star to make top dollars. Nowadays you barely have to lift a finger to cash in. Lets point the accusing finger at Fletcher and say "you got fingered!"

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Old
07-07-2008, 08:27 AM
  #63
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He will be bought out next offseason. Face it Leafs fans, this is a horrible signing and you're going to have to endure it being mentioned constantly throughout this very LONG season.

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07-07-2008, 08:38 AM
  #64
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Finger was very pleasant surprise for Avs last year and year before. He was one of the key parts a year before when Avs won 15 of their last 17 games IIRC and he was big part of the team last year, but he had cost us a game against Wild in the PO so he was benched after this... Imo, Leafs just a bit overpaid considering the level Jeff played before but other factors such as age, years in NHL, previous salary make this contract so ... un-normal, not his level play. It's just like to sign 30 years old guy from Europe who never played in NHL for $4 mil.

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Old
07-07-2008, 10:05 AM
  #65
Benji Frank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman View Post
Finger had a wrist injury that kept him out for 6 games.

Regardless, he played 72 games. That's well over half.
If this is in response to the post above you, I was referring to the playoffs where everyone seems to think it's funny that the Leafs signed a guy who was scratched for half of the 12 or so games the Avs played......

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Old
07-07-2008, 11:40 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Daniel Tolensky View Post
I'd say that's a fair assessment. Some people took the commentary a little too seriously or missed the point. It's not about who has more blocked shots per minute or more even-strength goals. And it's not about minutes per game because it's clear that Sauer was playing tougher minutes 5-on-5.

The Leafs went out of their way to say that Finger was Colorado's shut-down defender and clearly he wasn't. It would hard to judge Finger's work against Thornton based on such a small sample (2.9 and 3.3 min per in their final two meetings) and in all of the quotes I used Fletcher/Wilson were clearly emphasizing those performances as justification for the contract.
You're assumptions are all wrong, and you've exaggerated and mixed all the comments Fletcher and Wilson made.

1) Fletcher and Wilson were both absolutely right that Finger became one of Colorado's top dmen in the 2nd half of the year, playing over 22 minutes per game for the entire 2nd half, and ranking #2 on their defense throughout that time. Certainly far more than Sauer did.

2) You've made a huge deal about Fletcher saying "he was their shutdown guy by the end of the year" - an offhand statement which would be silly to interpret as saying "he was the only guy they used in a shutdown role ever" - yet you did interpret it that way. You've somehow convinced yourself that a defense-first defenseman playing 22+ minutes per night, 2nd most on his team, for the 2nd half of the year was somehow rarely used in a shutdown role - you might want to review your assumptions about what data you looked at, and what data you ignored - because you're obviously missing something important.

3) Wilson stated that he was impressed by Finger's play against Thornton, and that Finger was used against Thornton quite a bit by Colorado. You tried to discredit this, but it turns out Wilson was actually RIGHT.

The last game the Sharks played in Colorado - and thus the last time Colorado had the advantage of last change and line matchups - in fully HALF of Finger's shifts he went up against Thornton. Obviously that's plenty of time for Wilson to observe that Finger was indeed being used against Thornton, and to observe how well he was doing in that matchup.

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Old
07-07-2008, 11:49 AM
  #67
danishh
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i've wanted sauer for the past 3 months. Ask anyone on the sens board. I approve the message of this thread wholehartedly, and i think phoenix got the value steal of july in him.

Damn useless BM, concentrating on campbell.

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Old
07-07-2008, 11:59 AM
  #68
Sebastien Centomo
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Originally Posted by Leafsin51 View Post
If someone can provide his Giveaways - Takeaways stat I'd be greatful. It CAN'T be worse than McCabe, can it?
Not even in the same stratosphere.

In 94 games - 32 giveaways/39 takeaways.

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Old
07-07-2008, 12:08 PM
  #69
zeke
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Basically, the only thing Tolensky's stats actually "prove" is the following:

"Over the course of the entire season, exclusively in only 5-on-5 situations, Jeff Finger was not used directly up against Thornton, Iginla, Sedin, and Gaborik more than every other defenseman on Colorado."


That's what Tolensky has proven.

Of course, Fletcher and Wilson never said anything to contradict that in the first place.

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